Perception, bias and the facts.

[Guest chris955]

Something I have noticed since being on here is that their appears to be 2 very different sides to how people perceive both the UK and Australia, sometimes it is hard to believe they are talking about the same places. Some seem to see the UK as going down the drain, no-one has a job and everything is very expensive, the facts don't seem to back up that view but that doesn't appear to stop people believing it.

Some view living in this country as a living hell and others as a paradise. Obviously for the right person with the right attitude both countries are great places to live with many opportunities.

My personal opinion after reading many posts is that those in the 'I love it here' camp seem to want to see only the bad side of the UK and seem unable or unwilling to see the wood for the trees.

Those firmly in the 'What the hell have I done' camp equally cannot see the good things here OR they don't think they are worth moving halfway around the world for.

Opinions are all well and good and we are repeatedly told that everyone is entitled to them and they are valid as they are the view of that individual, my argument is that if I said in my opinion there are no snakes in Australia that clearly is not a valid opinion, facts show otherwise. When confronted by something equally untrue and I or someone else questions it we are told it is that persons opinion.

My point is that surely an opinion must be to some degree factual, is that unreasonable ?

[Guest proud2beaussie]

 

My point is that surely an opinion must be to some degree factual,

Yes but in the sense that it is obviously a fact that someone has those opinions,for instance,the view expressed recently that people moving to Australia will struggle to make friends,now it's obviously a fact that the person who posted that comment feels that way because that is what they have experienced,they wouldn't have any reason to make it up,but it's equally not a "fact" in the true sense of the word because it isn't necessarily true for EVERYONE who moves here,it will be true for some,maybe many,but not everyone,and the same can be said for just about every other issue,there are facts and there are opinions,facts are things like "it isn't sunny in Australia EVERY day",Australia is a long way from the UK etc,opinions are just that,opinions,they are not invalid as a means of discussing what it is like to move here but people need to be able to distinguish between the two,of course there is some factual base to opinions but only in so far that people who post their opinions obviously really believe what they are writing and are not just typing words for the fun of it.

[sleepywombat]

OMG - how old and tired is this debate...!!!!

 

My personal opinion is that there is no one single 'best' country in the world... Just the one that a person feels right in and calls home.

 

We (as people) are very quick to judge and seem to forget that we are lucky to have the freedom with which to chose where we live. Many don't have this luxury.

 

Both the UK and Australia are great countries in their own right and are only comparible as they are both attached to planet Earth ... They are as different as hot chips are to pizza!!!!

 

Now I've itched that scratch - I'll head back to sleep again zzzzz!!

 

Cx

[Guest proud2beaussie]

The other point I would make is does it really matter what I,or anyone else,thinks? If I think that Australia is the best country in the world and I say so does it really make any difference to someone who disagrees with me? would someone who disagrees with me even bother to pay any attention to what I think? if they are unhappy and want to be back in the UK will my opinion make any difference?

and if someone thinks the UK is "going down the tube" does that matter to someone who thinks that it's the best country? I doubt it.

I can post heaps of reasons why I think Australia is the best place in the world to live but for someone who is struggling to find a job,or a reasonably priced house,or a good school then I could post the same things hundreds of times but it probably wouldn't make one jot of difference to them,but that doesn't invalidate my opinions,it just means that my opinions don't really count for much except for what they are-opinions.

[Guest famousfive]

I have noticed the exact same thing.I am returning and do so with my eyes wide open.I don't see why people constantly feel the need to point out my folly.I return laden with info from family and friends on the ground and as such know the story warts and all.On the other hand when I moved here years ago for the first time many of my expectations were based on the opinion of total strangers who had moved before me.

And of course opinions are a personal interpretation of life based on very specific personal circumstances.In my opinion it was very cold last night,but of course this opinion is based on the fact I left the upstairs windows open and didn't realise it until bedtime.This does not make my opinion invalid but certainly make it useless if I had given this opinion in answer to someone asking how cold it was.So yes,even in the simple things in life facts are more reliable[it was in fact 12c,not exactly igloo temps].

But facts alone don't tell the whole story.I return to a very low employment area in rural area but if anyone asked me if it was impossible to get work there my opinion would be no as I have never been without work there and neither have my family.

 

I think facts and opinions work hand in hand really and both need to be considered when making major life changes.

 

Another example-where we live in oz is also high unemployment,lots of retirees and great lifestyle or so say the facts.For us it has proven to be easy to get work,lots of young families live around us and we don't find the lifestyle that great really.

 

Hard to tell with that example if facts or opinion are right because both seem to contradict.

[Guest guest36762]

Something I have noticed since being on here is that their appears to be 2 very different sides to how people perceive both the UK and Australia, sometimes it is hard to believe they are talking about the same places. Some seem to see the UK as going down the drain, no-one has a job and everything is very expensive, the facts don't seem to back up that view but that doesn't appear to stop people believing it.

Some view living in this country as a living hell and others as a paradise. Obviously for the right person with the right attitude both countries are great places to live with many opportunities.

My personal opinion after reading many posts is that those in the 'I love it here' camp seem to want to see only the bad side of the UK and seem unable or unwilling to see the wood for the trees.

Those firmly in the 'What the hell have I done' camp equally cannot see the good things here OR they don't think they are worth moving halfway around the world for.

Opinions are all well and good and we are repeatedly told that everyone is entitled to them and they are valid as they are the view of that individual, my argument is that if I said in my opinion there are no snakes in Australia that clearly is not a valid opinion, facts show otherwise. When confronted by something equally untrue and I or someone else questions it we are told it is that persons opinion.

My point is that surely an opinion must be to some degree factual, is that unreasonable ?

 

Hi Chris

just playing devil's advocate here, 2 things

1. your signature is an opinion, to some degree factual? ummmm, in the same way as saying oranges are the best fruit, much better than apples

2. the majority of your posts 'talk up' the UK which, by all accounts is in for a rough ride due to profligate labour spending, and funnily enough you are returning there next year. It could be said that you are justifying your move in the same way that the sun sea and surf gang talk up Australia

Dom

[Guest chris955]

Olly, can I ask why you removed your post ? It was a good post :smile:

Wombat, this isn't actually about which country is best, it is about posting things that could possibly influence others when there seems to be no basis in fact.

Nigel, I don't mean opinions that express a persons viewpoint like the examples you stated, I am talking about when people say ' there's no work in the UK' or 'everything is really expensive' Both statements are not factual, it isn't a matter of how people perceive things because research shows us the statements aren't factual.

If I say the weather in Brisbane doesn't suit my kids that could be seen as valid but if I said the weather here never allows us to do anything obviously that isn't factual.

[Guest chris955]

Yes I agree with both points, my signature is light hearted but I myself believe it, at least of the countries I have visited.

Our return is for very specific reasons and don't include the weather or even the economy. The 'problems' the UK is experiencing will as always pass in time.

I should reiterate this is NOT about which country is best, that really is irrelevant.

 

 

Hi Chris

just playing devil's advocate here, 2 things

1. your signature is an opinion, to some degree factual? ummmm, in the same way as saying oranges are the best fruit, much better than apples

2. the majority of your posts 'talk up' the UK which, by all accounts is in for a rough ride due to profligate labour spending, and funnily enough you are returning there next year. It could be said that you are justifying your move in the same way that the sun sea and surf gang talk up Australia

Dom

[Guest proud2beaussie]

I am talking about when people say ' there's no work in the UK' or 'everything is really expensive' Both statements are not factual, it isn't a matter of how people perceive things because research shows us the statements aren't factual.

Chris I do understand what you are saying but whilst it may not be "factual" to say that "there's no work in the UK' but that is only true to the extent that

the labour force figures say otherwise,but if someone is struggling to find work,having applied for 50 jobs ,about to lose their house etc you can quote statistics as much as you like to that person but it wouldn't make them feel better would it.and the same is true when discussing things about Australia,for someone here in Australia struggling to make friends and feeling lonely I can tell them as often as I like that "it's not a FACT that EVERYONE will struggle to make friends" but it doesn't help them either! it's all down to perception and peoples perception is coloured by their life experience.

Edited to add: Even "facts" can be influenced by perception,as an example,it's a well known fact that you are much more likely to be killed in a road accident than you are in a commercial airliner accident,that's borne out by statistics,but try telling that to someone who lost a family member in a plane crash,I'm

sure they would tell you where to put your statistics!

Cheers

Nigel

[olly]

Olly, can I ask why you removed your post ? It was a good post :smile:

Wombat, this isn't actually about which country is best, it is about posting things that could possibly influence others when there seems to be no basis in fact.

Nigel, I don't mean opinions that express a persons viewpoint like the examples you stated, I am talking about when people say ' there's no work in the UK' or 'everything is really expensive' Both statements are not factual, it isn't a matter of how people perceive things because research shows us the statements aren't factual.

If I say the weather in Brisbane doesn't suit my kids that could be seen as valid but if I said the weather here never allows us to do anything obviously that isn't factual.

 

I didn't want it to sound too repetitive - yes more facts would be good, and less sweeping statements about both places.

[Guest chris955]

Yes I agree even more the second time :biggrin:

[Petals]

On a forum facts have to be kept to the minimum as if we all put every fact or surmised fact no-one would read the post they would all fall asleep.

[Guest guest36762]

On a forum facts have to be kept to the minimum as if we all put every fact or surmised fact no-one would read the post they would all fall asleep.

 

try telling that to Nige

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Perhaps if people on PIO didn't make inaccurate,outlandish statements as 'facts'then there would be less aggravation,sorry if my preference for dealing with reality rather than half truths is boring,but that's the way it is.

[Guest guest36762]

Perhaps if people on PIO didn't make inaccurate,outlandish statements as 'facts'then there would be less aggravation,sorry if my preference for dealing with reality rather than half truths is boring,but that's the way it is.

 

:yes:

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Well Dom if you find it boring then you can always just not bother to read my posts but I'm not changing my opinions just because of it.

[Guest guest36762]

Well Dom if you find it boring then you can always just not bother to read my posts but I'm not changing my opinions just because of it.

 

oh come on Nige I was just pulling your leg!

[Guest guest30038]

My personal opinion after reading many posts is that those in the 'I love it here' camp seem to want to see only the bad side of the UK and seem unable or unwilling to see the wood for the trees.

 

 

Well, there ya go again Chris.............forming an opinion based on what, pray tell? If you carry on like this, I may go back to calling you Boa :tongue:

 

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there are many folk and many posts from the "I love it here" camp, that constantly affirm that the UK will always be "home" or that they're "proud to be British" or that although they love it here, they see good and bad in both places. Myself, Jim Balmforth, and Nigel to name but three although I could name many more.

 

I've said it before, and I'll re-iterate, many of those who love it here, if not most, do NOT denigrate their country of birth. They have nothing to prove...........they're quite happy being here and simply prefer their Oz life to their UK life. It's those who return who somehow seem that they have to affirm their decision by knocking OZ and Australians and, as this thread affirms, attempt to tell those who like it here that both the UK and Oz are not how they perceive it.

 

I would hazard a gues that if you re-think as to who you are targeting here, you may well realsie that most of the negative posts about the UK come from those still there, living in less that desirable areas who simply want a new start in life, away from their experiences.

 

I mean? Get real? All those who stay are all wearing rose tinted specs, or, as you put it, "can't see the wood for the trees".............sorry............"unwilling to see the wood for the trees" Are you really implying that folk who have the nouse to go through the visa process are in denial and refuse to accept that they've got it all wrong?

 

Thank God that I've got a bit more faith in my fellow man than you have.

 

kev

[Guest Aldo]

It's those who return who somehow seem that they have to affirm their decision by knocking OZ and Australians and, as this thread affirms, attempt to tell those who like it here that both the UK and Oz are not how they perceive it.

 

Is that perception, bias or fact?

 

[Conniebygaslight]

The other point I would make is does it really matter what I,or anyone else,thinks? If I think that Australia is the best country in the world and I say so does it really make any difference to someone who disagrees with me? would someone who disagrees with me even bother to pay any attention to what I think? if they are unhappy and want to be back in the UK will my opinion make any difference?

and if someone thinks the UK is "going down the tube" does that matter to someone who thinks that it's the best country? I doubt it.

I can post heaps of reasons why I think Australia is the best place in the world to live but for someone who is struggling to find a job,or a reasonably priced house,or a good school then I could post the same things hundreds of times but it probably wouldn't make one jot of difference to them,but that doesn't invalidate my opinions,it just means that my opinions don't really count for much except for what they are-opinions.

 

Absolutely Nigel- I know you think Oz is the best place in the world and you know I don't-Don't think either of us cares less do we...?

 

I think Chris is refering to posters who aren't as tolerant of other peoples opinions-(although I was of the opinion there was a bit of a love fest going on from both sides now..?):laugh:

[Guest guest36762]

Well, there ya go again Chris.............forming an opinion based on what, pray tell? If you carry on like this, I may go back to calling you Boa :tongue:

 

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there are many folk and many posts from the "I love it here" camp, that constantly affirm that the UK will always be "home" or that they're "proud to be British" or that although they love it here, they see good and bad in both places. Myself, Jim Balmforth, and Nigel to name but three although I could name many more.

 

I've said it before, and I'll re-iterate, many of those who love it here, if not most, do NOT denigrate their country of birth. They have nothing to prove...........they're quite happy being here and simply prefer their Oz life to their UK life. It's those who return who somehow seem that they have to affirm their decision by knocking OZ and Australians and, as this thread affirms, attempt to tell those who like it here that both the UK and Oz are not how they perceive it.

 

I would hazard a gues that if you re-think as to who you are targeting here, you may well realsie that most of the negative posts about the UK come from those still there, living in less that desirable areas who simply want a new start in life, away from their experiences.

 

I mean? Get real? All those who stay are all wearing rose tinted specs, or, as you put it, "can't see the wood for the trees".............sorry............"unwilling to see the wood for the trees" Are you really implying that folk who have the nouse to go through the visa process are in denial and refuse to accept that they've got it all wrong?

 

Thank God that I've got a bit more faith in my fellow man than you have.

 

kev

 

that was the gospel according to kev

Amen

Right, now that's put the world to rights, shall we just go down the boozer?

[mrsindecision]

not sure what I am getting into here - but we all know we are talking about perception and context. Our own individual perception is based on our life context - where we have come from, how we think etc.

 

That's why despite reading other people's experiences we have to try if for ourselves.

 

I have just left what could be described as an idyllic lifestyle, beautiful home good friends, great income in Australia. To return to good friends, nice home, employment and educational opportunities in UK.

 

Which is better - depends on what is important to you. Some aspects of life in Oz were better - however many more for me and mine are better here. Even within my family we disagree about some things - I am enjoying friendships and friendliness of UK people - good conversation etc. My husband couldn't care less. My daughter is enjoying the kids she is meeting at school but hates the run down buildings and litter etc. My son is having great time ( still in oz) doing some amazing research at uni - but is desperate for a good pint, witty intelligent humour good laugh and amazing gigs and festivals.

 

As for me I look at my Mum and my MIL and see the sheer joy on their faces to having us back and I am filled with love for them and the real Joy of family ( even when they moan and fuss they are old and wont be with us for long).

 

England is beautiful so is Australia - do what you have to do and enjoy the journey.

[Conniebygaslight]

not sure what I am getting into here - but we all know we are talking about perception and context. Our own individual perception is based on our life context - where we have come from, how we think etc.

 

That's why despite reading other people's experiences we have to try if for ourselves.

 

I have just left what could be described as an idyllic lifestyle, beautiful home good friends, great income in Australia. To return to good friends, nice home, employment and educational opportunities in UK.

 

Which is better - depends on what is important to you. Some aspects of life in Oz were better - however many more for me and mine are better here. Even within my family we disagree about some things - I am enjoying friendships and friendliness of UK people - good conversation etc. My husband couldn't care less. My daughter is enjoying the kids she is meeting at school but hates the run down buildings and litter etc. My son is having great time ( still in oz) doing some amazing research at uni - but is desperate for a good pint, witty intelligent humour good laugh and amazing gigs and festivals.

 

As for me I look at my Mum and my MIL and see the sheer joy on their faces to having us back and I am filled with love for them and the real Joy of family ( even when they moan and fuss they are old and wont be with us for long).

 

England is beautiful so is Australia - do what you have to do and enjoy the journey.

 

 

How long were you in Oz for Mrs I.? sorry if I've asked you this before! we are leaving in 5 weeks and have been here since only January- we are hearing so many changes at home (personal) people moving, people becoming ill divorces,marriages etc-I'm amazed how things change in such little time.

[mrsindecision]

hi we were in Qld for three years now were back feels like 5 minutes

[Conniebygaslight]

hi we were in Qld for three years now were back feels like 5 minutes

 

Really? oh that's great- we are sure we are making the right decision but cannot believe the news we have been hearing over he last few weeks...makes us want to get back even more to be honest.:smile: