Moving to Ireland OR Australia: the place, the culture, the people, the jobs?

[Guest spreadingwings]

Hi everyone!

 

The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).

 

So, both Ireland and Australia have their pros and cons, but as someone who hasn't yet visited either, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the best road forward.

 

How would these countries compare in terms of:

 

- the actual environment (types and size of house and garden, for example, variety of amenities and things to do like food markets, birding, national parks and such)

- transport options and ease of getting around (cars vs public - traffic congestion)

- the people / culture (in general, of course)

- the job market (depends on industry, of course, but in the digital marketing field there are jobs in both - but seemingly loads more in Aus)

- the economy / cost of living (which would allow me to afford to save more each month)

- medical options and costs (bearing in mind my dependant as well)

- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat?)

- safety (in general, is it safer for someone in their older years to be living in either or both of the countries?)

- if your answer is Aus, is the distance of Aus from everything else enough to outweigh the positives?

 

Thanks so much.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Anyone home?

[octatonic]

I'm Australian, living in London and have spent a lot of time in Ireland.

 

They are pretty different places.

It is really hard to say what you would prefer without knowing what you are looking for.

 

Do you want great weather?

Or do you fancy being on the doorstep of Europe?

What you are asking is a pretty vast topic- just taking one section of it- transport and distance.

 

You can't really make general statements about entire countries- for instance, traffic in central Sydney is way worse than rural Ballarat.

As a rule though metropolitan areas of Australia are fairly congested but also Australia has good motorways and roads.

Much of Ireland is single carriage way, so getting around can take a lot longer than you would expect coming from SA.

Australia is a lot larger than Ireland (obvs)- you can drive from Londonderry to Cork in around 6 hours if you give it some, and are lucky with traffic.

Getting from Sydney to Melbourne takes at least 9 hours (realistically, 11+).

 

You'll have a larger house in Australia, as a rule but only if you compare like for like.

 

Personally, I would be very hesitant to sink money into any EU country given the recent problems.

 

Maybe give us a bit more of an idea of where in Ireland vs where in Australia you were thinking and what you are looking for in terms of lifestyle, what you like to do with your time and such.

 

How do people take money out of SA these days.

My ex-gf ended up going back because she wasn't able to take money out.

[Guest spreadingwings]

I'm Australian, living in London and have spent a lot of time in Ireland.

 

They are pretty different places.

It is really hard to say what you would prefer without knowing what you are looking for.

 

Do you want great weather?

Or do you fancy being on the doorstep of Europe?

What you are asking is a pretty vast topic- just taking one section of it- transport and distance.

 

You can't really make general statements about entire countries- for instance, traffic in central Sydney is way worse than rural Ballarat.

As a rule though metropolitan areas of Australia are fairly congested but also Australia has good motorways and roads.

Much of Ireland is single carriage way, so getting around can take a lot longer than you would expect coming from SA.

Australia is a lot larger than Ireland (obvs)- you can drive from Londonderry to Cork in around 6 hours if you give it some, and are lucky with traffic.

Getting from Sydney to Melbourne takes at least 9 hours (realistically, 11+).

 

You'll have a larger house in Australia, as a rule but only if you compare like for like.

 

Personally, I would be very hesitant to sink money into any EU country given the recent problems.

 

 

You aren't the guy who recently won The Apprentice, are you?

 

Thanks for the feedback here. I think your last line sums it up completely. Not to mention that David Cameron has been making loud statements about leaving the EU. If this happens, an Irish passport won't do much for me.

 

Maybe give us a bit more of an idea of where in Ireland vs where in Australia you were thinking and what you are looking for in terms of lifestyle, what you like to do with your time and such.

 

 

I've been comparing Dublin and Sydney. But the more I think about it and with your extra comments here, it would be a silly move to ignore the many benefits, financial definitely included, of moving to Aus. Are you thinking of going back? I see you just joined this month as well.

 

How do people take money out of SA these days.

My ex-gf ended up going back because she wasn't able to take money out.

