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To sell or rent your property out?


Kellie23

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Hi guys,

 

it would be really useful to know your thoughts or experiences on whether to sell up here in uk and have a lump some to go with and therefore buy quicker in Aus or is it best to rent property out here in uk as a future investment?

 

At at the moment we feel more towards selling as we are worried if we had problem tenants and dealing with them from other side of the world.

 

Would be useful to hear people's views?

 

Also what are the mortgage rates in Australia and what kind of deposits do they like?

 

Thanks

 

kellie

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Guest jaqmaria

If you sell do not transfer money across yet. The rates are edging back in your favour but not there yet. Sell and hold on to your money until the time is right if you must but . I would rent it out through an agent if it was me. Give yourself a cushion and rent first to see if you like it. Patience is the way to go.

 

good luck

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Guest jaqmaria

Meant to say it is quite easy to get mortgages here compared t the iUK rates between 5 and 7 % I think but maybe better deals. First time buyers to get grants still here new build $10000 given. My cousin has just bought after 5 years here they put down $20000 for a $360000 home. Mortgage payments around 475 a week. They manage. Husband on $38 an hour full time 40 hours per week and she works 22 hours a week $20 an hour. You would have to do the maths. It is possible to keep your home their and save here for the deposit and then in time sell and bring your money across . Where there is a will there is a way . I am no expert though and you will need to be in employment to 6 months to a year I think. Others may have better figures and advice though.

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we rent our properties out in the UK through agents and also our friends/ neighbours keep me posted which is good. It does depend on what Visa you are coming here on. We are on a 457 and are half way through our 4 yrs here and atm are in the process of applying for PR. If we get PR we will go back to the UK for a holiday and put our houses up for sale and then have some cash to eventually buy a place over here. If you are on a 457 I would rent out in the UK and definitely go through an agent and ask neighbours / friends to regularily update you on the goings on/ condition of gardens etc of your house. If you like it here and settle then sell in the UK. Don't put all your eggs in one basket just yet.

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We are coming on a 189 PR visa. (Not got it yet just waiting on CO being assigned) if we were to come back to uk we would not come back to this area. If we were to do the renting out scenario how much would you say we would need initially to get by in Aus e.g. Buy a car and deposit for rent etc. I know in long run it's an investment hmmmmmm decisions decisions it's so hard!!!

 

Yes rates were 1.56 to the pound when we were in Aus last year and now it's like 1.89! And rising. What could they get to I wonder? X

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We are coming on a 189 PR visa. (Not got it yet just waiting on CO being assigned) if we were to come back to uk we would not come back to this area. If we were to do the renting out scenario how much would you say we would need initially to get by in Aus e.g. Buy a car and deposit for rent etc. I know in long run it's an investment hmmmmmm decisions decisions it's so hard!!!

 

Yes rates were 1.56 to the pound when we were in Aus last year and now it's like 1.89! And rising. What could they get to I wonder? X

Ahh ok.....I also seen the UK house prices are going up so maybe a good time to sell....?? I would say it depends on if you want a $3000 banger or if you want to buy something decent ish for $10.000.......you will need bond money for a rental ( 4 weeks rent in advance ) so depends on how much properties are where you plan to move to.....have a look on Realestate.com to give you an idea. Are you shipping furniture over ??? you may need to buy some cheap stuff when you 1st arrive or rent a furnished place....

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If you are on a 457 or temporary visa renting out your home makes good sense as any profit is not taxable and many on a 457 intend to return some day. Different if you are going on a permanent visa. You may return but, as you say, not to the same area. As investments go a property on the other side of the world from where you are based is, I suggest, one of the riskier types. I would sell and invest the profit in something less risky myself.

 

Having a house with tenants can be a headache even if you are nearby. You have to really really trust the agent to be looking after your interests.

 

When you do inevitably sell the house you may have to fly back to manage the sale. There will be potential capital gains.

 

We are definitely selling when we go.

