Gordon Brown

[Guest shark]

Sh7t ,libs supporters are protesting in London not happy with Gregg obama talking to the conservatives ,they want Gordon

[pablo]

Well i dont think its been such a bad last 10 yrs or so workwise etc,didnt hear that many people whingeing about labour then.

But a world recession comes along,and hits a lot of countries,not just labour led uk,and the fickle uk electorate jump ship.

One bad year or so and their like ships rats jumping overboard,lets see how the man who has never had to tie his own shoelaces handles a crisis eh?:biggrin:

Very marginal recovery at the mo,and we go and vote a hung parliament in,clever eh:biglaugh:

[Guest Andy]

Well i dont think its been such a bad last 10 yrs or so workwise etc,didnt hear that many people whingeing about labour then.

But a world recession comes along,and hits a lot of countries,not just labour led uk,and the fickle uk electorate jump ship.

One bad year or so and their like ships rats jumping overboard,lets see how the man who has never had to tie his own shoelaces handles a crisis eh?:biggrin:

Very marginal recovery at the mo,and we go and vote a hung parliament in,clever eh:biglaugh:

Its not just the economy though is it, its ridiculous to suggest that its just a recession that has caused labours downfall, what about everything else thats gone **** up, or does that not count?

[pablo]

Its not just the economy though is it, its ridiculous to suggest that its just a recession that has caused labours downfall, what about everything else thats gone **** up, or does that not count?

:biglaugh: Ive been waiting for you to turn up! 7 minutes andy,yer let me down!:wink:

I have said many times that i dont agree with everything they've done andy,and that of course they've made mistakes.

BUT do you not think theres a "grain" of truth in what my point is? that as soon as its gone **** up the uk has turned?

Do the former years of this labour gvnmt count for nothing then? only as good as your last game is it?

Dont you think the former years have been pretty decent? workwise etc?

Its not like i have'nt suffered under labour these last 16 months is it?as you know,ive done about 5 months work in that time.

But i honestly DONT think it is all the fault of the labour party,and that is why ive stayed loyal.

Do you really think that with the economy "just about" coming out of recession now was the best time to change gvnmt with the economic recovery so fragile?

And btw,as much as i hate the tories i would say the same if the roles were reversed believe it or not,NOW was not the time for change imo.

Cameron and the rest were born with a platinum spoon in their mouths,they have no interest in you and me.

He is going to bang up taxes the lot,right away,"just" as we are coming out of recession,next yr was the time to do that when were on the road to recovery,not now with the recovery so fragile.

But we'l see,if your right i will hold my hands up,i hope you are right btw,i want the country in rude health,the exchange rate to pick up etc as well as you do,probably moreso after the last yr ive had,i just think it was the wrong time for change,we'l see andy

[Guest Andy]

:biglaugh: Ive been waiting for you to turn up! 7 minutes andy,yer let me down!:wink:

I have said many times that i dont agree with everything they've done andy,and that of course they've made mistakes.

BUT do you not think theres a "grain" of truth in what my point is? that as soon as its gone **** up the uk has turned?

Do the former years of this labour gvnmt count for nothing then? only as good as your last game is it?

Dont you think the former years have been pretty decent? workwise etc?

Its not like i have'nt suffered under labour these last 16 months is it?as you know,ive done about 5 months work in that time.

But i honestly DONT think it is all the fault of the labour party,and that is why ive stayed loyal.

Do you really think that with the economy "just about" coming out of recession now was the best time to change gvnmt with the economic recovery so fragile?

And btw,as much as i hate the tories i would say the same if the roles were reversed believe it or not,NOW was not the time for change imo.

Cameron and the rest were born with a platinum spoon in their mouths,they have no interest in you and me.

He is going to bang up taxes the lot,right away,"just" as we are coming out of recession,next yr was the time to do that when were on the road to recovery,not now with the recovery so fragile.

But we'l see,if your right i will hold my hands up,i hope you are right btw,i want the country in rude health,the exchange rate to pick up etc as well as you do,probably moreso after the last yr ive had,i just think it was the wrong time for change,we'l see andy

It funny pablo, we are both in the same game and are after the right balance with regards to political parties yet we see things from completly different angles, i guess thats what makes us all so interesting!:yes:

[Guest shark]

when the sh7t does it the fan ,strikes here we come .that's if taxes go up ,and the is major cuts this yr it going to but the country back into rescission.

