Perthbum Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If any prove that this in the nasty party. Disabled families have lost a court challenge to social housing benefit cuts for residents with spare bedrooms in England, Wales and Scotland. No links yet, just announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Update....appeal by the disabled charity against this abhorant desision by the nasty party that will see disabled children forced to share a room with a brother or sister or parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Got a link yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I used to share a room with my sister... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I used to share a room with my sister... Me too, 5 of us and my parents managed in a small 3 bedroom house for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebourvellec Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I used to share a room with my sister... So did I, at one point there sister and I were in my little brothers bedroom, due to my dad taking nearly a year to decorate our room. This tax is only for people that are on housing benifit - not for people that pay rent. It is awful that it is not considering individual circumstances in for some. But point behind it was why should people that are on benefits live in a house bigger than their needs when working people could not afford to do the same. Was never thought through properly and unfair for some genuine family's that do need support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The scenario of a disabled child sharing with an able bodied child is different to two able bodied children sharing,think thats fairly obvious,my gripe with this tax is there is the likes of Leeds where 7 thousand will have to pay the bedroom tax,but there is only 50 homes available to downsize to,leaving 6,950 with a choice of paying it or going private,which will probably cost more to the tax payer The reasoning behind it might be right and fair,but the reality is different,the great disgrace is that ive seen nothing from Labour to say they will overturn it if they regain power,but that doesnt surprise me with them these days. I think i read we pay 22billion a year to private landlords(partly a legacy of thatchers sell off of council properties),surely "if" we do spend that amount it would be better spent on building social housing of various sized properties Right,back to me painting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest16631 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 ........http://news.sky.com/story/1122135/court-challenge-against-bedroom-tax-fails .......one link to the OP...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The scenario of a disabled child sharing with an able bodied child is different to two able bodied children sharing,think thats fairly obvious,my gripe with this tax is there is the likes of Leeds where 7 thousand will have to pay the bedroom tax,but there is only 50 homes available to downsize to,leaving 6,950 with a choice of paying it or going private,which will probably cost more to the tax payerThe reasoning behind it might be right and fair,but the reality is different,the great disgrace is that ive seen nothing from Labour to say they will overturn it if they regain power,but that doesnt surprise me with them these days. I think i read we pay 22billion a year to private landlords(partly a legacy of thatchers sell off of council properties),surely "if" we do spend that amount it would be better spent on building social housing of various sized properties Right,back to me painting! Seems there's a lot more to it than meets the eye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Seems there's a lot more to it than meets the eye? I can see the reasons behind it Cow,im not using it to have a dig at the tories,but making it work "fairly" is difficult without innocent parties suffering,like i say,it seems a no brainer to me,save a large part of 22 billion a year(if thats correct)by building decent affordable social housing,and kick start the building trade,but im no economist or expert obviously,but it "seems" straight forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 ,it seems a no brainer to me,save a large part of 22 billion a year(if thats correct)by building decent affordable social housing,and kick start the building trade,but im no economist or expert obviously,but it "seems" straight forward except it probably isn't. If I understand you right, the government pays about 22 billion to landlords as rent for housing. This implies that the value of the housing involved is probably about 440 billion (as a first estimate, value of houses is about 20x rent). Let's assume the government is slightly better at than private developers and it can do it for 2/3 of the value, it still needs to borrow 300 billion (since that kind of money is not just lying around). Now total UK debt is around 1.4 Trillion, so government building that kind of housing would raise UK debt by over 20%, and I don't think that that is going to happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If any prove that this in the nasty party. Disabled families have lost a court challenge to social housing benefit cuts for residents with spare bedrooms in England, Wales and Scotland. No links yet, just announced. trying to steer away from the politics .......THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF HOUSING .....and when govts of various persuasions , let in every tom , dick and harry , year after year , you are going to have a problem . we are short of 2 million houses ......that isnt camerons fault . We have the bulgarians and rumanians eligible in jan 2014 .......where are they going to live ? The issue you mention above is the headline grabber ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I used to share a room with my sister... We're any of you disabled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 trying to steer away from the politics .......THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF HOUSING .....and when govts of various persuasions , let in every tom , dick and harry , year after year , you are going to have a problem .we are short of 2 million houses ......that isnt camerons fault . We have the bulgarians and rumanians eligible in jan 2014 .......where are they going to live ? The issue you mention above is the headline grabber ... There is enough unoccupied housing to solve the problem but local authorities will not spend on them because they can't be arsed...this is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 We're any of you disabled? Certainly get where you're coming from PB. I suppose its a difficult one eh? A disablement can be a wide spectrum of different things. My sis-in-law was classed as disabled, she had a colostomy and shared a room with her sibling! I don't know the ins and outs of it, only what people post on here? But are they classifying disabled as an umbrella term or are they assessing each case individually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrozierFamily Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If any prove that this in the nasty party. Disabled families have lost a court