Merxi Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My agent doesn't want to lodge DRC nomination. He said that is risky. I don't understand why. My colleagues got the nomination without trouble. DRC was only one reason why I paid for MA, otherwise I could do it myself. Does anybody have same experience? I saw on this forum so many DRC - nominations and DRC - applications.:arghh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonza2211 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 See my last post in this thread here : http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/166307-phoning-immigration-time-estimate-bad-idea.html#post1936001622 Could be they lost their DRC privileges or have bungled in the past. Good luck mate, fight for your rights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 That is exactly my thought. Ask them if they have lost their drc privileges straight out. If they say no tell them that drc is how you would like to go. Had they told you they were not upto it then you would have gone somewhere else. I have no idea why he would think it was more risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merxi Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 That is exactly my thought. Ask them if they have lost their drc privileges straight out. If they say no tell them that drc is how you would like to go. Had they told you they were not upto it then you would have gone somewhere else. I have no idea why he would think it was more risky. He explain me that if you do ENS - Non DRC that they could ask for some extra documents from your employer but if you submit nomination as DRC that worker can just decided YES (eligible) or NO. They never ask for more documents. I'm not sure if I can believe this. Overwise it would be same risk for all agents. They should know if company has enough documents for positive nomination. Should I try different agent or believe this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 That is rubbish. Plenty of people on the drc thread have been asked for more info if needed. His job is to make sure all the documents they need are there. Sounds like he has cost other people their visas and is now a bit jumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyB Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 That is rubbish. Plenty of people on the drc thread have been asked for more info if needed. His job is to make sure all the documents they need are there. Sounds like he has cost other people their visas and is now a bit jumpy. yes it is rubbish. an agent would know what was needed and if the employer didnt provide he would retain the nomination/application until it was received and then submit drc. these threads where agents are mentioned pulling stunts like this give me the shivers; peoples lives are hanging in the balance. along the same lines, i emailed my ex agent and suggested that perhaps, if adding a drc isnt an option to already submitted nominations, she might like to refund the fee for that part of the process, obviously less the change she paid for express delivery to perth CoE...after all im a reasonable person hahahahaha. i also emailed immigration and asked what the way forward was on a matter such as that. would her drc submitting status be released to me? they replied saying that the question had been passed to a manager. they gave me the usual proforma response regarding timescales. so im not going to hassle further on that score. im interested to see where it will go from here. im quite prepared to make an official complaint to MARA. theres altogether far too much of this going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 This is a difficult one at the moment as the Regulations are completely new and the processing is very slow at the moment due to a backlog of applications and a new electronic system which does not work very well. It is true that if an application is lodged DRC the case officer can decide to refuse the application without asking for further documents. Not all case officers do this, but Immigration has warned that it is possible. The problem at the moment is that the new requirements for the nomination are much more onerous and require more documentation than under the old system. Only time will tell on exactly how much documentation the processing area will insist on and whether there will be any leniency in the early stages. The decision on whether to submit under DRC needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonza2211 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The problem at the moment is that the new requirements for the nomination are much more onerous and require more documentation than under the old system. Only time will tell on exactly how much documentation the processing area will insist on and whether there will be any leniency in the early stages. The decision on whether to submit under DRC needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. Raul, as usually you are telling it like it is. Champion! Mate, could you tell us whether the new requirements for nomination mean that employers need to abide by this for the 457 as well? The reason I ask is my firm will put through a few 457 applications shortly. If they come back with no hiccups I can assume DIAC seems satisfied? I am simply talking about the nomination requirements that have changed. My firm did a massive number of 457's the last 2 years, always successful. Most likely I will be the first ENS *drumroll* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Raul, as usually you are telling it like it is. Champion! Mate, could you tell us whether the new requirements for nomination mean that employers need to abide by this for the 457 as well? The reason I ask is my firm will put through a few 457 applications shortly. If they come back with no hiccups I can assume DIAC seems satisfied? I am simply talking about the nomination requirements that have changed. My firm did a massive number of 457's the last 2 years, always successful. Most likely I will be the first ENS *drumroll* Under the new system, the obligations under a 457 sponsorship and nominating an applicant under the Employer Nomination Scheme are closely linked. If applying under the Temporary Resident Transitional Scheme, the company needs to prove that they have been meeting their training obligation under their 457 sponsorship. The fact that they have been gaining 457 visa approvals has no bearing on ENS as the 457 sponsorship requirements are only looked at during sponsorship stage. The company may have well gained their 457 sponsorship approval 2 or 3 years ago. Therefore, if they nominate someone under ENS, they need to show they have continued to meet their 457 Sponsorship training obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonza2211 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Under the new system, the obligations under a 457 sponsorship and nominating an applicant under the Employer Nomination Scheme are closely linked. If applying under the Temporary Resident Transitional Scheme, the company needs to prove that they have been meeting their training obligation under their 457 sponsorship. Good point. The fact that they have been gaining 457 visa approvals has no bearing on ENS as the 457 sponsorship requirements are only looked at during sponsorship stage. The company may have well gained their 457 sponsorship approval 2 or 3 years ago. Therefore, if they nominate someone under ENS, they need to show they have continued to meet their 457 Sponsorship training obligation. I believe this is the key. Besides the ENS nomination checklist, is there any other comprehensive source of info for what compliance needs to be in place(e.g. how do the define training (size of room, colour of walls, temperature of air, texture of carpet etc) haha. Cheers mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Good point. I believe this is the key. Besides the ENS nomination checklist, is there any other comprehensive source of info for what compliance needs to be in place(e.g. how do the define training (size of room, colour of walls, temperature of air, texture of carpet etc) haha. Cheers mate There are extensive Regulations (specific Ministerial Instrument) and Policy regarding training requirements, as it can be quite a complex area. Basic information here. Meeting training requirements under ENS will also be dependent on what undertaking the company submitted in regards to Australian staff training in their 457 sponsorship application. This is one area, which after having carefully reviewed the new Regulations and Policy, I believe has the potential to cause a lot of problems. I have posted previously that candidate should pay careful attention to Nomination requirements and not take for granted that their employer will meet the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 My agent doesn't want to lodge DRC nomination. He said that is risky. I don't understand why. My colleagues got the nomination without trouble. DRC was only one reason why I paid for MA, otherwise I could do it myself. Does anybody have same experience? I saw on this forum so many DRC - nominations and DRC - applications.:arghh: There is no way to be certain that an application is decision ready at the time of application. All it takes is for the DIAC case officer to request anything further and decision ready fails. For one example, if an applicant was identified by any means other than a current passport when undertaking a medical examination (and it does happen) the case officer will require the applicant to return the the panel doctor and present proper ID and too bad if a Health Undertaking is required due to medical findings. If for ANY reason a case officer is not satisfied that an applicant satisfies an applicable criterion, it is all over. I can think of dozens of ways an application could appear to be decision ready, but not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 According to the leaflet PDF thingy on the immigration website about drc it says that they can ask for more info and it counts as drc still in most cases. It even says that your medicals don't have to be finalised at time of application, and that if they haven't been by the time they come to it then they will recheck one more time before changing it from drc. Are you telling us immigration are lying on this document they have produced? Many people who were drc have been asked for the odd thing. My agent also told me before we lodged that if they needed a new copy of a document that they would ask first and wouldn't just refuse the application. This was confirmed in immigrations pamphlet. This just sounds like a total cop out by an agent who doesn't want to put the work in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonza2211 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 There are extensive Regulations (specific Ministerial Instrument) and Policy regarding training requirements, as it can be quite a complex area. Basic information here. Meeting training requirements under ENS will also be dependent on what undertaking the company submitted in regards to Australian staff training in their 457 sponsorship application. This is one area, which after having carefully reviewed the new Regulations and Policy, I believe has the potential to cause a lot of problems. I have posted previously that candidate should pay careful attention to Nomination requirements and not take for granted that their employer will meet the requirements. Thanks for the link Raul! Further to what you mentioned regarding the "undertaking". Is it safe to say that if the company qualified for the training benchmarks while being "approved" as a 457 sponsor and then CONTINUED to maintain the same level of benchmarks (or meeting requirements in proportion to the growth of the company) they would satisfy the scrutiny. I understand you may not want to comment on this, if so no hard feelings. I am definitely going to scrutinize the file HR creates for my nomination. Unless I feel all corners were covered I would not proceed. Especially if there is the slightest hint of ambiguity. e.g. --Company has a full time trainer : This does not necessarily meet the requirements - Ambiguous --Company has a full time trainer + training it's australian citizens = Possibly meets the training benchmarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Thanks for the link Raul! Further to what you mentioned regarding the "undertaking". Is it safe to say that if the company qualified for the training benchmarks while being "approved" as a 457 sponsor and then CONTINUED to maintain the same level of benchmarks (or meeting requirements in proportion to the growth of the company) they would satisfy the scrutiny. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 According to the leaflet PDF thingy on the immigration website about drc it says that they can ask for more info and it counts as drc still in most cases. This just sounds like a total cop out by an agent who doesn't want to put the work in. I am not defending the Agent as I know nothing of the particular case. Be mindful however, that the same DRC information document you are referring to also states: “It should not be anticipated that the case officer will consult you before making a decision.” And “contact from the case officer after lodgement and in advance of the decision should not be an expectation.” And on the DRC checklist itself While the department may ask you to provide more information in order to determine whether you meet the criteria for approval of the nomination, a decision on the application may be made solely on the information provided at the time of application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/agents/pdf/faq-ens-rsms.pdf It also says that the application should be made in full, and if it is incomplete and they have to ask for additional information then the agent may loose their drc privileges. The agent is being paid to make sure it IS complete and nothing needs to be chased up after. If there are questions such as 'did you show your passport for the medical' then they should be asking that! Why would any agent risk sending in a drc application if there are all these trip hazards? It is not generally hard to find an agent to lodge a drc application, and it sounds like ops agent is not confident in his own skills. In my opinion hd should be making that very clear before agreeing to take on a new client so they can find an agent who does know all the things to check for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It does also say that if the application is counted as incomplete it will be put back into the normal queue. An agent should know their job well enough to make sure it isn't missing anything which they would fail an application on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It does also say that if the application is counted as incomplete it will be put back into the normal queue. An agent should know their job well enough to make sure it isn't missing anything which they would fail an application on. Yes but with this new system it's going to take time to know exactly what is wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Yes but with this new system it's going to take time to know exactly what is wanted. True, but he should have still made it crytal clear before taking on a new client that at the moment he isn't happy submitting drc applications. That is a large part of why many people use an agent for rsms, as he should realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Are you telling us immigration are lying on this document they have produced? DIAC publications are often, inaccurate, misleading or incomplete or all of the above and at best they give simplistic explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 You are an agent Westly, if for whatever reasons you decided that all of your rsms cases should be lodged just normally and not drc, would you advise your clients of that at the quote stage before they actually agreed to use your services? Even if he is just a very caucious person to me it would seem common sense to mention something like that right at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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