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We're hoping to come out on a 457 towards the end of the year and initially assumed rental would be the best option. However, after weighing up the pros and cons and doing the finances, we've come to the conclusion that it's best to sell up. 4 years is a long time to be away and financially it just doesn't make sense. We'd have to pay an extra 1.5% pcm to Nationwide as a "Consent to Let" fee (aka 'dead money'!), our rental income wouldn't cover our mortgage, we'd have the hassle of doing tax returns, worrying about squatters (my BiL has a few houses and has had this problem on two occasions), worrying about unoccupancy (having to budget for (on average) 1.5 months a year of no tenants to cover the mortgage, 1.5 months a year of new inventory fees for new tenants, etc.), worrying about interest rates going up whilst we're away and our fixed rates ending and going onto an expensive base rate, worrying about repairs needing to be done (and the estate agent maybe not using the cheapest person), worrying about what state the house will be in after 4 years - will it need new carpets / decorating etc...? We worked out that the monthly costs associated with letting our house out would be £464.26 pcm (or a whopping £22,284.48 (!!!) for the duration of our absence - assuming we stay out for the full 4 years). This includes:-

 

Consent to Let fee (you MUST tell your lender or you could have your home repossessed!): £162.76pcm

Landlord insurance: £12.50pcm

Estate agent management fee (10% + VAT): £114pcm

Estimated unoccupancy (i.e. enough to cover 1.5 mth's rent per year to cover mortgage): £120pcm

Estimated inventory fees (based on 1.5 tenants per year): £30pcm

Estimated repairs (based on £300 per year - this could well double or triple if unlucky!): £25pcm

 

 

 

Now is a good time to sell and the exchange rate is also climbing up, so your £ is worth more in Australia. We worked out that the price we want for our house (working on a 'break even' worst-case scenario price) will buy us £25k more now than it would have 2 years ago (when we first started looking into this seriously)!

 

I calculated that borrowing $275k over 15 yrs on a 7.5% mortgage (assuming no $10k grant or 30% stamp duty concession as we won't have PR) will cost $2550 pcm. Our rental budget is $2580. So, after initially renting (until we have an idea of how we like it, how my husband's job is going and suss out potential areas) we intend to buy our own property and, if we end up going back after 4 yrs then hopefully we'll get our money back. If not then we can still afford to lose a bit and be no worse off than if we'd rented, since renting is dead money to the tune of $30k per year (so we could essentially lose $30k per yr on our house and still be no worse off).

 

I uploaded a budget to one of the threads recently ("Cost of Making the Move" - sticky). It's a work in progress but gives you a general idea of what to budget for (I got the figures from research online and talking to people so these may differ according to the individual's personal circumstances).

 

Another pro of selling up is that, if we need to go out earlier than anticipated and can't save up enough in time, then we could always 'borrow' some of the house equity to tide us over and pay it back if and when possible, once we're settled. We haven't budgeted for a car although we know we'll more than likely need one. This is because we need to save up £15k just to get us over there for the first few months (see my spreadsheet for a breakdown of initial costs required to make the move), and we intend to rely on public transport until we can either save up enough for an old banger or 'borrow' some house equity to buy one.

 

Obviously, the decision of whether to sell or let is very subjective so what we feel is the right thing for us may not be the right thing for you, and I'm sure some may think us foolish selling up on a 457, but our aim is to get PR and, even if that doesn't happen, 4 (even 2) years is a long time to be away....

 

Hope this helps anyway :-)

 

I-F

Edited by ItchyFeet76
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We're hoping to come out on a 457 towards the end of the year and initially assumed rental would be the best option. However, after weighing up the pros and cons and doing the finances, we've come to the conclusion that it's best to sell up. 4 years is a long time to be away and financially it just doesn't make sense. We'd have to pay an extra 1.5% pcm to Nationwide as a "Consent to Let" fee (aka 'dead money'!), our rental income wouldn't cover our mortgage, we'd have the hassle of doing tax returns, worrying about squatters (my BiL has a few houses and has had this problem on two occasions), worrying about unoccupancy (having to budget for (on average) 1.5 months a year of no tenants to cover the mortgage, 1.5 months a year of new inventory fees for new tenants, etc.), worrying about interest rates going up whilst we're away and our fixed rates ending and going onto an expensive base rate, worrying about repairs needing to be done (and the estate agent maybe not using the cheapest person), worrying about what state the house will be in after 4 years - will it need new carpets / decorating etc...? We worked out that the monthly costs associated with letting our house out would be £464.26 pcm. This includes:-