challenge to social housing benefit cuts for residents with spare bedrooms in England, Wales and Scotland. No links yet, just announced. Sounds absolutely fair to me. Social housing should not be something you are entitled to for life, and you should not be given more than you need. Much like benefits people need to understand that their are not entitled to a free or subsidised life. A lot of us pay our way and cut our cloth according to what we can afford. Not the nasty party at all. The balancing the books, not wasting money party is more appropriate. The scaremongering about disabled children having to share rooms is pathetic. Were does it say that anyone, disabled or not is entitled to their own room or whatever. When I was young I grew up sharing a room with my sister. Did me no harm. News flash for you Perthbum. The gravy train is over mate. Public spending needs to be reduced and the life of riley for many is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Certainly get where you're coming from PB. I suppose its a difficult one eh? A disablement can be a wide spectrum of different things. My sis-in-law was classed as disabled, she had a colostomy and shared a room with her sibling! I don't know the ins and outs of it, only what people post on here? But are they classifying disabled as an umbrella term or are they assessing each case individually? I think a lot of benifits are paid to lazy people who do not want to work but it's a fact that the vast majority of unemployed want to work...unfortunately some parents cannot work because one of their children is disabled and needs 24/7 as I heard a lady on the radio this morning, it is hitting families that really do need help....thank god most of you have healthy children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think a lot of benifits are paid to lazy people who do not want to work but it's a fact that the vast majority of unemployed want to work...unfortunately some parents cannot work because one of their children is disabled and needs 24/7 as I heard a lady on the radio this morning, it is hitting families that really do need help....thank god most of you have healthy children. Appreciated info PB. But are they classing everyone that's "disabled" the same? Or is it anyone that that is disabled be it someone totally dependent on others or a minor disablement? Not trying to diss a minor disability but there's a huge difference. Just interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 except it probably isn't. If I understand you right, the government pays about 22 billion to landlords as rent for housing. This implies that the value of the housing involved is probably about 440 billion (as a first estimate, value of houses is about 20x rent). Let's assume the government is slightly better at than private developers and it can do it for 2/3 of the value, it still needs to borrow 300 billion (since that kind of money is not just lying around). Now total UK debt is around 1.4 Trillion, so government building that kind of housing would raise UK debt by over 20%, and I don't think that that is going to happen... Like i said,im no economist,what you say could well be true,but the borrowing would be an "initial" cost,at least they would be an asset when paid for,and 22 billion a year is going to carry on forever, i also think you could build a hell of a lot of social housing for 22 billion,220 thousand 100k houses for instance,they dont have to be palaces,blocks of one bedroom flats probably less per dwelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Like i said,im no economist,what you say could well be true,but the borrowing would be an "initial" cost,at least they would be an asset when paid for,and 22 billion a year is going to carry on forever, i also think you could build a hell of a lot of social housing for 22 billion ok we build lots of social housing ......sensible .....but what about the schools , hospitals ,roads , police , to support it ? lets put the horse before the cart and get the population down or at least put the brakes on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 ok we build lots of social housing ......sensible .....but what about the schools , hospitals ,roads , police , to support it ? lets put the horse before the cart and get the population down or at least put the brakes on it They are already there,im just talking about taking people out of the hands of private landlords and back under local gvnmt control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 There is enough unoccupied housing to solve the problem but local authorities will not spend on them because they can't be arsed...this is a fact. where PB ?....If they are farming out the recent influx into london ......to places like walsall and stoke, because of lack of housing ....its bonkers if we could keep control of our borders ....the rooms issue , wouldnt be an issue .......because housing the influx is costing a bloody fortune . now ordinary britons are getting squeezed its outrageous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbrodin Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 As a community learning disability nurse in the uk, there are avenues for people to go,down to,appeal against this tax if they can provide evidence that it is detrimental to the person with a disability,,whether it be physical, due to a condition such as autism or challenging behaviour. We have had talks from citizens advice bureau and other agencies who,are supporting these claims with success if the evidence is clear, we are able as ctld's to support with evidence of health needs etc. I guess it just has to be done on an individual basis and not blanket decisions. I am not for the tax or against it as it does not affect me, in terms of social housing, there are places such as Jersey in the Channel Islands where social housing is granted to the appropriate size of the family, then as the family reduces in size with age then they have to move into the appropriate sized property thus freeing up the larger houses for those that need them. This is just a different policy to the uk, and the people there, it is just the way it is. when working through the migration system to try to move to Aus, I can see the benefits of having policies such as skill select, taking from the skills required and not just having open borders, despite making me jump through hoops, immigration is a good thing for any country, some do it better than others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Its good that they can appeal it,but if there are no suitable properties to downsize to it still doesnt help the majority incurring this tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Its good that they can appeal it,but if there are no suitable properties to downsize to it still doesnt help the majority incurring this tax Its Dickensian to me, all and sundry are appealing, appealing this appealing that, appealing loss of benefits because ATOS say they can work when they can't, what has our society come to introducing crackpot ideas that punish the poor, weak and vulnerable. It's thoroughly disgusting. :mad::arghh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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