143 to 804

[Ollie1234]

We're in the queue for 143 visa but given it's still a long way from being granted we are considering switch to 804. 

We are in Australia on 651 for 7 weeks. 

I know we put 804 application in, get bridging visa A and need to apply for bridging visa B before retuning to UK to pack up/ sell up. 
We completed all the forms again (for 804) but wondering if anyone can help with a couple of queries please?

1. When we submit 804 application and payment, how long does it take to be granted BVA?
2. When we then apply for BVB, how long does it take for that to be granted? 

Also, not related to the application, but if we eventually sell investment properties in UK and buy investment properties here, is the FIRB application fee the $5,600 shown on their website (per property under 1mill) or is that just to find out how much the FIRB fee is for the property you're buying? And does FIRB fee still apply if you buy new-build? I checked their website but can't work it out. 

Thanks in advance. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Ollie1234 said:

Also, not related to the application, but if we eventually sell investment properties in UK and buy investment properties here, is the FIRB application fee the $5,600 shown on their website (per property under 1mill) 

I am pretty sure that is the fee.  However don't forget there will also be a FIRB surcharge on the purchase price.   You can work that out on this calculator

https://stampduty.calculatorsaustralia.com.au/

Notice that you can select whether it's a new build etc, and it will show you whether the surcharge is payable.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Ollie1234 said:

1. When we submit 804 application and payment, how long does it take to be granted BVA?
2. When we then apply for BVB, how long does it take for that to be granted? 

Not sure, but regardless of when it's granted, the BVA will not start until your existing visa expires.  

[Ollie1234]

59 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Not sure, but regardless of when it's granted, the BVA will not start until your existing visa expires.  

I don't follow. If currently here on 651, that won't 'expire' until 12 months from date of entry. I thought they had to be onshore when BVA was granted? 

[Marisawright]

1 minute ago, Ollie1234 said:

I don't follow. If currently here on 651, that won't 'expire' until 12 months from date of entry. I thought they had to be onshore when BVA was granted? 

As I understand it, the BVA will be granted during the validity of their current visa, but it won't be activated on the date it's issued.  It takes over when the current visa expires.  

The 651 is a special case because it allows multiple shorter visits over the 12 months, so it's a good question what would count as the "expiry" date.  

[paulhand]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

As I understand it, the BVA will be granted during the validity of their current visa, but it won't be activated on the date it's issued.  It takes over when the current visa expires.  

The 651 is a special case because it allows multiple shorter visits over the 12 months, so it's a good question what would count as the "expiry" date.  

The 651 allows a 3 month stay from the day of arrival. If you are still onshore at this point, it expires. If you leave before the three months is up, you can renter and get another three months until the original 12 months is up. So, to activate a BVA you need to stay beyond the three month period only. 

[Ollie1234]

6 hours ago, paulhand said:

The 651 allows a 3 month stay from the day of arrival. If you are still onshore at this point, it expires. If you leave before the three months is up, you can renter and get another three months until the original 12 months is up. So, to activate a BVA you need to stay beyond the three month period only. 

This visit is only for 8 weeks. So does that mean we can't apply for 804? Or do we apply, and get an 'inactive' BVA that will be 'active' on next visit (within 12 months)? 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Ollie1234

[Marisawright]

16 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

This visit is only for 8 weeks. So does that mean we can't apply for 804? Or do we apply, and get an 'inactive' BVA that will be 'active' on next visit (within 12 months)? 

Perhaps pay for Paul to give you specific advice. But I'd have thought the solution would be for them to apply and then extend their current stay if necessary, until the BVA and then the BVB both come through.  

Alternatively they could simply finish their current visit, go home and sell up, then apply for the 804 on their next visit.  Then they won't need a BVB unless and until they need to go overseas for some other reason.

[Ollie1234]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Perhaps pay for Paul to give you specific advice. But I'd have thought the solution would be for them to apply and then extend their current stay if necessary, until the BVA and then the BVB both come through.  

