Things the wrong way round?

[Manc_in_Melb]

Hi All,

I've read lots of threads on here about people's decisions and turmoil about moving back to the UK.  Often what sways it is the reality of being near family back in the UK, which is obviously a strong pull factor. 

My situation is a bit different. I'm 34, from Manchester and have been living in Melbourne with my Australian wife for 7 years. We lived together in Vietnam for 2 years before that, which was where we met. We also have 4 year old twin boys.

I have a very small, very dysfunctional family back home whereas my wife has quite a large, loving, supportive family here.  Our boys love spending time with my wife's parents and their cousins.

When we first moved to Melbourne, I loved it. I still really enjoy the place but have started to feel a lot more isolated over the last year.

The thing I miss most about home is my friends, who were and are essentially like my family. There's a big group of us who are really close and we used to do everything together. Now we're at the time of life where people are getting married and having kids etc. and it's making me feel the distance all the more.

I haven't been able to stop thinking about moving back home recently. I've discussed it with my wife who has said that she would be willing but she always adds on "for a while", which is fine, I don't know whether I'd want it to be permanent either.

I am just struggling with guilty thoughts at potentially taking the boys away from a loving extended family to one that I would probably want to limit their interaction with. To the point where I'm thinking I should "suck it up" and get on with things as they are, for everyone else's benefit.

Be interested to hear some independent opinions. Everyone around me that I could ask would have some sort of (even unintentional) bias.

Thanks guys!

 

[Quoll]

If you're both up for a bit of short term adventure then your kids are young enough to give it a go. One issue is whether your wife can get a visa - does she have UK Ancestry or will you have to go down the spouse visa route? That can be trickier with respect to some benefits that your family might otherwise have been entitled to. Little kids can generally cope with a bit of adventure (especially if you are, by nature, an adventurous family) and experiencing new places and doing new things for a while doesn't do any harm.

My guess is that this would be only a short term move for you all but it might make it easier for you to live in Australia for the longer term (I'm certainly feeling that with my experience at the moment - sort of a battery recharge). As long as you have your Aussie citizenship you'll have belt and braces on.

[Guest]

Missing a friendship group is hard.

I get you not being close to your family or spending time with them so in that respect your kids would most likely miss out on really getting to know them. Thats for you to decide if you want to put the effort into trying to make it happen or not also. 

If you really want your family to experience life in the UK for a few years, for more than the friendship circle, I'd say go for it. If its that one thing, it perhaps is worth just sitting on for a little while till you can figure out what it is you really are missing or wanting and if there are some shorter term options (ie you go on a holiday for a few weeks to visit). Or if you can work through the things and come out the other side. 

Do you visit ever? Spend a bit of time over there with them? Perhaps that is something to consider if you don't want to uproot your family right now. TBH moving back for a friendship group is hard. They are all moving on with their lives and as to if life would be as you remember it should you go back, it will be different as you are having your own families, perhaps a geographical distance between you (even a 20 miles down the road thing can mean you don't see someone for months on end). You are looking at it with nostalgia for something that you remember possibly, however, with partners and kids in tow these days, how you remember it isn't how it will probably be.

We moved back here 4 years ago (to Aus) and my husband has only seen his best mate a few times in all that time. He lives a ways a way (same city, other side of it), has his own family and stuff going on and they have their own lives to lead. While we'd like to see a bit more of them, the reality is we are all busy, kids have stuff on and with everything we only catch up once a year or so. Yet when they were both single they hung out most weekends, played sports and so on. I get on ok with the wife of his mate but tbh we are never going to be close or really friends, its far more acquaintance type thing for the both of us women. Our kids don't really gel to be good friends or anything, they just don't see each other enough and as not attending same school or anything, no real chance of friendship as it were. Its nice when we do catch up though but its not the be all and end all for us or for my husband. Once partners, jobs/careers and kids came along the dynamic changed. Your own dynamic will be different also. Perhaps you are missing friends and don't have that same sort of thing here hence missing it more. 

