Having a wobble 🙁🙁🙁

[Guest]

Payments with only two '0's on the end are actually not too bad compared to the rest!

[DevilsAdvocate]

With all due respect. You’ve been here 5 minutes. It’s totally normal to feel that way. Atleast you secured a job. My family came here 9 years ago without pre employment the first 6 months were hard. But I’d rather give it a good go, then return to the UK with my tail between my legs. 

[Marisawright]

32 minutes ago, DevilsAdvocate said:

. But I’d rather give it a good go, then return to the UK with my tail between my legs. 

I think that's the wrong attitude.  We've had members who've stayed in Australia for years even though they hated it, all because they were too embarrassed (or too proud) to go home "with their tail between their legs". 

If you try something and don't like it, it doesn't mean you've failed.  It means you tried it and realised it's not for you.  No shame in that.  

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, DevilsAdvocate said:

With all due respect. You’ve been here 5 minutes. It’s totally normal to feel that way. Atleast you secured a job. My family came here 9 years ago without pre employment the first 6 months were hard. But I’d rather give it a good go, then return to the UK with my tail between my legs. 

It depends. I'd say yes if OP came out alone or perhaps in a couple. They may well give it a little more time, but delaying too long may not be of much benefit. One (other partner) may be less inclined to leave and further down the road the kids. Some are not made to live so far away from the familiar. But as mentioned, a bit longer should not hurt.  

[DevilsAdvocate]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I think that's the wrong attitude.  We've had members who've stayed in Australia for years even though they hated it, all because they were too embarrassed (or too proud) to go home "with their tail between their legs". 

If you try something and don't like it, it doesn't mean you've failed.  It means you tried it and realised it's not for you.  No shame in that.  

After a few months of being here. I would be embarrassed. That was my point. Hardly “Giving it a go” Also wrong attitude? I just don’t sugarcoat it like the rest of you. 

[Cobs_Ahoy]

I can see where you’re coming from @DevilsAdvocate and agree with giving it a try, but we will need to make a decision that balances ‘giving it a shot’ and the well-being of our family as a whole. I guess it’s this balance that will determine how long is long enough.

 

For me, I would set it at a year - long enough to feel a bit more competent in navigating social and systemic idiosyncrasies+ long enough that we can say  we got a real sense of whether we would ever feel at home, balanced against returning to the U.K. without it causing significant distress to the kids. A year also given enough time to address things that are causing issues (eg I work/rentals etc). 

 

However, that’s only my personal way of approaching things. My husband is struggling more than me, and he has said a year feels like a lifetime. My marriage and our family unit is more important than making this work, so I’m not going to enforce any arbitrary timescales.

 

I have found that things have improved for me since I started this thread, but the home sickness is still there. I no longer have the desperate panicky feeling and think I would genuinely enjoy being here for a few years while I see how things go.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

4 minutes ago, Cobs_Ahoy said:

I can see where you’re coming from @DevilsAdvocate and agree with giving it a try, but we will need to make a decision that balances ‘giving it a shot’ and the well-being of our family as a whole. I guess it’s this balance that will determine how long is long enough.

 

For me, I would set it at a year - long enough to feel a bit more competent in navigating social and systemic idiosyncrasies+ long enough that we can say  we got a real sense of whether we would ever feel at home, balanced against returning to the U.K. without it causing significant distress to the kids. A year also given enough time to address things that are causing issues (eg I work/rentals etc). 

 

However, that’s only my personal way of approaching things. My husband is struggling more than me, and he has said a year feels like a lifetime. My marriage and our family unit is more important than making this work, so I’m not going to enforce any arbitrary timescales.

 

I have found that things have improved for me since I started this thread, but the home sickness is still there. I no longer have the desperate panicky feeling and think I would genuinely enjoy being here for a few years while I see how things go.

