Migration, then and now.

[Guest Barry7]

Maybe something for the wannabe migrants to chew over.

 

When I migrated here in 1969 Australia was not the country that it is today, in fact it could be described as 'The wild west'.

 

Migrants arrived by ship after a 5 week voyage and usually ended up staying in a 'migrant hostel'. Two famous ones in Sydney were the Cabrammatta Hostel and the East Hills Hostel. These were primitive army camp style premises where migrant families were housed in old Nissen huts. There were no seperate rooms for adults and children, merely blankets hung as dividers. Toilets were communal and outside as were showers and baths. Meals were eaten in a large canteen building. Most hostels held around 500-600 people. To be blunt, it was bloody awfull. To show the degree of dinginess these places were, when the Vietnamese Boat people invaded Aussie shores in the late 70s and early 80s, the Government had to place them in emergency accomodation. They looked at some of the old 'migrant hostels' and deemed them unfit for habitation by humans and refused to put them in them.

 

Funnily enough, the majority of folk who suffered those hostels made a go of it here in Aussie. I wonder if todays migrants would be willing to put up with those conditions. Listening to a few on this site I seriously doubt it.

[Guest Deb62]

Hi Barry;

I saw a program on this recently and some of the conditions were pretty horrifying, especially when compared with the ads the Australian government put out at the time to attract migrants promising paradise. If I remember rightly approximately half of the ten pound poms returned to the UK ( then about half of those later went back to Australia). I wonder how many more would have stayed if the conditions had been better?

Deb

[Guest]

Funnily enough, the majority of folk who suffered those hostels made a go of it here in Aussie. I wonder if todays migrants would be willing to put up with those conditions. Listening to a few on this site I seriously doubt it.

 

Many DID return to the UK and many more would have if they could so although you make an interesting point I'd say no-one CHOSE to put up with those conditions (& I believe the term whinging pom originates from those days??) the difference is few of today's migrants have to stay if they don't like it & have the opportunity to vent their feelings on sites like this

 

Whether we like it or not attitudes have changed and the majority of new migrants are under 45 and used to living in a consumer-led society, rather different from the post-war conditions of the first £10 poms who had been brought up to 'make the best of things'.

 

My personal perspective is whilst I feel lucky to be here, as a family we are also making a valuable contribution - we are here because the Australian Government needs our skills so it's a two-way street Like any relationship there needs to be mutual respect and if the relationship goes wrong then it is better for both parties to go their separate ways!

 

Then again I guess the divorce rate is much higher than in 1969 as well!

 

Jules

[Jackboots]

here is a question why and what makes us want to go and live the other side of the world? i for one do ask myself this why at our age we are willing to go and start again?

[Guest Barry7]

Many DID return to the UK and many more would have if they could so although you make an interesting point I'd say no-one CHOSE to put up with those conditions (& I believe the term whinging pom originates from those days??)

Jules

 

Not quite correct Jules, we weren't exactly in chains like our predecessors when we came here in 69. 10 pound Poms had an option to leave if they didn't like it. They could leave anytime during the first 2 years but had to repay the Government the full migration free if they did. In other words if they didn't want to stay all they had to do is tough out the 2 years then pay a one way fare back and nothing to the Government.

 

I know from actual experience that quite a few did choose to stay and moved out of the Hostels as quickly as they could. I agree with your other points though.

[ali]

I admire greatly those who made the journey in those days. Reading about some migrants voyages from the (what seemed like) 5 star voyage - to a nissan hut, the heat, flies and dusty landscapes - it must have been quite an eye opener. Travelers then didn't have the benefit of being able to research their migration like we can today. I visit a family who migrated years ago with young sons, I love hearing their stories, which are both funny and sad.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Barry

 

I agree with Ali. I've got a couple of questions, please. Like Ali, I love hearing from Ten Pound Poms because there isn't a huge amount of literature about it.

