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Visa Capping - Senate Inquiry


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Guest Gollywobbler
Non-refund of VAC is an issue that REALLY gets up my nose, especially with cases (such as mine) where no CO has been assigned (ie. no actual work on the processing has been done).

 

Can we complain about this?

 

I just did a bit of searching and found that we can:

 

Making a complaint - Commonwealth Ombudsman

 

"Immigration

The Commonwealth Ombudsman can investigate complaints about the Department of Immigration and Citizenship in the same way as any other Australian Government department or agency."

 

Now much of this is aimed at complaints about people kept in detention for years (hey! that's us onshore people right!) but they are also mandated to deal with complaints from regular applicants and users of DIAC services.

 

I'm thinking rather than lots of individual complaints one well-drafted letter with people signing it might be more effective?

 

I'm on hols next week so will have time, but only if there is enough interest.

 

Hi Jeffster

 

I'd suggest giving the Ombudsman's office a ring before you go to a load of trouble.

 

Remember that the Migration Act 1958 is 52 years old now. Although it is continually updated, the present Minister has been muttering that what he really wants is a system whereby people lodge an "Expression of Interest" with Australia, and then the Aussies send for anybody whom they want to attract.

 

The Migration Act 1958 is not suitable for the idea above. If the Minister believes that he can talk the Aussie Parliament into a radical re-think of the entire way that Australia approaches Immigration to Oz then a new, purpose-built Migration Act would be far, far better than fiddling with the current one, in my view. The Minister was born in the same year that the present Act received Royal Assent. That ought to give him the clue that the present Act simply isn't suitable for what he wants, surely?

 

The present Act does not contain any machinery for offering refunds. The reason is because, over the years, the Aussie Parliament has never had to consider the possibility that Australia might be the party that chooses to pull out of the deal where skilled migration is concerned.

 

So you might find that the Ombudsman would tell you to go forth & multiply

 

Julia Gillard put it very well the other day. She said that she wants to ditch the idea that, "Australia Needs Skills" in order to substitute the concept of "The Skills That Australia Needs." She is a MUCH better communicator than her Minister for Immi, I reckon.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest Gollywobbler
You would have to seek advice from the ombudsman as to whether it is possible to launch what is effectively a class action,it may well be possible but there is a chance that they may say that each applicant has to complain individually,best to get correct advice first rather than go to a lot of trouble drafting a joint complaint if the Ombudsman Act doesn't allow them to deal with complaints in that form.

I would send an email to them first:

ombudsman@ombudsman.gov.au

Good luck

Cheers

Nigel

 

Hi Nigel

 

Class actions are only possible in litigation, which is not what the Ombudsman deals with.

 

Class actions are expressly forbidden under the Immi legislation.

 

However if Bloggs wins an action against the Minister and it is clear that thousands of other aggrieved applicants would win identical (virtually) actions, DIAC heads it off at the pass. In that situation, they tend to act as if every aggrieved visa applicant in the relevant group had sued the Minister and had won.

 

That said, I think you are right to urge caution about complaining to the Ombudsman, for the reasons that you and I have offered between us.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Woah! Slow down people!

There is little point in drafting a mass letter, signed by lots of people and sending it to "All@australia.com.au" . There are too many issues, too many individuals, too many stories. It's not feasible and would not result in very much being done.

 

Chipping away at things one piece at a time will be more effective. The letter to the Ombudsman I am proposing is not a class action but solely a complaint aimed at the issue of the VAC. It is something that affects EVERYONE, because we have all paid it, in good faith and in the expectation our visas would be processed within a certain time. Many can find that rule changes, CSL, Categorisation, employer sponsorship offers etc. mean they can apply for a new visa but cannot get a VAC refund. Why should DIAC get to keep this money when they have done NO WORK AT ALL on the application? What about those that simply want to withdraw their application and give up? Why should they lose their money for something that was not their fault?

 

There is an element of racism to the whole issue. There is no way in Hell any Government Department would be allowed to get away with something similar with the Aussie public. What do you think would happen if an Aussie applied for a passsport, paid his $100 then was told things had changed and he had to wait 7 months rather than 7 days but if he wanted to he could apply for another passport but he couldn't get a refund and he would have to pay another $120? It is because DIAC view us as second-class humans, foreigners, with no right to complain and this farcical notion that we are somehow priveleged to be applying to live in such a 'wonderful, lucky, fair-go country' (ROFL)

 

Ideally, the VAC should not be paid until a CO is assigned (so they would request you Meds and PC AND payment at the same time.