 

You're allowed quite a large allowance per year, especially if you state your emigration intentions officially. You can cash in your retirement annuity, for example, and take a lot of money with you. Not that I have endless amounts But there's nothing wrong with keeping your house here and renting it out. With an exchange rate of R9.50 to AUD$1, it won't take much to top up the difference between rental income and the mortgage repayment every month.

[srg73]

Huge difference between the countries and almost impossible to compare hence why you have had slow responses. Australia from the areas I have seen and experienced is much more american in its culture with everything becoming bigger, faster etc. Australua is embracing everything new and has resources to fall back on. Ireland is incredible but thrives on its past and culture. Ireland will boom shortly as they have been determined in getting their national debt in order which will mean a lot of Irish peopke will head home from offshore, I know many of my relations would head back from America.

 

I guess you need to decide if you want to move to a warm/hot busy forward looking country where the economy is levelling off slightly, housing is expensive etc or Ireland where rural life is slower, much more concerned with its past but highly likely to boom shortly (but still within the limitations of Europe)

 

S

 

British but 1/4 Irish and living in Aus.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Huge difference between the countries and almost impossible to compare hence why you have had slow responses. Australia from the areas I have seen and experienced is much more american in its culture with everything becoming bigger, faster etc. Australua is embracing everything new and has resources to fall back on. Ireland is incredible but thrives on its past and culture. Ireland will boom shortly as they have been determined in getting their national debt in order which will mean a lot of Irish peopke will head home from offshore, I know many of my relations would head back from America.

 

I guess you need to decide if you want to move to a warm/hot busy forward looking country where the economy is levelling off slightly, housing is expensive etc or Ireland where rural life is slower, much more concerned with its past but highly likely to boom shortly (but still within the limitations of Europe)

 

S

 

British but 1/4 Irish and living in Aus.

 

You're absolutely right about the two countries being so different. And you've summed up the choices pretty nicely. What made you choose Aus in the end?

[Marisawright]

Hi everyone!

 

The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia.

 

I'd say you would feel more at home in Australia. There are many similarities in the way of life.

 

I speak as someone who lived in Swaziland for three years and travelled extensively through SA, and now live in Australia.

 

I wouldn't even consider Sydney because the cost of housing is prohibitive, though. Where in SA do you live?

[Guest spreadingwings]

I'd say you would feel more at home in Australia. There are many similarities in the way of life.

 

I speak as someone who lived in Swaziland for three years and travelled extensively through SA, and now live in Australia.

 

That's some excellent context right there. Thanks for the feedback!

 

I wouldn't even consider Sydney because the cost of housing is prohibitive, though. Where in SA do you live?

 

I'm in Cape Town In the digital marketing industry, I'd have to be in Sydney or Melbourne. Everything stacked up, it seems that Sydney provides a much richer life experience than Melbourne would. I see you're in Sydney - do you disagree?

[Marisawright]

 

I'm in Cape Town In the digital marketing industry, I'd have to be in Sydney or Melbourne. Everything stacked up, it seems that Sydney provides a much richer life experience than Melbourne would. I see you're in Sydney - do you disagree?

 

No! Actually it depends what your interests are. I'm into dance and music, and Melbourne has a far better arts culture than Sydney, so that affects my view. The inner ring of suburbs around the Sydney CBD have a great foodie culture but for me, one of the challenges about Sydney is that once you get outside that inner ring, the outer suburbs can be wastelands (I'm sure a lot of people will now chime in saying how much they love living in the Hills District, Central Coast, South Coast etc - they are good for families but lack vibe for me, and they're a long way from where the action is).

 

One of the problems of comparing Sydney and Melbourne is that they are fiercely competitive. Melburnians love running down Sydney and Sydneysiders love ridiculing Melbourne, so it's hard to get an unbiased view. When I first came to Australia I was in Victoria - my husband got a job in Sydney and we were given all kinds of dire predictions of how awful Sydney would be, none of it true.

 

It will cost you at least a million dollars to buy a small cottage in that inner ring in Sydney. Melbourne is considerably less expensive, ranking fourth in cost of housing around Australia.

[Skani]

Anyone home?