 

100% a year, even two before you feel settled. What your feeling is completely normal. My wife didn’t want to leave the UK for Australia and felt very home sick. 9 years later and it’s like she’s a different person. She doesn’t even want to visit the UK. My initial post, which may of came across as blunt was to wait and give it time. I wasn't being pretentious.  

[Quoll]

On 29/12/2022 at 08:23, DevilsAdvocate said:

100% a year, even two before you feel settled. What your feeling is completely normal. My wife didn’t want to leave the UK for Australia and felt very home sick. 9 years later and it’s like she’s a different person. She doesn’t even want to visit the UK. My initial post, which may of came across as blunt was to wait and give it time. I wasn't being pretentious.  

Alternatively, it could be said that banging your head against the brick wall to make the headache go away is also not a great idea.  I dont think it takes that long to know whether you belong or not.  I hesitate to use the word "settled" because that implies you are never going to move and I hate that feeling.  I have been here a long time and in the beginning it was fine, no homesick, no yearning to return because I always knew that it was possible to move on and I had great holidays back with my folk.  However once it became obvious that I was stuck here then it became really unpleasant - I dont belong and never have, despite having been here for more than half my life.  My head has told my heart for decades that "this is home" but my heart doesnt listen and, for me, living in UK for nearly a decade from 2011 was the most amazing experience despite being full time carers for elderly parents.  I am back here now and the black dog is creeping back despite all my attempts at rationalisation.  I really think you know quite early on whether this is the place you want to grow old and die in and you do have to be proactive about moving on rather than letting yourself get beyond the point of no return which has certainly happened to a lot of us - finances, family etc etc  There is absolutely no shame in deciding you dont want to live here - it's just another first world country, it isnt magic and if your needs, values, interests are best met somewhere else then moving on is the most sensible option - I hate it when moving on is portrayed as a "failure" of some sort - it's no such thing.

[DevilsAdvocate]

32 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Alternatively, it could be said that banging your head against the brick wall to make the headache go away is also not a great idea.  I dont think it takes that long to know whether you belong or not.  I hesitate to use the word "settled" because that implies you are never going to move and I hate that feeling.  I have been here a long time and in the beginning it was fine, no homesick, no yearning to return because I always knew that it was possible to move on and I had great holidays back with my folk.  However once it became obvious that I was stuck here then it became really unpleasant - I dont belong and never have, despite having been here for more than half my life.  My head has told my heart for decades that "this is home" but my heart doesnt listen and, for me, living in UK for nearly a decade from 2011 was the most amazing experience despite being full time carers for elderly parents.  I am back here now and the black dog is creeping back despite all my attempts at rationalisation.  I really think you know quite early on whether this is the place you want to grow old and die in and you do have to be proactive about moving on rather than letting yourself get beyond the point of no return which has certainly happened to a lot of us - finances, family etc etc  There is absolutely no shame in deciding you dont want to live here - it's just another first world country, it isnt magic and if your needs, values, interests are best met somewhere else then moving on is the most sensible option - I hate it when moving on is portrayed as a "failure" of some sort - it's no such thing.

Firstly, I’ve not mentioned failure. 
 

Secondly, I completely disagree with your first statement. The example I made (1 to 2 years) settlement is a ball park figure obviously these vary from individual to individual. 
 

Most migrants feel overwhelmed on first arrival or over the first 6 months, that feeling can be misconstrued in many ways. Hence why I said that it can take time to change your prospective. Or am I incorrect? 

[Cobs_Ahoy]

Thanks for sharing that @Quoll and I’m sorry to hear that the unhappiness with being in Australia is becoming more prominent for you. What you said about not wanting to grow old/die here and returning ‘home’ while you still can really resonates, and I think that is what’s driving my thoughts at the moment. 

 

[Cobs_Ahoy]

That’s actually really helpful @DevilsAdvocate as that feeling of being overwhelmed describes it exactly, and that’s something that I’m not used to feeling. It made me feel panicky because when you have children it’s scary to feel like you lack the skills/knowledge to manage if there was a crisis, particularly as you don’t have the safety net of friends/family around you.