Alternatively they could simply finish their current visit, go home and sell up, then apply for the 804 on their next visit.  Then they won't need a BVB unless and until they need to go overseas for some other reason.

It's pretty general advice, which is what the forum is for.

[Ollie1234]

On 17/03/2022 at 01:19, paulhand said:

The 651 allows a 3 month stay from the day of arrival. If you are still onshore at this point, it expires. If you leave before the three months is up, you can renter and get another three months until the original 12 months is up. So, to activate a BVA you need to stay beyond the three month period only. 

So you can't apply for the 804 onshore and leave before 3 months?
Or you can but would need to leave/return on the 651 then 'activate' BVA on next entry to Aus? 
If the latter, could anything stop BVA being 'activated' once issued? 

In essence, they could: 
- Apply for 804 onshore
- Get granted within weeks
- Leave on 651 8 weeks after arrival (in May)
- Return in Dec (on 651) 
- Stay longer than 3 months to activate BVA.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Ollie1234

[Marisawright]

1 minute ago, Ollie1234 said:

So you can't apply for the 804 onshore and leave before 3 months? 

If you apply for the 804 then you must stay in Australia until you have both the BVA and the BVB in your hands. 

If you apply for the 804 then leave before the BVA is granted, the application won’t go any further. If you wait for the BVA but leave before you get a BVB, you won’t be allowed back in the country and your 804 application won’t go any further

[Ollie1234]

On 18/03/2022 at 15:18, Marisawright said:

If you apply for the 804 then you must stay in Australia until you have both the BVA and the BVB in your hands. 

If you apply for the 804 then leave before the BVA is granted, the application won’t go any further. If you wait for the BVA but leave before you get a BVB, you won’t be allowed back in the country and your 804 application won’t go any further

I just spoke with Immi and they tell me it's ok to apply for 804 then leave/return on 651 visa (before 90 days as usual) so long as it is still valid (which it is for 12 months from issue date), as the BVA will be issued off the back of the 804 application but will not 'come into effect' until current visa (651) expires. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Ollie1234

[LindaH27]

On 22/03/2022 at 09:16, Ollie1234 said:

I just spoke with Immi and they tell me it's ok to apply for 804 then leave/return on 651 visa (before 90 days as usual) so long as it is still valid (which it is for 12 months from issue date), as the BVA will be issued off the back of the 804 application but will not 'come into effect' until current visa (651) expires. 

Don’t forget to withdraw 143 before you apply for 804. 

Also few considerations to think about. 
you lose your queue  date and start afresh. 
You must pass a medical in 3 years in order just to be put into the queue and that’s your new queue date.  If one fails both fail and you can be asked to leave Australia  in 35 days. You will need deep pockets on 804. You’ll have to be self supporting for 30 years plus  and  pay a lot of extra money on properties. You can’t enrol in Medicare  and must rely on Reciprocal health care if from UK and only covers “essential” medical care. 
Absolutely  no help given with aged care costs either in the home or in care home. Youwould still have to pass medical before final grant at  Possibly aged 90 or more! 
 

804 may have changes coming in with report due next week and I doubt they will be for the better!  Immi are very well aware of the swing to 804 because of the extended processing times. They got rid of it in 2014 but had to reinstate within 6 months. The review of 2016 recommended only giving to really compassionate cases so who knows what this report will say.  Suffice to say the govt  really don’t like 804!! 
Maybe they will increase the quota for  143? Unlikely but if they did you’ve lost your queue  date.  

Edited March 23, 2022 by LindaH27

[Ollie1234]

Hi Linda, 

Yes I'm aware of all this, but realistically can't see them increasing 143 and even of they do with a 2020 application it's still going to be longer that we expected (based on the misleading info on the gov website - 4.5 years in 2020). Literally at the point where if they can't stay lawfully in Australia we'll pack up, sell up and move back to the UK. I love Australia and call it home after 13 years but need to be close to my parents as they get older.

The government harp on about skills shortages and spend on overseas recruitment drives, but it's a never ending cycle as those new recruits eventually need to be close to parents. Short-sighted thinking in my opinion. After being locked in WA for 2 years, the rose tinted glasses are off. If Labor get in and McGowen gets more power, then god help us all in WA. 

So we're at the pointy end. Don't care where I live anymore so long as I can support my parents from nearby. 
The visa system is a mess. 

[LindaH27]

48 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

Hi Linda, 

Yes I'm aware of all this, but realistically can't see them increasing 143 and even of they do with a 2020 application it's still going to be longer that we expected (based on the misleading info on the gov website - 4.5 years in 2020). Literally at the point where if they can't stay lawfully in Australia we'll pack up, sell up and move back to the UK. I love Australia and call it home after 13 years but need to be close to my parents as they get older.

The government harp on about skills shortages and spend on overseas recruitment drives, but it's a never ending cycle as those new recruits eventually need to be close to parents. Short-sighted thinking in my opinion. After being locked in WA for 2 years, the rose tinted glasses are off. If Labor get in and McGowen gets more power, then god help us all in WA. 

So we're at the pointy end. Don't care where I live anymore so long as I can support my parents from nearby. 
The visa system is a mess. 

The problem is that govt knows that for every young person who goes home, because their parents aren’t allowed, would be instantly replaced by 100s more who want to be in Australia. They might not increase the quota of 143  but it’s looking far  more likely that they will do something about 804! It’s not sustainable for them to expect the Australian taxpayer to pay around $410000 for each older person who has never made a financial contribution towards Medicare.

I’m 71 and been waiting nearly 5 years but if I couldn’t get to my visa to go Australia for a few more years I’d do long visits or go for long term 870 or FaceTime every day and my daughter would visit here too -   we decided long ago not  to let it consume us as it would cause so much heartache otherwise    

There are long term posters on here who did actually go home to care for their parents  and then return later.  

If my daughter said she wanted to return home to look after me ,  I’d actually tell her not to however much I love and miss her,  because it’s Her life and her choice to migrate - she’s been there 16 years now with an Australian husband and family. I grew up knowing one of my close relatives emigrated to New Zealand and the only communication was air mail which took about 6 weeks to get there and we never saw them again.   

At least today with the wider communications we can have face to face chats etc  

There was a recent web conference with an MP  from Labour Kristina Keneally and one from the Greens Julian Hill recently and Nick Mckim is very vocal too.  - they seemed to be very interested in changing the parent visa situation so perhaps people need to vote for them in the next election?!.  Obviously it’s all a personal choice - but maybe hang in another few days to see what the report says before you jump. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by LindaH27

[Ollie1234]

1 hour ago, LindaH27 said:

The problem is that govt knows that for every young person who goes home, because their parents aren’t allowed, would be instantly replaced by 100s more who want to be in Australia. They might not increase the quota of 143  but it’s looking far  more likely that they will do something about 804! It’s not sustainable for them to expect the Australian taxpayer to pay around $410000 for each older person who has never made a financial contribution towards Medicare.

I’m 71 and been waiting nearly 5 years but if I couldn’t get to my visa to go Australia for a few more years I’d do long visits or go for long term 870 or FaceTime every day and my daughter would visit here too -   we decided long ago not  to let it consume us as it would cause so much heartache otherwise    

There are long term posters on here who did actually go home to care for their parents  and then return later.  

If my daughter said she wanted to return home to look after me ,  I’d actually tell her not to however much I love and miss her,  because it’s Her life and her choice to migrate - she’s been there 16 years now with an Australian husband and family. I grew up knowing one of my close relatives emigrated to New Zealand and the only communication was air mail which took about 6 weeks to get there and we never saw them again.   