 

Consent to Let fee (you MUST tell your lender or you could have your home repossessed!): £162.76pcm

Landlord insurance: £12.50pcm

Estate agent management fee (10% + VAT): £114pcm

Estimated unoccupancy (i.e. enough to cover 1.5 mth's rent per year to cover mortgage): £120pcm

Estimated inventory fees (based on 1.5 tenants per year): £30pcm

Estimated repairs (based on £300 per year - this could well double or triple if unlucky!): £25pcm

 

 

 

Now is a good time to sell and the exchange rate is also climbing up, so your £ is worth more in Australia. We worked out that the price we want for our house (working on a 'break even' worst-case scenario price) will buy us £25k more now than it would have 2 years ago (when we first started looking into this seriously)!!!

 

I calculated that borrowing $275k over 15 yrs on a 7.5% mortgage (assuming no $10k grant or 30$ stamp duty concession as we won't have PR) will cost $2550 pcm. Our rental budget is $2580. So, after initially renting (until we have an idea of how we like it, how my husband's job is going and suss out potential areas) we intend to buy our own property and, if we end up going back after 4 yrs then hopefully we'll get our money back. If not then we can still afford to lose a bit and be no worse off than if we'd rented, since renting is dead money to the tune of $30k per year (so we could essentially lose $30k per yr on our house and still be no worse off).

 

I uploaded a budget to one of the threads recently ("Cost of Making the Move" - sticky). It's a work in progress but gives you a general idea of what to budget for (I got the figures from research online and talking to people so these may differ according to the individual's personal circumstances).

 

Another pro of selling up is that, if we need to go out earlier than anticipated and can't save up enough in time, then we could always 'borrow' some of the house equity to tide us over and pay it back if and when possible, once we're settled. We haven't budgeted for a car although we know we'll more than likely need one. This is because we need to save up £15k just to get us over there for the first few months (see my spreadsheet for a breakdown of initial costs required to make the move), and we intend to rely on public transport until we can either save up enough for an old banger or 'borrow' some house equity to buy one.

 

Obviously, the decision of whether to sell or let is very subjective so what we feel is the right thing for us may not be the right thing for you, and I'm sure some may think us foolish selling up on a 457, but our aim is to get PR and, even if that doesn't happen, 4 (even 2) years is a long time to be away....

 

Hope this helps anyway :-)

 

I-F

 

You have really thought through the calculations. Can you buy a house and get a mortgage though in Australia on a temporary visa?

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In response to the OP, there's no "one size fits all" rule - it depends on your property, how easy it might be to rent out (and what you'll get for it), what your mortgage deal is like (and how amenable to letting your lender is, as they vary), what the exchange rate is doing, what house prices are doing, and many other factors

 

We sold our house before coming out here on a 457, principally because it would have been a horror to maintain from the other side of the world (it was 14th century + lots of later additions, I used to put 2000GBP away per year for maintenance and spent every penny, and that was doing lots myself - I work in construction - and getting mates' rates from tradesmen in the village I knew. From over here, managed by an agent, I could have trebled that). But also because we knew we would be here 2-3 years, minimum, and we loved that house. It might sound perverse, but we knew that if we rented it out for that sort of time, when we got it back it would have been in a depressing condition (to us)

 

If we had lived in a standard easy to rent out newish 4 bed house on an estate, it could have been a different story

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Ecellent thread conversation. I can only add that it's all depending on area you live in, new or old home and rural or city property. I was lucky to sell my semi rural house 2 years back before the recent rate cut cycle. I heard through the selling agent that the new owner is stuck trying to find tenants. At the time my mortuage rate was $250 a week in repayments and the new owner wants $350 pw.

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We sold up. Our property settled on the Friday lunchtime and we left the UK on the Monday! We were keen to get over here and start building a new life. We sold our property just at the right time and despite a friend in the UK predicting that property prices were going to double in the next 5 years (I think they must have been living in a different place to the one I was living in!!!) and people saying "are you going to rent your property out just in case you don't like it", we sold up lock, stock and barrel, selling most of our furniture to the lady that bought the property and we took the equity and ran! The property market crashed not long after we left and has continued to struggle. Nearly 7 years later, we could go back and buy our UK property for a third less than we sold it for. Thank goodness we didn't hang around. We were realistic with the price. The estate agent said to me "this is the price to put it on for if you are in no hurry and this is the price to sell it". I chose the quick sale price, which to me was a fair price anyway.

 

I think a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations of what their properties in the UK are worth. My parents were only commenting tonight when they rang from the UK they had been watching the Wanted Down Unders and nearly every episode the families all think their homes are worth far more than they actually are. Generally if a property is priced correctly it will sell. Someone we know over here had a nightmare experience renting their property out in the UK and they decided they had had enough so they put it up for sale, it wouldn't sell, they dropped the price by 10k pounds and it sold straight away. So when poms say to me they can't sell their UK property, I say to them 'do you mean it won't sell or that it won't sell at the price you are asking for it'?

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We sold up. Our property settled on the Friday lunchtime and we left the UK on the Monday! We were keen to get over here and start building a new life. We sold our property just at the right time and despite a friend in the UK predicting that property prices were going to double in the next 5 years (I think they must have been living in a different place to the one I was living in!!!) and people saying "are you going to rent your property out just in case you don't like it", we sold up lock, stock and barrel, selling most of our furniture to the lady that bought the property and we took the equity and ran! The property market crashed not long after we left and has continued to struggle. Nearly 7 years later, we could go back and buy our UK property for a third less than we sold it for. Thank goodness we didn't hang around. We were realistic with the price. The estate agent said to me "this is the price to put it on for if you are in no hurry and this is the price to sell it". I chose the quick sale price, which to me was a fair price anyway.

 

I think a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations of what their properties in the UK are worth. My parents were only commenting tonight when they rang from the UK they had been watching the Wanted Down Unders and nearly every episode the families all think their homes are worth far more than they actually are. Generally if a property is priced correctly it will sell. Someone we know over here had a nightmare experience renting their property out in the UK and they decided they had had enough so they put it up for sale, it wouldn't sell, they dropped the price by 10k pounds and it sold straight away. So when poms say to me they can't sell their UK property, I say to them 'do you mean it won't sell or that it won't sell at the price you are asking for it'?

 

I have to agree with you about the property prices. I had several agents come to value my house and they all said that the house was worth X amount but that didn't mean it would sell for that. I put the house up at a price I thought was reasonable, after looking at others on my close, and had an offer (albeit one I didn't accept) 3 days later. I have now accepted an offer for my house from the original couple who offered me £20k below the asking price and it's only been up for sale for 2 weeks. I'm happy with what I've sold it for, which is more than I bought it for, as others on the close have lost significant amounts on their properties (it's a fairly new estate with a mixed house type) and my neighbours 4 bed detached sold for £35K less then they bought it for. Ok, I have only made a £3k profit which is a non profit when you take in to account what you spend decorating etc and I have marble floors too, but at least it's sold now!

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Hi there GbyeGreySky, yes apparently it is possible to get a home loan. I've enquired from HSBC and Commonwealth Bank. Here's a link from the latter:-

 

https://www.commbank.com.au/personal/international/managing-your-finances/loans.html

 

Ideally, we would gain PR and then buy a house but if not then it's good to know we can still get a home loan :-)

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We sold our family home, as even rented out for 9 months of the year the mortgage wouldn't have been covered but we did keep an investment property, it has been a double edged sword, we rented it out through an agent and were told he had found us a very nice tenant who was a nurse. All went well for a year (or so we thought) and then the tenant stopped playing rent - we were told her boyfriend had lost his job (even though we had no idea there was a boyfriend living there) and they were waiting for housing benefit. We accepted that (it was the GFC and we now that housing benefit claims can take 2-3 months to be paid), we then found out they had got the housing benefit and were still not paying rent.

 

We had to get a solicitor but they then moved out before it went to court - well we were advised by the council they had moved out so we got the locks changed. We were lucky to have incredibily good friends to help us out. It emerged they had been 'tenants from hell' - a one point there had been 7 adults plus children living in the house (a 2-3 bed semi) none of whom worked, and from what was found in the house by my friends, alcohol, drug and crime problems. What I saw of my house was unbeliveable and my friends say I can't begin to imagine what it was like - the garden was full of soiled nappies that had just been thrown there, the bathroom was obviously not used as it was full of rubbish, there was rotting food in the cupboards and filth everywhere. There was multiple urine aoked mattresses and the carpets were soaked with urine too. From what we could see children were being locked up :(

 

The neighbours had been to hell and back and we were told the agent had been seen there partying with them! As we hadn't lived there we didn't know the neighbours so no-one knew what to do.

 

I had to return to the UK to try and sort it out, there is only so much you can do in a couple of weeks though. Another agency took it on but until there was tenants would not be responsible for the renovations needed (although would let tradesmen get the keys from their office which helped). I had to lean on friends again and again (and bearing in mind I'd been away almost as long as I'd known these friends it's incredible what they did) and it financially destroyed us - we had no rent for two years and as the timing couldn't have been worse at one point we were paying a mortgage in both countries and rent - our income didn't meet our outgoings for several months and we lkept getting more and more bills from the UK - every time we had workmen in they used the bathroom and the agent asked us to get cleaners in again, we had a moth infestation....on and on it went. My OH & I both ended up on anti-depressants. We finally get it vaguely fit to rent out again but had to accept a much reduced rent that didn't cover the costs.

 

We were unlucky but from our experience i would say first of all make sure your agent is a member of ARLA http://www.arla.co.uk, secondly do not even consider it if you can't afford to pay the mortgage if you don't have tenants - I know two other people who were left with un-tenanted properties in the UK for long periods from the small number of poms I knew in Perth.

 

The double edged sword is we are now back in the UK living in the house and our return has been made much easier as a result = even if you are on a permanent visa you aren't going to really know for sure if Australia is for you until you have been there at least a couple of years.

Edited by Lady Rainicorn
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We sold up. We were keen to get over here and start building a new life.

 

That's the attitude we're adopting. My sister's friend moved to Perth on a 457 and sold absolutely everything - the house, the cars, all the furniture - leaving with just their luggage. They're into their third year now (not sure if they're going for PR or not) and their attitude was the same - you may as well do it properly if you're going to do it at all. Leaving a house in the UK as a 'safety net' is like only putting 75% of your heart and soul into the move. If there's something to come back to (and it's easy - i.e. just hop on a plane and get your house back) then it may be harder to battle through the bad times in Australia (of which I'm sure there will be plenty) and easier to give up on the potential of making it work.

 

That's my half-hashed theory anyway :yes:

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Hey everyone, thank you for all your input and comments. We have read through all of them and it has helped make up our minds. We were edging more towards selling and now after reading all your comments and first hand experiences we have decided 100% we are going to sell up. You guys are fantastic with facts/figures/ experiences and it has confirmed our thinking. We will have a nice some of money to come out with to start us off and the fact the exchange rate is rising is also great news for us. We live in a 1930's four bed terrace and so continuous maintenance would be one issue for sure. We live in an area near ebbsfleet train station which means you can get to london in 13 mins on the new high speed train link so house prices here just continue to rise and rise. Also not enough houses for the amount of people here so more investors buying property to rent out and therefore pushing prices up. We will sell up and put everything into settling into a new life down under! Really excited. Thanks again PIO xxx

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I am a Landlord in the UK (small time) and have decided to sell up before we move. In the 10 years I've been a landlord I've only had one bad tenant who refused to pay. It took an age to get them out and a small fortune in solicitors. The whole time this was within a mile of where I lived, imagine that at the other side of the world.

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Looking at this ourselves. We had always expected to rent to 'keep options open'. but looking at the finer points and costs. If we can get a good market rate, selling will be better. Again when we get 'permission to let' from the bank (Barclays). it will only last for 2 years, then we would have to be on a BTL mortgage. Yes we are in the South of the UK, so rent will cover payment and leave a little over to fees and vacancy periods (until the BTL rate applies). But all houses that are lived in need maintenance over time. We live in a late eighties 'estate house'. all the heating and cooling, causes cracks over the year between the skirting and wall boards. All things that would need tidying for a sale to get the best price. Can we really trust someone else to ensure it's done correctly to get the best sale price ??? Price may be going up, but only by a few percent. If we have to fly back to sort anything out, that's a good chunk of the market gain lost of airfare.