I'd mull things over a while and see if there is anything you could do this end to help before uprooting your family (this is your friendship circle, she isn't part of it, do you hope she'd make friends with the wives/partners of your mates or something as that may not happen). Your wife is saying 'for a while' to a possible move but no one can know how it might go should you all move there. She may hate it, you may struggle, you may both love it and want to stay longer or one want to return after a few years as they had said 'for a while' and you might not. Then what? 

 

[Taff]

9 minutes ago, snifter said:

Missing a friendship group is hard.

 

Definitely one of the things I found hardest. Though I must admit that in the 16 years I've been here, friends and friendships have changed.

[Skani]

In the 9 years you have been away how often have you been back?  Nostalgia can be very seductive but it's not always matched by reality.  Is it possible to have a family holiday back there then reassess after that?

[Manc_in_Melb]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Quoll - I do have Aussie citizenship, so that's not an issue.  My wife doesn't have any UK ancestry, so a spouse visa would be required.  I'm sure I read somewhere that, if one parent is British, then you still get all applicable child benefits?  I have to research the visa situation a bit more, though I know from media reports and the like that it's pretty onerous these days.  I'm 90% confident that I could arrange UK employment from Australia that easily satisfies the financial requirements, so hopefully it wouldn't be too much of an issue for us.

Snifter, Skani - I get back once every couple of years on average.  You know what it's like though - it's such a long way that it's only worth going if you're going for a few weeks and saving up that kind of leave is tricky unless you have zero days off through the year.  It had also crossed my mind that my wife might not necessarily make friends with my friends or their partners.  They've obviously met but it's been in short bursts of a few days here and there.  It's also crossed my mind that I might not want to come back once we're over there "for a while" - not sure what I'd do in that situation.  We do have a holiday pencilled in for September 2019 for a wedding, so could potentially do a recce at that point.

We have a pretty stable and secure position here - a house that we like and have a reasonable mortgage on, my job is secure and pays well (though it's stressful quite often), we have support from my wife's family with the boys. 

Moving back would certainly make things uncertain - we'd have to rent, we'd have less support with the boys, different education systems and school age brackets, Brexit, air pollution etc. etc.  On the flipside though, I would have more work-life balance in the UK - flexible working, 5 weeks leave as standard + bank holidays (the kinds of things that aren't available to me here), meaning I could spend more time with the family, which might help them to settle more easily.

I know I should do a pros and cons list and be objective but it's pretty hard, especially when feeling emotional about it.  First world problems, hey?!

 

 

[AJ]

What you have to remember is your friends that you have a great time with when you are there on holiday are making a special effort to see you because you are only there for a couple of weeks.  You have been away for 7 years things move on, people get on with their lives while you are not around, maybe have different friendships than what they did when you lived there.  I dont think after a long time away you can expect it just to be the same as it did when you lived there before and before kids came along

Edited September 12, 2017 by AJ

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Hi @Manc_in_Melb I haven't read all the replies or any response you have made but what I have noticed as have my children from moving around in Australia between states is that although you think people are your best friends and like family once you are gone they carry on without you. My son grew up with a really good friend in Melbourne, they were like brothers, they kept in touch all the time on FB and I always thought their friendship was set in stone but last year my son flew down to stay with him for a few weeks and he came home and said mum, we have grown apart, this friend had now gained a new circle of friends, changed hobbies etc so they had nothing in common anymore. 

I would hate for you to throw away what you have here in the hope of going back home and expecting to pick everything up where you left off. 

'When we originally made the move to Australia I found out who were good friends then as most of them were envious of our move and switched us off totally, some cried and said they would keep in touch, it lasted 2 months, these are people who I had grown up with from being a toddler.

I would say go back on a vacation and see how things are, but even then it may be good for the first week but then everyone will get back to their life and leave you wondering what the hell have I done.

[Manc_in_Melb]

Hi guys,

I'm under no illusions that, if we moved back, it would be out for beers and curry every night of the week.  