[Marisawright]

7 hours ago, Cobs_Ahoy said:

Thanks for sharing that @Quoll and I’m sorry to hear that the unhappiness with being in Australia is becoming more prominent for you. What you said about not wanting to grow old/die here and returning ‘home’ while you still can really resonates, and I think that is what’s driving my thoughts at the moment. 

Although you've got plenty of time before you have to worry about that, I do think it's something to bear in mind.   At the moment, one of the things that's making it hard is that your kids aren't settled.   if you stay in Australia for a year or two, that's a long time for children.  Before you know it, they'll be settled and making friends, and then you'll feel guilty about uprooting them and making them go through the whole thing again by moving back.  Perhaps better to move back before they get to that point?

TBH it would be different if you'd come to Australia with a clear idea of why you wanted to move.  I'd be saying, hang onto your goals and give yourself time.  However I do get the impression it was more of a "we'll never know if we don't try" and so I wonder if there's really enough to hold you in Oz.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Marisawright

[Cobs_Ahoy]

Yes that was my thoughts about whether it’s better just to get the kids back asap @Marisawright but now I’m less panicky, I’m learning more towards giving them a proper ‘experience’ of what it’s like to live abroad, so that if/when we return to the U.K. it’s something that has been positive for them and they can look back on it fondly. I was so worried about extracting my 7yo from friends/family in the U.K. but it went far better than expected and if anything has really helped her confidence, hopefully a return to the U.K. would be similar. I think one year would be ok, friendships in the U.K. can be maintained without too much drifting,  2 years probably is a bit too long at that age. 
 

you are absolutely right about our ‘give it a try’ mentality, Australia hasn’t been a lifelong goal/dream, it was simply an opportunity that presented itself due to the pandemic, and at that point we were feeling frustrated/trapped with our circumstances in the U.K. if we do return to the U.K., it will be with a renewed sense of purpose and a better awareness of what we need to do to improve our lives there, and hopefully with a lot off happy memories of a great adventure living abroad for a year (or so). 
 

Im also finding that my clinical placement isn’t helping - I’m working with adults who are post-retirement age and it’s giving me some serious guilt about leaving my aging mum alone in the U.K! I wouldn’t have described myself as someone who was particularly close to family, but the thought of my mum needing care/being in hospital and me being in Australia is tormenting me!!!!

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, Cobs_Ahoy said:

Im also finding that my clinical placement isn’t helping - I’m working with adults who are post-retirement age and it’s giving me some serious guilt about leaving my aging mum alone in the U.K! I wouldn’t have described myself as someone who was particularly close to family, but the thought of my mum needing care/being in hospital and me being in Australia is tormenting me!!!!

It's definitely something to consider.   Bear in mind that if you do decide to settle permanently in Australia, it's likely to be virtually impossible to bring your mum to live in Australia with you.  Even now, the parent visa fees will cost you about $100K, and the waiting time is at least 10 years from date of application (that's because they grant only a few thousand parent visas each year, and there are already over 70,000 applicants in the system).  It's likely to be much worse by the time you've gained the right to even apply for that visa, because the government basically doesn't want elderly migrants -- they are too much of a drain on the health/aged care system.

[Quoll]

10 hours ago, Cobs_Ahoy said:

Im also finding that my clinical placement isn’t helping - I’m working with adults who are post-retirement age and it’s giving me some serious guilt about leaving my aging mum alone in the U.K! I wouldn’t have described myself as someone who was particularly close to family, but the thought of my mum needing care/being in hospital and me being in Australia is tormenting me!!!!

If you've got siblings I'm sure it's probably less of an issue because it's easier to palm off responsibilities to one of them. If you're an only then it's the pits. You might be around retirement age yourself before parents become a crunch issue in which case you might be free to return then to look after them. We were certainly able to retire to look after my parents - I reckon the tipping point is somewhere in their late 80s but maybe I was just fortunate in that regard. 