 

This post arrived at 6.28 am and your first at 11 pm so....yes, we were home...but asleep!

 

Is there no chance for you to do a reccy trip to one or both countries? They are so very different and there are so many potential "Oh....I didn't think about that" moments in a country you've never visited before.

I think your comment about Sydney providing a "much richer life experience" than Melbourne demonstrates how erroneous such perceptions from a distance can be.

 

 

- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat?)

 

The weather within Australia varies enormously - it is, after all, equivalent in north-south distance to Morocco - southern Norway. If your choice is between Sydney and Melbourne then heat will not be a factor apart from some (unpredictable) spells in summer.

 

I'm not an expert in migration but, from reading other threads on here, I was under the impression that there is now a delay (of years) in gaining approval for a dependent parent...which may affect your situation.

[octatonic]

 

Thanks for the feedback here. I think your last line sums it up completely. Not to mention that David Cameron has been making loud statements about leaving the EU. If this happens, an Irish passport won't do much for me.

 

 

Que?

Cameron is the UK Prime Minister.

He isn't the president of Ireland- that is Michael Higgins.

[starlight7]

There are a lot of Irish people here in Australia too- you can hang out at the Irish pubs in Melbourne and get a bit of both if you want! Sydney or Melbourne? Hard to decide , depends on your interests really. I would say Sydney is more of an international city but I prefer Melbourne because I know it so well and all my family are here- seems a tad more friendly to me . Both good cities with loads to do though.

[Guest spreadingwings]

This post arrived at 6.28 am and your first at 11 pm so....yes, we were home...but asleep!

 

Is there no chance for you to do a reccy trip to one or both countries? They are so very different and there are so many potential "Oh....I didn't think about that" moments in a country you've never visited before.

I think your comment about Sydney providing a "much richer life experience" than Melbourne demonstrates how erroneous such perceptions from a distance can be.

 

The weather within Australia varies enormously - it is, after all, equivalent in north-south distance to Morocco - southern Norway. If your choice is between Sydney and Melbourne then heat will not be a factor apart from some (unpredictable) spells in summer.

 

I'm not an expert in migration but, from reading other threads on here, I was under the impression that there is now a delay (of years) in gaining approval for a dependent parent...which may affect your situation.

 

LOL, sorry for coming off a bit impatient. More like excited to hear back

 

I'd love to do a trip to both - the problem is the cost. The Euro is around R14 and the AUD$ is R9. Not to mention plane tickets of R9 000 and R16 000 respectively.

 

Que?

Cameron is the UK Prime Minister.

He isn't the president of Ireland- that is Michael Higgins.

 

I know My point was that if I was hoping for an Irish passport to open doors to Europe (including the UK), then Cameron pulling out of the EU would put a quick end to that.

[Guest]

LOL, sorry for coming off a bit impatient. More like excited to hear back

 

I'd love to do a trip to both - the problem is the cost. The Euro is around R14 and the AUD$ is R9. Not to mention plane tickets of R9 000 and R16 000 respectively.

 

 

 

I know My point was that if I was hoping for an Irish passport to open doors to Europe (including the UK), then Cameron pulling out of the EU would put a quick end to that.

 

Ireland is not part of the UK so the UK leaving the EU would have no impact on the rights of Irish passport holders only British.

 

Edit to add - oops I think I misunderstood - you mean if the UK pulls out of Europe and Irish passport would mean no rights to live/work in the UK. Is it the UK you really want to go to rather than Ireland? The rest of Europe would still be available to you (& IMHO UK will not leave the EU anyway)

[Guest spreadingwings]

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant Lady R

 

As I've dug a bit deeper, I've realised that I could be saving around AUD$2 000 every month (i.e. putting away and saving), where achieving this in Ireland is going to be extremely difficult.

[robfromdublin]

Irishman living in Brisbane.

 

House will be smaller in Dublin but more expensive in Sydney.

Weather is less restrictive in Ireland than Brisbane, but Sydney is better in my limited experience. Melbourne is a basket case for weather.

I find the lack of sunlight in the evenings in Brisbane very oppressive but again, Sydney will be better and Cape Town will be similar I'd imagine.

Traffic awful in Sydney. Much harder to get around than Dublin, primarily due to size.

The people. I'm biased so can't really comment, but I'd pick Ireland every time for actual friendships. Having said that, you may well find Sydneyites more cheerful on a superficial level.

Job market. You'll know better, but the digital space is huge in Dublin. Lots of global companies have their European, Middle East and Africa (EMEA) headquarters here. Having said that, you may be looking for work in a more regional sense (ie Australia) so Sydney might be better as Australia has a larger population.

Economy. Australia is in a much better state but Ireland is improving from the doldrums it was in. Really your actual job has more of an impact here. Sydney cost of living is astronomical.

Medical stuff. Public system might be better in Australia, private there is much of a muchness with Ireland probably cheaper. Again, depends on your situation. I have been treated in both systems and found both excellent, although emergency treatment in Ireland is a basket case.

Safety. Not sure what you mean here. Crime in Dublin is probably higher than Sydney, but weather is possibly less dangerous.

 

In my opinion, objectively Australia will tick the box on many of the practicalities, but a huge amount depends on what take-home pay you will get in either country. An Australian-average salary in Sydney will not get as far as an Irish-average salary in Dublin. I would also not discount the benefits of living in the hustle and bustle of Europe, and the shorter travel distance to Cape Town. A week's trip to SA is doable from Europe, especially with the lack of jet lag, but would not be too pleasant from Sydney.

[robfromdublin]

On the UK/EU thing, Ireland and the UK have a special relationship and I very much doubt that even if Cameron DID leave the EU that an Irish passport holder would not have free access to the English labour market. Before the EU was around, Irish people were able to freely work in England.

 

Just saw this whole second page of posts! If you're saving $2k a month in Australia then that's your decision made, no question. Just be sure of your sums. If you're out by even a little bit on your cost-of-living calculations then that $2k will disappear pretty quickly.

[Skani]

Melbourne is a basket case for weather.

 

 

??? Strange interpretation of "basket case". What does that make Dublin?

 

For Melbourne maximum average temperatures vary between 13.5 in the coldest month and 25.9 in the warmest.

 

Dublin's are 7.5 and 18.9 respectively.

 

Melbourne has less rain than Dublin (648 mm v. 732 mm) and more average daily sunshine hours (6 v.3.9).

 

Melbourne also has about half the average annual rainfall of both Sydney (1211) and Brisbane (1186).

[robfromdublin]

I'm talking about weather, not climate. They are very different things.

 

Especially in summer, Melbourne is subjected to either humid, windy weather from the ocean or dry, hot weather from the interior. Slight changes in wind speed and direction can result in ridiculously changeable weather, such as temperatures dropping 11 degrees in a matter of minutes! Sure Dublin's weather is also changeable but you can be relatively sure that if you take a rain jacket with you you're covered.

http://melbournenewscritic.com/2014/07/31/weather-response-to-melbournes-temperature-dropping-11-degrees-over-a-few-minutes/

 

That's just my opinion though. People often rave about the weather in Australia but I find myself spending less time outdoors than I did in Europe because I find it harder to protect against the heat/sun than against the cold/rain. Other people will believe differently.

[VERYSTORMY]

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant Lady R

 

As I've dug a bit deeper, I've realised that I could be saving around AUD$2 000 every month (i.e. putting away and saving), where achieving this in Ireland is going to be extremely difficult.

 

There is no guarantee you will earn more just by living in Sydney

[Guest spreadingwings]

Irishman living in Brisbane.

 

House will be smaller in Dublin but more expensive in Sydney.

Weather is less restrictive in Ireland than Brisbane, but Sydney is better in my limited experience. Melbourne is a basket case for weather.

I find the lack of sunlight in the evenings in Brisbane very oppressive but again, Sydney will be better and Cape Town will be similar I'd imagine.

Traffic awful in Sydney. Much harder to get around than Dublin, primarily due to size.

The people. I'm biased so can't really comment, but I'd pick Ireland every time for actual friendships. Having said that, you may well find Sydneyites more cheerful on a superficial level.

