reza Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 How have the 23,000 allocated places been distributed between the Australian states and territories? We have approached all the states and territories in Australia, and asked them to confirm the number of sponsorship grants they have been allocated for 2010/11, so we can see how the overall quota of 23,000 is distributed across the different states and territories in Australia. In addition to this, we have asked each state and territory to confirm how many sponsorship applications they have approved, which have yet to be finalised by DIAC, in order to gain a better insight into how close each area is to filling their quota for this year and how close DIAC are to meeting the planning level for state sponsored visas. As of 21 October, 2010, we have received the following responses from the Australian States and Territories: Queensland Queensland have not been forthcoming with precise figures, as they’ve said their planning levels form part of their migration plan, which has not yet been signed off. However, a representative for the State said he "does not believe that the proposed planning levels for Queensland are likely to cause a problem". Tasmania Tasmania have confirmed that, pending the federal government’s approval, they will be allocated 700 sponsorship places, made up of 460 listed occupations and 240 off-list places. To date, the number of granted and on-hand applications totals 220, leaving a total of 480 places available for sponsorship in the 2010/11 allocation. New South Wales New South Wales have referred us to their website, and declined to comment on what they state is part of their forthcoming migration plan. Australian Capital Territory (ACT) The Australian Capital Territory (ACT) have confirmed that they have been allocated 1740 spaces, which they’ve said equates to roughly 720 sponsorship places available, after the partners and dependants for applicants have been taken into account. They have confirmed that they have 690 applications either pending or already granted (but not yet finalised by DIAC), meaning their quota of 720 spaces for 2010/11 is essentially already full. The ACT has already taken the decision that any future application for sponsorship under their migration plan will be processed by DIAC in the 2011/12 year. South Australia UPDATED 21/10/2010: South Australia has declined to provide information on their allocated quota or the numbers of visa applications they have already nominated for sponsorship which have yet to be finalised. However, they have confirmed that certain occupations have already reached their quota number and are no longer available for sponsorship in the 2010/11 program year. Check the South Australia website for the most recent updates on which occupations will not be considered for the current year. As the different states in Australia respond, this blog entry will be updated. - Matt Parker is a caseworker for the Australian Visa Bureau. Visa Bureau Blog - Visas and Immigration to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and the United States Regards:hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surhythms Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Australian Capital Territory (ACT) The Australian Capital Territory (ACT) have confirmed that they have been allocated 1740 spaces, which they’ve said equates to roughly 720 sponsorship places available, after the partners and dependants for applicants have been taken into account. They have confirmed that they have 690 applications either pending or already granted (but not yet finalised by DIAC), meaning their quota of 720 spaces for 2010/11 is essentially already full. The ACT has already taken the decision that any future application for sponsorship under their migration plan will be processed by DIAC in the 2011/12 year. Hi Reza Thanks for the information. Im a little bit confused as regards ACT's numbers. I got onto my agent last week and she confirmed : "The ACT has 1750 places available under the new SMP, of this number 100 will be taken for off list nominations. There are already 700 Nominations approved which will also be deducted from this number. Once the quotas are filled by visa grants it is not yet know what will happen to the applications which have not been finalized in that Financial Year i.e. whether they will be queued and carried forward to the next financial year or caped and ceased" She also advised us that as we havent lodged our app with the DIAC we fall into the remainder 950 spaces that they have. Its sounds a little different to what you have been told. I would presume if the ACT's spaces which equate to 720 sponsorships available but are made up of 1740 places this could mean that only people who have lodged their visa application will be processed this year and we would have to wait until 2011/2012 and re-do all of our applications (ACS expires in Feb 2011). Cheers Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VickyMel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thanks Reza that is really interesting information - its a pity only Taz and ACT really responded. But it does look as if Taz and ACT are using previous SS people to slot into the SMPs where possible first if they have already allocated places on the SMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VickyMel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi Suzanne I wonder if it means that of those 1740 places ACT have to use one for each of the dependents. So if a couple apply that is 2 places gone. So 100+700 nominations - plus their families = its full relating to dependents. No sure if this is the case just wondering if that might explain the difference VickyMel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surhythms Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi Suzanne I wonder if it means that of those 1740 places ACT have to use one for each of the dependents. So if a couple apply that is 2 places gone. So 100+700 nominations - plus their families = its full relating to