 

My queries are:

 

1. What persuaded you to do it?

 

2. What sort of information were you given in advance and did it prove to be accurate?

 

3. I've seen old film footage about the nissen huts. How long were you there for before you were able to get out and get a proper house?

 

4. What was it like on the ship? Was that comfortable or was it troopship conditions?

 

5. What were the ports of call on the way to Australia?

 

6. Were all the passengers on the ship Ten Pound Poms?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Guest Barry7]

Hi Barry

 

I agree with Ali. I've got a couple of questions, please. Like Ali, I love hearing from Ten Pound Poms because there isn't a huge amount of literature about it.

 

My queries are:

 

1. What persuaded you to do it?

 

2. What sort of information were you given in advance and did it prove to be accurate?

 

3. I've seen old film footage about the nissen huts. How long were you there for before you were able to get out and get a proper house?

 

4. What was it like on the ship? Was that comfortable or was it troopship conditions?

 

5. What were the ports of call on the way to Australia?

 

6. Were all the passengers on the ship Ten Pound Poms?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

 

I had served 5 years in the RAF, lived in Married quarters with RAF furniture, My wifes family were already in Oz, it was a case of start from scratch in the UK or in Oz, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

 

Virtually no official info was given, we relied on what we were told by family out there. All I had seen of Australia was what I saw on TV shows like 'Skippy'.

 

We sailed on the TV 'Fairstar', of the Sitmar lines, a great liner, a cabin to ourselves and our 2 infant daughters, stopped at Las Palmas, Cape Town, Freemantle, Melbourne and Sydney. Waiter service, three lovely meals a day, just like a cruise around the world, no complaints whatsoever there. All the passengers on the ship were 10 pound Poms. For years after the 10 pound scheme finished the 'Fairstar' was one of the cruise ships that sailed tourists around ther Pacific Islands.

 

IT was very noticable though that some of the 10 pound Poms were already complaining when they bhad been on the ship a week. The service and amenities were fabulous but some families were split up, men in one cabin, ladies/children in other cabins, so a bloke could share a cabin with three complete strangers for the voyage. Of course you also had the ones who would have complained about the service etc if they had travelled on the QE11 or the Queen mary in State rooms and you always get them.

 

We arrived in Sydney and lived not far from the Cabrammatta Hostel. Wifes Mother refused to let us stay in hostel after her experiences and others in the family (Aunts, Uncles, cousins etc). She got us a run down fibro house, 2 bedrooms with outside dunny. Very little furniture, black and white TV, no fan and it was december when we arrived, 105 degrees. My wife at first refused to use the outside toilet as it was full of large spiders, I thought I had arrived in Dodge City. We got to know and visited with many migrants from the hostel, quite a few returned home, the place was full of migrants from Italy, Jugoslavia, Greece, Latvia and UK. The majority of our friends from the hostel moved out as soon as they could and allso stayed in Oz and made good lives for themselves.

 

As I said in my introduction, I hated the place for the first few years, it didn't help that I also detested my inlaws as well, but I got a job that I loved, my wife and kids were happy here, so I buckled down and got on with it. Now I'm glad that I did.

 

It was certainly a strange place though back then. All the shops closed at midday on Saturdays, No women allowed in pubs, The public transport system was awfull, the heat (Air conditioning, you have to be joking back then), the flies, the mozzies, the TV programmes were diabolical, Housing like nothing I had seen before, outside toilets, night soil carts, it was all strange and alien to me. I could not get used to sleeping in sweat, night after night or sitting under a cold shower for relief for months on end.

 

We arrived here with 2 kids, 200 pounds and a washing machine (that didn't work in Oz). I got a job within a week and have never, ever been out of work in 39 years here.

[Guest John Sydney]

I am also interested in the 10 Pound Pommy

 

As I was on the Australian side -

 

I will admit Australia was on the rough side back in the 40's and 50's it wasn't just the camps the whole country was very basic but changing at the same time.

But look at it from an Australians point of view

The camps were ex Army nissan huts and were for temporary accommodation for a period of up to a month while the family found accommodation for themselves and moved out

The cost was free or very low charges with 3 meals supplied

From just after WW2 - to say 1965 this type of accommodation was suitable

by then it was tired and outdated

However there was two problems with the camps

One was instead of moving out within a month some of the people lived in them for years at a time

The second problem was the changing expectations of the 10 pound pom

By the middle of the sixties the living conditions in the UK was improving (For the majority of the people) and the expectations were getting higher of what Australia should provide for them when they arrived.

 

Seen from Australian point of view

These Poms turn up here we pay to bring them over here then give them free accommodation and meals and they are still whinging - send the buggers back !!!

Due to the numbers of people living in the camps the Australian government wouldn't / couldn't improve them due to a tax payer backlash

In the end they shut the scheme down a couple years later

know all foreigners comming into Australia look after themselves from day one most do some are failures but thats life

[Petals]

I remember the 6 o'clock closing and I voted in the referendum to get 10 pm closing.

 

Talking of the night cart, when we built this house 20years ago there were still houses on the Mornington Peninsula that had the night cart go round. We had a builders toilet and they used to collect that as well and that is how we found out that some houses still had no sewerage at all.

[Guest jogrant3232]

I love these posts, please please all you ten pound poms keep posting because i find your posts fascinating.

[Petals]

It was very hard for migrants because there were no mobile phones, no internet only letters and airfares were very expensive so migrants had to rely on ships. In Rhodesia we had no television and I had to go to boarding school. We liked living there and it was a great life but we had to leave as things where hotting up even that long ago. My dad never wanted to return to the UK so we went to New Zealand and it was like stepping back in time. Model T fords there were heaps of them, no imports at all. However looking back on it now it was a good life, however my mum was very homesick and did not like it. She returned to the UK with my brother who was born in Rhodesia for a couple of years and then came back again, then they went to live in Perth and I went to live in Sydney.

 

I arrived in Sydney in 1968 and lived with a couple of Kiwi friends in Neutral Bay. In those days you had to be a member of a club and you could not just pop along and sign in so we spent a lot of time at the Italian Club because they would let us in. We stayed in Sydney for a couple of years and then moved to Melbourne. I loved Melbourne and still do. Melbourne has always been cosmopolitan and varied, lots of lovely restaurants even thirty years ago, so many different cultures and they have all given to the city and made it what it is.

 

No offence but Melbourne is completely different to every other city in Australia and has something for everyone.

 

:wubclub:

[connaust]

This multimedia link I stumbled across maybe of interest:

 

Australian Migrant Stories - Multiculturalism is an integral part of the nations fabric, with 23% of the population born overseas. The migrants made Australia their home for a variety of reasons. But as they age, they sometimes face a unique set of problems not encountered by the Australia born, including isolation, language difficulties and an inability to access essential health, transport and social services. Age reporters and photographers record the views of the now elderly migrants who left homes and families as young men and women to start a new life in Australia.

 

 

 

Migrant Stories - The Age

[Petals]

The articles are right a lot of older migrants still do not speak English, they have lived in their communities and had their own newspapers, clubs etc so for some reason they just did not learn the language. The migrants like this who are worse affected are the ones living in the country as in the cities there are facilities for these migrants.

 

They are not unlike the English in Spain I saw a programme where they too become ill and lonely and do not speak the language and its very very difficult.

 

I take the view that if I went to live in a country I would have to learn their language I am way too interested:wubclub: to be able to accept that I have no idea what is going on.:emoticon-signxmas:

[Jackboots]

fantastic thread, its lovely to hear the story, of what it was like years ago, we don't know the half of it do we?

[Guest Barry7]

On our second day here in Oz, my youngest daughter, who was then 18 months old, could not sleep without a bedside lamp ( called a 'night light' over here) so at 9pm my wife asked me to find a Chemist and buy one. I walked into the nearest township and found a Chemist and walking in I said to a young female assistant (in my finest Lancashire accent), Hi, do you have a 'bedside lamp' please'. The lass looked at me strangely and said "a what"? I said "A bedside lamp". She glared at me and said "Are you being a smart arse" ? Somewhat taken aback I looked at her and said "I'm only after a bedside lamp". She stormed through a curtain at the rear of the shop and out came a Chemist in a long white coat with an aggressive look on his face and said "WHat did you just say to my assistant"? By this stage I was starting to get the old dander up and I said "I'm asking to buy a bedside lamp, what's the problem"? Upon hearing my (very broad) North of England accent he said "Sorry, you are English aren't you ? could you please talk a bit slower, what was it you want again "? I said, very slowly and with a ton of menace in my voice "I-WANT-A-BEDSIDE-LAMP". The Chemist looked at me, his face lit up with a big smile and he laughed and said to me "I'm so sorry, my assistant misunderstood , she thought you were being smart and asked her for a BACKSIDE LUMP". I thought to myself, "What a strange people, don't they understand the Queens bloody English" ?

[Guest Birdiesinoz]

I had served 5 years in the RAF, lived in Married quarters with RAF furniture, My wifes family were already in Oz, it was a case of start from scratch in the UK or in Oz, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

 

Virtually no official info was given, we relied on what we were told by family out there. All I had seen of Australia was what I saw on TV shows like 'Skippy'.

 

We sailed on the TV 'Fairstar', of the Sitmar lines, a great liner, a cabin to ourselves and our 2 infant daughters, stopped at Las Palmas, Cape Town, Freemantle, Melbourne and Sydney. Waiter service, three lovely meals a day, just like a cruise around the world, no complaints whatsoever there. All the passengers on the ship were 10 pound Poms. For years after the 10 pound scheme finished the 'Fairstar' was one of the cruise ships that sailed tourists around ther Pacific Islands.

 

IT was very noticable though that some of the 10 pound Poms were already complaining when they bhad been on the ship a week. The service and amenities were fabulous but some families were split up, men in one cabin, ladies/children in other cabins, so a bloke could share a cabin with three complete strangers for the voyage. Of course you also had the ones who would have complained about the service etc if they had travelled on the QE11 or the Queen mary in State rooms and you always get them.

 

We arrived in Sydney and lived not far from the Cabrammatta Hostel. Wifes Mother refused to let us stay in hostel after her experiences and others in the family (Aunts, Uncles, cousins etc). She got us a run down fibro house, 2 bedrooms with outside dunny. Very little furniture, black and white TV, no fan and it was december when we arrived, 105 degrees. My wife at first refused to use the outside toilet as it was full of large spiders, I thought I had arrived in Dodge City. We got to know and visited with many migrants from the hostel, quite a few returned home, the place was full of migrants from Italy, Jugoslavia, Greece, Latvia and UK. The majority of our friends from the hostel moved out as soon as they could and allso stayed in Oz and made good lives for themselves.

 

As I said in my introduction, I hated the place for the first few years, it didn't help that I also detested my inlaws as well, but I got a job that I loved, my wife and kids were happy here, so I buckled down and got on with it. Now I'm glad that I did.

 

It was certainly a strange place though back then. All the shops closed at midday on Saturdays, No women allowed in pubs, The public transport system was awfull, the heat (Air conditioning, you have to be joking back then), the flies, the mozzies, the TV programmes were diabolical, Housing like nothing I had seen before, outside toilets, night soil carts, it was all strange and alien to me. I could not get used to sleeping in sweat, night after night or sitting under a cold shower for relief for months on end.

 

We arrived here with 2 kids, 200 pounds and a washing machine (that didn't work in Oz). I got a job within a week and have never, ever been out of work in 39 years here.

 

 

 

Hey Barry

 

I too was a 10 pound pom who travelled (with my parents) on the Fairstar in 1969. We arrived in Sydney a few days before Christmas but we were lucky enough that my mum's aunt who had arrive in 1958 let us stay with her. We did live in a 'temporary' as she called in in her back garden (basically a garage divided into 4 rooms) for over 3 years.

 

My mum could not commit to buying a house as she could not settle so took us back to the UK in 1972. We returned on the P&O boat Arcadia but this time went the other way round the world so through the Panama canal. It was a fantastic experience for me as i was 7 when we arrived in Oz and almost 10 when we left and as you may see, i am one that came back (albeit after 30 years!!!!).

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Barry

 

Thank you SO much for your description. I was born in 1956 so I am not hopelessly younger than you but at the same time I was not old enough to understand the "Ten Pound Poms" thing at the time either. I've always been vaguely aware of it - but vaguely would be the operative word.

 

I just WISH that we could convince people like you to write books, before the historical record vanishes forever.

 

My Parents were older than you - much older. Dad is dead but Mum is 88 and amazes us all with her sheer resilience. They weren't Ten Pound Poms.

 

Mum & Dad were in Malaya (now Malaysia) throughout the post-War Emergency there. Hardly anything has ever been written about that either and Mum is one of the few survivors left.

 

Like you, she releases bits & pieces - as &when one DRAGS the details out of both of you! She doesn't really understand my curiosity, I suspect. Mum's attitude is, "It happened. Then life changed and moved on." But when I sit her down and coax her into telling me more of the Emergency story it is totally rivetting. If I had time I would try to ghost write it for her but to do that one needs far more info than she has told me.

 

Barry, you are a natural writer - it comes across in your pieces on here. They are very well written, coherent and highly descriptive, plus very easy to read. You are a natural author.

 

Would you be willing to start a thread called something like, "The Diary of A Ten Pound Pom," and trying to get the whole thing into writing bit by bit? I really do NOT want to witness such a valuable insight as yours eventually vanishing. You have FAR more to tell than you might believe.

 

We know now why you did it etc. But how did you feel about abandoning your own family, please? What happened to all of them? How did you feel about that side of things?

 

I'm gonna get this story out of you somehow because it is one that needs to be told.

 

Barry - LOADS of our members are leaving Parents, siblings, cousins etc. Your insights into having done that yourself could help today's people. I'm right about this. Leaving loved ones is a bereavement in a way. Very hard to cope with. How did you cope?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

:emoticon-signxmas:

[Petals]

Amazing Gollywobbler my uncle who is 88 and lives in Perth was also in Malaya at that time he was in the British Navy and stationed there with his family. He is still going strong as his wife is too. They moved here from Malaya. Also another Uncle and Aunt were also in Malaya but they have passed on now.

[Guest Barry7]

Cheryl, it sounds as though you were on the Fairstar the same time I was, we arrived in Freemantle on the 14th december, 1969 and it was almost a week later that we arrived in Sydney, so it had to be the same ship.

 

Gollywobbler, I will certainly think about it, at the moment I am busy building up to Christmas and also minding four of my 10 Grandkids daily for the next 6 weeks or so, as well as having two more stay with us for a whole 10 days over Christmas. You know what it's like with kids these days, they have this burning NEED TO BE ENTERTAINED.

 

As for your Mothers memories, I decided to retain my Mothers memories and the memories of my wifes Mother & Step Father by recording them on video and burning them onto DVD. I wanted their memories from childhood onwards. I wrote a list of questions before I started and gave them to them to study for a few days then I got ito it. I learned more about them in those sessions than I had ever known before, it was amazing and I also learned things about my own Grandparents that I had never known before. Two of them passed away last year and I have a record of them telling their life stories so that their Grandkids, Great Grandkids and other ancestors can not only listen to them they can also see what type of person their Grandparent was visually, not just words on a piece of paper, but there in real life, a personality, a sense of fun, a real person. I intend doing that for my kids as well. I only wish I had done it for my Dad who was a veteran of the Battle of Arnhem in WW2 and an Ex POW, but unfortnately he passed on and took all his memories with him. Once they have gone you lose all those valuable memories forever.

 

Off the top of my head the list of questions were as follows;

 

What was your first ememory as a child ?

Where did you live ?

Tell me about your Mum and dad, describe them to me, their looks, nature, funny habits, work, discipine, eating habits, etc.

Tell me about your Grandparents and Great Granparents, if you remember them, same as above.

Describe your siblings.

What was your childhood like ? Who were your friends? How dod you spend Christmas ? What type of presents did you get ? What birthdays do you remember? Any serious illnesses ? Where did you have your holidays ? What school did you attend ? Do you remember your Teachers names ? Tell me about your memories of school ?

Tell me about growing up into your teenage years, what you did to entertain and enjoy yourself. How many Boyfriends/Girlfriends did you have ? Tell me about getting your first job, where was it, what did you do, how much did ytou earn?

Where did you first meet my Mum/Dad ? What were your first impressions of him/her ? Where did you go on your first date ? As a couple where did you go on an evening/weekend ? How did he propose to you ? Where did he propose to you ? Where were you married ?

WHere was your first marital home ? Describe it. What furniture did you have ? How much rent did you pay ?

Describe you early lives together, children arriving, houses moved to, jobs Dad/Mum did, how you survived,

Where did you go on your holidays as a family, Dads war service, His Service Army/Navy/RAF, His Regiment, Service number etc. Whether he served overseas. Any war service for Mother, Army, WRAF,WRENS etc.

Describe life after the war, where you lived etc.

 

You will find it amazing just how much their long term recall usually is. Hope this gives a few of you ideas.

[Guest snow white]

hi to all on herre, just wanted to say i found the post very helpful and interesting to read and its great to have a better insight into what it was like to be a ten pound pom from a real life perspective,

thanks to all ,

lesley

[Guest tenquidder]

Hi Barry7

 

I migrated to Sydney in 1960 with my parents. I was a 13 year old boy. I lived at Heathcote Rd Hostel, which was across the road from the East Hills Hostel.

I agree with pretty much everything you say about the miserable conditions on the hostels, etc. Today the internet makes it so much easier to chat to other people and do research before making the big decision. Also airfares are much cheaper so it's easier for people to come and have a look before deciding.

 

The upside back then was that it was a lot easier to get into Australia. If you were British, your health was OK and you weren't too old, that was it, basically. And it only cost ten quid each, kids free of charge.

 

There's a DVD of the British documentary "Ten Pound Poms" available in Australia from the ABC Shop. There's also a book of the same name. The website migrantweb.com includes a forum where oldtimers like me can post memories and old photos.

[Guest snow white]

wasnt that documentary on tv not long ago im sure it was

lesley x

[Petals]

I first arrived in Sydney Australia in 1968 and worked in Pitt Street in the Royal Exchange Building and lived in Neutral Bay.

 

Its interesting that the hostels were around for such a long time and you can see that because the people who lived in them tended to settled around the area they were in and in Melbourne we have the Vietnamese community at Springvale and in Sydney they are in Cabramatta. The English had moved on by the seventies.

 

I am personally friends with a couple of Italian ladies who were also 10 pound migrants. There are a lot of them around as they came as children. We forget that so many of the migrants were Greek and Italian. Thank goodness for that they saved our cuisine from being bland.

[Guest tenquidder]

wasnt that documentary on tv not long ago im sure it was

lesley x

 

Hi lesley x

 

Yes I think you're right. That may have been a repeat. It's been aired on both UK and OZ tv. I have a copy of the DVD, so I haven't been looking out for it on telly. A friend of mine gave me a copy a bit over a year ago, after I mentioned over a drink that I was one of the original "ten pound screamers" (another Aussie term of endearment for the whingeing pom).

 

Cheers

Chris