 

A victory on this front would give DIAC a kick up the backside and show they cannot treat us like crap. We would be much more likely to have success in this small area than a generalised attack on the whole system and as we chip away in other areas eventually the whole structure might collapse. It's guerilla warfare or mass suicide charge and from my knowledge of historical warfare I know which is the more successful!

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Woah! Slow down people!

 

Chipping away at things one piece at a time will be more effective. The letter to the Ombudsman I am proposing is not a class action but solely a complaint aimed at the issue of the VAC. It is something that affects EVERYONE, because we have all paid it, in good faith and in the expectation our visas would be processed within a certain time. Many can find that rule changes, CSL, Categorisation, employer sponsorship offers etc. mean they can apply for a new visa but cannot get a VAC refund. Why should DIAC get to keep this money when they have done NO WORK AT ALL on the application? What about those that simply want to withdraw their application and give up? Why should they lose their money for something that was not their fault?

 

 

 

very true...... if they did not process our applications...then why do they get to keep our money???:wubclub:

__________________________________________________

CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project OfficerCAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as an ICT Project Officer

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I called the Ombudsman Office, there is no problem submitting an issue about VAC (they have 2 departments - 1 for detention issues and 1 for general). I also asked about making a joint complaint, again they said no problem and that they actually prefer these and that to ensure all complainants have signed to agree permission for one person to represent the others and that they have read the letter of complaint.

 

In other words - It's ON.

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Many thanks Jeffster !!! Let me know if I can help ....

 

 

Thanks, if there are any UK people with spare time, could you find out what happens with our Immigration department? Can you get a fee refund?

 

I know that for Canada you can, check out this deal:

 

"3. Calculate your fees

 

a) The processing fee for you and your dependants

Who will accompany you to Canada must be submitted when you apply. Information on how to pay your processing fee is included in the instruction guide.

If you are not found eligible to apply, we will inform you and refund your processing fee.

b) The Right of Permanent Residence fee

You will only need to pay this fee if your application to immigrate as a skilled worker is approved. It covers you and your accompanying spouse or common-law partner, if applicable. It must be paid before Citizenship and Immigration Canada issues your permanent resident visa. This fee is refundable if you cancel your application or if you do not use your visa.

You will also have to pay fees to third parties for:

 

  • your medical examination

  • a police certificate, if you require one as part of your criminal and security check and

  • your language test. "

(Skilled Workers and Professionals: How to apply)

 

Apart from the fact the fee is about HALF what we pay, you get refunded if you don't get in, refunded if you withdraw, covers you AND partner PLUS you don't pay till you get the Visa approved! Now THAT is how it should be here!

 

Anyways, examples from other countries of their fee charges and refund policies would be invaluable.

 

Cheers.

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Guest jigish
I called the Ombudsman Office, there is no problem submitting an issue about VAC (they have 2 departments - 1 for detention issues and 1 for general). I also asked about making a joint complaint, again they said no problem and that they actually prefer these and that to ensure all complainants have signed to agree permission for one person to represent the others and that they have read the letter of complaint.

 

In other words - It's ON.

Wow, I didn't know that we have to go through this kind of mess, when I lodged my application.

 

I think they should include this in terms and conditions.

- This process is just for fun and we want to see people suffer and see them keep trying and trying to get through, but we assure you, they won't. LOL. Try at your own risk. Now, get in line. Concentration camp is waiting for you. Enjoy.

 

I intentionally put "LOL" in there, because I think this immigration dept is handled not by adults, but irresponsible brats.

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I called the Ombudsman Office, there is no problem submitting an issue about VAC (they have 2 departments - 1 for detention issues and 1 for general). I also asked about making a joint complaint, again they said no problem and that they actually prefer these and that to ensure all complainants have signed to agree permission for one person to represent the others and that they have read the letter of complaint.

 

In other words - It's ON.

Go Jeffster!!!! fantastic!!!:jiggy:

 

 

Can someone have a look t this please

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1131.pdf

 

Any idea???

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Guest Mongobear

Germany is for sure not one of the top migration-countries but I had a look on their regulations though (unchanged since 2005 btw). Here we go:

 

Permanent residence permits (Niederlassungserlaubnis)

A Niederlassungserlaubnis is an unrestricted residence permit for permanent residency in Germany and was introduced in 2005. It can be applied for once certain conditions have been met. In some cases it is granted automatically on arrival in Germany to citizens who are accepted for political reasons or who have specific high qualifications to contribute to the German labour market, but usually it is issued once a person has completed an acknowledged period of residency in Germany.

 

An unrestricted residence permit (Niederlassungserlaubnis) is usually dependent on the following criteria being met:

 

- Minimum of five years' residence permit (Aufenthaltserlaubnis) being held

- Proof that the applicant has been employed for five years and has paid the relevant social insurance-contributions into the German system

- Proof of ongoing financial support

- Proof of suitable accommodation for the applicant and their family

- Sufficient knowledge of the German language

- Basic knowledge of German legal and social systems

- the fee for any visa is 60 Euros (50GBP / 90AU$), for some nationalities it's 35 Euros, children up to a certain age are 30 Euros,

- no word about refunds but who cares at this amount

- processing times vary from days to several months

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A couple of interesting points from the UK.....

 

UK Border Agency Visa Services Home Page

 

I've pasted the link as I'm c**p on computers, but the 2 points of interest are on the FAQ link:

 

How long does it take to get a UK visa? Timelines for applications

 

Can I get a refund? Refund policy.

 

This is a country that has in excess of 70 million people, yet they make the visa process relatively easy. They don't bang on about where you should live and will grant settlement (PR) subject to a few conditions after residing for 5 years!!!

 

I'm wondering why Australia thinks it's so special?????

 

Steph

xxxx

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Guest TheStig

Been thinking about this the last few days.. The only reason why I decided to apply for my PR was that I got a job and working with really nice folks, good friends over my last 6 years here and got some family staying in other states (who basically said how Australia was a great country.. yeah right!) who influenced me to come over for my further education. Of course Howard was running the country then not the bunch or morons now.

 

If their motto is 'Not a BIG Australia, but a sustainable Australia', then why still give out the Baby bonus. Where I come from, baby bonuses are given out as the population is declining and they need a larger population to sustain the growing economy (not a country where many would want to migrate). But Australia has got an abundance of skilled, well educated young professionals who want to start a new life for themselves throwing themselves at their doorstep but chooses to treat them like dirt.

 

Honestly I'm some sort of reaching the point where I'm hoping my PR application would be C&C so I can get out of this $hithole faster! Cabinet of morons made up of migrants hating migrants, who can't make up their freaking mind on governence, make every possible decision wrong. Hell, I don't even like Footy after all these years here!

 

Lewis Hamilton: "Australia is so far of from the rest of the World, it needs to resort to tatics like this for it to be noticed" (when he was caught speeding in AU sometime ago). In a way I rather be somewhere in Europe than on a Kangaroo Island

 

One thing's for sure, If I ever get C&C, I'm NEVER EVER stepping on this Australian soil ever again as long as I live. Not because I didn't get my VISA, but because of the babaric way the Goverment has treat me and many thousands of applicants during this period of time.

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Guest jigish
Been thinking about this the last few days.. The only reason why I decided to apply for my PR was that I got a job and working with really nice folks, good friends over my last 6 years here and got some family staying in other states (who basically said how Australia was a great country.. yeah right!) who influenced my to come over for my further education. Of course Howard was running the country then not the bunch or morons now.

 

If their motto is 'Not a BIG Australia, but a sustainable Australia', then why still give out the Baby bonus. Where I come from, baby bonuses are given out as the population is declining and they need a larger population to sustain the growing economy (not a country where many would want to migrate). But Australia has got an abundance of skilled, well educated young professionals who want to start a new life for themselves throwing themselves at their doorstep but chooses to treat them like dirt.

 

Honestly I'm some sort reaching the point where I' hoping my PR application would be C&C so I can get out of this $hithole faster! Cabinet of morons made up of migrants hating migrants, who can't make up their freaking mind on governence, make every possible decision wrong. Hell, I don't even like Footy after all these years here!

 

Lewis Hamilton: "Australia is so far of from the rest of the World, it needs to resort to tatics like this for it to be noticed" (when he was caught speeding in AU sometime ago). In a way I rather be somewhere in Europe than on a Kangaroo Island

 

One thing's for sure, If I ever get C&C, I'm NEVER EVER stepping on this Australian soil ever again as long as I live. Not because I didn't get my VISA, but because of the babaric way the Goverment has treat me and many thousands of applicants during this period of time.

At last, someone who thinks like me on this forum. :notworthy:

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Guest Gollywobbler
Wow, I didn't know that we have to go through this kind of mess, when I lodged my application.

 

I think they should include this in terms and conditions.

- This process is just for fun and we want to see people suffer and see them keep trying and trying to get through, but we assure you, they won't. LOL. Try at your own risk. Now, get in line. Concentration camp is waiting for you. Enjoy.

 

I intentionally put "LOL" in there, because I think this immigration dept is handled not by adults, but irresponsible brats.

 

Hi Jigish

 

With regard to the Minister and his most senior officials at DIAC, I agree with your assessment of DIAC. The Minister is behaving like an irresponsible brat and he is causing his senior officials to do likewise. The senior officials hide themseves away from the visa applicants, mainly by hiding in Canberra. They leave it to their junior minions to put up with the visa applicants - which is disgraceful but it is the way DIAC works. The junior minions are not told anything in advance - they are simply left to deal with the inevitable fall-out from justifiably angry visa applicants.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest Gollywobbler
Been thinking about this the last few days.. The only reason why I decided to apply for my PR was that I got a job and working with really nice folks, good friends over my last 6 years here and got some family staying in other states (who basically said how Australia was a great country.. yeah right!) who influenced me to come over for my further education. Of course Howard was running the country then not the bunch or morons now.

 

If their motto is 'Not a BIG Australia, but a sustainable Australia', then why still give out the Baby bonus. Where I come from, baby bonuses are given out as the population is declining and they need a larger population to sustain the growing economy (not a country where many would want to migrate). But Australia has got an abundance of skilled, well educated young professionals who want to start a new life for themselves throwing themselves at their doorstep but chooses to treat them like dirt.

 

Honestly I'm some sort reaching the point where I' hoping my PR application would be C&C so I can get out of this $hithole faster! Cabinet of morons made up of migrants hating migrants, who can't make up their freaking mind on governence, make every possible decision wrong. Hell, I don't even like Footy after all these years here!

 

Lewis Hamilton: "Australia is so far of from the rest of the World, it needs to resort to tatics like this for it to be noticed" (when he was caught speeding in AU sometime ago). In a way I rather be somewhere in Europe than on a Kangaroo Island

 

One thing's for sure, If I ever get C&C, I'm NEVER EVER stepping on this Australian soil ever again as long as I live. Not because I didn't get my VISA, but because of the babaric way the Goverment has treat me and many thousands of applicants during this period of time.

 

Hi TheStig

 

I share your sentiments. I'm only eligible for tourist visas for Oz in any case, since I am now 54 and Lawyer is not on their new SOL, plus I'm now too long in the tooth to want to learn about a new system of Law when the Aussie legal system has never been of any great interest to me anyway.

 

However I was born in Malaysia and we lived there till was 20. I have an automatic right to Malaysian Citizenship because I was born in 1956, when Malaya was still a British colony. They gained independence from the UK in 1957, and Independence is called Merdeka in Malay. The automatic right accrues because I was born before Merdeka apparently.

 

KL is not far from Perth, where my mother and sister both live. Rather than traipsing from London to Perth to see them, and being bored in Perth's suburbs whilst I am in Australia, I think it is better for Mum, Elaine and I to meet up in Malaysia from now on.

 

Malaysia deserves my tourist shekel. Every time I go there, local people show how delighted they are that I want to go back there. Some of them are very old friends who I remember from childhood. Others are new friends who become friends whenever I have visted the country over the years.

 

I see no reason to provide any of my own tourist shekals towards boosting the Aussie economy when I could be boosting Malaysia's tourist coffers instead. The Australian Government does not deserve my money and it really doesn't deserve any attention from me either. I put up with the Aussie Government solely because I am a fervent believer in protecting the underdog and the underdog is the visa applicant and his/her family. It is not necessary for me to visit the place in order to protect the group of underdogs who interest me.

 

I have never, ever been treated badly by a single official in Malaysia. Never. I have even turned up in their country without my British passport. It happened when I was a child. My sister and I were travelling as Unaccompanied Minors with Thai International that day, headed from London to KL. We flew from London to Bangkok and then had to wait in Bangkok for the connecting flight to KL. An Airport Aunty from Thai International was assigned to look after us in Bangkok. She took our passports for safekeeping. She then came out to the new plane with us, to hand us over to the plane's cabin crew for the onward flight. She forgot about our passports and so did I until the flight was airborne and we were on our way to KL - minus passports.

 

I realised that there might be a bit of a brouhaha at KL airport, so I explained the situation to a stewardess on the plane. She contacted the Captain of the plane who came to see me, and I explained the problem to him. He said that he would radio ahead to KL airport to warn them that he was carrying two children who were UMs and obviously British but who had no passports. He said that he would sort it out so that Immigration in KL would be expecting us and would know what to do.

 

Immigration in KL were brilliant. I had warned my little sister that they might not be, and I had instructed her that if push came to shove, both of us would sit on the floor in their Passport Control area and we would refuse to budge until they sorted it out. That would show them that I meant business and business did not include being refused entry to Malaysia.

 

The Malaysia guy at Passport Control was a bit bemused. The Captain of the plane had told whoever he had told but the message had not reached the man at Passport Control. Nonetheless, I was obviously telling the truth when I explained that our passports were in Bangkok, that my father was waiting outside at KL to meet us and I felt sure that Dad would be able to arrange for our passports to be sent on to him.

 

It was a bit hairy but the Malaysian officials were not even vaguely accusatory and they did not act like jailers doing overtime at any stage. They realised that a couple of kids were in strife and that it was up to them to sort it out somehow. One of them went off and explained the situation to Dad, who summoned the Airport Manager. The Manager sent Selma, his deputy, to see us. We knew Selma socially anyway and thank goodness she was on duty that day. She took ownership of the problem instead of buck-passing and she sorted everything out.

 

We were given some sort of emergency "special permission" to enter Malaysia for 7 days. There was no need to hold us in any sort of detention. We were only a couple of kids in a spot of bother. We were taken and handed over to Dad, who got our passports from Bangkok and sorted it all out.

 

When a country has been as kind to me as that, I am not about to bite them for their pains. The Malaysian Government deserves my money. The present Aussie Government does not and they would have to improve their conduct dramatically before I will ever forgive them for their current debacle with GSM visa applicants..

 

People have much longer memories than the Aussie Government credits them with. 12 years or so later, I had a torrid experience with a Customs woman at Perth airport - a right bossy little cow, she was. I vowed then that I would leave Australia the following day if I met a single other person who was as dreadful as her and as for living in the place long term myself, forget it. No way was I - or am I - prepared to put up with people like that god-awful little Customs woman. She was a jumped up little jerk and that is exactly the way that the present Aussie Government is behaving as well.

 

So be it. I will vote with my feet and my shekels. I might be eligible for an Investor Retirement visa in Oz when I am 55 (the threshold age.) But that would make me instantly eligible for an MM2H visa for Malaysia as well/iinstead at the same age. I could visit Malaysia for at least 6 months in order to make up my mind and I would not necessarily have to abandon my British Citizenship in order to sort my visa status out with the Malays....

 

The Aussie Government is behaving just as badly now as they did back then, 30 years ago. Sod it. They are the second Aussie official. I have no interest in visiting a country with such a backward regime. I will visit forward-thinking Malaysia instead in future. I don't think that the Aussie Government realises that the rest of us live in a "Global Village" nowadays. I think that the Aussie Minister for Immi is unable to understand that modern life is not a small affair that revolves around his Trades Unions paymasters only. Let him learn the hard way instead, in that case, say I.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

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Guest jigish

Just heard an Indian girl got her PR in 10 days after applying. She's accountant, with 7 bands. Wow, just *uckin' hilarious. Please guys tell me this is a joke.

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Just heard an Indian girl got her PR in 10 days after applying. She's accountant, with 7 bands. Wow, just *uckin' hilarious. Please guys tell me this is a joke.

 

Probably not a joke, I know of a few who got it in 2 - 3 weeks (accountants). None have got accountancy jobs, one is working part-time in KFC, one in a restaurant.

Biggest joke is that it is STILL on the SOL. Maybe it is DIAC who need all the accountants to count all the money we have handed over to them.

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I'd rather have IT grads over accountants anyway. I think their number is higher than cooks/hairdressers. WTF do we need so many anyway? One in every 3 international student I ask does "ACCOUNTING". Bloody joke.

 

Talk about cherry picking applicants that find work and are employable, DIAC or Honourable moron...er Minister Evans couldn't have picked a worst group of people.

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Just heard an Indian girl got her PR in 10 days after applying. She's accountant, with 7 bands. Wow, just *uckin' hilarious. Please guys tell me this is a joke.

 

Onshore? New Grad? Any experience? If she came via ENS that makes sense, otherwise...

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We scream, we cry, we curse but not one of us is showing a way how to fight this.

 

The only thing you can do is complain to the ombudsman (check few post earlier). I don't know how far that'll go.

 

I personally think that Australian's heads gone too far in this assylum seeker issue to the point they are simply ignoring the biggest joke of a immigration system. More people come here via dodgy GSM application than on boat, so they might want to start to pay some attention.

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Guest jigish
Onshore? New Grad? Any experience? If she came via ENS that makes sense, otherwise...

She's new grad with 7 bands and she has also done professional year because she lost 5 points, because of her age.

 

I graduated and applied before her, only difference - she's accountant and I'm IT pro...

 

I think I'm losing my sane mind...

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Thats a prob Mate Please understand!!! They will not access a degree of 2008 graduate under group 1 as you are no longer a graduate and you have used your previous assesment for migration purposes!!!

 

I think i have already posted the link of that document in my previous posts.Please check

 

If you reapply, you are not applying as ICT Recent Graduate in which case the 6 month completion requirement would have made sense, you are applying for ANZSCO by showing work experience like rest of IT migrants do. This is group A not C. This has nothing to do with previous assessment.

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Guest beersheer

Hey guys...

 

Is it a possibility that someone here can draft a very well presented letter/petition that we/everyone can sign and send to relevant authorities...I mean Ombudsman, Minister X, PM, DPM, Immi Sinister, Laurie, and all major TV channels and newspapers......?

 

I think the main problem is that this issue is going very low profile, but if someone can bump up/queue jump this issue, it might show fruitful results. But it needs to be hell of a letter/complaint/petition/request/demand/submission/anything which can really open their eyes wide enough to understand what its like to be an international student and any other offshore applicants who have put their's everything at stake...bla bla...

 

I strongly believe that nothing's impossible except some very few stupid things, and a well drafted letter combined with unity of signatures or whatever can and will make a difference...

 

I dont have what it takes to compile a detailed/well presented/full of facts report/petition, so I request anyone with that calibre to come forward and spend some of his/her precious time in welfare of others....

 

TO EVERYONE, TRUST ME, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE......:idea:

 

We just need to hit the nail with maximum force...:Randy-git:

 

I won't die today...........................:nah:

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Hi, Please check the frequently asked question in regards to new Priority Processing Arrangements .

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/gsm-priority-processing-faqs.pdf

 

Q16 explains "Applicants who lodged before 1 july 2010 that have been nominated by a state or territory government agency in an occupation that is subsequently specified in their nominating state or territory's state migration plan will receive processing under priority group 2" For example, If you have been sponsored by WA government with a nominated occupation Accountant before 1 july 2010, and If WA retains Accountancy in their new state migration plan then that pre 1 july 2010 application will automatically will be processed under category 2 priority.

 

Similarly Q13 explains that if your nominated occupation is in New SOL list then you will be processed under the category 3 priority processing - an accountant example has been provided.

 

I hope this information would be a relief for the applicants who got a pre-july 2010 state sponsorship and would be benefited if their occupation appears again in their relevant state SMP, and they will automatically be transferred/processed under new SMP.

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