At least today with the wider communications we can have face to face chats etc  

There was a recent web conference with an MP  from Labour Kristina Keneally and one from the Greens Julian Hill recently and Nick Mckim is very vocal too.  - they seemed to be very interested in changing the parent visa situation so perhaps people need to vote for them in the next election?!.  Obviously it’s all a personal choice - but maybe hang in another few days to see what the report says before you jump. 

Hi Linda, 

I appreciate your input, but can't see the point of waiting. Things aren't going to look better after the 28th, so we'll take our chances. It's my choice to be where my parents are, and if that's in the UK, then so be it. Facetime doesn't cut it for me. Yes, there will always be people wanting to come to Australia, but by the same token, they are leaving in droves because of family visa saga and here in WA, because we were locked in for 2 years, at least 12 months of which was uncalled for. If it doesn't work out for us here, we'll just go back. 

It sounds like you don't have much longer to wait, but for us, even if they increase quota it will be several years. Life is too short. Family first for me. 

[Marisawright]

31 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

Yes, there will always be people wanting to come to Australia, but by the same token, they are leaving in droves because of family visa saga 

It will be interesting to see what the numbers are, when things settle down.   It's easy to think there are "droves" when you are one of a very vocal group.  But how many thousands are there, exactly, and what percentage of migrants is it?

It's very far from true to say that every migrant will want to be with aged parents eventually.  Some migrants are only one son/daughter from a larger family, so there are siblings still in the home country to care for the parents. Then there are migrants who left their home country to get away from parents or a dysfunctional family.  Then there are those who have already lost their parents.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that migrants who want to be with their parents are in a minority - because people who are very close to their parents are less likely to migrate in the first place, (unless they marry an Aussie).  That's why I say it will be interesting to see what the figure is in the end.

[LindaH27]

3 hours ago, Ollie1234 said:

Hi Linda, 

I appreciate your input, but can't see the point of waiting. Things aren't going to look better after the 28th, so we'll take our chances. It's my choice to be where my parents are, and if that's in the UK, then so be it. Facetime doesn't cut it for me. Yes, there will always be people wanting to come to Australia, but by the same token, they are leaving in droves because of family visa saga and here in WA, because we were locked in for 2 years, at least 12 months of which was uncalled for. If it doesn't work out for us here, we'll just go back. 

It sounds like you don't have much longer to wait, but for us, even if they increase quota it will be several years. Life is too short. Family first for me. 

If it’s family first then it may be best to go back to UK rather than put your parents through the uncertainties and expense of 804. They would be in familiar surroundings, amongst the friends they know and the financial situation they know and the security of free NHS. . As people get older they don’t cope as well with upheavals.

 All of us were unable to see family abroad during the pandemic - UK had a particularly bad time! I for one am still very nervous of spending 26 hours on a plane with possible unvaxxed people on it, especially as older people are more susceptible. I’m hearing of far more people of my age now who are getting the new variant - in fact that age group is showing the biggest rise in cases. 

No disrespect intended, we all have the right to make our own choices but sometimes situations need careful thoughts first rather than emotional.

I hope things work out for you whichever country you end up in. 

[Tulip1]

‘but it's a never ending cycle as those new recruits eventually need to be close to parents’

Some do, most don’t.  
 

[Tulip1]

9 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

If it’s family first then it may be best to go back to UK rather than put your parents through the uncertainties and expense of 804. They would be in familiar surroundings, amongst the friends they know and the financial situation they know and the security of free NHS. . As people get older they don’t cope as well with upheavals.

 All of us were unable to see family abroad during the pandemic - UK had a particularly bad time! I for one am still very nervous of spending 26 hours on a plane with possible unvaxxed people on it, especially as older people are more susceptible. I’m hearing of far more people of my age now who are getting the new variant - in fact that age group is showing the biggest rise in cases. 

No disrespect intended, we all have the right to make our own choices but sometimes situations need careful thoughts first rather than emotional.

I hope things work out for you whichever country you end up in. 

Almost all on a flight will be vaccinated and as vaccinated people can still pass it on to you it makes little difference so I’d try not to worry about that.  Also, everyone on that flight will have done a fit to fly test within 48 hours of that flight so the chances are low anyone will have Covid.  Sure they could get it in that 48 hour window but it’s unlikely.  I did the antigen test before my recent trip to Australia and that has to be done within 24 hours of the flight.  I did it in the afternoon and my flight was the following morning.  Considering I’d been at home for most of the time from test to flight the chances of me having Covid on that flight was negligible, same as everyone else on it.  You could sit in a coffee shop and be at more risk because everyone in there won’t have been 100% negative the day or so before.  Go for it and enjoy. 

[Ollie1234]

1 hour ago, LindaH27 said:

If it’s family first then it may be best to go back to UK rather than put your parents through the uncertainties and expense of 804. They would be in familiar surroundings, amongst the friends they know and the financial situation they know and the security of free NHS. . As people get older they don’t cope as well with upheavals.

 All of us were unable to see family abroad during the pandemic - UK had a particularly bad time! I for one am still very nervous of spending 26 hours on a plane with possible unvaxxed people on it, especially as older people are more susceptible. I’m hearing of far more people of my age now who are getting the new variant - in fact that age group is showing the biggest rise in cases. 

No disrespect intended, we all have the right to make our own choices but sometimes situations need careful thoughts first rather than emotional.

I hope things work out for you whichever country you end up in. 

I'm not making the decisions for my parents, we are making them together. They have spent 3 months here every year for the last 13, (exc the last 2 thanks to Covid) so it's not unfamiliar to them and they have friends here too. If it doesn't work out, we'll all go back.

Regarding flying, it's been established that unvaccinated can pass it on just the same. The planes are actually pretty safe, it's the airports that are more risky, but end of the day you could argue that there's no point taking a vaccine if you're going to stay at home. Yes the UK did it tough, but they are getting on with it. 

[Ollie1234]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It will be interesting to see what the numbers are, when things settle down.   It's easy to think there are "droves" when you are one of a very vocal group.  But how many thousands are there, exactly, and what percentage of migrants is it?

It's very far from true to say that every migrant will want to be with aged parents eventually.  Some migrants are only one son/daughter from a larger family, so there are siblings still in the home country to care for the parents. Then there are migrants who left their home country to get away from parents or a dysfunctional family.  Then there are those who have already lost their parents.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that migrants who want to be with their parents are in a minority - because people who are very close to their parents are less likely to migrate in the first place, (unless they marry an Aussie).  That's why I say it will be interesting to see what the figure is in the end.

Have to disagree with that. I'm very close to my parents, we talk every day. Anyway, each to their own. Good luck everyone! 

[Marisawright]

45 minutes ago, Ollie1234 said:

Have to disagree with that. I'm very close to my parents, we talk every day. Anyway, each to their own. Good luck everyone! 

I know you are. I'm not disputing that.  I'm pointing out that you are the exception, not the rule.  

[Jo Newbie]

We're in the queue for 143 also, having lodged in 2019 and now expecting to have to wait longer than first advised, so are now looking at applying for 870. My daughter who has citizenship is looking to lodge sponsorship forms in July this year. We are visiting for three months in September, having not seen her since July 2019 thanks to Covid. Our first grandson will be now turning three shortly! Although facetime is a godsend, a computer screen can never replace that physical emotion.

We also have a son who is a Canadian citizen and so for us it has been extremely hard over the last two years. As parents, we are extremely proud of our children and what they have both achieved and like Linda, would never ask or expect them to return here to support us. They too, have made sacrifices in order to pursue their dreams. I sometimes feel that the Australian Government is blindsided by their 'medical concerns' and 'lack of contribution' when deciding the quota of Parental visas, especially when the cost is so high financially but more importantly mentally. My husband and I are committed to seeing our application through and one day, hopefully in the not so distant future, we will be raising a glass to them & thanking them for giving us the opportunity to recoup some of that physical emotion that we have missed so much. 

Good luck to everyone, which ever route you choose to take.