[pablo]

It funny pablo, we are both in the same game and are after the right balance with regards to political parties yet we see things from completly different angles, i guess thats what makes us all so interesting!:yes:

Andy,honestly mucker,im NOT crying "woe is me/us" ,but you had to be in the north,midlands,wales etc in the 80's.

I know that was then and now is now,but i can never forgive the tory gvnmt for what they done,i HOPE they CAN show they've changed.

Like i said,i dont begrudge the south (in general) being wealthier/better off than the rest of us,its natural, simply because london is south.

But if you've ever heard bernard ingham speak of thatchers plans for lpool( a "managed" decline!)you would understand how i feel a bit more.

Theres a reason why the torys pick up WAY more votes down south andy,because "in the past" they looked after their own first.

As you say,that was the past,so im waiting to see if things have changed,ive nothing AT ALL against southerners btw,i just want a level playing field.

I dont want an even bigger north south divide thats all,because it does exist,its not a myth.

You having different opinions to me doesnt bother me in the least,thats what makes the world go round.

I dont try and "convert" anyone,and couldnt even if i wanted to,but put simply i weigh up the two partys this way.

The tories....yes they "will" get the debt down much quicker than labour would,but they dont care one jot for the job losses,the misery that causes,or what the long term consequences of those people thrown on the dole means to the country or communities.

The labour party..."eventually" the debt would be cleared,with less job losses(especially public sector),it would take longer to be tickety boo again,but with less destruction to peoples jobs,lives etc,and i do think the labour party will allways care more for the masses,than the torys who (imo) will allways target the masses first before the rest.

Like i say,just my humble opinion,im no expert,its just the way i see things.

But like i say,i hope its YOU thats right,because they have the power now,so i have to hope that they will do a good job,no point in hoping they dont,just to say "i told you so",we all want the same,a healthy UK, i just HOPE im not proved right about them

[Guest Andy]

Andy,honestly mucker,im NOT crying "woe is me/us" ,but you had to be in the north,midlands,wales etc in the 80's.

I know that was then and now is now,but i can never forgive the tory gvnmt for what they done,i HOPE they CAN show they've changed.

Like i said,i dont begrudge the south (in general) being wealthier/better off than the rest of us,its natural, simply because london is south.

But if you've ever heard bernard ingham speak of thatchers plans for lpool( a "managed" decline!)you would understand how i feel a bit more.

Theres a reason why the torys pick up WAY more votes down south andy,because "in the past" they looked after their own first.

As you say,that was the past,so im waiting to see if things have changed,ive nothing AT ALL against southerners btw,i just want a level playing field.

I dont want an even bigger north south divide thats all,because it does exist,its not a myth.

You having different opinions to me doesnt bother me in the least,thats what makes the world go round.

I dont try and "convert" anyone,and couldnt even if i wanted to,but put simply i weigh up the two partys this way.

The tories....yes they "will" get the debt down much quicker than labour would,but they dont care one jot for the job losses,the misery that causes,or what the long term consequences of those people thrown on the dole means to the country or communities.

The labour party..."eventually" the debt would be cleared,with less job losses(especially public sector),it would take longer to be tickety boo again,but with less destruction to peoples jobs,lives etc,and i do think the labour party will allways care more for the masses,than the torys who (imo) will allways target the masses first before the rest.

Like i say,just my humble opinion,im no expert,its just the way i see things.

