Is Sydney right for me?

[epscylonb]

Hi,

I'm an English guy living and working in London. I have previously lived in Perth for a year and half and still have a visa that would allow me to live and work in Australia.

I'm trying to decide if I should make the leap back or stay in London. I'm 35, single and have no dependents. I work in IT.

I really like the idea of Sydney though I never visited it. I've heard the IT industry is strong there and during my first full english winter back in the UK I found myself really missing the sunshine.

I also really enjoy walking and hiking, the idea of exploring the area of NSW around Sydney and beyond is extremely appealing.

I've looked at rental and house prices and don't think that would be a problem. I'd be happy with living 10-20km out from the CBD as long as I can either cycle or get a train to work. And I think on a similar salary to my current one that would be doable. I'm happy to house/flat share.

The reason for this post is that I have a number of reservations, in no particular order:

• How cycle friendly is Sydney?
• How is the nightlife?
• How easy is it to make friends?
• Any experiences of the IT job industry?
• I like to go to the gym often, any experiences of gyms in Sydney? Prices, quality, availability, etc.

I guess I'm lucky in that I don't have too much to lose. It feels like an opportunity cost whether I go or stay, but I'd probably regret it more if I didn't go (I can always come back to the UK if I don't get on with it.)

A big issue is making friends, In Perth I found people I worked with to be standoffish and not all that friendly, and didn't really make any friends at all. I have a good bunch of mates in London who I'd really miss. The idea of moving to a completely fresh city where I don't know anyone is exciting and scary in equal parts. If anything I go out and drink a bit too much in London so I like the idea of quieting that down, but obviously would still like a social life.

The job situation is important too, I had two jobs in Perth and they did not compare well to the jobs I have had in London. I particularly like my current job and would be sad to leave.

I'm also interested in hearing from people who think Melbourne might be better. Sydney seems like the right fit for me because of industry and climate but I'm open to being persuaded.

Really appreciate any thoughts anyone would care to share.

Thanks.

[BritChickx]

Hi, welcome to the forum! I'm afraid I can't offer any real advice as I haven't been to Sydney either, but all the best with your decision making!

[themaccas]

I can comment on two of those..I'm an experienced cyclist and unfortunately I think Sydney is the worst and most dangerous place in the world to be a cyclist I used to cycle all the time in the UK and never gave a second thought as to whether the traffic would be considerate - I never had a problem. There are some cycle lanes and Sydney is trying to get more so it's getting better but you take your life into your own hands mostly!

Gyms- these are on almost every street you can pay as much or as little as you want. A good 24/7 gym will cost around $20 a week with up to date and good quality equipment but will often be unstaffed out of hours. I am a member of Virgin Active which have a few in Sydney and Melbourne and I love it, they have a pool, classes, great equipment, yoga, Pilates, climbing wall and it is always staffed, the one I go to opens at 5.30am but most open at 6am.

I have made really great friends from my work and socialise with them regularly but I also have a family so not out all the time!! We have been in Sydney for 5 years and absolutely love it, no intention of moving back to the UK. Also the housing situation is very $$$ we are building a house, it's the cheapest way we could get our own place and it's 50km outside Sydney :-( our eldest son lives with his girlfriend in Balmain where they rent an apartment for $500 a week but it's quite old and basic, they are moving soon and looking for something newer with aircon but for $500 a week they need to move further out of the CBD.

Weather - not as cold as Melbourne, it's winter now and around 18c it will go down to single figures soon.

 

 

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[LKC]

I agree with the pp about cycling.  My husband cycles to the train station most days, but only on local roads.  He'd not feel safe on the main roads.  Sydney isn't cyclist friendly, in my opinion.  From what I see on local Facebook groups, there seems to be an anti cyclist attitude too, at least in my area.  Having said that, the trains are pretty good, so if you live close-ish to a train station it is pretty east to get about.

There are lots of gyms, pretty much on every corner, plus lots of outdoor fitness groups if that's something you enjoy.  Prices are pretty good from what I've seen, although I don't use a gym as such, just the local council swimming pool (cheap, beautiful heated outdoor pools, there is a gym and classes but I don't use those).

I can't comment on the nightlife, I have young children for entertainment instead!