My friends and I still keep in touch most days (the magic of Skype and Whatsapp!) and a few of them have come out to visit, as well as some of us meeting up for holidays in Asia.  Granted, all of those meetings have occurred when someone (either us or them) has been on holiday, so it's obviously different to day-to-day life but I think that the relationships are still strong.

That said, I think I'm coming to the realisation that it's probably too much to put everyone through just so I can have my friends around, enjoy sarcasm again, have nice country walks, watch football at reasonable times etc. etc. Pretty selfish of me.  It would be a lot of disruption for the boys especially.  We moved around a lot when I was a kid and I'm conscious that it can be quite stressful. I suppose it would also set us back financially.

I guess I'll just have to try to keep some perspective, remember who I'm doing it for and try not to become resentful...

[Guest The Pom Queen]

10 minutes ago, Manc_in_Melb said:

Hi guys,

I'm under no illusions that, if we moved back, it would be out for beers and curry every night of the week.  

My friends and I still keep in touch most days (the magic of Skype and Whatsapp!) and a few of them have come out to visit, as well as some of us meeting up for holidays in Asia.  Granted, all of those meetings have occurred when someone (either us or them) has been on holiday, so it's obviously different to day-to-day life but I think that the relationships are still strong.

That said, I think I'm coming to the realisation that it's probably too much to put everyone through just so I can have my friends around, enjoy sarcasm again, have nice country walks, watch football at reasonable times etc. etc. Pretty selfish of me.  It would be a lot of disruption for the boys especially.  We moved around a lot when I was a kid and I'm conscious that it can be quite stressful. I suppose it would also set us back financially.

I guess I'll just have to try to keep some perspective, remember who I'm doing it for and try not to become resentful...

I don't think you are being selfish at all. Everyone has to be happy in a relationship. You need to convince your friends to move over lol. 

What I do think would help is trying to have some "you" time. I keep saying this to my hubby. He has no friends over here and no one to go to the pub with or have a vent to. To be honest I don't have any here apart from virtual friends and a handful of people who I have adopted as family and met on here and in real life, but they are a flight away. Like you I do miss the saracastic humour, if I say anything joking to some Aussies they take it the totally wrong way. 

[Manc_in_Melb]

21 minutes ago, The Pom Queen said:

What I do think would help is trying to have some "you" time.

Yeah, that would probably help.  It does seem like work, work, and more work at the moment.  Hopefully some time off over Christmas will help.... and I do have a couple of friends coming out over NY, so that might take the edge off :-)

21 minutes ago, The Pom Queen said:

Like you I do miss the saracastic humour

:-D

Edited September 12, 2017 by Manc_in_Melb

[Guest]

It may be you need to address the work life balance here in Aus, if it's possible. To give you time to focus on friends and family here. 

Or to possibly have public holidays off and if possible a bit of unpaid leave to tack on to annual leave? My husband takes a bit of unpaid leave or racks up some hours and takes them in lieu of pay. It's perhaps only a few days but it can add almost a week to an overseas trip of worked in with weekend or public holiday. 

You obviously have a lot of contact with your friends in the UK, that in itself isn't an issue but if it impacts on your forming friendships here it could be an issue as you are living for long distance friendships and that they simply cannot work into your day to day real life in Aus. Not in the way as you might like or want.

I don't know I could live with that much frequent contact with friends in the UK or elsewhere as it would distract me from life where I am and possibly cause me to feel unsettled or missing out, when in fact what I have in front of me is actually enough if I am not turning my head back every 5 minutes IYKWIM. 

 

[Shellshocked]

i would say value what you have now in the here and now and count your blessings.

 

[Manc_in_Melb]

I suppose in a way, it just comes to my being lonely, even though I'm surrounded by people.

8 hours ago, Shellshocked said:

i would say value what you have now in the here and now and count your blessings.

Yeah, I know.  Australia has been good to me; it gave me a chance to start again in a way, to reinvent myself.  I realise that we're pretty fortunate.  I guess I'm just thinking about the fact that, if I feel this way now, how will I feel as the years go by?  I want to be a happy and positive person for the boys and I'd prefer it to not be an act, if you know what I mean.

 

14 hours ago, snifter said:

I don't know I could live with that much frequent contact with friends in the UK or elsewhere as it would distract me from life where I am and possibly cause me to feel unsettled or missing out, when in fact what I have in front of me is actually enough if I am not turning my head back every 5 minutes IYKWIM. 

Yep, I know exactly what you mean.  It's hard though, I'm so used to having contact with them.  Have done for 20 years.  It would be weird to scale it back.  I guess I could try to not focus on it so much.

[Quoll]

4 hours ago, Manc_in_Melb said:

I suppose in a way, it just comes to my being lonely, even though I'm surrounded by people.

Yeah, I know.  Australia has been good to me; it gave me a chance to start again in a way, to reinvent myself.  I realise that we're pretty fortunate.  I guess I'm just thinking about the fact that, if I feel this way now, how will I feel as the years go by?  I want to be a happy and positive person for the boys and I'd prefer it to not be an act, if you know what I mean.

 

Yep, I know exactly what you mean.  It's hard though, I'm so used to having contact with them.  Have done for 20 years.  It would be weird to scale it back.  I guess I could try to not focus on it so much.

There are therapies which might help you get through your days if you decide to stay - CBT worked for me but ACT works for others - all depends on what sort of a person you are. I certainly found that putting on the "happy and positive" face every morning wore me out in the long run. It's ok for a few years but when those years turn to decades it becomes a real drain on your mental health and going through life living a lie slowly destroys you.

Ive always been someone who works on the "out of sight out of mind" principle and yet I still have a number of very good friends in UK who have been here for me as I have had this sojourn back. My mates and I lapse into the chat as soon as we see each other and it's as if we have never been apart. Friends in Australia know I'm not there but most couldn't give a toss, they're not the same kind of mates!

Ultimately I'm guessing you will have to be the sacrificial lamb but don't let that stop you having an adventure fling! Your kids will be fine. They will love having new adventures, there's so much more for them to do here and, yes, you're uprooting them for a while but that's a good experience for encouraging resilience. They don't have to grow up in the same house with the same wallpaper forever! You need to look after your long term mental health so you can be the positive, upbeat, adventurous dad you want to model to your kids. You'll probably lose some money but you'll likely get piece of mind in return. You're lucky that your wife is prepared for an adventure too - a lot of partners don't. They just dig in their heels and the jail bars clang down on you making it even worse. 

[Scousers1]

On 12 September 2017 at 19:24, Manc_in_Melb said:

Hi guys,

I'm under no illusions that, if we moved back, it would be out for beers and curry every night of the week.  

My friends and I still keep in touch most days (the magic of Skype and Whatsapp!) and a few of them have come out to visit, as well as some of us meeting up for holidays in Asia.  Granted, all of those meetings have occurred when someone (either us or them) has been on holiday, so it's obviously different to day-to-day life but I think that the relationships are still strong.

That said, I think I'm coming to the realisation that it's probably too much to put everyone through just so I can have my friends around, enjoy sarcasm again, have nice country walks, watch football at reasonable times etc. etc. Pretty selfish of me.  It would be a lot of disruption for the boys especially.  We moved around a lot when I was a kid and I'm conscious that it can be quite stressful. I suppose it would also set us back financially.

I guess I'll just have to try to keep some perspective, remember who I'm doing it for and try not to become resentful...

Being from Liverpool area, not that far from Manchester i totally understand. I constantly read on here people who say things like " friends would have moved on" i have been here 30 years and non of my friends have moved on. Just been over for 3 weeks and its just the same as when i left. I have finally learnt that you cannot get the same friendships here, i have tried and have now given up. Our best friends of 25 years started to make alot of money from their business ( here in oz) and totally dropped us, what the hell!! Now i understand what my friends in UK mean when they say moving to OZ never changed me! Didnt understand that for many years but i do now!