Guest241083 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 ........just a thought.........but are we so willing to just blame our chosen governments for their lack of compassion..... ........the homeless..........the increased ageing population.... ........we voted you in.......sort it...! ........while so many of us then sit back ,we've done our bit.....! ........one pebble at a time........ .........if we all did at least one thing for those less fortunate than ourselves...... .........we could create a better world..... .........so easily our wants have become needs...... .........that those without have become feared...... .........we shall have less....? ..........have we become so blinded by greed that the plight of the truely desperate....... ...........those with absolutely nothing ...........not even a land to call home.......... ...........are not viewed with compassion and a willingness to want to help..... ...........we trot out our regional problems.......not ideas for solutions.....or even contributions..... ............no wonder the global problems are feared..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 LOL @ Mary's 'concern' re the homeless, whilst voting LNP! FFS. So, voting for the LNP means you are unconcerned about the homeless? Why? Because the LNP is unconcerned about the homeless? Why because the LNP, whether Federally, or at State level does not fund charities and other agencies that work with the homeless? Here is your cue to carry out some research and 'prove' the above, and I guess with the other stats that 'prove' voting for Labor or The Greens means that you ARE concerned for the homeless? FFS indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Meanwhile, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/17/tony-abbott-backs-other-countries-turning-back-asylum-seeker-boats The prime minister, Tony Abbott, says he won’t criticise countries turning back asylum-seeker boats to stop people smuggling. Thousands of Rohingya from Burma and Bangladeshi migrants are feared stranded at sea with Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand turning away their rickety boats. Abbott said on Sunday he was not critical of efforts made by other nations to stop people smuggling in the region. “I don’t apologise in any way for the action that Australia has taken to preserve safety at sea by turning boats around where necessary,” he said. “And if other countries choose to do that, frankly that is almost certainly absolutely necessary if the scourge of people smuggling is to be beaten.” If that meant taking “more vigorous” action on the high seas or closer to Burma, so be it, he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Meanwhile, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/17/tony-abbott-backs-other-countries-turning-back-asylum-seeker-boats The prime minister, Tony Abbott, says he won’t criticise countries turning back asylum-seeker boats to stop people smuggling. Thousands of Rohingya from Burma and Bangladeshi migrants are feared stranded at sea with Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand turning away their rickety boats. Abbott said on Sunday he was not critical of efforts made by other nations to stop people smuggling in the region. “I don’t apologise in any way for the action that Australia has taken to preserve safety at sea by turning boats around where necessary,” he said. “And if other countries choose to do that, frankly that is almost certainly absolutely necessary if the scourge of people smuggling is to be beaten.” If that meant taking “more vigorous” action on the high seas or closer to Burma, so be it, he said. What is your point? How do you propose we solve the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Meanwhile, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/17/tony-abbott-backs-other-countries-turning-back-asylum-seeker-boats The prime minister, Tony Abbott, says he won’t criticise countries turning back asylum-seeker boats to stop people smuggling. Thousands of Rohingya from Burma and Bangladeshi migrants are feared stranded at sea with Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand turning away their rickety boats. Abbott said on Sunday he was not critical of efforts made by other nations to stop people smuggling in the region. “I don’t apologise in any way for the action that Australia has taken to preserve safety at sea by turning boats around where necessary,” he said. “And if other countries choose to do that, frankly that is almost certainly absolutely necessary if the scourge of people smuggling is to be beaten.” If that meant taking “more vigorous” action on the high seas or closer to Burma, so be it, he said. .........so that's the answer.......! .........everyone......everywhere......just turn the boats away..... .........not my problem..... .........I'm ok ...... .........mans inhumanity to man......personified.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 What is your point? How do you propose we solve the problem? .......globally...... .......and Australia needs to acknowledge it's fair share.......of this...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 If you fail to see the blatant contradiction of a political 'leader' crapping on about saving lives at sea, whilst shrugging his shoulders and saying 'meh' at the fate of thousands of refugees facing certain death, then frankly you must be soft in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 .........I agree with the housing problem.......perhaps time for the government to adress this...!........look at new ideas......solutions...... .........the world is overpopulated.......! .........so who's to find the solution.......? .........the countries with the huge problem......or the ones with much smaller .........60 000 on the waiting list.....yes it's shameful.... .........but Australia is trying to rectify the problem...... .........I know about street people.......we try and reach many with soup kitchens....hostels.... ..........not enough....... ...........but not enough.....I'm all rights.......doing their bit....! ..........so imagine a place that's 100 times worse.....! ...........and on top of that persecuted...... ...........no we can't change the governments of other countries,... ...........but we can help the people fleeing them.... ...........educate them .....train them,..... ...........and hopefully they return and implement some of this ............a pebble at a time......we can move mountains..... ............if the homeless is an issue you can do something about......offer your floor for a night or two... ............the problems of the world are ours to solve..... .............but without each small step....... .............it remains insurmountable..... .............homeless in Sydney.......or homeless in Africa....? ..............ageing in the UK........or a war torn state..... ..............I can't find the index of which countries help the most..... ..............but 49 th is disgraceful..... ..............Australia is part of a global community.......and as such.....even with its own problems... ...............should not shut its eyes,.....close its doors......to the problems of others..... ...............time perhaps for the haves in the world.......to have a little less..... ...............and our government......to start the ball rolling with incentives for jo public to do so....! ...............each and every one of us can make a difference to someone..... ................and that strand of humanity......connects to the next.....and the next.... ................homeless.....refugee.......aged........make a difference.....! So what do you propose that we should do? In theory, everybody in Australia could offer to house a refugee. Ten million homeowners in Australia (guestimate), then bring in ten million refugees and each home owner could feed and house one, problem solved? We are already moving that 'one pebble' at a time. We have always done that. We have always helped other countries, which is much more than you can say about countries like Burma. People do come to Australia to learn new skills, and then return home to hopefully make their home countres better, though many of them, don't want to return home, having tasted life in Australia. This talk about a 'global community' is not workable. We have a United Nations and various other global bodies who often do good work, but there is no way that we could have 'one world, one people, one nation.' It has never happened. Humanity is not 'wired' to think like that. Australia is not rich because we have been greedy or 'stolen' wealth from other people (a common argument about countries like Britain with their colonialist and imperialist policies. If anything, Australia, as a former colony, should be poor, not rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 If you fail to see the blatant contradiction of a political 'leader' crapping on about saving lives at sea, whilst shrugging his shoulders and saying 'meh' at the fate of thousands of refugees facing certain death, then frankly you must be soft in the head. But on the other side of the argument if all that is needed to secure safe passage to Australia or indeed anywhere is is to get yourself onto a rickety boat and set sail then the misery will increase and the only winners are those profiting from providing those rickety unsafe boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 So what do you propose that we should do? In theory, everybody in Australia could offer to house a refugee. Ten million homeowners in Australia (guestimate), then bring in ten million refugees and each home owner could feed and house one, problem solved? We are already moving that 'one pebble' at a time. We have always done that. We have always helped other countries, which is much more than you can say about countries like Burma. People do come to Australia to learn new skills, and then return home to hopefully make their home countres better, though many of them, don't want to return home, having tasted life in Australia. This talk about a 'global community' is not workable. We have a United Nations and various other global bodies who often do good work, but there is no way that we could have 'one world, one people, one nation.' It has never happened. Humanity is not 'wired' to think like that. Australia is not rich because we have been greedy or 'stolen' wealth from other people (a common argument about countries like Britain with their colonialist and imperialist policies. If anything, Australia, as a former colony, should be poor, not rich. .......it's a start...! .......those with room.......time..... .......it doesn't have to cost more.......just have less... .......and global community will only work..... ........when each and everyone of us.... ........takes responsibility for the problems.... ........not just the fruits of success..... ........and expect our government......to do likewise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 did you see the latest poll Harpo, We are gaining on you. Happy Days. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/fairfaxipsos-poll-coalition-draws-5050-with-labor-abbott-approval-soars-20150517-gh3ok8.html Fairfax too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 But on the other side of the argument if all that is needed to secure safe passage to Australia or indeed anywhere is is to get yourself onto a rickety boat and set sail then the misery will increase and the only winners are those profiting from providing those rickety unsafe boats. .........the boats are merely a means to an end..... .........the issue is fleeing persecution..... .........the desperate and frightened..... .........boats ,planes....automobiles.......immaterial.....! ..........the issue is finding a way......and being accepted .....into a safe haven..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 But on the other side of the argument if all that is needed to secure safe passage to Australia or indeed anywhere is is to get yourself onto a rickety boat and set sail then the misery will increase and the only winners are those profiting from providing those rickety unsafe boats. Which means those who got on boats deserve to die? Because if you're advocating everyone turning them away, then death is the only possible outcome. I get that you wish to discourage people smugglers, but is the death of 1000s an acceptable price to pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It is interesting that they only try and leave during the non monsoon season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It is interesting that they only try and leave during the non monsoon season. More interesting the fact that your contempt knows few bounds. The fact that people hole up to await calmer seas and a better chance of survival, rather than committing suicide going in monsoon times, would rather obvious to the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Why is it absurd? Harpo hates Tony Abbott for his 'Stopping the boats' policy. He has said so enough times. He thinks that anybody who tries to get into Australia by boat (or other means) and claims to be an asylum seeker should be accepted into Australia, which means 'let them all in.' I am concerned about allegations of ill treatment in detention camps, but I am also suspicious of those who accept every allegation at face-value. If a person claims to be an asylum seeker, then then it must be true. If a person alleges ill-treatment by Australia's border patrols, of staff in detention camps, then it must be true. It does not need to be investigated. It needs to be front page news in the Fairfax Press, Guardian, or the ABC. A well trodden path of repetition but I think both parties are condemned in their brutality and overall impact on the consensus of those seeking asylum, but the Abbott government upped the anti considerably by going out of their way in the punishment displayed. There are is so much evidence given by those on the ground into the ill treatment, other those in denial of the existence of concentration camps would be the sort to deny the obvious which has frequently been presented on forums as such. Even the government doesn't deny tough policies were in place but of course balk at disclosing exactly what went go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudite Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I thank you Tony Abbott. We all know the boats never stopped, but at LEAST he stopped them coming HERE. What a guy! This is a sick world we live in, where stateless Rohingyan refugees with no home to go to are being bounced around SE Asia, as if in a game of refugee ping pong, and left to die in the ocean. I have a horrible feeling the EU will start doing the same very soon. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/14/malaysia-turns-back-migrant-boat-with-more-than-500-aboard?CMP=soc_567 Malaysia turns back migrant boat with more than 500 on board. You all need to be thanking Tony Abbott! Do you really want Australia to become a dumping ground for all the misfits. The UK is so overrun with refugees, asylum seekers & illegal immigrants that no one now knows what the hell to do about it. There are so many murders, rapes, burglary etc., & a great deal of the time it is these people who are committing them. If I had the power, I'd send them back. I'd also say to the ones that are here, beware, because you may have Australian citizenship, but if you commit a serious crime, you will be stripped of that privilege & sent back from whence you came! Too many 'do gooders' in this world. The UK respects Australia for its strict laws & is envious. Believe me when I say, PROTECT YOUR BORDERS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 But on the other side of the argument if all that is needed to secure safe passage to Australia or indeed anywhere is is to get yourself onto a rickety boat and set sail then the misery will increase and the only winners are those profiting from providing those rickety unsafe boats. Stop talking sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I am repeating the same basic question. How should we decide how many people we allow into Australia? Is there a finite number? If Australia increased its refugee intake to, say one million a year, would that be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Which means those who got on boats deserve to die? Because if you're advocating everyone turning them away, then death is the only possible outcome. I get that you wish to discourage people smugglers, but is the death of 1000s an acceptable price to pay? Well, if people smugglers were forced out of business, there would be no unseaworthy and overcrowded boats. and no people drowning. So, it seems that YOU are the one who thinks that 'thousands of people are an acceptable price to pay.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085295/Generous-widow-set-TWO-charity-direct-debits-bombarded-1-000-begging-letters-five-years.htm What might happen if you try to do more than 'your bit!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 .........the boats are merely a means to an end..............the issue is fleeing persecution..... .........the desperate and frightened..... .........boats ,planes....automobiles.......immaterial.....! ..........the issue is finding a way......and being accepted .....into a safe haven..... I do feel for these people whether they are persecuted or so beset by poverty and lack of opportunity that they are willing to risk their lives in the hope of salvation. My problem with it all is that for every poor soul on these boats there are a thousand more to follow. Ultimately you will never be able to take them all so what do you do? If you put a number on it then what do you do once that number has been reached and there are still people dying on boats? Its a human tragedy for sure but the true blame is rarely if ever levied at the countries and regimes that are responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Which means those who got on boats deserve to die? Because if you're advocating everyone turning them away, then death is the only possible outcome. I get that you wish to discourage people smugglers, but is the death of 1000s an acceptable price to pay? I would ask you if you feel that rescuing the people on these boats will actually prevent thousands of others who follow from dying unseen. Thousands of others encouraged by the hope that they will be rescued. There is no winning in a situation such as ths unfortunately. Only the scale of potential loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 I would ask you if you feel that rescuing the people on these boats will actually prevent thousands of others who follow from dying unseen. Thousands of others encouraged by the hope that they will be rescued. There is no winning in a situation such as ths unfortunately. Only the scale of potential loss. So thats a yes then. You'd let them die slowly in front of the world's media. To 'send a message'. I'm gobsmacked. This thread is very chilling reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 You all need to be thanking Tony Abbott! Do you really want Australia to become a dumping ground for all the misfits. The UK is so overrun with refugees, asylum seekers & illegal immigrants that no one now knows what the hell to do about it. There are so many murders, rapes, burglary etc., & a great deal of the time it is these people who are committing them. If I had the power, I'd send them back. I'd also say to the ones that are here, beware, because you may have Australian citizenship, but if you commit a serious crime, you will be stripped of that privilege & sent back from whence you came! Too many 'do gooders' in this world. The UK respects Australia for its strict laws & is envious. Believe me when I say, PROTECT YOUR BORDERS!!! Good rant, but IMO it was incomplete: you missed out the bit about the 'need to save lives at sea' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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