Petals Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 http://www.theage.com.au/national/one-in-five-migrant-workers-on-457-visas-could-be-underpaid-or-incorrectly-employed-20150529-ghcmxr.html Thought I would post this article from this mornings Age Newspaper. We in Aus all know this is happening its been happening for years. As I posted on the forum yesterday, these visas are now under the gov eye and the Australian population is demanding they be cut back and a lot do not want them at all. A lesson learned. A lot of these people will be people without good English and from third world countries but they are not the only ones who are burnt. There have been people on this forum who have had bad employers. The problem is if the employer turns out to be a bad un its the migrant who has to find a new employer to sponsor them or leave the country in 90 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 One in 5 reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The subclass 457 visa program is often picked on by media outlets as it is an easy and emotive target. It is rarely reported on fairly or without bias. If you read this story carefully it has been written specifically to show a particular view point, rather than reporting facts. Firstly they are talking about both the 457 and 417 programs. These are two completely different visas. The 457 requires: 1) the Australian business to be an approved sponsor, 2) that they have a nomination for each position approved and 3) they are liable to regular monitoring and sanctions if found to be doing the wrong thing. The 417 by contrast is for young tourists to work and have a holiday. There is no requirements for employers to be approved sponsors. As such anyone can employ a 417 holder. The combination of unchecked employers and young tourists, often with poor English language ability, unfortunately often leads to exploitation. No one is denying that something need to be done here to protect young vulnerable tourists. The 457 on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish. The article states that "One in five migrant workers in Australia on 457 visas could be underpaid or employed in jobs they should not be doing". This is not a statement of fact but an assumption, based on what? The numbers from regular monitoring of 457 sponsors do not support these figures. The Assistant Minister for Immigration has stated that "Reports of significant rorting of the 457 visa program are completely unfounded and based on a misrepresentation of the data provided by the Fair Work Ombudsman". The media likes to demonise the 457 program as it is an easy target. The reality of the situation is that there are a number of industries in Australia that would collapse overnight if they were not able to access skills via the subclass 457 program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 If a 457 employer decides to shut down a company and re-establish a similar business (same address, same principals) with a new ABN does the Fair Work Ombudsman have jurisdiction? Dear Mr xxxx I request you honour the repatriation commitment you entered into when you nominated me as an employee of xxxx PTY LTD. I am asking for you to meet my travel costs to return to Germany. I will accept AUD $1800 in full satisfaction of this claim. I require this amount to be deposit to my bank account within 28 days from the date of this letter. Yours sincerely xxxx Distribution: Solicitor W Russell RMA xxxx DIBP WA ATO Minister for Immigration File ************************************************************************************************ Department of Immigration and Border Protection WA Cancellations Dear xxx xxx has contacted me to advise her about her immigration status and her options. I have attached a completed form 956. My instructions so far indicate that the case is quite complex and there are a number of outstanding issues, underpayment and non-payment of wages and superannuation amounts, a current application to the ATO to recover those taxation deductions that were paid. I was further instructed that xxx’s claim for unpaid wages failed for lack of jurisdiction, her employer having declared bankruptcy. I will be grateful if you will allow me a period to arrange a conference with my client to take instructions, contact relevant authorities and prepare a considered response to your email of 12 August 2014. Best regards Westly Russell RMA 0316072 Collapse Company Summary Company Summary Name: xxx PTY LTD ACN: 155 xxx ABN: 26 xxx Registration date: 28/02/2012 Next review date: 28/02/2015 Status: Deregistered Date deregistered: 7/04/2014 Type: Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares Locality of registered office: Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission ********************************************************************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The subclass 457 visa program is often picked on by media outlets as it is an easy and emotive target. It is rarely reported on fairly or without bias. If you read this story carefully it has been written specifically to show a particular view point, rather than reporting facts. Firstly they are talking about both the 457 and 417 programs. These are two completely different visas. The 457 requires: 1) the Australian business to be an approved sponsor, 2) that they have a nomination for each position approved and 3) they are liable to regular monitoring and sanctions if found to be doing the wrong thing. The 417 by contrast is for young tourists to work and have a holiday. There is no requirements for employers to be approved sponsors. As such anyone can employ a 417 holder. The combination of unchecked employers and young tourists, often with poor English language ability, unfortunately often leads to exploitation. No one is denying that something need to be done here to protect young vulnerable tourists. The 457 on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish. The article states that "One in five migrant workers in Australia on 457 visas could be underpaid or employed in jobs they should not be doing". This is not a statement of fact but an assumption, based on what? The numbers from regular monitoring of 457 sponsors do not support these figures. The Assistant Minister for Immigration has stated that "Reports of significant rorting of the 457 visa program are completely unfounded and based on a misrepresentation of the data provided by the Fair Work Ombudsman". The media likes to demonise the 457 program as it is an easy target. The reality of the situation is that there are a number of industries in Australia that would collapse overnight if they were not able to access skills via the subclass 457 program. There has been numerous rorts around 457's as has reported for a few years and have known a few myself. Of course the government is hardly going to critique something their big business sponsors support. Just a quick search will bring cases to light. Of course many from developing world countries don't dare complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 http://www.theage.com.au/national/one-in-five-migrant-workers-on-457-visas-could-be-underpaid-or-incorrectly-employed-20150529-ghcmxr.html Thought I would post this article from this mornings Age Newspaper. We in Aus all know this is happening its been happening for years. As I posted on the forum yesterday, these visas are now under the gov eye and the Australian population is demanding they be cut back and a lot do not want them at all. A lesson learned. A lot of these people will be people without good English and from third world countries but they are not the only ones who are burnt. There have been people on this forum who have had bad employers. The problem is if the employer turns out to be a bad un its the migrant who has to find a new employer to sponsor them or leave the country in 90 days. Very much the case. The visa seems to have changed track from the original highly qualified professional to more blue collar jobs impacting on the Australian workforce. Suites very well vested interests as a passive workforce and those that do business around the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 There has been numerous rorts around 457's as has reported for a few years and have known a few myself. Of course the government is hardly going to critique something their big business sponsors support. Just a quick search will bring cases to light. Of course many from developing world countries don't dare complain. I understand that there are rorts within the subclass 457 visa program, I just do not believe that they are as prevalent or widespread as some media outlets suggest. Any visa program is going to have rorts, as this is unavoidable, just look at partner visas, refugee visa, etc. The point is that for the subclass 457 program there are safeguards, monitoring and sanctions in place. The constant demonising of the program is largely unwarranted as on the whole it is a very successful program, for both migrants and employers, when used properly. Why do you never see any of the many 457 success stories being publicised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I understand that there are rorts within the subclass 457 visa program, I just do not believe that they are as prevalent or widespread as some media outlets suggest. Any visa program is going to have rorts, as this is unavoidable, just look at partner visas, refugee visa, etc. The point is that for the subclass 457 program there are safeguards, monitoring and sanctions in place. The constant demonising of the program is largely unwarranted as on the whole it is a very successful program, for both migrants and employers, when used properly. Why do you never see any of the many 457 success stories being publicised? I suspect the government would prefer to keep quiet the over use of 457's within the wider community. There have been some supposed safeguards introduced after abuses became widely known in the last two years. The massive increase in 457 in recent years does reflect in the negative on training to local workers as why pay to train when somebody as already done so and the visa allows to try before you buy. It is often used as a backdoor to entry Australia around the migration system in place. Cheaper option as well of course. Not sure of what goof 457 stories could be published. Many on this forum got in through this means. Is that a positive story? Certainly for the individual. No doubt for business. Not so sure in how many cases for the nation. We are hardly in boom times. Why haven't numbers been reduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I suspect the government would prefer to keep quiet the over use of 457's within the wider community. There have been some supposed safeguards introduced after abuses became widely known in the last two years. There have always been safeguards such as Minimum salary levels, Market Rates, Monitoring, etc. They are regularly changed and strengthened as required or when issues are identified. The massive increase in 457 in recent years does reflect in the negative on training to local workers as why pay to train when somebody as already done so and the visa allows to try before you buy. The numbers fluctuate both up and down depending on industry demand. The latest figures actually show a reduction in numbers. “4.1 per cent lower 457 primary visas were granted in the 2014-15 programme year to 31 March 2015, compared with the same period in the previous programme year. The number of primary visa holders in Australia on 31 March 2015 was 4.5 per cent lower compared with the same period in the previous programme year. 6.6 per cent lower 457 primary visas were granted in the 2014-15 programme year to 31 December 2014, compared with the same period in the previous programme year. The number of primary visa holders in Australia on 31 December 2014 was 0.8 per cent lower compared with the same period in the previous programme year.” As for training, it is actually a requirement of becoming an approved sponsor to meet and maintain training benchmarks for Australian staff. It is often used as a backdoor to entry Australia around the migration system in place. Cheaper option as well of course. How can it be a “back door” if people are genuinely applying for a visa? You may be refereeing to the fact that 457 holders can apply for PR via the Employer Nomination Scheme. The ENS scheme has been the most successful visa program as unlike independent and state sponsored visas, most people who are nominated via the employer nomination scheme, continue working in their nominated occupation and thus genuinely address labour needs. Not sure of what goof 457 stories could be published. Many on this forum got in through this means. Is that a positive story? Certainly for the individual. No doubt for business. Not so sure in how many cases for the nation.We are hardly in boom times. Why haven't numbers been reduced? As per my earlier post, there are many industries in Australia that would be badly affected if not for the subclass 457 visa program. The viability of such industries creates employment for Australians. The reality is that for some occupations and industry sectors there are simply not enough skilled Australians to fill key positions. If there were, why would businesses go to the trouble and cost of employing foreigners? Again, I agree that the system is not perfect and there is some misuse, but it is not as widespread as some would have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 No doubt these visas will be under the pump because the gov will be worried about what Aussies think about them. My point is to make sure anyone on the forum who wants to use such a visa knows all the details of the visa, also what happens if they do not like the job, or if the company fails, what is their recourse. In the heat of the moment when all is looking rosy these are overlooked. I have been on this forum for many years and seen quite a few sad stories with these visas where people have to return to the UK. Also if there is a partner what happens if the relationship fails. These are the questions people need to answer before taking one. Not whether they are good or bad for us here in Aus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABL275 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 No doubt these visas will be under the pump because the gov will be worried about what Aussies think about them. My point is to make sure anyone on the forum who wants to use such a visa knows all the details of the visa, also what happens if they do not like the job, or if the company fails, what is their recourse. In the heat of the moment when all is looking rosy these are overlooked. I have been on this forum for many years and seen quite a few sad stories with these visas where people have to return to the UK. Also if there is a partner what happens if the relationship fails. These are the questions people need to answer before taking one. Not whether they are good or bad for us here in Aus. Good to be forewarned so that people can make informed decisions about the risks involved, but on the plus side, it does sound as if 4 out of 5 people on a 457 visa are not exploited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 No doubt these visas will be under the pump because the gov will be worried about what Aussies think about them. My point is to make sure anyone on the forum who wants to use such a visa knows all the details of the visa, also what happens if they do not like the job, or if the company fails, what is their recourse. In the heat of the moment when all is looking rosy these are overlooked. I have been on this forum for many years and seen quite a few sad stories with these visas where people have to return to the UK. Also if there is a partner what happens if the relationship fails. These are the questions people need to answer before taking one. Not whether they are good or bad for us here in Aus. Agree petals. I've also seen numerous posts on here trying to explain what the 457 visa is all about for people and posts from people on 457's saying they know already. A lot still use that visa and manage to get PR. Fair play to them, if I really wanted to come and couldn't get a PR visa outright I would give it a shot. I wouldn't be able to complain though if I didn't manage to get PR and had to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 No doubt these visas will be under the pump because the gov will be worried about what Aussies think about them. My point is to make sure anyone on the forum who wants to use such a visa knows all the details of the visa, also what happens if they do not like the job, or if the company fails, what is their recourse. In the heat of the moment when all is looking rosy these are overlooked. I have been on this forum for many years and seen quite a few sad stories with these visas where people have to return to the UK. Also if there is a partner what happens if the relationship fails. These are the questions people need to answer before taking one. Not whether they are good or bad for us here in Aus. Well the government as usual holds a wide section of the population in disdain and naturally wants little negative revelations on the matter in order to suit it own and corporate agenda. One can only assume that the intent of government is to undermine local pay and conditions while at the same time keep the throttle on full speed ahead on population growth and capital's share of profits. It is not only the sad stories of people being mistreated or being at beck and call of employer if out to exploit but also the wilful abuse of regulations with little ability to police conditions and the impact on local employment and training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Good to be forewarned so that people can make informed decisions about the risks involved, but on the plus side, it does sound as if 4 out of 5 people on a 457 visa are not exploited I'd suggest the numbers are hard to ascertain. Most are not in a position to complain. Check out building trade exploitation of imported workers. Schneider Elevators Australia recently reported not to have paid workers. What about local workers being displaced? IT industry for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 There have always been safeguards such as Minimum salary levels, Market Rates, Monitoring, etc. They are regularly changed and strengthened as required or when issues are identified. The numbers fluctuate both up and down depending on industry demand. The latest figures actually show a reduction in numbers. “4.1 per cent lower 457 primary visas were granted in the 2014-15 programme year to 31 March 2015, compared with the same period in the previous programme year. The number of primary visa holders in Australia on 31 March 2015 was 4.5 per cent lower compared with the same period in the previous programme year. 6.6 per cent lower 457 primary visas were granted in the 2014-15 programme year to 31 December 2014, compared with the same period in the previous programme year. The number of primary visa holders in Australia on 31 December 2014 was 0.8 per cent lower compared with the same period in the previous programme year.” As for training, it is actually a requirement of becoming an approved sponsor to meet and maintain training benchmarks for Australian staff. How can it be a “back door” if people are genuinely applying for a visa? You may be refereeing to the fact that 457 holders can apply for PR via the Employer Nomination Scheme. The ENS scheme has been the most successful visa program as unlike independent and state sponsored visas, most people who are nominated via the employer nomination scheme, continue working in their nominated occupation and thus genuinely address labour needs. As per my earlier post, there are many industries in Australia that would be badly affected if not for the subclass 457 visa program. The viability of such industries creates employment for Australians. The reality is that for some occupations and industry sectors there are simply not enough skilled Australians to fill key positions. If there were, why would businesses go to the trouble and cost of employing foreigners? Again, I agree that the system is not perfect and there is some misuse, but it is not as widespread as some would have you believe. That is just it minimum levels have not be adhered to in a number of cases. Anyway instead of addressing your points singularly I will say that the matter is considered so serious that the Senate voted 37 to 31 in favour of an inquiry into Australia's working visa system. The inquiry is due to report back on 22 June. I hope not a white wash and serious flaws in the present system are addressed. As a final note the fact that the Senate voted not just to look at the abused 457 visa but also the 417 WHV as well as other temp visa's which allow some 1.1 million foreign nationals work in Australia goes some way to suggesting the concern felt at least in certain quarters. Of course employer groups, Master Builders for example alone spent some $150,000 I believe on advertising in order to convince Senate to support the bill. What has been badly hit is the reduction of training in trades and industry with the knowledge it is cheaper and better to import already skilled up workers. Hardly creates employment for Australians as well as adding to the housing costs and infrastructure decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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