Guest fatpom Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Ok, I know what I meant! What I meant was I dont need every ounce of my salary just to get by anymore. I dont have to work to live. Confused??? I am!!!! :smile: The saying "work to live not live to work" means (I think?) you should only 'work in order to be able to live' and not 'live purely to be able to work' (ie not be a workaholic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fatpom Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 i agree with what treesa has said here, a year ago or so a solid plasterer could earn up to 35 to 40 dollars an hour and these jobs where easy to find, now you are looking at around 25-28 dollars an hour, so there has been an impact somwhere along the line, with more people appying for the jobs greedy bosses can reduce the wages knowing people will still take the jobs having no choice. There's an upside and a downside to earning really good dollars (which the construction trades have enjoyed for some time). The upside is being called a "cashed up Bogan". However, the down side is the effect on demand. If costs go up demand drops and projects can't get off the ground. Put simply revenue is lower than costs and you are better off leaving your money in the bank (or some other investment). It doesn't take much to send a venture from profit to loss. Bosses aren't always greedy its often more a case of struggling with increasing costs and constant competition driving down revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 There's an upside and a downside to earning really good dollars (which the construction trades have enjoyed for some time). The upside is being called a "cashed up Bogan". However, the down side is the effect on demand. If costs go up demand drops and projects can't get off the ground. Put simply revenue is lower than costs and you are better off leaving your money in the bank (or some other investment).It doesn't take much to send a venture from profit to loss. Bosses aren't always greedy its often more a case of struggling with increasing costs and constant competition driving down revenue. I agree with you in principle, but when it comes to housing, costs are going up but demand hasn't dropped. The demand for affordable housing in both Australia and the UK is intense. Propping up the banks is all well and good, but its about time both governments started backing/financing builders to build good quality housing at a price average wage earners can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 but its about time both governments started backing/financing builders to build good quality housing at a price average wage earners can afford. One question,treesea, and that is why? Why should taxpayers subsidise builders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 One question,treesea, and that is why?Why should taxpayers subsidise builders? Isn't it the opposite of a subsidy, restricting the builders profits on social housing and making more on the sale of crown land than would otherwise be the case? Say a builder could build a home for $150K, would normally spend $100K on the land, so total costs $250K, which he would then sell off at $350K. As I understand social housing, the government still provides the (crown) land, but says to the builder we want the same $150K house, but you can only charge $170K for it. The government then add the price of the land, say $120K, and sell the house for $290K. The taxpayer should be happy, because they make more money on the land than they otherwise would have. Instead of selling it off en masse to the builder for $100K a plot, they sell it directly to the buyer for $120K a plot. Plus they have enabled more people to realise the dream of home ownership than would otherwise have been able to afford to. The builder is happy - he's only making $20K per house, but at least they are selling and he hasn't had to carry the capital cost of the land. This isn't a subsidy. It makes commercial sense for both parties. And even more so for the government/taxpayer, because there's a social welfare opportunity cost to having builders out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Sydney Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 treesea nice idea but I am afraid over time it fails. Take NSW as an example Land Com (NSW Government owned) was set up to provide cheap land to the masses. Because the government could do it cheaper Except the costs have skyrocketed because Land comm is helping the NSW Government restrict the Land available for Suburbs thus earning more money per block for the government who are always short of cash. By restricting the amount of land for sale means they don't have to build roads railways schools etc etc and an add bonus is they can claim to be Green for doing nothing. Now I will admit the NSW Government is a basket case, they are too thick to realize if we don't have roads suburbs etc the total cost of doing bussiness in NSW goes thro the roof - which is whats happened and instead of being one of the powerhouses of Australia NSW is slowing badly long before the F.C. came along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 treesea nice idea but I am afraid over time it fails. Take NSW as an example Land Com (NSW Government owned) was set up to provide cheap land to the masses. Because the government could do it cheaper Except the costs have skyrocketed because Land comm is helping the NSW Government restrict the Land available for Suburbs thus earning more money per block for the government who are always short of cash. By restricting the amount of land for sale means they don't have to build roads railways schools etc etc and an add bonus is they can claim to be Green for doing nothing. Now I will admit the NSW Government is a basket case, they are too thick to realize if we don't have roads suburbs etc the total cost of doing bussiness in NSW goes thro the roof - which is whats happened and instead of being one of the powerhouses