Buttercup Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Just made me wonder. They are both hideous (IMO), but I find it strange that one attracts more attention than the other??? I know for a fact those poor sheep get sent from Oz on those hideous trips to the Middle East in truly shocking conditions, only to have a just as equal hideous death at the other end with no animal welfare legislation... But now there is this horse meat scandal. I know it's a different country, but I don't get why people are so shocked by it when the whole factory farm/welfare of most farm animals hardly ever make the news and goes on every day??? Do people just accept it, or is ignorance really bliss??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven0161 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 ignorance is really bliss I'm afraid. you walk into a supermarket and see a nicely packaged product in the meat section and often no thought is given to the welfare of the animal. I bet people would have a reality check if the meat aisle had TV's showing the abattoir and end to end process from the meat came from.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scrumpy Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I believe a lot of farmers take great pride in the welfare of there animals, lets not forget a healthy animial is worth far far more. Lets not tar the whole agricultural meat industry with the same brush, Also lets not forget that ultimatley its the consumer thats pushing for cheap food, welfare is dictated by the consumer not the farmer, if you want happy livestock that skip to the slaughter house, you gota pay for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I eat meat but I do think of the welfare of the animals. Because we live in an area with fields etc we see stock and how it is kept. I hate the thought of putting animals in a paddock in Aus with no shelter and shade but its done by lots of farmers, just a little thought for the animal would be nice. I hate the thought of the live sheep export and wish they would ban it and do what we used to do export frozen meat. Also this trade has taken so many jobs from our country areas as well. As for the horse meat, all meat should be inspected before we consume it, if they are substituting and not telling people then obviously there may be other things wrong as well. Very very worriying. I do not buy a lot of frozen meal type stuff but I certainly will not be buying any in the future and everyone else should do the same, its the only way to make them take better precautions. We have listeria problem at the present time from cheeses and a couple of people have died, yes they may have been sick and infirm but its still not acceptable. I am very fussy about what I do buy that is processed, read the lables, where its from etc and make an informed choice. Usually Canada and USA gets the tick for fish products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 I believe a lot of farmers take great pride in the welfare of there animals, lets not forget a healthy animial is worth far far more.Lets not tar the whole agricultural meat industry with the same brush, Also lets not forget that ultimatley its the consumer thats pushing for cheap food, welfare is dictated by the consumer not the farmer, if you want happy livestock that skip to the slaughter house, you gota pay for it Are you serious??? It's the big supermarket chains that 'demand' all these things. if it wasn't there, the consumer would have to make other choices, or simply go without like they did years ago. They set the bar... Re the farmers taking good care of their animals, well I'm sure some do, but the majority of meat produced these days is intensively farmed with little regard for the animal's welfare. I'm sorry, but I blame the supermarkets for this too... they are the one's demanding all this cheap food as they are the ones who set the prices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scrumpy Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Are you serious??? It's the big supermarket chains that 'demand' all these things. if it wasn't there, the consumer would have to make other choices, or simply go without like they did years ago. They set the bar...Re the farmers taking good care of their animals, well I'm sure some do, but the majority of meat produced these days is intensively farmed with little regard for the animal's welfare. I'm sorry, but I blame the supermarkets for this too... they are the one's demanding all this cheap food as they are the ones who set the prices! Are you serious???? If the supermarkets could not sell value/ inferior products they would not stock them, If all the consumer wanted to buy was "HAPPY" meat, the that is exactly what they would sell, supply and demand, the consumer dictates the demand and supermarkets respond with the supply. Supermarkets do have a massive part in this fiasco, but ultimatley its the consumer that is king, all we gotta do is ALL go to our local traditional butcher, buy well managed traceable meat, and guess what it wouldnt be long and thats exactly what the supermarkets would be doing and selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I agree Scrumpy, its us the consumer who hold all the trump cards, not buying supermarket brands is a start, I buy them but my oh will not. He always buys Aus producers products. Problem is that the supermarket brands are taking over and lets face it we do not know where they come from or what is in them, yes we can read the labels but often they are in such small print in the supermarket in a hurry who has a magnifying glass