But like i say,i hope its YOU thats right,because they have the power now,so i have to hope that they will do a good job,no point in hoping they dont,just to say "i told you so",we all want the same,a healthy UK, i just HOPE im not proved right about them

I also hope you are not proved right about them! I am no expert either Pablo and like you i just want what is best for the country, but i also think it is healthy that guys like us that do the same job and want the same things in life look at politics in a different way, that can only be a good thing!:wubclub:

[pablo]

I also hope you are not proved right about them! I am no expert either Pablo and like you i just want what is best for the country, but i also think it is healthy that guys like us that do the same job and want the same things in life look at politics in a different way, that can only be a good thing!:wubclub:

Amen to that "comrade" pepin:biglaugh::wink:

[Guest shark]

Pablo dont believe ,for one minute that labour would not make job cuts and tax hikes ,they have no choice ,because they would lose the aaa rating on that big loan we have ,and would end up costing us more ,and can anyone believe what Gordon tells us.the man is clueless and biget.i do think tax hikes and job cuts are bad ,and well bring us back into the rescission ,but we have no choice.

 

this is another good reason why that d should go,talk about mad.and i bet the cheap staff they get will be eastern europeans

Axing immigration staff 'could see Dover overrun' | Mail Online

[Happy Lass]

Who would want him? :arghh:

Ooh I don't know. I think Robert Mugabwe would probably welcome Mandy with open arms.

 

Well i dont think its been such a bad last 10 yrs or so workwise etc,didnt hear that many people whingeing about labour then.

But a world recession comes along,and hits a lot of countries,not just labour led uk,and the fickle uk electorate jump ship.

One bad year or so and their like ships rats jumping overboard,lets see how the man who has never had to tie his own shoelaces handles a crisis eh?:biggrin:

Very marginal recovery at the mo,and we go and vote a hung parliament in,clever eh:biglaugh:

That's a good point Pabs as its easy to forget what life is like for people in different industries. I am genuinely glad that it hasn't been bad for everyone.

 

It's been a bad ten years-ish for me work-wise to the point where regular redundancy was a fact of life and job stability was gone for good. Take-home pay grew less and what used to be disposable income had to go to cover the cost of the rising cost of living.

 

As someone who is part of a family who cared for two elderly grandparents consecutively, one of whom is disabled and now (out of medical necessity) in a nursing home, I became aware of just how much harder it was to afford the basic things like heating and how what little help there is for Carers. Help that dwindled in both quality and quantity over the years that Labour were in power. Naturally some councils were better at managing things than others but ours seemed to be particularly rubbish at this.

 

I'm not someone who is easily given to anger so at best I can only say that I am particularly frustrated with Labour and will be much cheered to see them go. In fact I would happily tune in to watch it as it happens just to be sure that they really are gone.

[pablo]

Pablo dont believe ,for one minute that labour would not make job cuts and tax hikes ,they have no choice ,because they would lose the aaa rating on that big loan we have ,and would end up costing us more ,and can anyone believe what Gordon tells us.the man is clueless and biget.i do think tax hikes and job cuts are bad ,and well bring us back into the rescission ,but we have no choice.

 

this is another good reason why that d should go,talk about mad.and i bet the cheap staff they get will be eastern europeans

Axing immigration staff 'could see Dover overrun' | Mail Online

I agree sharky,whoever was/is in power would have to make cuts,no problem with that.

I just dont think NOW is the time to do it,and thats what the tories are going to do.

I think we should wait till were out of the mire a bit more thats all,+thats what labour proposed to do.

As i say mate,time will tell whats right

[Guest guest37336]

This is not aimed at Gordon Brown in particular, far from it. It can be used to describe the vast majority of politicians over the past thirty years or so. We all know that MP's are referred to as 'Honorable' gentlemen/women when they are sitting in parliament, or for that matter outside as well. I have nicked this from dictionary.com, but I reckon it sums up just what is happening today/yesterday, and in the future with our politicians

 

1. worthy of being honored; entitled to honor and respect; "an honorable man"; "led an honorable life"; "honorable service to his country" [syn: honorable] [ant: dishonorable] NOT

2. adhering to ethical and moral principles; "it seems ethical and right"; "followed the only honorable course of action" [syn: ethical] NOT

 

Need I say more.

 

Cheers Tony

[pablo]

Ooh I don't know. I think Robert Mugabwe would probably welcome Mandy with open arms.

 

 

That's a good point Pabs as its easy to forget what life is like for people in different industries. I am genuinely glad that it hasn't been bad for everyone.

 

It's been a bad ten years-ish for me work-wise to the point where regular redundancy was a fact of life and job stability was gone for good. Take-home pay grew less and what used to be disposable income had to go to cover the cost of the rising cost of living.

 

As someone who is part of a family who cared for two elderly grandparents consecutively, one of whom is disabled and now (out of medical necessity) in a nursing home, I became aware of just how much harder it was to afford the basic things like heating and how what little help there is for Carers. Help that dwindled in both quality and quantity over the years that Labour were in power. Naturally some councils were better at managing things than others but ours seemed to be particularly rubbish at this.

 

I'm not someone who is easily given to anger so at best I can only say that I am particularly frustrated with Labour and will be much cheered to see them go. In fact I would happily tune in to watch it as it happens just to be sure that they really are gone.

Hiya happy

Well im assuming your talking about when you were in the uk mate?

I cant comment on the situation when you were caring for your grandparents obviously.

But i can only say i can understand how you feel if that was the case for you,fair do's.

BUT,ive gotta say,when me mam was dying,when it got really bad towards the end etc,we had 2 nurses a day come round twice to administer the morphine,one pair of carers to change her etc,and one doctor a day visited.

Obviously this was only the last few weeks,not the months before when she was "alrite".

And altho i respect your views happy,i honestly cant see the tories putting more into healthcare/the NHS than the labour party,it was the tories who mooted everyone going private not long ago wasnt it? tax breaks etc yes,but to me it was a backdoor way of getting us used to the american way of healthcare,plant the seed,let it grow?

I know labour proposes giving every cancer sufferer care at home,with their own nurse,and as much as i try,i just cant imagine the tories doing the same thing happy.

As i said earlier,im not trying to convert anyone,their just my beliefs mate:hug:

[Guest shark]

I agree sharky,whoever was/is in power would have to make cuts,no problem with that.

I just dont think NOW is the time to do it,and thats what the tories are going to do.

I think we should wait till were out of the mire a bit more thats all,+thats what labour proposed to do.

As i say mate,time will tell whats right

if i was in labour shoes,i would get rid of brown and a few of is side kicks ,because that's what the majority of people voted for. and let the troies into no10 and let them do the cutting &taxing ,because when it does happen ,the people in this country will hang them ,because the is going to be thousands of people losing the jobs and homes.and believe me the will be not to many people spending , so it will affect us all.labour will be back in power next time around .

[pablo]

if i was in labour shoes,i would get rid of brown and a few of is side kicks ,because that's what the majority of people voted for. and let the troies into no10 and let them do the cutting &taxing ,because when it does happen ,the people in this country will hang them ,because the is going to be thousands of people losing the jobs and homes.and believe me the will be not to many people spending , so it will affect us all.labour will be back in power next time around .

Thing is tho sharky that the tories have now got the excuse of "were sorting out labours mess,its not our fault".

Ive gotta be honest,i was having slight doubts about going to oz,but the result of the election has given me 5/10% more incentive to go mate

[Guest shark]

what makes me laugh at Cameron,he keeps tell us that he wants to but Britain interest first.he is going to make billions in cuts yet he is increasing over seas aid

[Guest chris955]

Gregg Obama ?

 

Sh7t ,libs supporters are protesting in London not happy with Gregg obama talking to the conservatives ,they want Gordon

[Guest shark]

Thing is tho sharky that the tories have now got the excuse of "were sorting out labours mess,its not our fault".

Ive gotta be honest,i was having slight doubts about going to oz,but the result of the election has given me 5/10% more incentive to go mate

you are not the only one ,nothing is going right for us this yr.:wink:and god knows what the state of Britain will be this time next yr

[Guest shark]

that's what they are calling him the new obama,saying that he comes across very blair like ,and Cameron does as well.

[Guest chris955]

I don't believe in god but judging by your very detailed predictions in this thread about what is going to happen in the next 6 or 12 months I thought maybe it was you :wink:

 

god knows what the state of Britain will be this time next yr

[Guest shark]

well the torries have said they are going to make billions in cut for this yr ,oh and tax hikes , so you do no what it is going to be like ,we are looking at very hard times ahead.and than the is next yr ,more cuts .see where we are heading .that's if nick agrees to cuts.

[Happy Lass]

Hiya happy

Well im assuming your talking about when you were in the uk mate?

I cant comment on the situation when you were caring for your grandparents obviously.

But i can only say i can understand how you feel if that was the case for you,fair do's.

BUT,ive gotta say,when me mam was dying,when it got really bad towards the end etc,we had 2 nurses a day come round twice to administer the morphine,one pair of carers to change her etc,and one doctor a day visited.

Obviously this was only the last few weeks,not the months before when she was "alrite".

And altho i respect your views happy,i honestly cant see the tories putting more into healthcare/the NHS than the labour party,it was the tories who mooted everyone going private not long ago wasnt it? tax breaks etc yes,but to me it was a backdoor way of getting us used to the american way of healthcare,plant the seed,let it grow?

I know labour proposes giving every cancer sufferer care at home,with their own nurse,and as much as i try,i just cant imagine the tories doing the same thing happy.

As i said earlier,im not trying to convert anyone,their just my beliefs mate:hug:

Aye, I was talking about my life as it was in the UK.

:hug: I lost my Dad to asbestos-related lung cancer just over three years ago now and had similarly good help for Dad. Everyone from our GP to the paramedics, to the nurses, Doctors and Consultants at the hospital, were brilliant. For that matter so were the phone company, Telewest, who sent an engineer out to us that Christmas when our phone failed because we needed it urgently for Dad. I'll never forget the kindness we received.

 

Sadly, my elderly, disabled Grandmother, was still living with us at the time (dementia had set in by then and her physical health had worsened) and we did not get the help we needed for her whilst doing our very best for Dad. Dad's health took a critical turn just before the end and had to go into hospital where he died. We all wanted Dad to be at home and as the eldest daughter I was acutely concerned as to how best to look after the needs of my Grandmother as my Dad was dying. Perhaps we would have had more help if Dad had had more time but he had only weeks.

 

Before Mum retired altogether (just before Blair was elected actually) she worked as a nurse and then in home care where she cared for people of all ages in all kinds of situations so she found it particularly hard to understand why there was almost nothing available to help her with her practically with her own Mum. What help we had came from family, our GP and from the church community that my Grandmother is a part of.

 

Politically, Dad always looked at each party objectively and voted according to who was the best as he saw it at the time. Mum was always a Labour voter but changed her allegiance to the Liberal Democrats after Tony Blair got into no. 10.

 

I wish you and your family all the love and strength you need to get through the coming months and years, {{{{{{{{{{{{{Pabs}}}}}}}}}}}

[pablo]

Aye, I was talking about my life as it was in the UK.

:hug: I lost my Dad to asbestos-related lung cancer just over three years ago now and had similarly good help for Dad. Everyone from our GP to the paramedics, to the nurses, Doctors and Consultants at the hospital, were brilliant. For that matter so were the phone company, Telewest, who sent an engineer out to us that Christmas when our phone failed because we needed it urgently for Dad. I'll never forget the kindness we received.

 

Sadly, my elderly, disabled Grandmother, was still living with us at the time (dementia had set in by then and her physical health had worsened) and we did not get the help we needed for her whilst doing our very best for Dad. Dad's health took a critical turn just before the end and had to go into hospital where he died. We all wanted Dad to be at home and as the eldest daughter I was acutely concerned as to how best to look after the needs of my Grandmother as my Dad was dying. Perhaps we would have had more help if Dad had had more time but he had only weeks.

 

Before Mum retired altogether (just before Blair was elected actually) she worked as a nurse and then in home care where she cared for people of all ages in all kinds of situations so she found it particularly hard to understand why there was almost nothing available to help her with her practically with her own Mum. What help we had came from family, our GP and from the church community that my Grandmother is a part of.

 

Politically, Dad always looked at each party objectively and voted according to who was the best as he saw it at the time. Mum was always a Labour voter but changed her allegiance to the Liberal Democrats after Tony Blair got into no. 10.

 

I wish you and your family all the love and strength you need to get through the coming months and years, {{{{{{{{{{{{{Pabs}}}}}}}}}}}

Thx very much happy,same to you mate,all the best for the future,.even if the past wasnt,take it easy mate:hug: