UK Taxman Woe.

[rockola57]

I dislike HMRC!We came out to Oz in Sept 2008.Still have a house in the UK,couldnt sell as arse dropped out of market there.Any'ow,missus contacts pensions services about 8 months ago regarding her pension.Next performance we are getting bombarded by the UK taxman here,like twice a week for ages! We got our accountant to complete all backdated tax returns to get us up to date.

we did not have any tax to pay and he appealed for late filing of tax return penalties to be cancelled.

No chance.......unless we were unable to function in normal life(Their words).....we are now having to pay 3000 GBP .Peed off because each year we have now filed,we are not liable for Tax,as repairs etc took up any profit we might have made.Phoned them on Skype several times,waste of time that was.All the posts from them are impersonal auto generated.When in the UK last year we went to our local tax office,only to find the Government had closed them down.Its all internet now.Poor ole Wifey stressed out ,as they then said,because we had not filed returns,we will be paying 10 pound a day on top of this in penalties, untill we pay them!We are now paying like 100 dollars a week to stop the escalation process.The system of resolving anything with them now stinks.We moved home four times before contact with them here.We never knew they were posting to our forwarding address in the UK.Beware my friends,this is what happens if you dont fill in a UK tax return each year,if you have property still there.

Any one else had this problem? Advice greatly appreciated.

[Parley]

Why didn't you fill in our tax returns ?

[rockola57]

That's a big help,thanks!

[Que Sera Sera]

I don't see what else you can do. HMRC are one of the bills you have to pay. Id also be asking why your Aus accountant did not warn you of overseas properties ?

[Gbye grey sky]

Have you tried the appeal process. The penalty rules changed a few years ago. It used to be that the initial penalty was £100 with rolling £100 penalties every 6 months for non filing but penalties were limited to the amount of tax you had to pay. Can't remember when exactly but they changed the rules a few years back so the penalties still applied even if you had no tax to pay.

 

If you moved in 2008 and received no returns or penalty notices but knew that you would have no tax to pay anyway you may have some grounds for appeal on the basis that you did not know the rules had changed on penalties. Your accountant in the UK should have been advising you to try the formal appeal process. HMRC may accept the grounds for the appeal in full or in part. Ultimately if no agreement can be reached then the appeal is determined by a tribunal.

[rockola57]

 

I don't see what else you can do. HMRC are one of the bills you have to pay. Id also be asking why your Aus accountant did not warn you of overseas properties ?

Thanks .The Accountant didnt come into the fray over this untill it had all come to a head TBH.No blame attached there.

[Gbye grey sky]

I am no good at attaching links on this iPad but have a look at taxaid.org.uk and look at grounds for appeal against late filing penalties. My experience is that HMRC will do deals to settle such appeals in many cases.

[rockola57]

Have you tried the appeal process. The penalty rules changed a few years ago. It used to be that the initial penalty was £100 with rolling £100 penalties every 6 months for non filing but penalties were limited to the amount of tax you had to pay. Can't remember when exactly but they changed the rules a few years back so the penalties still applied even if you had no tax to pay.

 

If you moved in 2008 and received no returns or penalty notices but knew that you would have no tax to pay anyway you may have some grounds for appeal on the basis that you did not know the rules had changed on penalties. Your accountant in the UK should have been advising you to try the formal appeal process. HMRC may accept the grounds for the appeal in full or in part. Ultimately if no agreement can be reached then the appeal is determined by a tribunal.

Thanks for your reply my friend.We have appealed from here in OZ.We have never had an accountant in the UK.All you say is indeed correct,they changed the rules around 2010,or 11.The fines for non filing of tax returns annually now are potentially catastrophic.No doubt they would in effect take your property in the UK.Burying your head in the sand,with a property in the UK.... is at you peril it seems.

[Que Sera Sera]

Thanks for your reply my friend.We have appealed from here in OZ.We have never had an accountant in the UK.All you say is indeed correct,they changed the rules around 2010,or 11.The fines for non filing of tax returns annually now are potentially catastrophic.No doubt they would in effect take your property in the UK.Burying your head in the sand,with a property in the UK.... is at you peril it seems.

I hope the appeal works. Government department never make things easy do they?

[rockola57]

 

I am no good at attaching links on this iPad but have a look at taxaid.org.uk and look at grounds for appeal against late filing penalties. My experience is that HMRC will do deals to settle such appeals in many cases.

Thats great,thanks.I will look at this.

[rockola57]

 

I hope the appeal works. Government department never make things easy do they?

Only for themselves we find. x

[Gbye grey sky]

Thats great,thanks.I will look at this.

Bear in mind that the reason HMRC do deals is that tribunals are independent and are often sympathetic to unrepresented taxpayers in cases such as this. Don't get intimidated by the tribunal process, it is your best friend. HMRC are keen to avoid tribunals (though they will bluff).

[Guest]

A similar thing happened to us, we were told by HMRC as there was no profit from our rental we did not need to do tax returns and then discovered we were entitled to claim back the tax wrongly deducted by our rental agent so the nice man at HMRC reopened our previous three years tax returns and we were then bombarded with auto generated letters and fines of around the same amount. We made an initial appeal and could not believe it when it was refused. We then appealed against the appeal (it goes to an independent body at that point) and thankfully they ruled in our favour.

 

What is different though is we had a letter saying tax returns were not required and the only reason they became overdue was because they had been re-opened for us to claim a rebate.

 

Fight it all the way but unfortunately a lack of knowledge on your part does not excuse you from the fines so you may just have to accept you made a mistake.

[Bridgeman]

Not sure if you would be able to afford it but the best thing might be to actually pay the fine and then sort out the appeal afterwards. At least it would give you a breathing space. I got fined for a late tax return a couple of years ago, which was not my fault, as I had filed on time, but they sent the whole lot back to me saying there was an extra form I needed to fill in. They did give me an extension till end of January, however I didn't receive the letter till 25th January (posted in the UK on Christmas Eve!), so no way was it going to get to them in time. I paid the fine and then appealed afterwards and they let me off 'as a gesture of goodwill'. Fortunately I had kept all the correspondence including envelopes with date stamps etc.

[rockola57]

 

Not sure if you would be able to afford it but the best thing might be to actually pay the fine and then sort out the appeal afterwards. At least it would give you a breathing space. I got fined for a late tax return a couple of years ago, which was not my fault, as I had filed on time, but they sent the whole lot back to me saying there was an extra form I needed to fill in. They did give me an extension till end of January, however I didn't receive the letter till 25th January (posted in the UK on Christmas Eve!), so no way was it going to get to them in time. I paid the fine and then appealed afterwards and they let me off 'as a gesture of goodwill'. Fortunately I had kept all the correspondence including envelopes with date stamps etc.

Thank you for this info Bridgeman.We will speak again with our Accountant here.As you say,their correspondence is appalling.Snail mail 5th class in 2015!!Deliberate i suspect!Thanks again my friend.