Job market. You'll know better, but the digital space is huge in Dublin. Lots of global companies have their European, Middle East and Africa (EMEA) headquarters here. Having said that, you may be looking for work in a more regional sense (ie Australia) so Sydney might be better as Australia has a larger population.

Economy. Australia is in a much better state but Ireland is improving from the doldrums it was in. Really your actual job has more of an impact here. Sydney cost of living is astronomical.

Medical stuff. Public system might be better in Australia, private there is much of a muchness with Ireland probably cheaper. Again, depends on your situation. I have been treated in both systems and found both excellent, although emergency treatment in Ireland is a basket case.

Safety. Not sure what you mean here. Crime in Dublin is probably higher than Sydney, but weather is possibly less dangerous.

 

In my opinion, objectively Australia will tick the box on many of the practicalities, but a huge amount depends on what take-home pay you will get in either country. An Australian-average salary in Sydney will not get as far as an Irish-average salary in Dublin. I would also not discount the benefits of living in the hustle and bustle of Europe, and the shorter travel distance to Cape Town. A week's trip to SA is doable from Europe, especially with the lack of jet lag, but would not be too pleasant from Sydney.

 

This is some of the best advice I've received so far. Your comparisons are specific and provide a lot of deep food for thought.

 

What prompted your move, Rob? And would you consider returning, given your feedback?

[robfromdublin]

Thanks!

 

My wife is from Brisbane and I was offered a good job here while we were living together in the UK so decided to come out and give it a go. We certainly plan on returning to Ireland to live at some point but the jury is out on when that might be. The reason I mention the real issue is what job you'll get is that I'm in the same boat pretty much. Australia can offer me much better job prospects given my skill set, so the lifestyle for us here is better because I earn more. As we both have strong family ties in each country we'll spend a number of years in each.

 

At the end of the day your question is very broad and all the replies will be coloured by each poster's personal experience. If you give some idea of your own interests and what you enjoy most out of life then it will make it easier to provide advice on which country might be best. Weather, for one, is a big thing. I know people who've spent a week in Ireland and left because it was just too damn cold. I know people who rarely venture outside in summer in Oz because the sun is too strong during daylight hours. Things like that make it hard to say whether the weather is better in one place or the other (although most people will say it is better in Oz, to be fair).

[Guest]

I've lived in South Africa (Modderfontein), Ireland (Dublin) and Australia (Perth) - although to be fair I was a child in SA so don't remember it. I have friends in Cape Town though and for some reason in Australia seem to bond more easily with South Africans than Australians - maybe it was just a shared migrant experience.

 

I would suggest you think long and hard about why you want to leave Cape Town as it's a wonderful place in its own right. Most people I know seem to leave due to safety concerns rather than the lifestyle and if that is you then I suspect Australia will meet your needs perfectly as there are a lot of similarities in lifestyle - outdoor living, swimming, beaches, camping, fishing, rugby etc. The seasons will be the 'right way around' for you - Christmas is in the summer - so your family traditions and culture will be impacted less plus you will meet lots of other South Africans in Australia.

 

If however it is a change of lifestyle that you want then Dublin probably beckons, it is a city with tremendous culture and yet you can be on the coast or in the mountains in less than an hour.

 

If you really would be $2k better off in Australia then that is a factor but I would question that and if you are thinking long term don't look at it from the price of renting (which is surprisingly affordable in Australia due to the tax breaks landlords get) but what it would cost to buy - and how far you'd be commuting to work to live there.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Thanks!

 

My wife is from Brisbane and I was offered a good job here while we were living together in the UK so decided to come out and give it a go. We certainly plan on returning to Ireland to live at some point but the jury is out on when that might be. The reason I mention the real issue is what job you'll get is that I'm in the same boat pretty much. Australia can offer me much better job prospects given my skill set, so the lifestyle for us here is better because I earn more. As we both have strong family ties in each country we'll spend a number of years in each.

 

At the end of the day your question is very broad and all the replies will be coloured by each poster's personal experience. If you give some idea of your own interests and what you enjoy most out of life then it will make it easier to provide advice on which country might be best. Weather, for one, is a big thing. I know people who've spent a week in Ireland and left because it was just too damn cold. I know people who rarely venture outside in summer in Oz because the sun is too strong during daylight hours. Things like that make it hard to say whether the weather is better in one place or the other (although most people will say it is better in Oz, to be fair).

 

Weather is certainly one of the main determining factors, mainly because I have to consider my mom. She gets cold (freezing!) in Cape Town and gets to the point where she can't even feel her fingertips! She is happy to share in the adventure but has begged me not to take her anywhere cold. Unfortunately, Ireland is one such place. But is it AS bad as the tabloids make it out to be? Is it THAT cold, or THAT grey, or THAT rainy? I'm actual quite partial to the cold, and to history and culture, so of the two I'd probably choose Ireland if it was just for me. That said, the numbers (in terms of salary) are a lot less than Aus, and I have no idea whether I could go from sun all day, every day for 8-10 hours a day, to weeks of rain and cloud. I might end up getting depressed, as others have. If it was just me making the move, I'd probably do it anyway and then move again if it didn't work out.

 

I've lived in South Africa (Modderfontein), Ireland (Dublin) and Australia (Perth) - although to be fair I was a child in SA so don't remember it. I have friends in Cape Town though and for some reason in Australia seem to bond more easily with South Africans than Australians - maybe it was just a shared migrant experience.

 

I would suggest you think long and hard about why you want to leave Cape Town as it's a wonderful place in its own right. Most people I know seem to leave due to safety concerns rather than the lifestyle and if that is you then I suspect Australia will meet your needs perfectly as there are a lot of similarities in lifestyle - outdoor living, swimming, beaches, camping, fishing, rugby etc. The seasons will be the 'right way around' for you - Christmas is in the summer - so your family traditions and culture will be impacted less plus you will meet lots of other South Africans in Australia.

 

If however it is a change of lifestyle that you want then Dublin probably beckons, it is a city with tremendous culture and yet you can be on the coast or in the mountains in less than an hour.

 

If you really would be $2k better off in Australia then that is a factor but I would question that and if you are thinking long term don't look at it from the price of renting (which is surprisingly affordable in Australia due to the tax breaks landlords get) but what it would cost to buy - and how far you'd be commuting to work to live there.

 

Wow. Modderfontein! I don't think I've ever been there. Quite a far way from the major cities - must've been quite an adventure I'm looking to leave Cape Town to help build my future, and for the adventure. I'm pretty much earning the most I'm able to earn in Cape Town and there's nowhere to move up from from here. I'm looking for first world digital spaces that have loads of jobs in my industry where I have the freedom to move and grow as I choose. Most important is that I need to start earning and saving in a first world currency. 10 years ago, 1 AUD$ was 4.50 South African Rand. This year, it's R9.50:$1. The US$ is R10, the Euro is R12 and the Pound is R18. At these exchange rates, it's far too expensive to travel anywhere, and any savings I accumulate in Rands would box me into staying right here. The longer I stay, the less I'll own, the slimmer the chances of me ever moving anywhere. The city does happen to be becoming more dangerous in ordinary suburbs, with stabbings, gun hold-ups, and robberies becoming commonplace. I happen to have been held up at gunpoint and made to lie on the floor when I was 13, and my mom was stabbed in a shop we once owned, thrown around in the back, and almost had her throat cut and fingers cut off. But strangely, the Cape Town bubble effect continues, where we don't feel unsafe. And yet, we obviously do subconsciously. I do worry on some level about that, especially as my mom gets older. She loves wildlife and can't even visit some bird spots to take photographs because it's too dangerous. One of the local political parties has recently vowed to start invading and occupying open land. And there are loads more things, if you start adding them up - government corruption (going right up to the president) is rife, and it's no wonder our exchange rate is being crippled across the board.

[Guest spreadingwings]

THIS is a read and a half, including the comments:

 

http://www.harshcritic.com.au/2012/melbourne-is-the-shittest-city-on-earth/