mcshadders Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 My Wife and I are delighted we have just been offered SS for a 489 visa by Northern Territories and are eager to proceed with our application however there is one issue that concerns us. The reason for my post relates to our daughters who we hope will be incuded on our visa as dependents. My eldest daughter (21) is away at university, works part time, pays her own bills and supports herself. However my youngest (19) is on an apprenticeship training to be a beauty therapist. She attends beauty school one day a week, lives at home, receives less than £100pw and all her living costs are covered by us. The dilema the eldest as a student automatically qualifies however our migration agent has informed us that our youngest might not classed as a dependent and may have to be removed from the application ??? We don't want to go without her and would value any information or advice, especially if you have had a similar experience. McShadders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 From the many similar cases I have read on here your youngest won't be considered dependant - your agent is giving you the right guidance. I'm sure others will be along soon to confirm their experiences. It's always a troublesome age group to include on a visa, lots of people report coming unstuck this way... thing is that at 19 she is strictly speaking an adult, and so dependency has to be very overt and obvious... it's a difficult one for you for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I would say it is touch and go (your youngest is all but working full-time and has her own income): Dependent children A dependent child may be yours, or your partner’s child or step child. ‘Step-child’ means a child of your current partner or your former partner when the child is under 18 years and you have a legal responsibility to care for that child (for example, where your former partner is deceased and you have legal custody of your former partner’s child). You will need to provide a certified copy of the overseas or Australian court order which you have in relation to the child. A child of any age is not considered dependent if he or she is married or in a de facto relationship or is engaged to be married. A child aged 18 years or over will not be considered dependent unless you can show that they are wholly or substantially reliant on you for financial support for their basic needs of food, shelter and clothing. You must also show that you have provided that support for a substantial period and that the child is more reliant on you than on any other person or source. Unless you can provide evidence of this, they should apply separately. You should also be aware that a child aged 25 years or over will generally not be considered dependent. Children of any age who have a total or partial loss of bodily or mental functions which stops them earning a living are regarded as dependent and part of the family unit (whether or not they migrate with you). Give details of such children and whether they are in your care or in an institution. In all cases you should attach evidence of your child’s dependency on you. http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1119.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I also think that your agent is providing good advice. The key to dependency for children over 18 is being in full time education, not how much they earn or how much they are subsidised. If you are not going to go without her, then you have a very tricky decision ahead, as you won't get the definite answer on her until the application is decided which is after you have paid fairly substantial visa fees. i honestly don't know what I would do in your shoes and sorry that is not more helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisforsey Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi, We are in a similar situation, I have managed to get our 19 year old to go back to being a full time student and move back home. We are hoping that we can get him through as dependent. Our agent has advised this is our best chance. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi, We are in a similar situation, I have managed to get our 19 year old to go back to being a full time student and move back home. We are hoping that we can get him through as dependent. Our agent has advised this is our best chance. Chris Would be great if you can come back and let us know how you get on, improves the knowledge banks here! My previous understanding was that "gaps" of up to about six months are ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I think your agent is being honest and realistic with you. I have known some cases where the applicant has provided lost of information - wage slips, rental costs, potential bills etc., in order to show that an older teen/young adult could not manage financially if left behind (I think they've also shown how they have subsidised them currently) ... but a visa even with this information would not be assured and as Rupert says you wouldn't know until after you'd spent a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcshadders Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 It seems crazy she earns pittance definitely not enough to live on and she would not be able to claim benefits. Our agent seems to think we will be offered the option to remove her and proceed with our application. What other way could we get her over to Oz ? Could she apply for a student visa ? if so what costs are we looking at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Student visa costs can be considerable as she'll be an international student, certainly in the many thousands. Even with this route it doesn't lead to an easy PR status. That loophole has all but closed. Many student visa have a no further stay condition, and that's if they'll even grant one. if immigration feel she doesn't have strong enough ties, therefore motivation to go back to the UK on completion they can refuse to grant one from the outset. Other visa options include working holiday, but again, a temp option which is unlikely to lead to PR. Or she will have to apply through skilled migration as you have and qualify for PR in her own right. Obviously with that option she'll need to be qualified, with work experience in her field and on the skills list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 It seems crazy she earns pittance definitely not enough to live on and she would not be able to claim benefits. Our agent seems to think we will be offered the option to remove her and proceed with our application. What other way could we get her over to Oz ? Could she apply for a student visa ? if so what costs are we looking at ? Well we are legal adults at 18 and they have to draw the line, it doesn't seem crazy to me, but certainly unfortunate for people with older teens yes. I know people that fended for themselves at 18 but it does seem to be less common now. Her options are going to be very limited and also temporary, even if she got a student visa it is not sustainable long term and does not typically lead to anything more permanent. Likewise the working holiday visa is temporary and she will have to leave at the end. Your best hope would be that she meets a nice Aussie fella whilst she is here, but that is not the kind of plan I would want to be depending on! I think your decision might need to be much starker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelt28 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi. Get her to enrol in a full time hair and beauty therapy course, there are many available. If she's been living with you the whole time and she's also in a FT course, I think it should be easy to show she's clearly dependant. Enrolments for this academic year are on now, so she could be on a course in a couple if weeks. It may not be exactly the route she wanted to follow but the outcome will be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi. Get her to enrol in a full time hair and beauty therapy course, there are many available. If she's been living with you the whole time and she's also in a FT course, I think it should be easy to show she's clearly dependant. Enrolments for this academic year are on now, so she could be on a course in a couple if weeks. It may not be exactly the route she wanted to follow but the outcome will be the same. Well this might work and it might be the best shot OP has, definitely worth chatting through with their agent. But there is definitely nothing easy about the situation and it might not work, full time education is supposed to be continuous (with acceptable gaps as mentioned earlier) and DIAC are not stupid and will soon work out the chain of events.