MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Hi All, First post Been living in Australia on a PR 189 (Skilled Migrant) visa for 18 months now and have been looking into citizenship. I plan to go backpacking for a year at the end of this year and I know that being out of the country can affect my citizenship eligibility. I am going travelling with my Australian girlfriend (who I live with and have done my whole time in Australia) and have today found out that a ministerial discretion can help my residency requirement on the citizenship. I seem to pass all the required steps for this except I'm concerned about the last bit: you maintained a close and continuing association withAustralia where in the application I have to provide: evidence that you had a close and continuingassociation with Australia during the period ofabsence Problem is, we don't own a house, I wont have a job while I am away so I'm not sure what else will be considered "close and continuing association" since obviously I've already played the "my girlfriend is an aussie" card getting to this point Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You are not going to get ministerial discretion because you are off backpacking. You will need to look at citizenship again in the future, after th clock has been reset or partially reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why not? I can't see any restriction for the reasons. Only that I have to be with my de-factor partner who is an Australian citizen for the entire period, which I will be. Having also fully lived and worked in Oz for the remaining 3 years seems like a better chance than I have read for some other people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why not? I can't see any restriction for the reasons. Only that I have to be with my de-factor partner who is an Australian citizen for the entire period, which I will be. Having also fully lived and worked in Oz for the remaining 3 years seems like a better chance than I have read for some other people! There is a very small chance for anyone. Partners of Australian citizens generally have to do the time onshore towards citizenship like anyone else. The ministerial discretion is reserved for special cases for example if the Aussie spouse is posted overseas to conduct some sort of government work. Ministerial discretion is not routine, the minister would not want to get personally involved if it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Do have experience of this? The minister does not get personally involved, it will be a registered officer. There still isn't any official documentation that I can find that backs up your assertion that the reasons for absence are significant. Do you actually know this and can point me to some evidence\examples for that? In fact, after a bit more digging, I think I have answered my own question. Section 5.18 of the Australian Citizenship Instructions (ACIs) seems to indicate that at least three things will apply to me for the "continuing association" rule: regular periods of residence in Australia long term relationship with Australian citizen spouse or de facto partner intention to reside in Australia evidence of income tax paid in Australia over the past four years; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Madfruit, I just am aware. But i can see that you are one of those that will only believe what you want to believe so I will leave you to it. Maybe just ask yourself, why would it require ministerial discretion if it was something so straightforward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 No offence, but I believe in evidence, experience and/or other examples. I don't just take for granted what someone on the internet who says "I'm just aware" which goes against all other evidence and documentation I have found. It seems to me the opposite, and you want to believe you are "just aware" and to come across as someone of superior knowledge, but cannot backup how you are "just aware" of this. I'm more than happy to be shown otherwise, and you may well have some significant knowledge in this specific area. Unfortunately you completely fail to make your case and I'm not inclined to just believe unsupported hearsay from some Joe on the internet who thinks that all Ministerial Discretion decisions are made directly by the minister for immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why do you need citizenship quicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 It's not really a case of needing to get citizenship quicker, it's more of a case of moving onto citizenship rather than having to get a number of bridging visa after my PR runs out. As far as I understand it (and please do correct me if I missed something) my PR is valid for five years where I can enter and leave Australia as I like, after that period I have leave to remain indefinitely, but if I leave Australia I cannot re-enter on that visa any more. I'd have to get some sort of bridging visa. Since I like to travel regularly and for extended periods this would continue to cause problems for me and I would probably never get the four years continuous residency. Therefore, I'm looking for a way to get past the four year continuous residency restriction. Obviously, combined I'll be in Australia a lot longer than the four years, it's just the continuous residency that gets me. Thus it looks very much like the ministerial discretion is exactly for this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 After the first 5 years of your permanent visa, you need a Resident Return visa(not a Bridging visa) to re-enter Australia. When you apply for an RRV, if you've spent a total of 2 years out of the 5 immediately before applying, you get a 5 year RRV which resets your right to re-enter for another 5 years. If you've spent less than 2 years out of the 5 in Australia, you can still get a 1 Year RRV. If as you say "combined I'll be in Australia a lot longer than the four years", a 5 year RRV should be achievable. Admittedly, it's not as secure as citizenship but it's a whole lot better than needing a BV whenever you want to leave the country - even a 1 year RRV is better than needing a BV. http://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/155-157.aspx And, just to add... I've been around the immigration traps for a long time and I don't think you would have much chance of getting a Ministerial discretion waiver for the situation you've described. That waiver is intended where the Australian partner must work overseas and the PR holder must stay with them or for a few other fairly specific reasons. Choosing to backpack overseas with your Australian partner is most unlikely to fit the bill. If you can get a 5 year RRV, you probably won't need it anyway but by all means, apply for a waiver. The worst that can happen is that it won't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadFruit Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 After the first 5 years of your permanent visa, you need a Resident Return visa(not a Bridging visa) to re-enter Australia. When you apply for an RRV, if you've spent a total of 2 years out of the 5 immediately before applying, you get a 5 year RRV which resets your right to re-enter for another 5 years. If you've spent less than 2 years out of the 5 in Australia, you can still get a 1 Year RRV. If as you say "combined I'll be in Australia a lot longer than the four years", a 5 year RRV should be achievable. Admittedly, it's not as secure as citizenship but it's a whole lot better than needing a BV whenever you want to leave the country - even a 1 year RRV is better than needing a BV.http://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/155-157.aspx Thanks, yes that's the one I was thinking of, but it appears in best case I would have to continue to get those every five years (assuming I continued to travel). As you say, it's not particularly secure (especially since they could reject an application at any point) and I'd never actually become a citizen of the country I live in And, just to add... I've been around the immigration traps for a long time and I don't think you would have much chance of getting a Ministerial discretion waiver for the situation you've described. That waiver is intended where the Australian partner must work overseas and the PR holder must stay with them or for a few other fairly specific reasons. Choosing to backpack overseas with your Australian partner is most unlikely to fit the bill. If you can get a 5 year RRV, you probably won't need it anyway but by all means, apply for a waiver. The worst that can happen is that it won't succeed. Thanks for the non passive aggressive reply I've read on another forum where someone got this and didn't seem to imply they were "forcibly" living outside Australia. I appreciate that now two independent people have said that same thing (and that does carry more weight) but I still can't find any information that suggests the reason for absence is considered and none of the formal documentation says "Look, this is really intended for people who have no choice but to be out of Oz". It all just lays out the conditions, and I seem to pass them all. You say "or a few other fairly specific reasons" - what are these specific, surely if they're specific, they must be written down somewhere? I don't really want to waste my time applying for something which is a forgone conclusion, but I don't want to just ignore it either when I can't find anything concrete that says I just wouldn't be eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I have seen this clause when used in a auusie partner application. The way I took it was, if I died (I'm Australian) my English wife could still apply for citizenship/residency as she has a close and continuing association with Australia. By this it means that she has contact with my Australian family, our kids are Australian, we/she visits Australia - etc etc. Not sure if this helps you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxlornaxx Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Let us know how u get on with it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Just to let you know my partner has had pr for 30 years. We have left Australia to travel a number of times during this time. Yes it's required a resident return visa but provided you spend two in every five years living in Australia it's not an issue to get a resident return visa. He's not interested in becoming a citizen. To be fair we've not found it too much of a problem to get thr return visa when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Thanks, yes that's the one I was thinking of, but it appears in best case I would have to continue to get those every five years (assuming I continued to travel). As you say, it's not particularly secure (especially since they could reject an application at any point) and I'd never actually become a citizen of the country I live in Thanks for the non passive aggressive reply I've read on another forum where someone got this and didn't seem to imply they were "forcibly" living outside Australia. I appreciate that now two independent people have said that same thing (and that does carry more weight) but I still can't find any information that suggests the reason for absence is considered and none of the formal documentation says "Look, this is really intended for people who have no choice but to be out of Oz". It all just lays out the conditions, and I seem to pass them all. You say "or a few other fairly specific reasons" - what are these specific, surely if they're specific, they must be written down somewhere? I don't really want to waste my time applying for something which is a forgone conclusion, but I don't want to just ignore it either when I can't find anything concrete that says I just wouldn't be eligible. One of my close friends was married to an Aussie citizen and had a firm job offer with the Federal Government. They investigated the Minsterial Discretion route as she was 6 months shrt of being eligible for citizenshi, and couldn't accept the job without it. The reply? Wait your time and apply like everyone else. You can't short cut the 4 years residency unless you have an extremely exceptional reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianaussie Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You can spend up to a year in total out of the country in the 4 yr citizenship eligibility period without resetting the 'clock.' So go backpacking for 12 months then come back to Australia For another 12 months and then apply for citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scattley Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Madfruit. That stipulation if for people who work in areas like oil drilling where they spend significant time working outside what is classified as "in Australia" but are still working in their job. If you were working as a uni professor and had to spend 3 months in another country for a project that was time sensitive...this stipulation of ministerial discression could be used. Your backpacking holiday is a non essential activity. It's not something that is urgent it is purely a want on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianaussie Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not to hijack this thread but it has got me thinking. I spent 4.5 months last year back in the UK for family reasons; I also did a small amount of work for a UK company while there. I have an Australian partner who remained in Australia. I am now back in NSW. Do I need need this 'ministerial discretion' when applying for citizenship if I wish to include this 4.5 months in my total 4 year qualifying period?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You won't need (and would have no chance of getting) Ministerial discretion for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scattley Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Not to hijack this thread but it has got me thinking. I spent 4.5 months last year back in the UK for family reasons; I also did a small amount of work for a UK company while there. I have an Australian partner who remained in Australia. I am now back in NSW. Do I need need this 'ministerial discretion' when applying for citizenship if I wish to include this 4.5 months in my total 4 year qualifying period?? You ou can't include this time. You were in the UK for family reasons. Not to attend a conference or complete some work for your company that only you could do...it was a holiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianaussie Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 You ou can't include this time. You were in the UK for family reasons. Not to attend a conference or complete some work for your company that only you could do...it was a holiday But can't you be out of the country for up to 12 months total holiday time within that 4 year period? That's what the citizenship wizard says.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 You ou can't include this time. You were in the UK for family reasons. Not to attend a conference or complete some work for your company that only you could do...it was a holiday You can include ANY time outside Australia, whatever the reason for the absence, as long as it doesn't amount to longer than 12 months in the 4 years immediately before applying including no more than 90 days in the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtzau Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Hi All, First post Been living in Australia on a PR 189 (Skilled Migrant) visa for 18 months now and have been looking into citizenship. I plan to go backpacking for a year at the end of this year and I know that being out of the country can affect my citizenship eligibility. I am going travelling with my Australian girlfriend (who I live with and have done my whole time in Australia) and have today found out that a ministerial discretion can help my residency requirement on the citizenship. I seem to pass all the required steps for this except I'm concerned about the last bit: you maintained a close and continuing association withAustralia where in the application I have to provide: evidence that you had a close and continuing association with Australia during the period ofabsence Problem is, we don't own a house, I wont have a job while I am away so I'm not sure what else will be considered "close and continuing association" since obviously I've already played the "my girlfriend is an aussie" card getting to this point Any ideas? CO will access your application based on [h=3]Citizenship Policy Document June 2016[/h] https://www.border.gov.au/Citizenship/Documents/acis-june-2016.pdf and page 96, Evidence that the person has migrated to Australia and established a home in Australia prior to the period overseas; Australian citizen children; Long term relationship with Australian citizen spouse or de facto spouse; Extended family in Australia; Regular return visits to Australia; Regular periods of residence in Australia; Intention to reside in Australia; Whether applicant on leave from employment in Australia while accompanying spouse or partner overseas; Ownership of property in Australia; Evidence of payment of Australian income taxes over the 4 year period before the application; and Evidence of active participation in Australian community based activities or organisations In assessing whether a person has a close and continuing association with Australia for the purpose of s22(9)(d) more weight should be given to the listed factors if the person has been lawfully and physically present in Australia for at least 365 days in the four years immediately before making an application for Australian citizenship As you already lived in Australia for over than 18 months, you will be given more weight to the considering factors as above to access if you have continue and close association with Australia. So you may prepare supporting documents based on those factors as above, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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