So the mass immigration never really happened.

[paulv]

Ok so in your world, how many Bulgarians and Romanians have the right to move to the UK?

 

That is not how many will move, but how many have the right?

 

I thought we all lived in the same world?

The free movement of goods, money, and people is a two way street. Lots of Brits have moved or invested in countries around the EU and wider world. The agreements we signed allow a reciprocal arrangement.

Whether you or I like this arrangement is immaterial as it's in place and it isn't going anywhere soon.

[Gbye grey sky]

I thought we all lived in the same world?

The free movement of goods, money, and people is a two way street. Lots of Brits have moved or invested in countries around the EU and wider world. The agreements we signed allow a reciprocal arrangement.

Whether you or I like this arrangement is immaterial as it's in place and it isn't going anywhere soon.

 

That sounds like an argument to let market forces manage migration numbers. If everyone comes to the UK it becomes unsustainable so people will go back. It is too imporant an issue IMO to just leave it to market forces.

[paulv]

That sounds like an argument to let market forces manage migration numbers. If everyone comes to the UK it becomes unsustainable so people will go back. It is too imporant an issue IMO to just leave it to market forces.

 

Its not intended as an argument 'for' anything - I'm just stating what is already in place. Just as with the Polish a few years back, there comes a point where work runs out in the UK and many migrants return to their home country, or stop coming in significant numbers. In my local community there are negligible numbers of migrants - there's a long established Bangladeshi community and a smattering of other nationalities, yet UKIP hammered the Tories into third place. Migrants go where there is work, and that means in the UK that larger cities and centres for agriculture take the strain. The showing of UKIP in London clearly demonstrates that anyone with a brain or an education rejects their xenophobia. Maybe bigger investment in the infrastructure of agricultural areas is needed to allay fears and take the strain off.

[Guest]

I thought we all lived in the same world?

The free movement of goods, money, and people is a two way street. Lots of Brits have moved or invested in countries around the EU and wider world. The agreements we signed allow a reciprocal arrangement.

Whether you or I like this arrangement is immaterial as it's in place and it isn't going anywhere soon.

 

You seem to be tap dancing your way around what you have said, maybe you should be a politician?

 

Every Brit is free to move to Romania and every Romanian is free to move to the UK right? So what was incorrect about that earlier number?

 

 

By the way I'm not that fussed whether the uk is in the eu or not, but I can't stand all this leftie spin everywhere.

[paulv]

You seem to be tap dancing your way around what you have said, maybe you should be a politician?

 

Every Brit is free to move to Romania and every Romanian is free to move to the UK right? So what was incorrect about that earlier number?

 

 

By the way I'm not that fussed whether the uk is in the eu or not, but I can't stand all this leftie spin everywhere.

 

Reds under the bed huh? Nice to know it's your dogmatic ideology and disdain of opinions different to yours that drives you.

Me, I have my own opinions that aren't shaped by hatred or envy but by personal experience, facts and evidence.

The pool of people who are willing and able to uproot to another country is limited. I'm sure you could look up what these percentages are if you wanted to back up your opinions with evidence.

[Guest]

Reds under the bed huh? Nice to know it's your dogmatic ideology and disdain of opinions different to yours that drives you.

Me, I have my own opinions that aren't shaped by hatred or envy but by personal experience, facts and evidence.

The pool of people who are willing and able to uproot to another country is limited. I'm sure you could look up what these percentages are if you wanted to back up your opinions with evidence.

 

I have no disdain for any opinions different from my own. I just pointed out you were wrong and you are still tap dancing away. Just because someone isn't going to move country doesn't mean they don't have the right.

 

I have the right to move back to the UK next week if I wanted. Does the fact that i'm not going to mean I don't have the right to do so?

 

Your hatred of UKIP is showing that you can't be objective, you try and spin anything they say into a negative comment.

[Guest Andy]

I have no disdain for any opinions different from my own. I just pointed out you were wrong and you are still tap dancing away. Just because someone isn't going to move country doesn't mean they don't have the right.

 

I have the right to move back to the UK next week if I wanted. Does the fact that i'm not going to mean I don't have the right to do so?

 

Your hatred of UKIP is showing that you can't be objective, you try and spin anything they say into a negative comment.

 

I think people like Paul are trying to come to terms with the fact lots of British citizens have decided enough is enough with he mainstream parties a they never deliver so will look elsewhere and UKIP fits the bill.

[paulv]

I have no disdain for any opinions different from my own. I just pointed out you were wrong and you are still tap dancing away. Just because someone isn't going to move country doesn't mean they don't have the right.

 

I have the right to move back to the UK next week if I wanted. Does the fact that i'm not going to mean I don't have the right to do so?

 

Your hatred of UKIP is showing that you can't be objective, you try and spin anything they say into a negative comment.

 

I don't hate anyone or anything. I pity UKIP and anyone who feels such a far right libertarian party offer anything to working people.

And I've said nothing about them previously except questioning their alarmist tendencies. But that's all they've got and why they are nothing but this years BNP - soon to slither back under the rock they crawled out from

[paulv]

I think people like Paul are trying to come to terms with the fact lots of British citizens have decided enough is enough with he mainstream parties a they never deliver so will look elsewhere and UKIP fits the bill.

 

I don't need to 'come to terms' with facts Andy. But 120ish seats out of a possible 3200 is hardly a revolution is it? It's less than 5% of seats mate.

(and you really need to stop putting yourself forward as the voice of others. They can speak for themselves, as I do)

[Guest Andy]

I don't need to 'come to terms' with facts Andy. But 120ish seats out of a possible 3200 is hardly a revolution is it? It's less than 5% of seats mate.

Yes but that is just the beginning, if labour and the Tories continue to ignore the general public it will soon be more, it maybe a protest vote at he moment but that may well change.

[paulv]

Yes but that is just the beginning, if labour and the Tories continue to ignore the general public it will soon be more, it maybe a protest vote at he moment but that may well change.

 

They said the same about the BNP

[Guest]

I don't need to 'come to terms' with facts Andy. But 120ish seats out of a possible 3200 is hardly a revolution is it? It's less than 5% of seats mate.

(and you really need to stop putting yourself forward as the voice of others. They can speak for themselves, as I do)

 

How many of these 3200 seats did they actually compete? I know in my Borough they had candidates in 4 out of the 14 seats.

 

Also are you comparing them to the BNP because you think their popularity will diminish? or do you think that UKIP are a racist party?

[paulv]

How many of these 3200 seats did they actually compete? I know in my Borough they had candidates in 4 out of the 14 seats.

 

Also are you comparing them to the BNP because you think their popularity will diminish? or do you think that UKIP are a racist party?

 

Both

[Guest]

Both

 

I see. Do you think Australia is a racist country?

[mickyb]

With proper planning and investment, yes.

But the government is attempting to run down and outsource the NHS, privatise schooling and turn it into a profit making arm of business, and in the most recent development privatise child protection services so that large multi nationals can make a profit from taking kids into care, or leaving them at home and at risk.

It suits the purposes of the government to run services down so they can then 'prove' that wholesale reform is needed.

No Tories will rely on the NHS or state schools so they don't give a monkeys.

The investment comes from borrowing . Have you any idea of the costs involved ? You really think it's possible ? Many if not most of the migrants coming are in the low earning low tax bracket .

[Gbye grey sky]

They said the same about the BNP

 

Personally I have little time for UKIP, and many of their 'policies' - such as they can be determined - are cringeworthy, but it has to be said that on the issues of EU bureaucracy, interference and freedom of movement of labour they are pushing on an open door. The main parties have always been on the back foot and, to be frank, in fear of being accused of racism.

 

Those who are fervently pro-European started down the route of a United States of Europe by stealth and they have been rumbled. There are often tensions between state legislatures in the USA but these states were never sovereign countries with different languages.

[Guest]

Personally I have little time for UKIP, and many of their 'policies' - such as they can be determined - are cringeworthy, but it has to be said that on the issues of EU bureaucracy, interference and freedom of movement of labour they are pushing on an open door. The main parties have always been on the back foot and, to be frank, in fear of being accused of racism.

 

Those who are fervently pro-European started down the route of a United States of Europe by stealth and they have been rumbled. There are often tensions between state legislatures in the USA but these states were never sovereign countries with different languages.

 

UKIP are clearly a one issue party, however they are going to have to flesh out some policies to win some seats in the General Election.

I can't wait to see what they are because now they have a growing loyal base in working class areas in the north of England.

 

They are going to end up with policies aimed at traditional labour which will be hilarious as they started out really to aim at disgruntled Tories.

[bunbury61]

UKIP are clearly a one issue party, however they are going to have to flesh out some policies to win some seats in the General Election.

I can't wait to see what they are because now they have a growing loyal base in working class areas in the north of England.

 

They are going to end up with policies aimed at traditional labour which will be hilarious as they started out really to aim at disgruntled Tories.

 

 

the reason why ukip appeal to labour voters , is that the perception , is that the white working class are the ones being shafted ......lowest performing socio economic group in schools now .

when the thousands of immigrants come into this country m they are not encouraged to reside in Kingston on thames are they ?

 

its inner city Sheffield , London , Manchester or Birmingham ....and who speaks up for the working class ?

 

Tony blair ? .......Ed milliband ? .......blair allowed in 3 million non e,u immigrants into this country ,during his time , as an exercise designed to change the voting demographic forever ...thanks Tony, you don't live amongst us , and you don't pay for it either .... ...its ok though ....Ed apologised later for the slight mistake

[legoman]

History has shown those that dismiss extreme party winning votes and seats etc should wake up and smell the roses, yes a protest vote, but if enough get winning votes and seats and the tories are ousted labour become a minority party then still technically a protest vote? Cameron and labour need to take heed of the results, arrogance has a tendency to bite yer back on your own bottom, and successive main parties have shown extraordinary arrogance and condescending attitudes for a long time.

[pablo]

UKIP got 17% of the vote didn't they? 7% less than they got in Council elections last yr?,any working class voter who voted for ukip cant have looked into their ideals,even more right wing than cameron and osbourne,and still dont have an MP in the house of commons afaik,hope it stays that way too

[paulv]

I see. Do you think Australia is a racist country?

 

I know that it has lots of racist elements within it. But a country cannot be racist, although it's citizens can be.

[Guest]

I know that it has lots of racist elements within it. But a country cannot be racist, although it's citizens can be.

 

OK so the Australian Labour and Liberal parties are both racist? That's what ukip want to model their immigration policies on?

[ArthurPendragon]

Heard the figures on that pabs , white European immigrants 7000 pounds more in than out of the economy

uk natives -11000 pounds defecit

non white immigrants - 21,000 pounds defecit

these figures don't include vat and taxes payed through services ect.

if it's a good thing to have migrants to the uk paying in we should welcome them.

But that makes it a bad thing if they're taking out and should we welcome them ?

Can you please provide some data to back this up?

By white, do you mean Germans or do you mean Bosnians, Romanians or Bulgarians?

By non white, do you mean Chinese or Indians or Bangladeshi or Japanese or Pakistani or Africans?

[ArthurPendragon]

What amazes me is how nobody mentions anything about all the indians, pakistani, chinese, africans, etc who live in UK illegally, without documents, getting paid in cash, tax free of course. Or those of them that get government money and free healthcare for their large families and aged parents, who even do not bother to learn basic english? British secular schools run by islamic fanatics and sharia rules went unnoticed for years but the east europeans are the big problem with immigration that UK faces???

 

Regarding Indians, I'm sure they know better English than the rest of the Europe courtesy British Empire.

 

And British Government presents a different picture with regards to Indians, totally at odds with your comments above.

 

According to this report below- "Unemployment rates also vary significantly between ethnic minorities.For example, the ethnic minority group with the lowest unemployment rates is Indians(6.8%)." -

Source: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:/www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/410872/web-poverty-report.pdf

 

Indians have one of the lowest incarceration rate in UK, next only to jews.

Source:www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn04334.pdf‎

 

 

And immigration statistics ( if we exclude the dog whistle politics) show that the illegal overstayers are mostly from the nearby region.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/228967/7197.pdf

India and Britain have a shared history and hence you find them there.

[mickyb]

Can you please provide some data to back this up?

By white, do you mean Germans or do you mean Bosnians, Romanians or Bulgarians?

By non white, do you mean Chinese or Indians or Bangladeshi or Japanese or Pakistani or Africans?

the figures came from BBC radio 4 's program called 'More Or Less '

every week they thoroughly investigate without bias. ( it would appear )

as far as your question to nationalities is be speculating , not too many Germans as they've been doing pretty well , Bosnians ? Not sure if they were allowed in and don't think the uk took too many asylum cases from there.not that many Japanese either I bet .

This weeks show investigated Nigel Farages concerns over living next door to Romanians .