Guest JoeyLowtown Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Firstly thanks to all who read this, here is my story.......... I am a 24 year old fully qualified electrician, I hold a JIB gold card graded as approved. I have seven years experience and currently work self-employed. I am NICIEC fully approved also. People have always told me to go and work in Oz and the idea has always appealed to me. My personal cirumstances have changed a lot over the past 12mths. A long term relationship has broken down, family are now spread all over the UK and as we all know, work in England is thin on the ground. I travelled the US this year following the break up of my relationship. I met the most amazing Aussie girl. She is a school teacher from Brisbane and we hit it off instantly. We are in constant contact and very keen to get to know each other further and see if we have a future. I have very few ties to the UK these days, no children or mortgage. It seemed ideal to come to Oz to work for a while and see how things develop. I thought I'd be killing two birds with the one stone, working in Aus as I'd always wanted and being with this girl. I now unfortunately realise the issue is slightly more difficult. I dont want to apply for permanent migration without spending a significant period of time within the country, travelling a little and allowing our relationship to progress to a level significant enough. I am aware of the working holiday visa, but doubt this would allow me to work within my trade, due to VETASSES etc. Also my fear is getting out there and doing casual work for a year, building an amazing relationship and then having to return to the UK after 12mths, start a whole new process and not see her for ages, thus damaging the relationship. Are there other VISA options I can explore under the skilled migrant schemes to allow me to get more time over there to assess my situation and then apply for permanent migration whilst there, circumstances permitting? Any advice on sponsor companies etc or just general next steps would be greatly appreciated, the sooner I get the ball rolling the better. I have contacted immigration agents via email, but they just want to take my money to process applications, not give me any real world advice regarding my situation. My points score was 140, so should be no probs there! Thanks a million, Joey:jimlad: PS. I posted this in welcome also. Apologies but Im unsure the exact area I should post this in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Joey, There are temporary skilled migrant visas, but they are more for people who do not immediately qualify for the permanent one. They are as hard to get and take as long to process so you might as well just go for a permanent one. Without being too long winded here, my feeling is that you could apply for the PR skilled migrant and whilst you are waiting for it, go over on the WHV. I am afraid I cannot comment on working as an electrician in Australia. The danger with going over on a WHV without lodging the PR is that you might decided you want PR then find that you don't meet the recent work experience requirements after a year on the WHV. Having said that, if things go well with the Australian girl, you could also be applying for a defacto down the line. You might also find an employer willing to sponsor you, but I feel lodging the PR visa before you go is a safer (but more expensive) route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Firstly thanks to all who read this, here is my story.......... I am a 24 year old fully qualified electrician, I hold a JIB gold card graded as approved. I have seven years experience and currently work self-employed. I am NICIEC fully approved also. People have always told me to go and work in Oz and the idea has always appealed to me. My personal cirumstances have changed a lot over the past 12mths. A long term relationship has broken down, family are now spread all over the UK and as we all know, work in England is thin on the ground. I travelled the US this year following the break up of my relationship. I met the most amazing Aussie girl. She is a school teacher from Brisbane and we hit it off instantly. We are in constant contact and very keen to get to know each other further and see if we have a future. I have very few ties to the UK these days, no children or mortgage. It seemed ideal to come to Oz to work for a while and see how things develop. I thought I'd be killing two birds with the one stone, working in Aus as I'd always wanted and being with this girl. I now unfortunately realise the issue is slightly more difficult. I dont want to apply for permanent migration without spending a significant period of time within the country, travelling a little and allowing our relationship to progress to a level significant enough. I am aware of the working holiday visa, but doubt this would allow me to work within my trade, due to VETASSES etc. Also my fear is getting out there and doing casual work for a year, building an amazing relationship and then having to return to the UK after 12mths, start a whole new process and not see her for ages, thus damaging the relationship. Are there other VISA options I can explore under the skilled migrant schemes to allow me to get more time over there to assess my situation and then apply for permanent migration whilst there, circumstances permitting? Any advice on sponsor companies etc or just general next steps would be greatly appreciated, the sooner I get the ball rolling the better. I have contacted immigration agents via email, but they just want to take my money to process applications, not give me any real world advice regarding my situation. My points score was 140, so should be no probs there! Thanks a million, Joey:jimlad: PS. I posted this in welcome also. Apologies but Im unsure the exact area I should post this in! Chris Mac (Moderator) is a a Pom sparky working over East.... He is best to advise you on the working ethics here. I am sure he will pick this up and suitably guide you. Sorry cant be more help my husband is in the trade but an Australian so its very different. Wishing you much success in your relationship and welcome to Australia 2010:wubclub: Susiex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Joey, There're issues you need to address for working in Australia starting with VETASSESS as you're aware of and it is going to be having an assessment in the first place and then getting licensed in Australia, that varying state by state and what you'll have to do in regard to an Australian Regulations course and then working under supervision will be determined by a state authority on the basis of your trade assessment. You'll need to do that whether you want to work in your trade under a WHV, getting an Employer sponsored visa or applying for a permanent visa. You are in a Catch 22 situation for any employer sponsored visa is going to tie you down to an employer/location and restrict your travel. With a WHV, if you are prepared to fo three months specific regional work in the first 12 months, you'll then be eligible to apply for a second WHV of another 12 months so that'll be one way of doing some travel, picking up casual work and seeing how the relationship goes over a longer period. At some stage you may find yourself with the opportunity for an employer sponsorship either as a temporary 457 visa which can lead to an Employer Sponsored PR visa and in having done your Vetassess you'll be ready to continue on and get licensing. The current Immigration focus is on employer sponsorship so as people are immigrating to a job rather than in the hope of finding work and thus except for a number of select occupations, getting independent GSM visas can be a few years or longer, perhaps even an indefinite prospect under current conditions. At your age and situation, I'd be doing the Vetassess and then getting a WHV or getting the WHV and then getting assessment out here which could be cheaper. There're a number of changes coming in for the new year in respect to some visas and so for what you may face after a WHV, suggest you peruse What's New? Recent Changes in General Skilled Migration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spuds Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Joey, cannot help to much but where you thinking of going to in Oz mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nm123 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I would go on WHV if I were you. Without sounding completely unromantic, you may find that you will feel differently about this girl when you see her in Australia. Sometimes when you see people again but not in the original context in which you met, it can feel, erm, different. I backpacked round the world a few years back and made some wicked friends all over the place, and we've met up since - some I get on with like I've known them all my life, but with others it became startlingly apparent that travelling was what we had in common, and not much else really provided any glue to a friendship - despite numerous enthusiasitc meet-up emails. My own immigration situation is that I'm going out to Oz on a 457 for 2 years. If work want to extend that and I want to extend it, we'll look at it later, but that employer sponsored permanent residence seems to be the easiest. That route might be available to you too but perhaps the WHV will be the quickest and cheapest way to get out there. Gives you an "in" without too much committment, and without negating your chances of staying later down the line. However, there's a lot of folk on here that know far more about PR than I do... I guess what I'm trying to say is don't count your chooks before they've hatched. You might get there and hate her or Australia and it would be a shame to have spent a fortune getting yourself in PR immigration hell when you don't really need to. Good luck with whatever you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoeyLowtown Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Cheers for the replies people. It's starting to make more sense now. I am fully aware that things may very well not work out for a number of reasons. ie. The relationship not working (my have a habit of not doing lol), I may not like Australia, I may be too home sick any one of a number of things could indeed happen. That is precisely my reason for seeking this advice from you kind, knowledgable people. Would it be a fair conclusion to think that my best option for the moment would be to plan a year long trip on a WHV, possibly with doing my VETASSESS first (although am I right in thinking it's in the region of £1000). "With a WHV, if you are prepared to fo three months specific regional work in the first 12 months, you'll then be eligible to apply for a second WHV of another 12 months " this sounds an attractive option, however what exactly is specific regional work? After this period, if the relationship is seeming like a viable option, then there would be the option of a de facto? If I was already VETASSESSED I could then work as a sparky right? The girl is not my only reason for this, it is something that I have pondered for a good while. The work situation in England is grim and I am just feeling ready for major life change! If you get sponsorship, do you have to stay in that area or job indefinately? Thanks a million people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Glad it is starting to make sense. Again I cannot comment on what is required to work as an electrician, but I am aware that there are strict rules about it that you would need to look into. On your other questions, yes you can get a second WHV if you carry out three months of regional work. People often talk about fruit picking, although it is not just that but I believe it is biased towards farming type work. The rules as to what work is eligible are pretty strict so if it comes to that make sure you take care to take the right kind of work and in the right location. A defacto relationship is one that involves 12 months of living together. If the defacto does not work out but you do deide you would like to stay in Australia anyway then you could either apply for skilled migrant or get employer sponsorship. I don't know that employer sponsorship for permanent residency is very common in the trades. If you got temporary employer sponsorship then yes you are tied to that employer. If you think you could end up going for skilled independent migration then you need to make sure whilst you are on the WHV's that you keep working in your nominated occupation as there is a minimum requirement of spending 12 of the previous 24 months working in it. I suggested earlier you apply before you go to make sure, but on reflection that is an expensive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Joey, I've seen a few posts re people doing the Vetassess and without having checked the cost, there's often comment about the expense of it. The Vetassess people actually fly people from the licensing authorities [maybe training organisations too] in Australia to UK etc. and all that cost is built into the fees I'd expect, and hence the reason I've suggested you might look at the cost for doing it here as I've also seen posts about it supposedly being cheaper here. You should be able to find fees info @ VETASSESS - Vocational Education Training and Assessment Services and Trades Recognition Australia - Home You'll find information @ Working Holiday Visa (Subclass 417) on regional [determined by postcodes, and essentially most areas away from population centres] and specific work, forestry, fishing/pearling, mining and comstruction industries all included now in addition to a wide range of agricultural work. If you find a sponsor and get an ES visa, the conditions do vary from the temporary 457 where you need to maintain sponsorship but you can move from employer to employer as long as the new employer is approved and has approval for the same type of position, so there is some possibility of changing employer/location but it is not designed so much for moving about and if you used it that way, you might find a potential employer in finding that out about you might decide you're not for them. The ES PR visas, ENS and RSMS have different rules and you're not tied to an employer with an ENS other than to extent of any contract you may have signed and its legal enforcability but no impact on PR and you can move on. The RSMS in being regional does have a DIAC requirement for regional working to be fulfilled as part of PR conditions. As I said in previous post, the biggest issue with working in trade and moving about is that the two will not go together for there is a significant work stability onus re getting licensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hello Joey Welcome to Poms in Oz and by the time you read this it will probably be welcome to 2010 too! I don't know where the assumption has come from that you "must" go through a Vetassess skills assessment but I can assure you that the assumption is mistaken and wrong. The holders of Working Holiday subclass 417 Visas are treated as visitors to Australia, not as temporary skilled migrants, therefore they do not require any skills, let alone pre-migration skills assessments, as a glance at the DIAC website confirms: Visa Options - Working Holiday - Visas & Immigration It is important not to muddle the various sections of the DIAC website, and the pages of it, with one another. It is also important not to get into a muddle with the TRA website. A subclass 417 WH visa is not a subclass 457 employer sponsored temporary visa and the UK is not one of the 10 nominated countries involved with the new TradeSET skills scheme for prospective subclass 457 visa applicants: Applicants - FAQs i have to have a 457 skills assessment to apply for a 457 visa In your case the answer to the question above is NO. Vetassess only get involved if you want to apply for a General Skilled Migration visa, which at this stage you don't. ************************************************************ For the purposes of this example, let us assume that you have obtained your WH Visa - via applying for it on line in accordance with the instructions and requirements stated for this visa on the DIAC website - and that you have now rocked up in QLD. You will need to be licenced in order to work as an electrician in QLD, for obvious reasons of Health & Safety. Additionally, you will need to know the specific electrical regulations for QLD etc, so you will need to undergo Australian training and to pass Australian exams. Please see the following links: http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/news-gossip-chat/74803-electrical-licence-queensland-just-got-mine.html Department of Industrial Relations Business and Occupational Licensing Postal Address: PO Box 820 Lutwyche Qld 4030 Telephone: 61 7 3247 4711 or 1300 650 662 Email: safetyinfo@dir.qld.gov.au Website: www.dir.qld.gov.au/electricalsafety/ Please click on the link for the QLD licencing authority website above. There are two trade association for sparkies in QLD, being NECA and the Master Builders Association of QLD respectively. The details of both are below: National Electrical and Communications Association (NECA) Queensland Chapter PO Box 2070 Milton QLD 4064 Telephone:1300 794 846 Fax:1300 369 279 Email: necaq@neca.asn.au Website: www.neca.asn.au Queensland Master Builders 417 Wickham Terrace Brisbane Qld 4000 Phone: 61 7 3225 6530 Fax: 61 7 3225 6544 Email: ask@masterbuilders.asn.au Website: www.masterbuilders.asn.au Between the 3 official organisations and Chris Mac from Poms in Oz, you can undoubtedly discover exactly what you would need to do, how long it would take and what it would cost. No law says that you must work as a sparky in Oz anyway. You can become a sheep shearer if you prefer. You would probably be well-advised to do casual work wherever and whenever it crops up whilst you undertake the business of becoming a licenced sparky in QLD if you want to. Chris Mac now lives in Caloundra, which is about an hour north of Brisbane by car. He is an immensely nice man and I am 100% sure that once you get to QLD he would be keen to meet up with you and to offer you any help that he can. God knows, Chris went through enough of a saga in order to get his own visa and he is now more than willing to help the next person in any way that he can - which is the whole purpose of Poms in Oz. (The original site owner was British, so is the new one, and PiO had small, humble beginnings, hence the name. We now have members from lots of different countries and very welcome they all are on here.) Beyond the above, I intend to ignore the subject of electrics with you. My name is Gill, which is short for Gillian, and I'm a woman. If I have to wire up a plug, I take another one apart that definitely works and I copy what I see. I haven't a clue about Live, Neutral etc and I didn't do physics at school so the best thing for me to do about the technical side of electrics is to shut up. ************************************************************** I'm not a migration agent either but I am a lawyer, so I do have a suitably analytical mind and I understand the need for absolute precision and accuracy in anything to do with the law. Quoting you.... I dont want to apply for permanent migration without spending a significant period of time within the country, travelling a little and allowing our relationship to progress to a level significant enough. I think you would be bonkers to proceed on any basis other than the one you describe, for which the Working Holiday Visa provides the perfect "try before you buy" option. In your situation, the WH visa is tailor made for the purposes when none of the other visas are. "With a WHV, if you are prepared to fo three months specific regional work in the first 12 months, you'll then be eligible to apply for a second WHV of another 12 months " this sounds an attractive option, however what exactly is specific regional work? You definitely want the option of the second year, so common sense is to do your 3 months of specified work as soon as possible after you arrive. The visa is here: Working Holiday Visa (Subclass 417) Specified work in regional Oz: Working Holiday Visa (Subclass 417) It sounds to me as if what has been happening is that you have been trying to discover information via Google instead of via DIAC. Google leads to the websites of hundreds of firms of migration agents. The agents tell you enough to whet your appetite - bearing in mind that their websites are pure marketing tools, designed to lure you into paying the agent to give you a hand with your application/hijack your show - but not all agents are always accurate on the relevant law and the information on their websites is not always up to date either. In general the DIAC website is usually more reliable provided that you do not make the beginners' mistake of imagining that the DIAC website offers some sort of self servce pic'n'mix arrangement because it does not do that. If a specific piece of law is relevant to the visa in question, the DIAC website mentions in in the stuff about the visa concerned and it gives you the necessary sub-links to click on and read. ************************************************************** For many reasons, I strongly advocate a WH Visas for you. In no particular order: 1. Relationships go off the boil if they are left in limbo for too long, particularly when couples are young. The WH visa could have you in Brisbane within a fortnight, potentially. 2. As you realise, the safest option with Australia and with a new relationship is the "try before you buy" option. 3. If the relationship works out and you and your GF decide that the relationship is for keeps, she will become able to sponsor you for a Partner visa in due course. Partner Migration Booklet 4. If the relationship doesn't work out but you decide that Australia is Nirvana all the same, an employer who has had you working for him is more likely to want to sponsor you or a visa that will enable you to stay in Oz than is an Aussie employer who has never even heard of you before, let alone clapped eyes on you in the flesh, chum! Employer Sponsored Workers - Workers - Visas & Immigration 5. If all else collapses but you become convinced that you want to return to Oz for good one day, at that time other visa options will become possible and you will be young enough to take advantage of them. The cut-off age for skilled independent visas for Australia is 44. That cut-off age is very unlikely to move downwards. Skilled independent visas are also known as the General Skilled Migration (GSM) program. At the moment the present Minister for Immi is in the middle of a radical shake-up of the basis of the GSM program and everything to do with it is in a state of chaotic flux, plus the processing of the relevant visas has slowed to the speed of a snail with arthritis (no kidding - it has.) Therefore there is no point in speculating about what the GSM program will be like by the time you (may) wish to consider it. What will NOT disappear is Australia's need to continue to attract skilled immigrants from other countries. A month ago, I and some other Poms in Oz members went to Australia House in London for a meeting with David Wilden, DIAC's Regional Director for Europe. He was emphatic that Australia will continue to need skilled immigrants for longer than any adult today needs to worry about - which includes you. Please shout if any of us can help further. Cheers and all the very best for 2010 and beyond Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 If you find at some stage Joey that you do want to work in your trade in Australia, it could be that you will in fact be best to do the VETASSESS before travelling for on a closer look at the Queensland Licensing Regulations on Overseas applicants they make reference to two qualification paths, one onshore and one offshore. The onshore one has some conditions attached to it which could create some difficulty, ie. The first relevant qualification is an Australian Recognised Tradesman’s Certificate (ARTC) issued by Trades Recognition Australia (TRA) —the federal government agency responsible for assessing the trade skills of migrants. The issuing of the ARTC is completed by TRA after migration to Australia. Eligible people include those who hold permanent resident status and temporary resident visa holders who have an Australian spouse or are subject to an employment nomination. A person holding a 12 month working holiday visa may not be eligible for an ARTC. So be it Queensland or another state where you seek licensing, the VETASSESS may be the more reliable way to go. That is something I would check with TRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoeyLowtown Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Firstly Happy New Year to everybody on here....I have had the worst hangover today, as Im sure many others have. Gill your post was most helpful and I'm extremely grateful. I can't believe how much effort people put into helping one an another on here and it certainly appreciated. I have emailed all the licensing authorities etc that you have mentioned. I agree and always had thought, that the WHV is the way to go, however I would like to be in a position to work within the electrical industry for a period of that time in order to build contacts tc for possible sponsorship. I think I will wait to see what the licensing authorities and trade associations recommend. However I'm thinking that my plan is get out to Oz as soon as I've saved up a few pounds. Christmas and my previous travel have near bankrupted me haha. Im going try and locate some site work in England (if that is possible given our current state) and save some money for a few months. I'll possibly apply to VETASSESS in the meantime if that is what is required. I will arrive in Oz and maybe spend the first six weeks or so visiting a few people and then try and get my 3mths work in, which will undoubtedly be a new experience i'm sure! Then I will try and get some related work experience whether labouring or whatever and try to scope out sponsorships etc if I feel staying is a viable option. Whichever way, I feel there is a new year and an adventure up ahead. Its nice to have something to work towards and an excuse not to go out wasting my money every weekend. I did speak to an agent who offered to sort all the VETASSESS and visa's for me, the cost was astronomical. Like in the region of £900 just to sort VETASSESS, surely that is only filling in a few forms? I do not have that sort of money, so hopefully I can do it alone. Thanks again everyone. Gill your post was incredibly helpful, thankyou so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pommymarty Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Mate I would just bite the bullet and move! If you do a years working holiday and come back and then apply means you have to have worked for a year out of the last 18 months as a spark to qualify so you will then have to work for another year in the UK as a spark. Ive just emigrated and love it out here there is ridiculous amount of work for us and they pay there sparks nearly double what we get in UK. Get your WH visa go be with the girl and apply for your permanent resident visa in mean time or even look for a sponsor whilst you out here you wont regret it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juan Smith Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Vetassess is a joke, I'm a plumber and completed my Vetassess in UK, when I got here and looked into getting my overseas skills recognised over here they laughed when I told them I had completed my Vetassess. I was told by Tafe colleges that Vetassess was a waste of time and just a money spinner. The WHV would be the way to go. Have a look around OZ before you start blowing to much cash on visas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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