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelt28 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Yes of course, but if she does a course in the same subject area, it's not like she's suddenly going to learn to be a bricklayer! It's just a different way to gain the qualifications she would have got via an apprenticeship, she can demonstrate that and the timeline falls within normal academic year timelines in the UK. I know any process to do with DIAC isn't easy, but I think, given she's lived with them the whole time and can prove that, and will be in a full time course in her area of training, they should have enough information to prove she's dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Yes of course, but if she does a course in the same subject area, it's not like she's suddenly going to learn to be a bricklayer! It's just a different way to gain the qualifications she would have got via an apprenticeship, she can demonstrate that and the timeline falls within normal academic year timelines in the UK. I know any process to do with DIAC isn't easy, but I think, given she's lived with them the whole time and can prove that, and will be in a full time course in her area of training, they should have enough information to prove she's dependant. As I said, it is worth investigation, but I don't necessarily agree that they "should have enough information to prove she is dependent". There is no "should" about this, there is a lot of uncertainty and I don't want to lull the OP into a false sense of security. A migration agent has already discussed the problem too which indicates there definitely is one! DIAC won't just look to see if she is on a course on the day they decide on the visa, they will look at her history since turning 18 and will spot the gap in full time education, miraculously taken up again just before lodging visa. How long she has been out of education is of course very relevant but OP has not said yet, the shorter the better ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelt28 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I was looking at the quote from the DIAC website, which said that you should be able to show that the child is wholly or substantially dependant upon you for food, shelter etc... And has been so for a significant period of time. From what the OP said, it would appear they can show that. But you're absolutely right, they should enter into this with care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisforsey Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Hi, I said I'd let you know if my 19 year old managed to get approved and I can confirm that we all got our grants today. So he just started a full time course and we had to provide some evidence of dependency and it was very straightforward. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Birdie Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I just want to tell you my story. Before applying for my partner visa I visited this forum many times, I was not going to include my 24 year old daughter on my visa application going by the information on this forum (I thought she had no chance), she works part time and stays at home. My partner in Australia consulted a migration agent who told me to include her on the application. I supplied the basic information, hours worked (25 a week), weekly pay - she was granted a visa along with the rest of the family. I know you shouldn't go against the advice of a migration agent but just wanted to tell you my story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcshadders Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi, just wanted to update on our progress. We decided to continue with our plans to migrate and submitted an application in October, this included both daughters. We submitted additional evidence relating to their courses and Statutory Declarations stating they were fully dependent on us. Today I am pleased to say we received notification that we have all been granted a visa. So glad we stuck in there, its not all cut and dry as we only have a temporary visa at the moment. Not sure how we will proceed when it comes to applying for an 887 visa as the girls will no longer be classed as dependents. But we have a few years to work that out. Australia here we come !!!! Mcshadders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappers2oz Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi, just wanted to update on our progress. We decided to continue with our plans to migrate and submitted an application in October, this included both daughters. We submitted additional evidence relating to their courses and Statutory Declarations stating they were fully dependent on us. Today I am pleased to say we received notification that we have all been granted a visa. So glad we stuck in there, its not all cut and dry as we only have a temporary visa at the moment. Not sure how we will proceed when it comes to applying for an 887 visa as the girls will no longer be classed as dependents. But we have a few years to work that out. Australia here we come !!!! Mcshadders How how wonderful! Congratulations all of you! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afolabi820 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hi, just wanted to update on our progress. We decided to continue with our plans to migrate and submitted an application in October, this included both daughters. We submitted additional evidence relating to their courses and Statutory Declarations stating they were fully dependent on us. Today I am pleased to say we received notification that we have all been granted a visa. So glad we stuck in there, its not all cut and dry as we only have a temporary visa at the moment. Not sure how we will proceed when it comes to applying for an 887 visa as the girls will no longer be classed as dependents. But we have a few years to work that out. Australia here we come !!!! Mcshadders Mcshadders please what are the other evidence you submitted as evidence of dependency apart from the statutory declarations as am in similar situation to submit evidence of dependency for my niece who has been depending on me since the lost of her father (My brother) since 2010 now age 17yrs old and just finish high school seeking admission to University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcshadders Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 For our eldest daughter we just sent details of her university course and student loan along with a declaration that she was fully dependent on us for food shelter and clothing. We also mentioned her part time job (approx 16 hours) but highlighted this was to pay for extra curriculum activities and equipment. The younger daughter was doing an apprenticeship so we included details of the college, her contract of employment showing hourly rate of pay and declaration as above. Hope that helps Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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