with them. Does it really make that much difference to pay a little more for the good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Just made me wonder. They are both hideous (IMO), but I find it strange that one attracts more attention than the other???I know for a fact those poor sheep get sent from Oz on those hideous trips to the Middle East in truly shocking conditions, only to have a just as equal hideous death at the other end with no animal welfare legislation... But now there is this horse meat scandal. I know it's a different country, but I don't get why people are so shocked by it when the whole factory farm/welfare of most farm animals hardly ever make the news and goes on every day??? Do people just accept it, or is ignorance really bliss??? What would you do with the live sheep trade then buttercup, ban it? Put thousands of people, including farmers, out of a job. Where would the sheep then go? they would be hopefully killed anyway and the meat sold. That's what the animals are bred for, consumption. IMO it's a business like any other and brings much needed jobs and money to Aus as well as feeding and supplying a lot of meat to nations that need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I know we all have to do our bit, but what would people do if it wasn't there in the supermarkets??? How did the option for cheap meat come about??? Did people just suddenly stop buying meat products? This is what I don't get? As for the live sheep export trade in Oz, why can't they just slaughter the sheep in Oz, and send the frozen meat???? That would keep people in jobs wouldn't it? I know some animals are bred for eating, but I strongly disagree they should be treated so cruelly in the process? Is that wrong then? Why do they have to endure that horrid trip to be met with a horrid end prob in an unregulated slaughter house in the Middle East. That is the question. Farmers can still have their jobs, but we all know the live export trade is like something out of the dark ages and avoidable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Loads of information here buttercup. http://www.daff.gov.au/animal-plant-health/welfare/export-trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Umm, interesting read.... It's interesting isn't it, the amount of profit that it generates. I suppose I'm an animal over, and I would question how such things can be regulated and welfare measures implemented. No matter how I look at it, I still see it as a cruel trade. There's an organisation called Compassion in World Farming, you should check that out as there's some interesting stuff on there too. I hear what your saying, but know Australia is way behind us when it comes to animal welfare. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are lots of bad things that happen here too, but in Australia you can still buy puppies and kittens in pet shops, and we all know the origins of how they get there, hence I don't always quite believe all these reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Umm, interesting read....It's interesting isn't it, the amount of profit that it generates. I suppose I'm an animal over, and I would question how such things can be regulated and welfare measures implemented. No matter how I look at it, I still see it as a cruel trade. There's an organisation called Compassion in World Farming, you should check that out as there's some interesting stuff on there too. I hear what your saying, but know Australia is way behind us when it comes to animal welfare. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are lots of bad things that happen here too, but in Australia you can still buy puppies and kittens in pet shops, and we all know the origins of how they get there, hence I don't always quite believe all these reports. Don't get your drift about "and we all know the origins of how they get there". I don't. Can't really see a problem in puppies and kittens in pet shops tbh. Better there than thrown in a river in a bag or just killed and buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Don't get your drift about "and we all know the origins of how they get there". I don't. Can't really see a problem in puppies and kittens in pet shops tbh. Better there than thrown in a river in a bag or just killed and buried. I was shocked when I went to Oz and saw that you can buy a pet like this (which takes a lot of looking after and should not be brought on a whim in a shopping center), and did a bit of research. Turns out puppy farms and the like re cat breeding are alive and well in Oz! Over breeding and little regard, again for the poor animals. Plus you don't get to see the litter with their mother which is never a good thing. Ironically enough a lot of them do end up disregarded or in shelters as people simply realise the commitment involved with looking after a pet like this. That sort of thing was outlawed years ago over here, hence I am sceptical about Oz animal welfare standards. People would be wise to do their homework before walking in to one of those pet shops. The dog shelters were always practically begging people to not buy pets from these places. They often get poorly too as their taken away from their mums too young. It's a sad story, that unfortunatly some people are unaware of.... :sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLSvictory Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Yeah, we actually heard sheep on the 'sheep ship' while on a beach nr Fremantle, WA! Just awful. I don't see the sense in it - a lot of them die en route - and they certainly must suffer - before they even get to the