[Blue Flu]

On 30/12/2022 at 06:49, DevilsAdvocate said:

Firstly, I’ve not mentioned failure. 
 

Secondly, I completely disagree with your first statement. The example I made (1 to 2 years) settlement is a ball park figure obviously these vary from individual to individual. 
 

Most migrants feel overwhelmed on first arrival or over the first 6 months, that feeling can be misconstrued in many ways. Hence why I said that it can take time to change your prospective. Or am I incorrect? 

Saying that I've only just become overwhelmed by living in Perth after twenty years.  Not to say I adored it previously but could travel regularly and thought it okay, if somewhat dull place and parochial. Recent (two years) findings has made me want out of the place and never return but difficult to reach an accord on this with partner. 

[beanbear]

I think there are lots of things that will help you to settle. You definitely make friends more easily when you have Primary aged children and once you know people and have joined in with things you may feel more part of your new community. It will be easier once the housing is also sorted. It is more of a culture shock than you probably anticipated and that can be hard too. 

On the schooling side I (as someone who's taught in both countries) am adamantly opposed to all the testing and stress the UK puts on children in primary. The Oz system seems slower paced and that's great! Kids here still become vets and nurses etc but also have more variety of experience, learn to be more articulate and grow up more slowly with things like scouts on offer and plenty of sport and outdoor stuff. 

If you have come and not really improved on what you had in the UK, you might question the benefit overall. Give it time with as positive a perspective as you can. Where you are has lots to offer for families. 

Personally I feel the UK is in its worst state in living memory! 

[DevilsAdvocate]

On 31/12/2022 at 19:22, Blue Flu said:

Saying that I've only just become overwhelmed by living in Perth after twenty years.  Not to say I adored it previously but could travel regularly and thought it okay, if somewhat dull place and parochial. Recent (two years) findings has made me want out of the place and never return but difficult to reach an accord on this with partner. 

I’ve been fortunate enough to have worked all over Australia and Perth was listed as my least favourite two cities in Australia, with Adelaide coming in at the bottom. I lived in Adelaide for 2 years. 
 

My preference was SE QLD as it ticked most of the boxes for the family. 

[DevilsAdvocate]

1 hour ago, beanbear said:

I think there are lots of things that will help you to settle. You definitely make friends more easily when you have Primary aged children and once you know people and have joined in with things you may feel more part of your new community. It will be easier once the housing is also sorted. It is more of a culture shock than you probably anticipated and that can be hard too. 

On the schooling side I (as someone who's taught in both countries) am adamantly opposed to all the testing and stress the UK puts on children in primary. The Oz system seems slower paced and that's great! Kids here still become vets and nurses etc but also have more variety of experience, learn to be more articulate and grow up more slowly with things like scouts on offer and plenty of sport and outdoor stuff. 

If you have come and not really improved on what you had in the UK, you might question the benefit overall. Give it time with as positive a perspective as you can. Where you are has lots to offer for families. 

Personally I feel the UK is in its worst state in living memory! 

100% Agree with your last sentence. I have friends in the UK itching to get out due to sky rocking energy prices, inflation and stagnation of wages. Horses for courses though. 

[Bulya]

On 31/12/2022 at 20:22, Blue Flu said:

Saying that I've only just become overwhelmed by living in Perth after twenty years.  Not to say I adored it previously but could travel regularly and thought it okay, if somewhat dull place and parochial. Recent (two years) findings has made me want out of the place and never return but difficult to reach an accord on this with partner. 

Two week long visits was enough for me.  Had a great time but couldn’t imagine being stuck there. 

[Bulya]

17 hours ago, DevilsAdvocate said:

I’ve been fortunate enough to have worked all over Australia and Perth was listed as my least favourite two cities in Australia, with Adelaide coming in at the bottom. I lived in Adelaide for 2 years. 
 

My preference was SE QLD as it ticked most of the boxes for the family. 

I’d say Darwin/Perth then Adelaide although I couldn’t get out of Melbourne fast enough after two years (split over two periods) 

[Blue Flu]

On 01/01/2023 at 21:31, DevilsAdvocate said:

I’ve been fortunate enough to have worked all over Australia and Perth was listed as my least favourite two cities in Australia, with Adelaide coming in at the bottom. I lived in Adelaide for 2 years. 
 

My preference was SE QLD as it ticked most of the boxes for the family. 

Fair enough. Although have lived in FNQ have never been to SE QLD. Not sure it would suite me but purely based on a perception of being somewhat lacking substance  and just as exposed to criminal activity as here in WA. 

Adelaide as a city possibly tops Perth IMO , but a close call. I have only been there three times as a visitor and staying by a Adelaide born, London friend, it was clearly expressed to me the negative side that city possess. Both have similar failings due to similar issues and I'll say no more on that. 

Perth, a city in denial   , too small to be challenged (everybody that matters knows everybody in that position)and as put to me all bases are covered. Hardly a nourishing sort of place when thinking about it. 

[Guest]

On 01/01/2023 at 13:36, DevilsAdvocate said:

100% Agree with your last sentence. I have friends in the UK itching to get out due to sky rocking energy prices, inflation and stagnation of wages. Horses for courses though. 

It would be interesting to know how you are finding cost of living in Oz, compared to here. 

Similarly to the OP we have young children so will need alot of paid childcare. 

We have gone from saving £500-1000  per month here to barely anything at all and we haven't been able to go abroad. 

We have a £1000 per month mortgage and if we remortgaged now it would be £1700-2000 (which appears similar to Australia). We are also now £350 per month for gas and electricity, but our nursery fees are cheaper than Australia. 

We are moving to Brisbane - Sydney and Melbourne were out of reach for us in terms of property prices (taking into account that we want reasonable commute, good school, family areas etc). 

I'd note cost of living not the only issue - healthcare system decline, constant strikes, weather, work opportunity. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Guest
Additional point

[DevilsAdvocate]

15 minutes ago, Constance said:

It would be interesting to know how you are finding cost of living in Oz, compared to here. 

Similarly to the OP we have young children so will need alot of paid childcare. 

We have gone from saving £500-1000  per month here to barely anything at all and we haven't been able to go abroad. 

We have a £1000 per month mortgage and if we remortgaged now it would be £1700-2000 (which appears similar to Australia). We are also now £350 per month for gas and electricity, but our nursery fees are cheaper than Australia. 

We are moving to Brisbane - Sydney and Melbourne were out of reach for us in terms of property prices (taking into account that we want reasonable commute, good school, family areas etc). 

I'd note cost of living not the only issue - healthcare system decline, constant strikes, weather, work opportunity. 

Other than Food & Fuel it seems to be cheaper here. Our Mother in law is out here at the minute and is giving us the run down. I’m surprised people can live a half decent life in the UK. 
 

Wages are higher in Aus with certain professions, so factor that in too. 
 

It definitely seems like I have more disposable cash here then I ever had in the UK. But again… Horses for courses. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, DevilsAdvocate said:

Other than Food & Fuel it seems to be cheaper here. Our Mother in law is out here at the minute and is giving us the run down. I’m surprised people can live a half decent life in the UK. 
 

Wages are higher in Aus with certain professions, so factor that in too. 
 

It definitely seems like I have more disposable cash here then I ever had in the UK. But again… Horses for courses. 

We definitely feel that. We both have good jobs as mid to senior level managers in well paying professions. We're not top flight high earners but we work alot and don't feel that we have the balanced life that we should. 

We should be more comfortable than we are and it's projected to get worse. 

I genuinely don't know how this economy can be sustained over winter as people can't afford energy and food bills. We are lucky that we are not in that position, but it's more than 50% of the country facing that. It's frightening.