merlino Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I've already had 6 pms and emails from various sources with news to that effect. We need a few hundred... Care to post them here? Even if it's some automated reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 No Govt replies yet merlino, just people saying they'll send the letter in, like this one: Dear Mr. Smith Thank you very much for the protest letter you have prepared. I am one of those applicants adversely affected by new priority list and I have been on a Bridging visa A since 23/01/08 (almost 21 month ago). I will make another complaint by using the contents you have prepared. I also know many others in a similar situation and will forward your letter to them. Thank you. Kind regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Kazzarazza, Stop generalising Wanderer. There are many applicants also ready to move right now. No house to sell (not everybody owns a house overseas you know) and due to the REAL GFC (the one that the average Australian has been spared and really have no clue about) some people have no job either. Been unemployed for 12 months or more and renting or living with rellies/friends etc. They can get jobs in Australia but can't get ENS/RSMS sponsorship to hurry it along. There are more jobs advertised in one weeks Advertiser than some areas of the UK have had in 3 months. And, YES, many are re-advertised because the local labour is not there. Many of these applicants also have somewhere to come to and some one to live with here. This whole thread is supposed to be about the ridiculous, incompetent, knee-jerk changes and the massive effect it is having on prospective migrants. Just for once, why don't you try and put yourself in their shoes. They have paid a lot of hard-earned money on the expectation that they would receive a visa within a certain time frame - as quoted AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION. Kazza You have taken that quote out of a total lengthy answer to what Gill had posted. Sure there are jobs advertised in Australia and we also have people looking for work in case you didn't know. And is There are more jobs advertised in one weeks Advertiser than some areas of the UK have had in 3 months. And, YES, many are re-advertised because the local labour is not there. also not generalising. This whole thread is supposed to be about the ridiculous, incompetent, knee-jerk changes That's how some people do describe it as, no doubt about it and how would you have managed the whole situation Kazza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 merlino/jamie The kind of governemnt response you may get could be something like: Autoresponse Feedback successfully sent Thank you for your feedback which has been sent to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. The Reference Number for this feedback is: IMMI - xxxxxxxx You will receive an acknowledgement email in the near future. And then later Thank you for your suggestion that was received on 16 October 2009, I apologise for the delay in responding to you. Your Feedback Case Number is IMMI-xxxxxxx. Please quote this number in any further enquiries relating to this matter. Your suggestions have been referred to the relevant business areas for information. Please be aware of DIAC's Privacy Policy in relation to responding to enquiries. See Privacy Yours sincerely But you could well get referred back to announcements on www.immi.gov.au and http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/faq-priority-processing.pdf in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzarazza Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Kazzarazza, You have taken that quote out of a total lengthy answer to what Gill had posted. Sure there are jobs advertised in Australia and we also have people looking for work in case you didn't know. And is also not generalising. That's how some people do describe it as, no doubt about it and how would you have managed the whole situation Kazza? Yes, I have taken one quote but it has been the tone of many of your posts. People on here, and this thread in particular, want help and encouragment. The job situation is not a generalisation. My daughter has been looking at jobs daily, both in Adelaide and her area of the UK, and it is exactly as quoted. What would I have done differently - the only HONOURABLE thing to do. Make changes from that date forward and not effect the applications already on file. They should be processed as per the rules and expectations at the time of application. After all, that is when they pay their fee. You tell me of any other process, or supplier, who takes payment in full, in advance, and then changes the product before supply - and doesn't even offer a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stillwaiting79 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 You tell me of any other process, or supplier, who takes payment in full, in advance, and then changes the product before supply - and doesn't even offer a refund. i agree 200% ..daylight robbery and it sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glenn Pereira Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Senate Hearing Interesting statements on GSM, Students, 457 etc http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S12494.pdf Regards Glenn Pereira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 merlino/jamieThe kind of governemnt response you may get could be something like: Autoresponse And then later But you could well get referred back to announcements on www.immi.gov.au and http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/faq-priority-processing.pdf in particular. Yes I'm expecting that Wanderer (Case officer number 101) . It's typical civil service obfuscation and deflection. All it will do is buy them time. They will then be asked to answer the question and not by me. I've been at media offices today circulating my info and people's comments from here with journalists, so we may soon see how long the legs are on this particualr war horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Yes, I have taken one quote but it has been the tone of many of your posts. People on here, and this thread in particular, want help and encouragment. The job situation is not a generalisation. My daughter has been looking at jobs daily, both in Adelaide and her area of the UK, and it is exactly as quoted. What would I have done differently - the only HONOURABLE thing to do. Make changes from that date forward and not effect the applications already on file. They should be processed as per the rules and expecations at the time of application. After all, that is when they pay their fee. You tell me of any other process, or supplier, who takes payment in full, in advance, and then changes the product before supply - and doesn't even offer a refund. By tone, Kazza, I'll assume you mean me consistently referring to the economic circumstances and they being a basis of government decision making. I do empathise with the people caught up in the current economic mess of the planet but is it help and encouragement to . not portray reality? . to incite emotional feelings? There are a number of threads that are doing both very well, but I would see them as being of no real service to applicants but perhaps you feel that continually stirring their disappointment is good. And in deciding the GFC was going to cause a considerable rise in unemployment, it would be honourable to keep the few hundred thousand applicants in the pipeline coming on to no work and limited social security benefits? Immigration have certaintly said that visas will be processed according to a priority system and even before the GFC, you'll find no guarantee of how long it can take to process a visa. Sure there are targets but you will also find quite a few references on www.immi.gov.au as to times being indicative, how conditions can change etc. So until an applicant is told your visa is never to be looked at, getting a refund is a questionable issue. Just as the government had little if any warning of the GFC or extent of it why would people start making massive relocation arrangements for something that was so indefinite. A person having a visa application in is not a guarantee that one would be issued and never was even if some people have been so close to final consideration and I empathise with those people the most. If they have started making arrangements to move before actually having the appropriate visa approved, it can be that which may be causing more stress than just deciding to wait. But this continual vibe of lets kick the minister etc. is a tone that does no one much good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 By tone, Kazza, I'll assume you mean me consistently referring to the economic circumstances and they being a basis of government decision making.I do empathise with the people caught up in the current economic mess of the planet but is it help and encouragement to . not portray reality? . to incite emotional feelings? There are a number of threads that are doing both very well, but I would see them as being of no real service to applicants but perhaps you feel that continually stirring their disappointment is good. And in deciding the GFC was going to cause a considerable rise in unemployment, it would be honourable to keep the few hundred thousand applicants in the pipeline coming on to no work and limited social security benefits? Immigration have certaintly said that visas will be processed according to a priority system and even before the GFC, you'll find no guarantee of how long it can take to process a visa. Sure there are targets but you will also find quite a few references on www.immi.gov.au as to times being indicative, how conditions can change etc. So until an applicant is told your visa is never to be looked at, getting a refund is a questionable issue. Just as the government had little if any warning of the GFC or extent of it why would people start making massive relocation arrangements for something that was so indefinite. A person having a visa application in is not a guarantee that one would be issued and never was even if some people have been so close to final consideration and I empathise with those people the most. If they have started making arrangements to move before actually having the appropriate visa approved, it can be that which may be causing more stress than just deciding to wait. But this continual vibe of lets kick the minister etc. is a tone that does no one much good. Cr*ppy decision making needs to be recognised and affected people need to be given a fair go. Wanderer you portray yourself as a Queenslander, the home of Aussie culture, you must understand the notion of "a fair go"? You also misunderstand the industry, it IS a highly emotional one full of dreams and ambitions bound up in an at times illogical and irrational but unemotional process. Nevertheless it is administered and controlled by human beings. Being a quiet and modest visa applicant does no good either, it just provides free fodder for the faceless fumblers to flounder about and decide your future fate (alliteration anyone?). Are we trying to rev things up? yes we are. Should we apologise for making a fuss? Not today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlino Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 i agree 200% ..daylight robbery and it sucks A tyrant... or terrorist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheHollies Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 A tyrant... or terrorist? amongst other words :twitcy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Jamie, Jamie, Cr*ppy decision making needs to be recognised and affected people need to be given a fair go. Wanderer you portray yourself as a Queenslander, the home of Aussie culture, you must understand the notion of "a fair go"? You also misunderstand the industry, it IS a highly emotional one full of dreams and ambitions bound up in an at times illogical and irrational but unemotional process. Nevertheless it is administered and controlled by human beings. Being a quiet and modest visa applicant does no good either, it just provides free fodder for the faceless fumblers to flounder about and decide your future fate (alliteration anyone?). Are we trying to rev things up? yes we are. Should we apologise for making a fuss? Not today. __________________ Regards, Jamie Smith You call it cr**py, whilst I would say something else and as for portraying myself as a Queenslander, it was someone else who announced that publicly but I have an immigrant descendant background and first and foremost, having lived in a few different states I consider myself to be an Australian above all else and I feel Australians all over hope for a reasonable and fair go and by and large most people are honest and fair in their dealings. There are also a lot of unscrupulous miscreants out there outside of government circles and whilst in Australia it is probably a lot like other countries with a law for the rich and one for the poor, or putting it another way the rich can always pay for wriggling out from under I do not think your faceless fumblers as you put it really consider anyone as cannon fodder. Quite to the contrary, I'd reckon they do not like to take tough decisions but to their credit they do and if they had continued to do nought, they would have been negligent of their responsibility not just to Australia/Australians but prospective immigrants too for how fraudulent would it have been to be encouraging people to spend a lot lot more than what fees are to fly halfway around the planet and find not what they had led to believe was there. Why do you tell me what I misunderstand anything when you know nought of my background nor involvement with people very close to me who have immigrated and also many who are immigrating and relate to me the ups and downs of waiting on visas. Of course there are dreams and we all have them one way or another but even with our own, we're stupid not to take a personal reality check every so often. Some people are happy with your revving and if that makes them feel any better so be it but there could also be applicants of the quieter style that may consider it is better to appreciate the reality of the situation, to hear both sides in a sense. I make no apology for offering what perspective I do nor have I expected you to make any apology for the tack you [or the we] are taking. Good luck to whoever does what in achieving whatever they do as long as it remains legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freaks Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Good luck to whoever does what in achieving whatever they do as long as it remains legal. Hi Wanderer, I am not sure why you would presume that, any potential migrant would carry out any sort of illegal action, putting there long term goals at risk? I accept your stance, but please try to understand us, I for example have sold my home earlier this year as I was concerned the property prices in the UK would fall further. I now live in rental accommodation with my family, I am a plumber and the amount of work available to me is currently vastly reduced, forcing me to take on warehouse work also it is looking like we will have to move home again to reduce our rent and avoid spending what's left of our equity from the sale of our home. I'm sure you can imagine how this effects my wife and children. I have been offered employment in Australia put I'm unable to secure ENS. So am I mistaken but surely we should fight before our lives get worse as we have no clear future here in the UK, and we were under the illusion the time scales given us by DIAC were true? On one last point, ASPC told me on the 22/09/09 my application would be reviewed/finalized within 2 weeks! Freaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin JIANG Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Good luck to whoever does what in achieving whatever they do as long as it remains legal. Hi Wanderer, I am not sure why you would presume that, any potential migrant would carry out any sort of illegal action, putting there long term goals at risk? I accept your stance, but please try to understand us, I for example have sold my home earlier this year as I was concerned the property prices in the UK would fall further. I now live in rental accommodation with my family, I am a plumber and the amount of work available to me is currently vastly reduced, forcing me to take on warehouse work also it is looking like we will have to move home again to reduce our rent and avoid spending what's left of our equity from the sale of our home. I'm sure you can imagine how this effects my wife and children. I have been offered employment in Australia put I'm unable to secure ENS. So am I mistaken but surely we should fight before our lives get worse as we have no clear future here in the UK, and we were under the illusion the time scales given us by DIAC were true? On one last point, ASPC told me on the 22/09/09 my application would be reviewed/finalized within 2 weeks! Freaks Dear Freaks, Wish you good luck soon! And i really understand your personal difficulties as currently it is. You've mentioned that ASPC told you on the 22 Sep 09 that your application would be reviewed/finalized within 2 weeks. Was it a pre-grant letter or any letter/email indicating the potential finalization of your case within 2 weeks? The reason why i ask this is that yesterday, Jamie Smith (RMA) posted the notes by the ASPC manager regarding the exceptional circumstances for applicantions to be exempted from the changes on 23 Sep 2009 during the MIA meeting on 10 Oct 2009. However, I am not sure whether it's only a recommendation of minor processing priority policy change for the benefits of some of the affected applicants, or a definite solution which would be undertaken by ASPC soon, probably around early Nov 2009 as stated by ASPC processing auto responded email. May be Jamie Smith would know more about this or maynot. Please read the below: Quoted from Jamie Smith's post: Processing Priorities -Highest priority GSM applicants are being allocated within 3-10 working days and it is expected this service standard will apply to all CSL applicants by January 2010 -Currently looking at CSL lodged in Feb 2009 -485 cases should be allocated within 3-10 days if CSL, PhD or Masters/Honours year after bachelors or 2-3 months if not CSL -For paper lodged applications, DIAC systems don’t record PhD or Masters/Honours year after bachelors, so agents may wish to bring these cases to the attention of ASPC/BSPC -There are some exceptions to the processing priorities: o$100k bond cases oMRT remits oSubclass 476/883/887 oSubsequent entrants for 485 or regional sponsored oWhere a pre-visa grant advice was issued prior to 23 September oWhere the 2nd VAC has been requested & paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO,DIZZY Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I cant remember ever seeing any timescales anywere on the diac web sit in regards to processing times untill theses recent changes were introduced, most processing times are provided by agents and this information is passed on through these web sites, they are only ever estimates so anyone who has applyed these timescales in relation to there own application has missled themselves.. It is unfortunate for those who are caught in the middle of the recent processing changes and who are at the very end of there journey ie got co meds and pc's requested and finalised there should be some contingency put in place for them.. DIAC do highlight that these changes can and do happen on the DIAC web site it is something you are asked to consider when submitting your application.. and in light of the recent economical meltown it was always in my mind a real possibility there would be changes.. It was a big concern for me when I applied for our visa what would happen should any changes take place with DIAC in regards to there processing procedures if it should effect me negatively would I be prepared to wait without any hope of a refund??.. the answer ultimatly was yes.. , its very unfortunate but there it is... stop looking for heads to roll and start taking some personal responsibility. dizz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Off to the Sun Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Jamie thanks for taking the time to write up that letter, I'm amending (bitching it up) it a little for my situation and I'm sending it to any email address I can get my hands on, oooh I love a good letter campaign, this will give me something to do rather than being annoyed. Thanks PIO's for the free anger management :hug: I have one question though, I just found out from my agent that I didn't have a CO in Jan and they off their own backs asked us to get meds and pc's done - do I have any come back from them? They are a reputable agent by all accounts but they've cost me a fortune, can I do anything? Also SO.DIZZY - have you been affected by these changes? You seem a bit heartless tbh. When we applied in Aug 08 the time scale on the DIAC website for a 175 Modl was 12 - 18 mths. Granted it said estimated but it looked to a "normal" person that 18 mths was worst case, that was why we applied THEN and those were the conditions we accepted when we PAID, why shouldn't we get what we paid for if we are eligible????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzarazza Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I cant remember ever seeing any timescales anywere on the diac web sit in regards to processing times untill theses recent changes were introduced, most processing times are provided by agents and this information is passed on through these web sites, they are only ever estimates so anyone who has applyed these timescales in relation to there own application has missled themselves.. It's on the DIAC website, for every type of GSM visa. It's also on the final page when you do an online application (ie. without an agent). You can't honestly believe that agents make up their own dates - they follow the DIAC guidelines. :nah: Client Service Charter This was only updated, by the way, after 23rd Sept. For the whole of the past 18 months, it still said 7 months for ALL 475 applications from a low-risk country. Kazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO,DIZZY Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Also SO.DIZZY - have you been affected by these changes? You seem a bit heartless tbh. When we applied in Aug 08 the time scale on the DIAC website for a 175 Modl was 12 - 18 mths. Granted it said estimated but it looked to a "normal" person that 18 mths was worst case, that was why we applied THEN and those were the conditions we accepted when we PAID, why shouldn't we get what we paid for if we are eligible????? I do not want to appear heartless, i do empythise with anyone who is stuck in this dilema these changes are very disruptive and difficult. but again im sure you are aware that im highlighting the fact that Diac make all applicants aware that changes can happen without any warning not just to processing times but to the demand for the applicants skills and to what catagories that would then render him in or out of, and it is something that you are asked to consider when applying and certainly before you go and sell your house etc.. I have said that there should be some respite for applicants who are almost to the point of being granted a visa.. these changes are not sudden they have been comming for a while in dribbs and drabbs, many applicants were aware as far back as the end of last year there were changes taking place and for many that was actually a bonus they were catipulted because certain occupations were on the csl and therfor prioritised, many trades etc were on it at that time and we thought this was great becuase we were on it... then more changes to csl again, which effected us as we were then off it and then the changes in march with the stop on 175 visa processing many people were effected by these changes.. I do however have my visa as we were lucky enough to have state sponsership before it became a requirement for priority processing we had to apply for it because we are over forty it took us 4 months to get ss, before we could even apply for a visa we have only missed these changes by 2 months.. I do understand how infuriating this might be but the bottom line is changes are something that DIAC asks you to take in to consideration when applying.. i would however be looking at your agent for some compensation in regards to your pc's and meds regards dizz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 stop looking for heads to roll and start taking some personal responsibility.Personal responsibility for what? These changes have been introduced unilaterally,and retrospectively by the minister,with no notice,what do you suggest people take "responsibility" for? Believing that when they lodged an application for a visa that it would be processed according to the rules that were in place on the date of application and not those introduced afterwards? Paying thousands of dollars to a foreign government in return for them considering an application for a visa only to be told at the last minute"sorry we are putting you on the back burner,possibly until 2012?Also lets not forget that we are not talking about people who have returned their house keys to the bank and toddled off to Australia without a job to go,we are talking people whose lives have being put on hold here,some people were very close to visa grant under the old processng priority and now may have to wait till 2012 for a visa,how is that fair ? and how do you propose those people 'take personal responsibility" for something that they have no control over. The real problem here is not the changes per se,economic circumstances can have an effect on how a government runs its migration program,and I haven't seen anyone who has said that the government shouldn't have control of the program,most people have accepted that some changes were probably inevitable,but it's the retrospectivity that really causes distress. The only person who needs to take responsibility for this is the minister himself. BTW these changes were indeed sudden-they were introduced on 23 September,I don't know of anyone who knew anything about them prior to that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SO,DIZZY Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's on the DIAC website, for every type of GSM visa. It's also on the final page when you do an online application (ie. without an agent).You can't honestly believe that agents make up their own dates - they follow the DIAC guidelines. :nah: Client Service Charter This was only updated, by the way, after 23rd Sept. For the whole of the past 18 months, it still said 7 months for ALL 475 applications from a low-risk country. Kazza I am not implying agents make up dates but instead get information through there dealings in general with diac in relation to there clients applications, these timescales are generally the rule of thumb most people use... but it does seem in the case of the post above that some agents do make up bogus co's however.. and at no point in the visa process was i ever given a personal timescale in relation to my application.. im sure you are also aware that these timescales are published only as a guide and that you are advised that these time frames should not be regarded as concise and that changes to these can and do occur without notice.. and im sure most people can asume that in the current economic climate this could be a real possibility... also it was away back in march that they anounced that the 175 visa processing was being suspended indefinetly... regards dizz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartertucker Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Im sorry if this sounds a little dumb!.....:goofy:.....But what does this mean please? '$100k bond cases'.......:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzarazza Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 and at no point in the visa process was i ever given a personal timescale in relation to my application.. ... also it was away back in march that they anounced that the 175 visa processing was being suspended indefinetly... regards dizz.. It's all there on the site when enquiring and applying. Just because you choose not to read it doesn't mean it is not there. We are all aware of the changes made in March - there were also changes made in January but none of these were updated on the DIAC website. They were still informing people of 7 months for a Provisional visa and 12 months for a Permanent visa. I even rang the DIAC office here in Adelaide (ASPC) and was told the same - they assured me they were working to the same service standard. The incompetance of some of these people in Immigration is staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartertucker Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I cant remember ever seeing any timescales anywere on the diac web sit in regards to processing times untill theses recent changes were introduced, most processing times are provided by agents and this information is passed on through these web sites, they are only ever estimates so anyone who has applyed these timescales in relation to there own application has missled themselves.. It is unfortunate for those who are caught in the middle of the recent processing changes and who are at the very end of there journey ie got co meds and pc's requested and finalised there should be some contingency put in place for them.. DIAC do highlight that these changes can and do happen on the DIAC web site it is something you are asked to consider when submitting your application.. and in light of the recent economical meltown it was always in my mind a real possibility there would be changes.. It was a big concern for me when I applied for our visa what would happen should any changes take place with DIAC in regards to there processing procedures if it should effect me negatively would I be prepared to wait without any hope of a refund??.. the answer ultimatly was yes.. , its very unfortunate but there it is... stop looking for heads to roll and start taking some personal responsibility. dizz.. So what about those that have older teenagers, should we have mayby not applied for our visas at all.... Just in case!......:frown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S12494.pdf Hi All The proof copy of Hansard can be accessed via the link above. This Committee meets again in February. Yesterday's meeting was not very good. It was poorly managed by an inexperienced Chair who didn't stick to the Agenda and keep it moving at a sensible pace. It was obvious, too, that none of the Senators tasked with scrutinising DIAC's activities had been briefed about the new Ministerial Direction of 23rd September 2009 and the havoc that it has caused. Nevertheless, I have high hopes for the next meeting in February because next time around those Senators will have been briefed properly - by me! Senator Fierravanti-Wells got a lot of flak from us yesterday - unfairly. She would perform very well with me pulling her strings. I am looking for visa applicants with rellies in the Wollongong area of NSW, please. Please sing out if you have rellies in that area who are willing to do what they can to help you to get to Oz before 2013. Parliament of Australia:Senate:Senators:Senator*Concetta*Fierravanti-Wells Senator Trood is another one that I want to target. He is focussed, punchy and he was the cause of DIAC's Head of Legal getting a thick ear not long before midnight. A thick ear which she richly deserves and she deserves another one for the 23rd September fiasco. Parliament of Australia:Senate:Senators:Senator*Russell*Trood Does anyone who is affected have rellies in the Brisbane area, please? Both Senator Trood and Senator Fierravanti-Wells are Liberals - the Loyal Opposition, in other words. The Liberals amongst the Senators are the ones who will give the Minister some flak if we provide the Senators with the ammunition. Many thanks Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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