of Australia NSW is slowing badly long before the F.C. came along I was really only proposing this as a few one off developments, to take the builders through the recession and at the same time provide social (i.e. priced so people can actually afford it) housing. I certainly agree it is short sighted to do the opposite and hike the price of the land to unaffordable levels or restrict supply, because all that will happen is people will jump ship and go an live in a state where they can afford to live. You make an interesting point about infrastructure. Near to us (inner city Edinburgh) is a development of 206 2 and 3 bedroom apartments. The site got cleared but then it so far hasn't proceeded. In theory all the planning permissions are in place but the developer lacks local support for the loan guarantees the bank now wants from the government. Part of the reason is because the local schools are full, both primary and secondary, and the local government doesn't want to go to the considerable expense of buying adjoining land and housing so that it can expand the schools to match them with the new capacity required. Gordon Brown goes to great lengths to tell us about his support and plans for social housing up and down Britain, but I notice not one brown field site has so far been released to facilitate these "plans". A commitment to housing per se, but none to provide the infrastructure to support that housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life on easy street Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I agree with you in principle, but when it comes to housing, costs are going up but demand hasn't dropped. The demand for affordable housing in both Australia and the UK is intense. Propping up the banks is all well and good, but its about time both governments started backing/financing builders to build good quality housing at a price average wage earners can afford. I have worked in manufacturing for over 25 year’s and there have been no bailouts for the companies I worked for So what is so special about the building industry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I have worked in manufacturing for over 25 year’s and there have been no bailouts for the companies I worked for So what is so special about the building industry? Most manufacturing in highly developed western economies is doomed in the long run, because most of the items being manufactured can be produced cheaper and more efficiently elsewhere. Clothing is a good example. Unless you are making something of very good quality and highly fashionable - e.g. Ugg boots, some tailored suits, couture - the "throw away" brigade (headed up by China) are likely to outperform local manuafacturers. Housing, on the other hand, is like farming or the utilities. For a start, what could be more essential, after water and food, than shelter? Australia's population, like the UK's (in spite of the rate at which we Brits are jumping ship) is growing at a clip. Surely any government wants to support jobs that can never go offshore? Building is like farming, - it can be done within the country on the available land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nick22 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi Me an my wife have bn here 4a month an still no work, I'm just keeping up beat about things becauseive always had to look for my own work being self employed at home, there's no way we are going home I'll sell slushes on the beach if I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donovan Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well done Phil & Jo what a great and honest thread, just goes to show if you want something badly enough no matter how much or how little you have got then with determination you will make it work. Gives hope to a lot of people out there Sarah x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi Me an my wife have bn here 4a month an still no work, I'm just keeping up beat about things because ive always had to look for my own work being self employed at home, there's no way we are going home I'll sell slushes on the beach if I have to. Not sure where you are based, but if you could work in Melbourne, how about contacting Grocon? They are a construction company but have just been awarded the contract for the site clean up for the bushfire devastated areas in Victoria. If you are interstate they may be employing people from interstate, because some Tasmanian forest contractors are on the clean up program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiedreamz Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't know if I am classed as one of the doom and gloomers? If so then let me explain myself on behalf of many of the other doom and gloom merchants. All I and other members are trying to say is that people especially those who work in construction need to have true perspective of what life is like right now in Australia especially the Brisbane area. If I was a migrant moving to Australia and worked in an industry that has been effected by the global downturn then I would want to know about it before I spent tens of thousands of pounds moving to a country that might not offer me any hope of long term employment. I don't believe people are painting a picture of doom and gloom they are just preparing future migrants to the facts of here and now, after all we are living the here and now and have a right to share this information with others. Some people will be lucky enough to arrive and land on their feet straight away. Good on them! But some like myself, kazzmatt, chippy2 etc...have been trying for months to get our foot in the door and if we do it's a week here or a day there or like me for the last two months sod all. We have done the networking, visited the building sites, made the phone calls, joined the agencies and all we are getting is the same response, there is nothing available right now or it's slow at the moment. So to all future migrants especially in the construction industry whether your a plumber, sparks, painter, chippie or spread. Australia did have good employment prospects a year ago but that was then and this has now changed significantly with the downturn, there are now too many tradies chasing too fewer jobs and I like other posters on this site believe you should be made aware of this. Now to the people who are about to mock my post and class me and others as a doom and gloom merchant you are entitled to your opinions and if you are settled with good jobs and lifestyle then that's great and I respect you for that. But think about the people like us who are having to go through this nightmare every waking day ringing companies and the like. I have never been out of work in all my 20 years in the building business. Many of us are already down on our luck and we don't need people knocking us down further by labelling us as doom merchants. It is easy for you to say this hidden behind a computer screen but if the shoe was on the other foot and you were living this reality then would you say it then, I don't think so. We are not charity cases and we are not looking for sympathy at the end of the day all we want is work, be it stacking shelves, pulling pints or labouring, I would honestly do anything but if it isn't there how can I ??? That's my two penneths worth and now I will let you all argue amongst yourselves. I'm off fishing now to hopefully catch tonight's dinner....if I don't catch anything then the family will be eating dust again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bowbrum03 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't know if I am classed as one of the doom and gloomers? If so then let me explain myself on behalf of many of the other doom and gloom merchants. All I and other members are trying to say is that people especially those who work in construction need to have true perspective of what life is like right now in Australia especially the Brisbane area. If I was a migrant moving to Australia and worked in an industry that has been effected by the global downturn then I would want to know about it before I spent tens of thousands of pounds moving to a country that might not offer me any hope of long term employment. I don't believe people are painting a picture of doom and gloom they are just preparing future migrants to the facts of here and now, after all we are living the here and now and have a right to share this information with others. Some people will be lucky enough to arrive and land on their feet straight away. Good on them! But some like myself, kazzmatt, chippy2 etc...have been trying for months to get our foot in the door and if we do it's a week here or a day there or like me for the last two months sod all. We have done the networking, visited the building sites, made the phone calls, joined the agencies and all we are getting is the same response, there is nothing available right now or it's slow at the moment. So to all future migrants especially in the construction industry whether your a plumber, sparks, painter, chippie or spread. Australia did have good employment prospects a year ago but that was then and this has now changed significantly with the downturn, there are now too many tradies chasing too fewer jobs and I like other posters on this site believe you should be made aware of this. Now to the people who are about to mock my post and class me and others as a doom and gloom merchant you are entitled to your opinions and if you are settled with good jobs and lifestyle then that's great and I respect you for that. But think about the people like us who are having to go through this nightmare every waking day ringing companies and the like. I have never been out of work in all my 20 years in the building business. Many of us are already down on our luck and we don't need people knocking us down further by labelling us as doom merchants. It is easy for you to say this hidden behind a computer screen but if the shoe was on the other foot and you were living this reality then would you say it then, I don't think so. We are not charity cases and we are not looking for sympathy at the end of the day all we want is work, be it stacking shelves, pulling pints or labouring, I would honestly do anything but if it isn't there how can I ??? That's my two penneths worth and now I will let you all argue amongst yourselves. I'm off fishing now to hopefully catch tonight's dinner....if I don't catch anything then the family will be eating dust again... Hi, That’s what I have been saying for months, But you get jumped on by certain people for been too negative……..nice post. I had a phone call with an agency on Monday, asking about a job that was advertised for a contract manager’s job. Any way he said that job had been taken, but let slip the name of the company. So I phoned the company asking if they had any vacancies, I was put though to the MD, only too be told they had no work and they have NOT advertised for anyone.. Just about sums up what I have known all along, agencies make jobs up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I dont think anyone can really argue aussiedreamz ,you tell it how it is and this is what people need to hear. It annoys members when people say 'theres no work, dont come'' as this is a major generalisation, suburb to suburb it varies not to mention state to state. I have recently relocated a painter and his family (in this last month), he had a choice of job offers and opted for one thats only a few minutes drive from here as this is where they wanted to stay for 12 months or so. Kazmatt is another family who unfortunately are returning to the UK for various reasons, work being one of them, but in their time here Matt has had over 10 jobs, so there is work out there for some trades. Brickies, electricians and carpenters are the hardest hit at the moment around here, mechanics, painters, plumbers etc still seem to be plodding along ok for now. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Some more bad news I'm afraid-From: Construction decline intensifies: survey Conditions in the construction industry have worsened as weak demand and a lack of confidence crimps building activity, a survey says. The Australian Industry Group-Housing Industry Association performance of construction index (PCI) fell 4.6 index points in February to 29.5 points. The February result was the lowest reading since the survey began in September 2005, eclipsing the previous record of 30.9 points reached in December last year. Moreover, the index has remained below the key 50 level for the past 12 months. Ai Group associate director of economics and research Tony Pensabene said the "relentless pressures" of tight credit conditions and low market confidence continued to stifle demand for building projects. "This was evident in the ongoing deterioration in activity across all major construction sectors, as firms faced intensifying competition for contracts and a further narrowing of business opportunities," Mr Pensabene said in a statement. Commercial construction activity contracted for the 10th time in the past 12 months, with the sub-index dipping 9.6 index points to a new survey low of 22.2 points. Also, activity in apartment building has shrunk for the past 13 months. The report said the principle issues facing the industry were a lack of funding availability, delays in planned building works, and a reluctance by clients to commit to new projects. But there is some good news as well: The one bright spot in the survey was in house building, where the rate of decline in new orders eased for a third straight month. "It would appear that lower interest rates and increases to the first home owners grant underpinned a third straight month of abatement in the rate of decline in new orders," the report said. HIA chief executive Harley Dale said there were some tentative signs that the drop in demand for housing was easing. However, Mr Dale said there was "clearly a need for an increase in trade-up buyer and investor activity before an aggregate new home building recovery will emerge". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kazmatt Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 cal is correct, i had a lot of jobs when i first came over as i was finding it difficult to settle into a new trade, as the main aspects of my trade are not done here, i struggled a lot, getting jobs where no one would speak to me, some where i was called the pommie on a regular basis. Because there was so much work at the time i wanted to try and find the perfect job that i would be happy doing, and eventually i settled into skim coat rendering, pretty simple really, not what i did in the u.k. though, but unfortunetely i got laid of by text message a few weeks ago, and tried to find more work, but was unsuccessful and we are going home in two weeks time, my feelings are that there is in no way the amount of work that there used to be, but if you have some money behind you and are able to support yourself for a while, and willing to do anything, labouring, gardening e.t.c then maybe its worth chasing after your dreams, for us though it is not meant to be, i enjoyed my work in the u.k. and worked for myself something i cant do here, so our dream is over, good luck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I dont think anyone can really argue aussiedreamz ,you tell it how it is and this is what people need to hear. It annoys members when people say 'theres no work, dont come'' as this is a major generalisation, suburb to suburb it varies not to mention state to state. I have recently relocated a painter and his family (in this last month), he had a choice of job offers and opted for one thats only a few minutes drive from here as this is where they wanted to stay for 12 months or so. Kazmatt is another family who unfortunately are returning to the UK for various reasons, work being one of them, but in their time here Matt has had over 10 jobs, so there is work out there for some trades. Brickies, electricians and carpenters are the hardest hit at the moment around here, mechanics, painters, plumbers etc still seem to be plodding along ok for now.Cal x Cal I quite agree. We have Brickies down here that are offered 4 or 5 jobs within a week of touching down on Ozzie soil. However, we have another family where she is a pharmacist and she cannot get work anywhere and her husband also cannot get work in the printing industry. As for IT there are so many Brits in Melbourne with IT experience so thats another occupation where you may struggle finding work. I think if you are coming over, you do need to have money behind you or a sponsor and I think you need to be willing to turn your hand to anything should the need arise. Kate:wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bowbrum03 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 unfortunetely i got laid of by text message a few weeks ago, and tried to find more work, but was unsuccessful and we are going home in two weeks time, my feelings are that there is in no way the amount of work that there used to be, but if you have some money behind you and are able to support yourself for a while, and willing to do anything, labouring, gardening e.t.c then maybe its worth chasing after your dreams, for us though it is not meant to be, i enjoyed my work in the u.k. and worked for myself something i cant do here, so our dream is over, good luck to all. Hi Kaz, I fell for you. I see so many tradies looking for work every minute of the day. There are thousands leaving Perth, Not that they don’t like the place but solely because they can find work, and there money has ran out. Yes you could have walked into any job 12 months ago, the slide started around August 08 You only see a few posts on here, where you see people are struggling, can you imagine the amount of people who are out there looking. Best of luck too you …… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bowbrum03 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 CalI quite agree. We have Brickies down here that are offered 4 or 5 jobs within a week of touching down on Ozzie soil. However, we have another family where she is a pharmacist and she cannot get work anywhere and her husband also cannot get work in the printing industry. As for IT there are so many Brits in Melbourne with IT experience so thats another occupation where you may struggle finding work. I think if you are coming over, you do need to have money behind you or a sponsor and I think you need to be willing to turn your hand to anything should the need arise. Kate:wub: Hi Kate, Yes Melbourne dose seem to be the only place that has work for construction at the moment. I know lots are moving over their, seems too be the in place. 8 friends that have found work and are leaving next week…. Thx for letting me know There only concern is that they work outside, and with the winter coming fear the rain. I would personally not advise a sponsor, unless you are a nurse. I have seen many lose there jobs and have been left in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wiggly Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 While I agree that people need to know what is going on, i do get down hearted on here lately as there are a lot of posts that are negative and NOT written in a constructive manner. We ourselves we flying high a few months ago, however life in Britain has become difficult for our family, we have both recently been made redundant, my OH is in construction (residential) (finding a job in his role is like finding a needle in a haystack at the moment, my company is offshoring roles to cheaper countries. Both of us come from industries that were "secure" a short while back but it seems keeping things on an even keel is hard atm. Now we are well aware the right now it may be difficult to find work where we wish to live, we want to move to QLD but thanks to the upbeat posts on here would consider living somewhere like Melbourne at first, then move. Why give up our whole dream now just because things may well be difficult, they are bloody worse here for us lol, who says once we get our visas we have to go straight away ? We may sit it out for a year here, im sure the economy will pick up faster in Oz than it will under the government here, at least they have kept a reign on things in a better manner over there. The recession is worldwide, but that is not going to stop us from wanting to follow our dream, from our families view, things are mega tough here, i am not afraid to move and do ANY job. Who cares if we cant live the lifestyle we had hoped for at first, at least I know that it could happen, unlike here. Anyway thats our personal POV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 This is really just a matter of being practical. If you go on a work visa, with no secure job to go to, then make sure you take enough money for two years, i.e. until you can apply for PR. Better still, only go if you go on a PR visa. That way if you do run out of money, you have access to some benefits (Family Benefit, part A and B, rent assistance) from the day you arrive in Australia, i.e. no two year stand down. treesea, you have contributed some great posts to this thread and I agree with you entirely about the social housing issue but on this one I tend to disagree. If you go on a work visa by definition you have a job to go to - whether it's secure is perhaps a different issue but at the moment I would say it is far more favourable than arriving on the skilled migrant visa without a job - we certainly feel so! Also it is not correct to say you have to wait for two years to apply for PR, some employers will sponsor you much sooner and we've been here 4 months and our application went in yesterday (Independent Skilled) - our agent thinks we're likely to have a CO by end of May. I will I admit be happier once I have the PR but I'm not altogether sure you're right on the benefits. My view is in the good times a 457 visa is restrictive whereas inn the bad it's a godsend. I will qualify that in saying only with a reputable employer! Jules x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Any employer will ditch you in the recession , if its between you and an aussie no , the backlash would be very extreme , the employer would be frightened about the adverse publicity and criticism they would get , my employer went to a seminar(pi**up) and the talk was about sponsored employment and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fruitcakechic Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry guys another negative thread on it's way.....I have been here since january 09 and would go back tomorrow, the only thing oz has going for it is the sunshine, and i'm over that already. I have comitted career suicide coming here, I'm a psychiatric nurse, but we wont go into that. I find the australians extremely rude, not very bright and 20 yrs behind the rest of the world! They have no sense of humour and the majority i have met are lazy.Also their education system stinks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cadski Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry guys another negative thread on it's way.....I have been here since january 09 and would go back tomorrow, the only thing oz has going for it is the sunshine, and i'm over that already. I have comitted career suicide coming here, I'm a psychiatric nurse, but we wont go into that. I find the australians extremely rude, not very bright and 20 yrs behind the rest of the world! They have no sense of humour and the majority i have met are lazy.Also their education system stinks....... that does sound just doom and gloom keep your moaning to yourself . positive negative attitude can be helpful, if work is drying up people need to be informed, but this quote is just boring and no wonder the aussies dont speak to you get yourself home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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