I also agree with someone elses comments about making a clean break and would you really want to slot back into your old life ????

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it would be really useful to know your thoughts or experiences on whether to sell up here in uk and have a lump some to go with and therefore buy quicker in Aus or is it best to rent property out here in uk as a future investment?

 

When I was a kid our neighbours sold up and emigrated to Aus. They were back about a year later...

 

The problem was, in addition to spending some of their cash while they were in AUS, UK house prices and GPBAUD FX rates had moved; so while they sold a fairly nice house when they left the UK, they moved back into a flat in a horrible (and I do mean, horrible!) area where they lived until they died.

 

I guess the moral is always cover your a$$.

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We sold our family home, as even rented out for 9 months of the year the mortgage wouldn't have been covered but we did keep an investment property, it has been a double edged sword, we rented it out through an agent and were told he had found us a very nice tenant who was a nurse. All went well for a year (or so we thought) and then the tenant stopped playing rent - we were told her boyfriend had lost his job (even though we had no idea there was a boyfriend living there) and they were waiting for housing benefit. We accepted that (it was the GFC and we now that housing benefit claims can take 2-3 months to be paid), we then found out they had got the housing benefit and were still not paying rent.

 

We had to get a solicitor but they then moved out before it went to court - well we were advised by the council they had moved out so we got the locks changed. We were lucky to have incredibily good friends to help us out. It emerged they had been 'tenants from hell' - a one point there had been 7 adults plus children living in the house (a 2-3 bed semi) none of whom worked, and from what was found in the house by my friends, alcohol, drug and crime problems. What I saw of my house was unbeliveable and my friends say I can't begin to imagine what it was like - the garden was full of soiled nappies that had just been thrown there, the bathroom was obviously not used as it was full of rubbish, there was rotting food in the cupboards and filth everywhere. There was multiple urine aoked mattresses and the carpets were soaked with urine too. From what we could see children were being locked up :(

 

The neighbours had been to hell and back and we were told the agent had been seen there partying with them! As we hadn't lived there we didn't know the neighbours so no-one knew what to do.

 

I had to return to the UK to try and sort it out, there is only so much you can do in a couple of weeks though. Another agency took it on but until there was tenants would not be responsible for the renovations needed (although would let tradesmen get the keys from their office which helped). I had to lean on friends again and again (and bearing in mind I'd been away almost as long as I'd known these friends it's incredible what they did) and it financially destroyed us - we had no rent for two years and as the timing couldn't have been worse at one point we were paying a mortgage in both countries and rent - our income didn't meet our outgoings for several months and we lkept getting more and more bills from the UK - every time we had workmen in they used the bathroom and the agent asked us to get cleaners in again, we had a moth infestation....on and on it went. My OH & I both ended up on anti-depressants. We finally get it vaguely fit to rent out again but had to accept a much reduced rent that didn't cover the costs.

 

We were unlucky but from our experience i would say first of all make sure your agent is a member of ARLA http://www.arla.co.uk, secondly do not even consider it if you can't afford to pay the mortgage if you don't have tenants - I know two other people who were left with un-tenanted properties in the UK for long periods from the small number of poms I knew in Perth.

 

The double edged sword is we are now back in the UK living in the house and our return has been made much easier as a result = even if you are on a permanent visa you aren't going to really know for sure if Australia is for you until you have been there at least a couple of years.

 

What an absolute nightmare for you both. Some poms we know over here rented their house out to 'friends' and they found out when they went back for a visit to the UK that they had had their rabbits living in the house. The rabbits had chewed through and scratched everything the carpets, furniture, skirting boards the place was in a right state. They ended up spending 2 solid weeks of their holiday back to the UK sorting the house out, redecorating, maintenance etc and they made the decision there and then to sell it and cut their losses.

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