abattoir! What's wrong with killing them locally and sending meat on? Haven't we had refrigeration for a while now? I seriously don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ptp113 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Yeah, we actually heard sheep on the 'sheep ship' while on a beach nr Fremantle, WA! Just awful. I don't see the sense in it - a lot of them die en route - and they certainly must suffer - before they even get to the abattoir! What's wrong with killing them locally and sending meat on? Haven't we had refrigeration for a while now? I seriously don't understand it. Lack of refridgeration infrastructure at the user end. Pretty simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichway1 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I absolutely 100 % agree with what you are saying buttercup and HLSvictory. I posted a thread a while ago about the live cattle export and the horrific cicrumstances in which they were exported and slaughtered. It is absolutely disgusting. I don't see why animals need to be treated cruelly to keep jobs in Australia. It is almost as if people just turn a blind eye, I don't know how sending animals off to such a horrific death can be justified. Re the horse meat, unfortunately I don't know too much about it. I know there is horse meat in virtually everything but the details of how it got there I am sketchy on as I don't watch the stories as it usually just makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Seriously thinking of just becoming a vegetarian these days . Meat just makes me feel sick now, i was never a big meat eater other than chicken but even now im not wanting it to eat it as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichway1 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Me too stacey me too. Id totally be a vegetarian but my mr is a total pain in the arse about and keeps going on about lack of vitamins etc. Its also pretty hard to co ordinate meals etc as I dont know where id get protein from cos I dont like lentils too much. Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Veggie options seem to be a lot better these days than they used to be. I need to look into it a bit further, im really fussy/boring with food. Failing that i might just try eating more butchers meat instead of supermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLSvictory Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Lack of refridgeration infrastructure at the user end. Pretty simple really. I'm pretty sure Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan have freezers..but I've never been. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Even if they haven't - they sure have the capability. There is no reason in the 21st century (anywhere) that live exports should be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Re the refrigeration thing- The Middle East is probably one of the wealthiest nations on the planet! If they can afford to construct multi-million pound buildings and infrastructures, I'm dam sure they could invest in a few fridges! It's a cruel trade that is like something out of the dark ages. No excuses I'm afraid. Australia - you should hang your head in shame at being a part of this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 What would you do with the live sheep trade then buttercup, ban it? Put thousands of people, including farmers, out of a job. Where would the sheep then go? they would be hopefully killed anyway and the meat sold. That's what the animals are bred for, consumption. IMO it's a business like any other and brings much needed jobs and money to Aus as well as feeding and supplying a lot of meat to nations that need it. The opposite is the truth...the live sheep trade has actually destroyed many jobs in Australia because, prior to its introduction, the sheep were processed here in Australian abattoirs. Many of these have now closed and there are now fewer workers in the meat processing industry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Just made me wonder. They are both hideous (IMO), but I find it strange that one attracts more attention than the other??? The live animal export trade has attracted a lot of attention in the media in Australia over the last year. It is being spearheaded by an organisation called Animals Australia which is doing wonderful work in this area. Unfortunately there are big players with vested interests in this trade. I am very pleased that my local Federal Member of Parliament is one who is actively working to stop it but it's going to be a long battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yeah, we actually heard sheep on the 'sheep ship' while on a beach nr Fremantle, WA! Just awful. I don't see the sense in it - a lot of them die en route - and they certainly must suffer - before they even get to the abattoir! What's wrong with killing them locally and sending meat on? Haven't we had refrigeration for a while now? I seriously don't understand it. More to do with the way they want the meat killed at the receiving end. They want to make sure they see it killed that way too. Might say they don't trust us to d the "right thing" by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 More to do with the way they want the meat killed at the receiving end. They want to make sure they see it killed that way too. Might say they don't trust us to d the "right thing" by them. But there are halal certified abattoirs in Australia. Mind you, IMHO, they should be banned too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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