dependents. No sure if this is the case just wondering if that might explain the difference VickyMel Hi Vickymel It makes sense alright its just a bit confusing considering our agent told us there were 1750 sponsorships available in total for the SMP: 700 SS already granted and lodged with the DIAC 100 offlists 950 places available for this program year. It gave us a bit of hope and we thought we might get one of the 950 places but considering what Reza just told us it looks as if the 700 wont include us. Ah well we just have wait wait wait - shouldnt be long now :arghh: Cheers Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VickyMel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi Vickymel It makes sense alright its just a bit confusing considering our agent told us there were 1750 sponsorships available in total for the SMP: 700 SS already granted and lodged with the DIAC 100 offlists 950 places available for this program year. It gave us a bit of hope and we thought we might get one of the 950 places but considering what Reza just told us it looks as if the 700 wont include us. Ah well we just have wait wait wait - shouldnt be long now :arghh: Cheers Suzanne Thats the way I have always read it previously - really hope it is not long - hopefully with all this rumour it means that it really is close now - hang on in there :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 How have the 23,000 allocated places been distributed between the Australian states and territories? We have approached all the states and territories in Australia, and asked them to confirm the number of sponsorship grants they have been allocated for 2010/11, so we can see how the overall quota of 23,000 is distributed across the different states and territories in Australia. In addition to this, we have asked each state and territory to confirm how many sponsorship applications they have approved, which have yet to be finalised by DIAC, in order to gain a better insight into how close each area is to filling their quota for this year and how close DIAC are to meeting the planning level for state sponsored visas. As of 21 October, 2010, we have received the following responses from the Australian States and Territories: Queensland Queensland have not been forthcoming with precise figures, as they’ve said their planning levels form part of their migration plan, which has not yet been signed off. However, a representative for the State said he "does not believe that the proposed planning levels for Queensland are likely to cause a problem". Tasmania Tasmania have confirmed that, pending the federal government’s approval, they will be allocated 700 sponsorship places, made up of 460 listed occupations and 240 off-list places. To date, the number of granted and on-hand applications totals 220, leaving a total of 480 places available for sponsorship in the 2010/11 allocation. New South Wales New South Wales have referred us to their website, and declined to comment on what they state is part of their forthcoming migration plan. Australian Capital Territory (ACT) The Australian Capital Territory (ACT) have confirmed that they have been allocated 1740 spaces, which they’ve said equates to roughly 720 sponsorship places available, after the partners and dependants for applicants have been taken into account. They have confirmed that they have 690 applications either pending or already granted (but not yet finalised by DIAC), meaning their quota of 720 spaces for 2010/11 is essentially already full. The ACT has already taken the decision that any future application for sponsorship under their migration plan will be processed by DIAC in the 2011/12 year. South Australia UPDATED 21/10/2010: South Australia has declined to provide information on their allocated quota or the numbers of visa applications they have already nominated for sponsorship which have yet to be finalised. However, they have confirmed that certain occupations have already reached their quota number and are no longer available for sponsorship in the 2010/11 program year. Check the South Australia website for the most recent updates on which occupations will not be considered for the current year. As the different states in Australia respond, this blog entry will be updated. - Matt Parker is a caseworker for the Australian Visa Bureau. Visa Bureau Blog - Visas and Immigration to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and the United States Regards:hug: My Friend REZA Well done, this post clearly shows that ACT is trying hard to add all of its sponsored applicants in SMP ..... i wish all other states do the same .... my best wishes and positive hopes for all of you ... i am really lucky that i am sponsored by ACT and i m hoping that i will get my slot in SMP .... ACT has done a great job already. they asked for reconfirmation then they THANKED by replying you ... this is the thing we need from DIAC ... if we are not getting our visa then at least our state is treating us well, we are getting MORAL SUPPORT from our sponsored state thats the main thing ..... I wish All of you, better luck, better future and above all Fair treatment and justice from DIAC ..... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Australian Capital Territory (ACT) The Australian Capital Territory (ACT) have confirmed that they have been allocated 1740 spaces, which they’ve said equates to roughly 720 sponsorship places available, after the partners and dependants for applicants have been taken into account. They have confirmed that they have 690 applications either pending or already granted (but not yet finalised by DIAC), meaning their quota of 720 spaces for 2010/11 is essentially already full. The ACT has already taken the decision that any future application for sponsorship under their migration plan will be processed by DIAC in the 2011/12 year. Hi Reza Thanks for the information. Im a little bit confused as regards ACT's numbers. I got onto my agent last week and she confirmed : "The ACT has 1750 places available under the new SMP, of this number 100 will be taken for off list nominations. There are already 700 Nominations approved which will also be deducted from this number. Once the quotas are filled by visa grants it is not yet know what will happen to the applications which have not been finalized in that Financial Year i.e. whether they will be queued and carried forward to the next financial year or caped and ceased" She also advised us that as we havent lodged our app with the DIAC we fall into the remainder 950 spaces that they have. Its sounds a little different to what you have been told. I would presume if the ACT's spaces which equate to 720 sponsorships available but are made up of 1740 places this could mean that only people who have lodged their visa application will be processed this year and we would have to wait until 2011/2012 and re-do all of our applications (ACS expires in Feb 2011). Cheers Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi Reza Thanks for the information. Im a little bit confused as regards ACT's numbers. I got onto my agent last week and she confirmed : "The ACT has 1750 places available under the new SMP, of this number 100 will be taken for off list nominations. There are already 700 Nominations approved which will also be deducted from this number. Once the quotas are filled by visa grants it is not yet know what will happen to the applications which have not been finalized in that Financial Year i.e. whether they will be queued and carried forward to the next financial year or caped and ceased" She also advised us that as we havent lodged our app with the DIAC we fall into the remainder 950 spaces that they have. Its sounds a little different to what you have been told. I would presume if the ACT's spaces which equate to 720 sponsorships available but are made up of 1740 places this could mean that only people who have lodged their visa application will be processed this year and we would have to wait until 2011/2012 and re-do all of our applications (ACS expires in Feb 2011). Cheers Suzanne Hi All The above was posted by Surrhythms, not by me. I was trying to reply to Suzanne whilst trying to do 5 other things at the same time. Predictably, I got into a muddle and pressed "edit" on Suzanne's post instead of pressing "quote." Suzanne - please accept my sincere and unreserved apology for getting this wrong. Hopefully you and everyone else will be able to understand how and why I made the mistake. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JK2510 Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 When George Lombard gave the numbers for SMP places and 175 independent visas,there were more spaces for the independent visas. Am I correct there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Australian Capital Territory (ACT) The Australian Capital Territory (ACT) have confirmed that they have been allocated 1740 spaces, which they’ve said equates to roughly 720 sponsorship places available, after the partners and dependants for applicants have been taken into account. They have confirmed that they have 690 applications either pending or already granted (but not yet finalised by DIAC), meaning their quota of 720 spaces for 2010/11 is essentially already full. The ACT has already taken the decision that any future application for sponsorship under their migration plan will be processed by DIAC in the 2011/12 year. Hi Reza Thanks for the information. Im a little bit confused as regards ACT's numbers. I got onto my agent last week and she confirmed : "The ACT has 1750 places available under the new SMP, of this number 100 will be taken for off list nominations. There are already 700 Nominations approved which will also be deducted from this number. Once the quotas are filled by visa grants it is not yet know what will happen to the applications which have not been finalized in that Financial Year i.e. whether they will be queued and carried forward to the next financial year or caped and ceased" She also advised us that as we havent lodged our app with the DIAC we fall into the remainder 950 spaces that they have. Its sounds a little different to what you have been told. I would presume if the ACT's spaces which equate to 720 sponsorships available but are made up of 1740 places this could mean that only people who have lodged their visa application will be processed this year and we would have to wait until 2011/2012 and re-do all of our applications (ACS expires in Feb 2011). Cheers Suzanne Hi Suzanne I've got it right this time, I hope..... What I wanted to say to you in the first place is that you should trust yourself, your agent and Julianne O'Brien in the ACT. What the three of you said last week makes sense. What Visa Bureau are saying today does not make sense. So please trust your own advisers in this, not a migration agency whom you are not even using, hon. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surhythms Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi All The above was posted by Surrhythms, not by me. I was trying to reply to Suzanne whilst trying to do 5 other things at the same time. Predictably, I got into a muddle and pressed "edit" on Suzanne's post instead of pressing "quote." Suzanne - please accept my sincere and unreserved apology for getting this wrong. Hopefully you and everyone else will be able to understand how and why I made the mistake. Cheers Gill No problem Gill :biggrin: Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surhythms Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Hi All The above was posted by Surrhythms, not by me. I was trying to reply to Suzanne whilst trying to do 5 other things at the same time. Predictably, I got into a muddle and pressed "edit" on Suzanne's post instead of pressing "quote." Suzanne - please accept my sincere and unreserved apology for getting this wrong. Hopefully you and everyone else will be able to understand how and why I made the mistake. Cheers Gill No problem Gill :biggrin: Suzanne And this just happened to me Gill so apologies from me ! SUzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VickyMel Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 My Friend REZA Well done, this post clearly shows that ACT is trying hard to add all of its sponsored applicants in SMP ..... i wish all other states do the same .... my best wishes and positive hopes for all of you ... i am really lucky that i am sponsored by ACT and i m hoping that i will get my slot in SMP .... ACT has done a great job already. they asked for reconfirmation then they THANKED by replying you ... this is the thing we need from DIAC ... if we are not getting our visa then at least our state is treating us well, we are getting MORAL SUPPORT from our sponsored state thats the main thing ..... I have been very impressed with ACT's conduct and style throughout all this. I met Julianne O'Brien a while back and she came across so well - I almost wanted to switch to ACT just because of her! Its a pity we can't vote her is as head of DIAC or even Minister of Immigration. She could have my vote anyday. I imagine she would be strict and stick to the rules (as it should be) but she would be efficient, tell us how it is, keep us updated, and you would know where you stood - and we could all do with that right now. VickyMel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 That's good info. It looks like there will be pent up SMP applications that will basically clog most states' pipelines perhaps until June 2011 and the new management year. So the thinking now should be 457 or ENS/RSMS. At least, 457 until the SMP comes through. Either way, employer sponsors are going to be hot property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Thanks for posting this info Reza. I can't help but wonder though if VisaBureau have got this a bit confused for the ACT. George posted the following on another thread the other week The starting point is the table of planning levels at Migration Program Statistics - Statistics - Publications, Research & Statistics . There will be 61,700 general skilled migration visa grants in 2010/11. Of these, 23,000 are allocated to state sponsored migration and 35,200 to skilled independent applicants. A further 3,500 people are anticipated under the family sponsored stream. This says there will be 61,700 GSM visa grants in 2010/11 and of these 23,000 allocated to the states. It doesn't make sense for the ACT to say they have 1750 places (info provided by Suzanne's agent) and then say but these spaces will be taken up by partners & dependents. Have DIAC ever done this before, i always thought when they talked GSM numbers for the year they talked about the main applicant only and not the partners & dependents, as this could change during the visa process. I hope it's not the case anyway and I do hope the 900 or so spaces for the ACT are still available. Our new baby is due in January, hope there will be a space for him / her !!!:twitcy: Cheers Claire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matjones Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Have DIAC ever done this before, i always thought when they talked GSM numbers for the year they talked about the main applicant only and not the partners & dependents, as this could change during the visa process. As far as I am aware the numbers set by DIAC have always been the total number of grants, including all family members, and not just the primary applicant. Therefore ACT saying that 750 applications are taking up all 1750 places is not unreasonable. On average each application would be 2.3 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matjones Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I can't help but wonder though if VisaBureau have got this a bit confused for the ACT. Looks like they are only posting what they were told by ACT. Doesn't appear to be any speculation on their part. I see no reason to doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 As far as I am aware the numbers set by DIAC have always been the total number of grants, including all family members, and not just the primary applicant. Therefore ACT saying that 750 applications are taking up all 1750 places is not unreasonable. On average each application would be 2.3 people. Thanks Matt for clearing this up. I didn't know that, suppose it makes more sense now. ta Claire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Looks like they are only posting what they were told by ACT. Doesn't appear to be any speculation on their part. I see no reason to doubt it. Yes I suppose, just seems different from what Suzanne's agent told her. I don't know anyone will know for sure 100% unless it comes from the ACT or DIAC directly. Ta Claire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 The people from the ACT are quite open about having a quota of 1700 people to sponsor - which will come to about 700 files - and for the benefit of those wanting to do these calculations, this table might assist: STATE Populations 2009 ACT 354,900 NSW 7,191,500 NT 227,700 QLD 4,473,000 SA 1,633,900 TAS 505.400 VIC 5,496,400 WA 2,270,300 (source: http://www.wilmap.com.au/ausfacts.html) Doing the "math" on the understanding that NSW won't take anywhere near one third of the 23000 (based on a total population of 22 million), I think that WA, SA and Qld will have about 15,000 divided between them. I have heard that WA already has 9000 applicants in its queue. So possibly - just possibly - a state migration plan (Schedule 4) application will take two to three years through any one of those states, unless demand subsides. Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Doing the "math" on the understanding that NSW won't take anywhere near one third of the 23000 (based on a total population of 22 million), I think that WA, SA and Qld will have about 15,000 divided between them. I have heard that WA already has 9000 applicants in its queue. So possibly - just possibly - a state migration plan (Schedule 4) application will take two to three years through any one of those states, unless demand subsides. Cheers, George Lombard Hi George Many thanks for the information above. You are saying that a Cat 4 application might still take some time to be decided. How likely is it that Bowen will try to finish what Evans started, by reviving the idea of the Cap & Kill Bill 2010? I suspect that if Evans were still the Minister, the cogs in his brain would turning thus: 1. Let the 2010-2011 SMPs go ahead in their final draft formats for the time being, just to get the SMPs launched. 2. Revive the Cap & Kill Bill and get that enacted into law somehow. 3. Wait for the new Points Test. 4. Once the new Points Test has been introduced, use the new Cap & Kill legislation to kill off every application that does not have SMP sponsorship for 2010-2011. 5. Then tell the killed-off visa applicants that they can use their refunds if they want to, with which to make fresh applications for GSM visas, provided that:- a) they are able to meet the new Points test; and b) they have SS (and therefore SMP sponsorship) before they can submit fresh applications for sc 176 visas. Being as brutal as I describe above would actually get the GSM pipeline under control within a couple of years, which would negate the need to have people faffing around forever. Also Kruno Kukoc looks like a bit of a Chief Architect to me and he is undoubtedly very brainy. The scenario that I describe above is actually one of elegant simplicity, even if it looks a bit complicated a first sight, but making it work would require resurrection of the Cap & Kill proposals, I reckon. Mr Kukoc is more than clever enough to think it up, too. How likely do you reckon that it all is, please? heers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahulpatel1969 Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Hi George Many thanks for the information above. You are saying that a Cat 4 application might still take some time to be decided. How likely is it that Bowen will try to finish what Evans started, by reviving the idea of the Cap & Kill Bill 2010? I suspect that if Evans were still the Minister, the cogs in his brain would turning thus: 1. Let the 2010-2011 SMPs go ahead in their final draft formats for the time being, just to get the SMPs launched. 2. Revive the Cap & Kill Bill and get that enacted into law somehow. 3. Wait for the new Points Test. 4. Once the new Points Test has been introduced, use the new Cap & Kill legislation to kill off every application that does not have SMP sponsorship for 2010-2011. 5. Then tell the killed-off visa applicants that they can use their refunds if they want to, with which to make fresh applications for GSM visas, provided that:- a) they are able to meet the new Points test; and b) they have SS (and therefore SMP sponsorship) before they can submit fresh applications for sc 176 visas. Being as brutal as I describe above would actually get the GSM pipeline under control within a couple of years, which would negate the need to have people faffing around forever. Also Kruno Kukoc looks like a bit of a Chief Architect to me and he is undoubtedly very brainy. The scenario that I describe above is actually one of elegant simplicity, even if it looks a bit complicated a first sight, but making it work would require resurrection of the Cap & Kill proposals, I reckon. Mr Kukoc is more than clever enough to think it up, too. How likely do you reckon that it all is, please? heers Gill Do they really need those powers. They already have the powers to cap and cease general category of applicants till a certain date. Why not they process all the applicants till cat 3 to a certain date say December 2009 and cap and cease all the cat 4 applicants before that date. Where do they need the new law. Only a few category of applications like 496 are immune to cap and cease. If I am not mistaken the rest can be capped and ceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahulpatel1969 Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Do they really need those powers. They already have the powers to cap and cease general category of applicants till a certain date. Why not they process all the applicants till cat 3 to a certain date say December 2009 and cap and cease all the cat 4 applicants before that date. Where do they need the new law. Only a few category of applications like 496 are immune to cap and cease. If I am not mistaken the rest can be capped and ceased. Hi George Many thanks for the information above. You are saying that a Cat 4 application might still take some time to be decided. How likely is it that Bowen will try to finish what Evans started, by reviving the idea of the Cap & Kill Bill 2010? I suspect that if Evans were still the Minister, the cogs in his brain would turning thus: 1. Let the 2010-2011 SMPs go ahead in their final draft formats for the time being, just to get the SMPs launched. 2. Revive the Cap & Kill Bill and get that enacted into law somehow. 3. Wait for the new Points Test. 4. Once the new Points Test has been introduced, use the new Cap & Kill legislation to kill off every application that does not have SMP sponsorship for 2010-2011. 5. Then tell the killed-off visa applicants that they can use their refunds if they want to, with which to make fresh applications for GSM visas, provided that:- a) they are able to meet the new Points test; and b) they have SS (and therefore SMP sponsorship) before they can submit fresh applications for sc 176 visas. Being as brutal as I describe above would actually get the GSM pipeline under control within a couple of years, which would negate the need to have people faffing around forever. Also Kruno Kukoc looks like a bit of a Chief Architect to me and he is undoubtedly very brainy. The scenario that I describe above is actually one of elegant simplicity, even if it looks a bit complicated a first sight, but making it work would require resurrection of the Cap & Kill proposals, I reckon. Mr Kukoc is more than clever enough to think it up, too. How likely do you reckon that it all is, please? heers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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