New Minister for Immigration

[Guest eddie]

Try and look on the bright side for gods sake. The guy hasn't even sat in his new seat yet and you are speculating what might or might not happen. No one knows what he is going to do, he may even be great for us.

THINK POSITIVE !!!!!

 

 

Well said John.

 

Haven't been on PIO much recently, as not much has been happening?, and the "negativity" of some of the posts does start to get me/us down

 

Not having a go at anyone in particular, just "generalising"

 

Chin(s) up everyone

 

Paul & Babs

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi George and Jamie

 

I was told that Andrew Metcalfe will almost certainly be leaving DIAC now that he has completed his 5 year contract with DIAC. My impression was that Metcalfe and Evans are both equally fed up with Immigration and with getting all the flak about the boat people.

 

In theory the CEO of the relevant Department simply carries out his Minister's orders. What I saw in the Civil Service in the UK is that the boss and senior civil servants in the Department are real live incarnations of Sir Humphrey Appleby. They actually decide what the policies are and dream up the weasel words that make their own ideas sound like the Government's ideas. The British ones get hold of their respective Ministers and guide the Ministers' pens so that the Ministers obey the Civil Servants, not the other way around.

 

How important will the new boss of DIAC be in the whole scheme of Immigration, do you reckon, please? Are the Public Servants in Oz as powerful as they are in the UK?

 

Also, when David Wilden told me that he thinks Andrew Metcalfe will definitely be leaving DIAC, I told David that he ought to apply for the job. David laughed but he did not say that it would be impossible for him to apply. Would it be possible for him to apply for the job, please?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Hi all

 

First, Evans and Metcalfe will be handing things to Bowen dressed in their own favour and pointing finger at the last Government, when most of the cock-up was DEEWR for a) not supervising the delegated authorities and allowing rorts to breed and b) not developing a more modern and state sensitive skills list.

 

Second, although it can be wise to listen to former managers intently, some former managers are being moved on, intentEDly, and shouldn't really be listened to.

 

Third, Evans will press for continuity to see things through and keep up the reforms just in case there is another election so that immigration is off media watch.

 

Fourth, Bowen tends to support the underdog.

 

Now IS the hour to impress upon him that a) human beings with families are being ripped off and systemically abused in the thousands b) the pace of change has undermined the industry and increased the appeal of rorting the system, c) Evans was not always right, and d) who cares about clearing the election decks, this mess has to be sorted.

 

So yes, all guns cocked and loaded please, let us NOT let the new guy settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor.

 

Best that Bowen is welcomed to the portfolio with the truth about what it's like trying to migrate to Australia these days.

 

How in any god's name can it be fair to allow and encourage people to apply for visas and incur significant expense and then just return the application without proper compensation???? It can still happen to people applying under the new rules today.

 

Now is the time for all good migrants to come to the RAID of the post election party! :emoticon_doctor_sna

[Guest Tanner]

Hi all

 

First, Evans and Metcalfe will be handing things to Bowen dressed in their own favour and pointing finger at the last Government, when most of the cock-up was DEEWR for a) not supervising the delegated authorities and allowing rorts to breed and b) not developing a more modern and state sensitive skills list.

 

Second, although it can be wise to listen to former managers intently, some former managers are being moved on, intentEDly, and shouldn't really be listened to.

 

Third, Evans will press for continuity to see things through and keep up the reforms just in case there is another election so that immigration is off media watch.

 

Fourth, Bowen tends to support the underdog.

 

Now IS the hour to impress upon him that a) human beings with families are being ripped off and systemically abused in the thousands b) the pace of change has undermined the industry and increased the appeal of rorting the system, c) Evans was not always right, and d) who cares about clearing the election decks, this mess has to be sorted.

 

So yes, all guns cocked and loaded please, let us NOT let the new guy settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor.

 

Best that Bowen is welcomed to the portfolio with the truth about what it's like trying to migrate to Australia these days.

 

How in any god's name can it be fair to allow and encourage people to apply for visas and incur significant expense and then just return the application without proper compensation???? It can still happen to people applying under the new rules today.

 

Now is the time for all good migrants to come to the RAID of the post election party! :emoticon_doctor_sna

I'm sorry Jamie.

 

You constructed scenarios purely from your speculations and decided to act according to these speculative scenarios, not to any factual happenings.

 

Basically you're saying OK, there's a new guy in the office; first, let's go and hold the gun to his head and make sure he does everything MY way, "who cares" what he has to say.

 

How could you presume what exactly he will be thinking or doing? How could you presume he will "settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor". That is so negative, ignorant and a complete lack any respect to the person, who you don't even know.

 

How can you ask him for respect and fairness when you do not give him any respect and fairness?

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi all

 

First, Evans and Metcalfe will be handing things to Bowen dressed in their own favour and pointing finger at the last Government, when most of the cock-up was DEEWR for a) not supervising the delegated authorities and allowing rorts to breed and b) not developing a more modern and state sensitive skills list.

 

Second, although it can be wise to listen to former managers intently, some former managers are being moved on, intentEDly, and shouldn't really be listened to.

 

Third, Evans will press for continuity to see things through and keep up the reforms just in case there is another election so that immigration is off media watch.

 

Fourth, Bowen tends to support the underdog.

 

Now IS the hour to impress upon him that a) human beings with families are being ripped off and systemically abused in the thousands b) the pace of change has undermined the industry and increased the appeal of rorting the system, c) Evans was not always right, and d) who cares about clearing the election decks, this mess has to be sorted.

 

So yes, all guns cocked and loaded please, let us NOT let the new guy settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor.

 

Best that Bowen is welcomed to the portfolio with the truth about what it's like trying to migrate to Australia these days.

 

How in any god's name can it be fair to allow and encourage people to apply for visas and incur significant expense and then just return the application without proper compensation???? It can still happen to people applying under the new rules today.

 

Now is the time for all good migrants to come to the RAID of the post election party! :emoticon_doctor_sna

 

Hi Jamie

 

I agree with everything that you say.

 

I absolutely agree with you that Bowen should be told that a lot of the ideas that he will be invited to inherit and to continue with are ideas that are completely unfair on the volunteers who have been kind enough to offer to go and sort his b^%*&^ country's skills problems out, by going to the ruddy place in person themselves and helping to solve the problems themselves.

 

Evans decided that it is OK for a wannabe migrant to be nothing but an underdog in the mistakes that have been made by the previous Labor Government and the Coalition Government before that.

 

Also, Evans' paltry offers of minimal financial "compensation" are nothing but an entirely cynical, ruthless device to try to trap people via the use of the legal doctrine of Estoppel, Chris Levingston reckons, and that man is one of the sharpest bunnies around when it comes to interpreting the Law accurately and getting it right.

 

I've listened to the spin-doctoring from DIAC in London about the use of this nasty, underhanded little legal trap called Estoppel. The Official Story is that Evans was such a good bloke, with such a kind, fair-minded heart that he thought that it was not reasonable for people's visa applications to be terminated but for the Aussie Government to hang on to 100% of their money. Supposedly the evil public servants told him that it would only be possible to accede to his kind, generous desires to the tune of no more than about 1/3 of the applicants' total outlay, without interest.

 

I listened to this spin-doctoring rubbish thinking, "Nice try, buster, but you will never persuade me to believe a word of this fairy story that you are trying to trot out. I suspect that what you lot want to try to do is to Estop people from complaining to the Courts about this underhanded, deceitful, dishonest, disreputable conduct." I learned recently that Chris Levingston has been saying the same thing.

 

Bowen sure as hell won't hear the truth about any of this unless he hears it from the underdogs who are being treated so monstrously unfairly by the Australian Government.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Jamie Smith]

I'm sorry Jamie.

 

You constructed scenarios purely from your speculations and decided to act according to these speculative scenarios, not to any factual happenings.

 

Basically you're saying OK, there's a new guy in the office; first, let's go and hold the gun to his head and make sure he does everything MY way, "who cares" what he has to say.

 

How could you presume what exactly he will be thinking or doing? How could you presume he will "settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor". That is so negative, ignorant and a complete lack any respect to the person, who you don't even know.

 

How can you ask him for respect and fairness when you do not give him any respect and fairness?

 

 

CHOKE!:cute: Respect and fairness for a politician? I've yet to meet any that are always entitled to it. I keep looking, but they always pew the scrooch, if you like spoonerisms.

 

Anyone who holds office anywhere needs to respect the position they hold and steadfastly act with total diligence and fairness - they are undermined at some stage by the need to toe the party line or by their own personal foibles. Few politicans ever always show total diligence and fairness (name one!).

 

Except for the run up to an election, they seem to lose sight of the fact that they work for taxpayer (my) money, and they need to respect that first before I would even think about changing my opinion.

 

And they also need to respect YOUR contributions and desires as a customer of the Government and future taxpayer, including full refunds if a case dies through Government action, fair treatment etc. Anyone treated unfairly by Government usually returns the favour through non-payment of taxes later...

 

Respect? My opinion might be different if he had been exposed to more risk and difficulties.

 

Bowen has never had to wonder about being paid or laid off, he has always been paid through the monopolistic systems of city councils and governments, which by the way have the power to decide their own incomes regardless of the hardships of the electors. Try that in business and people will think you own a bank. :twitcy:. He has always had a fixed term job, and in a safe seat that usually means for life.

 

Safety of that kind negates the desire to constantly risk making improvements as there is little competition, and it certainly means they need not listen too closely to their electorates -especially with Labor who have the final say on candidates at Head Office. Labor electorates don't get to toss out a representative who successfully plays the power game in Canberra regardless of how poor he or she is in their constituency.

 

I think it's ironic that this new MP got portolfio responsibility for industry competitiveness when he's rarely had to risk and compete in anything himself.

 

That says a lot about the person - risk avoidance and control at all times = an ideal politician. But not good for you and me.

 

They don't trust or repsect business people who have to think on their feet and reinvent themsleves periodically. In the corporate world I left some time ago, risk was encouraged and seat warmers eventually got the heave or the big sideways promotion.

 

I haven't met the chap other than seen him on TV and reading transcripts of interviews and media releases. Risk avoidance and favouring the weak themes come through strongly. That's why he's with Labor. (I have in the opast voted for Labour).

 

Donlt you already know the type well, the type that end up working as bureaucrats somewhere working at the same job and avoiding the risk of failure so they get promoted on seniority rather than competency - vis the union award pay rates?

 

At the moment, I think repect has been lacking for migrants intent on applying, both in what you have to shell out and what you can offer the country.

 

I don't think it's right or fair to leave tens of thousands of people in limbo while a control minded safety seeker with a (taxpayer funded) payrise tries out another chair.

 

I know it's polite to do it your way. I agree with you on that.

 

However politeness will only allow the architects and owners of the mess more time to justify and get away with the crime.

 

At this time, Bowen is the ONLY person who applicants can ask to fix the mess.

 

If he reverses some of Evans' decisions, then he has a chance of earning my respect.

 

Assuming he cares.

[John Gilfillan]

Hi all

 

First, Evans and Metcalfe will be handing things to Bowen dressed in their own favour and pointing finger at the last Government, when most of the cock-up was DEEWR for a) not supervising the delegated authorities and allowing rorts to breed and b) not developing a more modern and state sensitive skills list.

 

Second, although it can be wise to listen to former managers intently, some former managers are being moved on, intentEDly, and shouldn't really be listened to.

 

Third, Evans will press for continuity to see things through and keep up the reforms just in case there is another election so that immigration is off media watch.

 

Fourth, Bowen tends to support the underdog.

 

Now IS the hour to impress upon him that a) human beings with families are being ripped off and systemically abused in the thousands b) the pace of change has undermined the industry and increased the appeal of rorting the system, c) Evans was not always right, and d) who cares about clearing the election decks, this mess has to be sorted.

 

So yes, all guns cocked and loaded please, let us NOT let the new guy settle in to the bad habits and wayward ideas of his predecessor.

 

Best that Bowen is welcomed to the portfolio with the truth about what it's like trying to migrate to Australia these days.

 

How in any god's name can it be fair to allow and encourage people to apply for visas and incur significant expense and then just return the application without proper compensation???? It can still happen to people applying under the new rules today.

 

Now is the time for all good migrants to come to the RAID of the post election party! :emoticon_doctor_sna

 

 

I have heard more sense from a five year old. Its OK for you to harp on about "this is the hour to impress on him", but its not you that will receive the backlash if he gets annoyed with emails and letters from frustrated migrants is it?

Do us all a favour and stop this nonsense you are spouting.

 

If this causes me to get pulled from PIO, I dont care. I personally wouldnt want to be connected to any of this garbage you are telling people to do.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

I have heard more sense from a five year old. Its OK for you to harp on about "this is the hour to impress on him", but its not you that will receive the backlash if he gets annoyed with emails and letters from frustrated migrants is it?

 

 

 

Yes it is. I have two businesses that supply services to the migration industry. As applicant numbers fall and agents go bankrupt, it does affect me and the jobs I can provide for others.

 

Having lived in Oz for 6 years, I can say that politics here is more rough and tumble with much more spin and governmental avoidance of accountability than I was used to from NZ life.

 

With such smoke and mirrors in politics here, the best way forward is to push as hard as you can, to break the spin cycle and ensure that accountability is placed where it belongs. Being polite and waiting patiently means you are easy pickings for others.

 

I don't mind your opinion and I hope you don't get banned, but as a sales person you should know when to press and how hard.

 

Now.

[John Gilfillan]

Yes it is. I have two businesses that supply services to the migration industry. As applicant numbers fall and agents go bankrupt, it does affect me and the jobs I can provide for others.

 

Having lived in Oz for 6 years, I can say that politics here is more rough and tumble with much more spin and governmental avoidance of accountability than I was used to from NZ life.

 

With such smoke and mirrors in politics here, the best way forward is to push as hard as you can, to break the spin cycle and ensure that accountability is placed where it belongs. Being polite and waiting patiently means you are easy pickings for others.

 

I don't mind your opinion and I hope you don't get banned, but as a sales person you should know when to press and how hard.

 

Now.

 

 

I understand about your business and the situation some agents are finding themselves in and by all reports it is desparate for some, but I certainly would not try to rally support at the chance of stirring up a hornets nest at the expense of other people.

As far as your Salesman comment goes, Yes you need to know when to press and how hard, which I do in my very successful sales career, but sometimes you need to listen and shut up!

[Guest MOTO]

Yes it is. I have two businesses that supply services to the migration industry. As applicant numbers fall and agents go bankrupt, it does affect me ...

 

 

 

I know perfectly well that with all these changes in GSM program business has suffered considerably (i have a friend [migration agent] with more than 15 years in the industry) and agents will do anything to get new clients.

 

That is why i try to avoid the middleman as much as i can .

 

They are their to make a quick buck .:wink:

Regards.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi John

 

There is zero chance of your being banned for expressing your opinions on here, hon! That's what forums are for and the fact that we all have differing opinions is the thing that makes the debates so interesting.

 

Jamie Smith is perfectly well-able to look after himself and so am I.

 

As it happens, I agree with Jamie completely. I do think that it is necessary to get hold of Bowen and spell out The Gospel According to the Would-Be Migrant from the mouth of the would-be migrant himself and his own spokespeople (and lady migrants of course, mutatis mutandis.)

 

I think that unless Bowen hears BOTH sides of the story, he will content himself with The Gospel According to the Government only. The Government sure as hell aren't going to tell him all about the ways in which his predecessor Evans has mucked would-be migrants around. As far as the Government's Gospel is concerned, disappointed would-be migrants - possibly including you - are just a bit of irrelevant "collateral damage" which doesn't matter a hoot since you cannot even go to Oz without a visa, never mind have a vote which might lead to the Government being kicked out.

 

A career civil servant such as Bowen is much more likely to prefer the Government's Story instead of preferring the truth, I strongly suspect. Pollies are not interested in hearing any type of truth if they or their party did not invent it themselves, I've always noticed....

 

Everybody can keep quiet, do nothing, and see whether Bowen will save your visa applications. If he fails to do so, what then? Who will kick themselves that they didn't get hold of Bowen and tell him the truth whilst he was still so new in the job that he probably would have been malleable enough to listen?

 

That is the gamble and it is not a gamble that I am a part of, personally, therefore I do not have any vested interest in which way it goes. However, I've yet to meet the Underdog who has remained in any other position as a result of not doing any barking himself.

 

Therefore, personally, I support Jamie's barking to the hilt but I also support - 100% - somebody else's decision to do no barking at all.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest MOTO]

Everybody can keep quiet, do nothing, and see whether Bowen will save your visa applications. If he fails to do so, what then? Who will kick themselves that they didn't get hold of Bowen and tell him the truth whilst he was still so new in the job that he probably would have been malleable enough to listen?

 

Gill

No one said that we have to shut up and do nothing. What i had in mind was to give it couple of weeks and then start doing something. It makes more sense to me that way.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

That might be too late. Things might get written into law if they have only been waiting for a Ministerial signature that was held up as a result of the caretaker provisions these last few weeks.

 

Action, politely but assertively expressed is the way forward.

 

John G as you know sales are all about tactics. Marketing is strategy.

 

The objective is to find way to bring this reality to the mind of the new Minister who favours the plight of the faceless BEFORE further action is taken in continuity of the previous cr*ppy ideas.

 

The strategy is to make a direct personal approach by affected applicants.

 

Tactically, let's be polite and it might work.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

No one said that we have to shut up and do nothing. What i had in mind was to give it couple of weeks and then start doing something. It makes more sense to me that way.

 

Hi MOTO

 

What might change within 14 days, please?

 

Many thanks :notworthy:

 

Gill

[John Gilfillan]

That might be too late. Things might get written into law if they have only been waiting for a Ministerial signature that was held up as a result of the caretaker provisions these last few weeks.

 

Action, politely but assertively expressed is the way forward.

 

John G as you know sales are all about tactics. Marketing is strategy.

 

The objective is to find way to bring this reality to the mind of the new Minister who favours the plight of the faceless BEFORE further action is taken in continuity of the previous cr*ppy ideas.

 

The strategy is to make a direct personal approach by affected applicants.

 

Tactically, let's be polite and it might work.

 

 

The best outcome I see here between the two of us, is for you to do things your way and I will do things my way !

[Guest MOTO]

Hi MOTO

 

What might change within 14 days, please?

 

Many thanks :notworthy:

 

Gill

 

Well, 14 days was just a random number i guess. But from my own life experinces you have to be smart about what you do and how you go about it. I believe that this is one of those situations where you can't rush it but at the same time you most certainly can't leave untill it too late either. It's a delicate balancing act and one must get it right to achieve a desired outcome. I can't give you an exact timespan, but at the same time i personally wouldn't be annoying new guy either the following day he is electeted into the cabinet. Once again, from my own observations, there is a very high chance that doing so will backfire.

 

Hope this makes sense .

[User Name]

I have heard more sense from a five year old. Its OK for you to harp on about "this is the hour to impress on him", but its not you that will receive the backlash if he gets annoyed with emails and letters from frustrated migrants is it?

Do us all a favour and stop this nonsense you are spouting.

 

If this causes me to get pulled from PIO, I dont care. I personally wouldnt want to be connected to any of this garbage you are telling people to do.

 

Sorry but we don't share your sudden optimism. End of the day its the same incompetent Labor we are dealing with same PM before election. So its hard not to be pessimistic.

[Guest MOTO]

Sorry but we don't share your sudden optimism. End of the day its the same incompetent Labor we are dealing with same PM before election. So its hard not to be pessimistic.

 

Hey.

 

It has nothing to do with being optimistic or pessimistic. What we are talking here is the ability of someone to deal with people in a way which can achieve a desired outcome. If you play your cards correctly, you have a very good chance of achieving a successful outcome. It's an art form. You either have it or you don't.

 

PS.

 

I am the most skeptical person that I know of.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hey.

 

It has nothing to do with being optimistic or pessimistic. What we are talking here is the ability of someone to deal with people in a way which can achieve a desired outcome. If you play your cards correctly, you have a very good chance of achieving a successful outcome. It's an art form. You either have it or you don't.

 

PS.

 

I am the most skeptical person that I know of.

 

Hi Moto

 

I assume that you realise that it takes several weeks to mobilise an army so as to send it off to war somewhere. It takes several weeks to do it even though the average army has a ton of thought and logistics machinery that enables it to mobilise itself as quickly as possible once the call to arms is received.

 

Visa applicants are not even an army, let alone a well-organised one.

 

Therefore if it would take the Australian Regiment of XYZ a month to get ready to head for Afghanistan, it is likely to take at least 6 months to persuade people in the Visa Applicants' Army to do anything at all.

 

Will Bowen still be willing to listen to the visa applicants once six months or more has elapsed?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest MOTO]

Hi Moto

 

I assume that you realise that it takes several weeks to mobilise an army so as to send it off to war somewhere. It takes several weeks to do it even though the average army has a ton of thought and logistics machinery that enables it to mobilise itself as quickly as possible once the call to arms is received.

 

Visa applicants are not even an army, let alone a well-organised one.

 

Therefore if it would take the Australian Regiment of XYZ a month to get ready to head for Afghanistan, it is likely to take at least 6 months to persuade people in the Visa Applicants' Army to do anything at all.

 

Will Bowen still be willing to listen to the visa applicants once six months or more has elapsed?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Hi Gill.

 

I get your point and I had thought about it [as well as many other things for that matter] before you posted it. What can I say? Life in itself is very complex matter. We all try to deal with it in best possible ways we can, by minimizing our losses and achieving outcomes that we desire. I wish there was a textbook solution to every problem out there but unfortunately it is not the case [actually I wouldn’t want such textbook to exist, since I love a challenge and life would be too boring otherwise :wink:]. I merely expressed my point of view, something that has work for me personally; time, after time, after time.

 

Like I said, I cannot give you exact timeframe within which one must act. Moreover, I am not the one to dictate anyone as to what they should or shouldn’t do or how they go about it.

Since I don’t want to be told myself what to do either. I can’t stand it. Generally, speaking I make decisions, which I consider to be correct for me, and me only.

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

PS.

 

I had mentioned it in one of my posts here. We are all selfish individauls and I am most certainly not an exception to that.

 

Best regards

MOTO

[John Gilfillan]

Hi Gill.

 

I get your point and I had thought about it [as well as many other things for that matter] before you posted it. What can I say? Life in itself is very complex matter. We all try to deal with it in best possible ways we can, by minimizing our losses and achieving outcomes that we desire. I wish there was a textbook solution to every problem out there but unfortunately it is not the case [actually I wouldn’t want such textbook to exist, since I love a challenge and life would be too boring otherwise :wink:]. I merely expressed my point of view, something that has work for me personally; time, after time, after time.

 

Like I said, I cannot give you exact timeframe within which one must act. Moreover, I am not the one to dictate anyone as to what they should or shouldn’t do or how they go about it.

Since I don’t want to be told myself what to do either. I can’t stand it. Generally, speaking I make decisions, which I consider to be correct for me, and me only.

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

PS.

 

I had mentioned it in one of my posts here. We are all selfish individauls and I am most certainly not an exception to that.

 

Best regards

MOTO

 

Hi Moto,

 

I have just decided to save my breath mate. When you are up against negative people sometimes its better to distance yourself from them or they will drag you down to their level. I will PM you my personal email address as I think I am going to pull the plug on this site.

 

Cheers mate,

 

John

[Guest Jamie Smith]

The best outcome I see here between the two of us, is for you to do things your way and I will do things my way !

 

Not fair! If I'm wrong and we push now and nothing happens except the new boy gets a nice welcome, you can still recover your situation.

 

If you're wrong and we wait when we should have pushed.... :eek:

[lavender776]

Hi Moto,

 

I have just decided to save my breath mate. When you are up against negative people sometimes its better to distance yourself from them or they will drag you down to their level. I will PM you my personal email address as I think I am going to pull the plug on this site.

 

Cheers mate,

 

John

 

This thread is becoming very strange and personal! I don't see anything negative about what people have said, they're just being proactive! It's entirely up to individuals how they choose to act and whether they choose to listen to different advice. Some will wish to be proactive, some will wish to remain silent!

[fivetogo]

Let's just hope for once it is good news for all of us! Cat 3 and cat 4!

 

...and all for those waiting for the SMP-List!!! :cute:

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Not fair! If I'm wrong and we push now and nothing happens except the new boy gets a nice welcome, you can still recover your situation.

 

If you're wrong and we wait when we should have pushed.... :eek:

 

Hi Jamie

 

I continue to agree with your view.

 

Cheers

 

Gill