With regards to making friends, we've had a different experience to the pp.  My closest friends here are both migrants themselves (one from Slovakia, one from the US), but I've found it very difficult to make Australian friends.  I know some of the mums at school, but although they are friendly friendly on the surface, our friendships have never gone deeper than that, and not for lack of trying on my part.  I've certainly not made the same sort of deep friendships here that I had in the UK (with the exception of the two friends I mentioned above).  Husband has had the same experience, although he works with people who are culturally very different, so they don't include him when they socialise (although he is also their boss, which might have something to do with it).  Of course this is just our experience of our tiny corner of Sydney, and I'm sure you'll get others who'll tell you that they've made plenty of friends.  

I've no experience of the IT industry, so can't comment on that.

The weather in Sydney is mostly okay.  It can rain for what seems like weeks on end in the autumn, and it does get very hot and humid (unpleasantly so) in the summer, but for most of the year it is pretty good.

Why not give it a go?  You've very little to tie you down, it doesn't have to be forever, and if you come over and decide you don't like it, just chalk it up to experience and move on.  On the other hand, it might suit you down to the ground!  We're going back after eight years, having had some great experiences and with very fond memories of the place!

[themaccas]

I agree with the council leisurecentres they are fab and definitely consider these if you end up living/working nearby to them. My virgin active membership is $65 a fortnight so not cheap but will do me until a new leisure centre opens up in my suburb in a couple of years time!


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[Collie]

Hey mate.

First up Sydney is very different to Perth.  It is a much bigger city and that brings more opportunities but also more issues.  I lived in Sydney for >10 years and have recently moved to Perth.  There is a lot more going on in Sydney but it won't be as busy as London, it doesn't have a 24/7 vibe.

On your main points of concern:

Making friends - can be difficult anywhere new and the older you are, the harder it can be, as an expat you need to put yourself out there a bit as you won't have the networks that you grew up with etc.  Meetup.com is great for meeting people with similar interests.  Joining a sports club is another good one.  As I have gotten older, I have become more wary about having my social circles too tied in with work.  If you don't like/leave your job it means your social circle slowly ebbs away too.  Always nice to be friendly and go for Friday drinks etc but have a circle outside of work.  Also means that you don't spend your social time talking about work (and work politics).

Cycling - it depends on wheher you are talking for leisure or commuting.  Commuting isn't great but is improving (thanks to Mayor Clover Moore) with some dedicated bus lanes in the city.  Leisure wise, good national parks, Manly dam etc if weekend mountain biking is your thing.  If you are into it maybe join a cycling club.

Night life is a mixed bag.  The lock out laws have had a big negative impact on the night time economy.  Although, the change in licensing laws to allow small bars has greatly improved the quality and quantity of good places in the CBD (made it more like Melbourne).  It is a lot quieter than it used to be (or maybe I'm just older now), Fri, Sat nights and Sunday 'avos can be busy/buzzing but mid week tends to be quiet.  Nightlife is better in Melbourne.  Sydney nearly always has something going on in terms of festivals etc which adds to the nightlife.  Vivid is on at the moment and has become huge in recent years.  Always lots of gigs on in Sydney if that is your thing ( I used to go to 3-4 per month)

Lots of gyms everywhere so shouldn't be an issue

Work - Definitely will have more opportunities in Sydney and Melbourne than Perth.  Most large Australian and International companies have their H/Os in Sydney and Melbourne, probably 50% Sydney, 40% Melbourne and 10% elsewhere.  Are you a PM, developer, BA?  You shouldn't have too many issues, have a look at seek.com.au and Linked In to get a feel for the market.  Also reach out to a few recruiters to get a feel for the market.

Where to live? At your age and what you looking for, I think you would need to live in Inner Sydney (or Melbourne), ie within 10kms of the CBD.  I may be biased but I think Inner west would suit you best areas like Balmain, Rozelle, Newtown.  I'm not mad about it but maybe Redfern/Surry Hills or Inner East (Paddington)  The Eastern suburbs can be pricey.  Lower north shore would be your demographic also (Neutral Bay, Cremorne) but I always found it too quiet.

Cost of living - Sydney is an expensive city, mostly for property.  Apart from property it is cheaper than Perth (drinks, meals out etc).  I used to live a nice lifestyle in Sydney for $3 to $3.5k per month excluding accomodation costs.  Have a look at domain.com.au to get an idea of property costs and flatfinders.com.au for house shares.  A 1 bed in the inner west will be $500-$600 per week.  You should get a nice flatshare/houseshare for $300-$400 pw and this could be the way to go for the first year anyway from a social side.  All in, $5-$6k pm will give you a nice lifestyle but accomodation will be the big expense.  Melbourne is probably about 10% cheaper IME but salaries are about 10% lower too.

Sydney v Melbourne.  Like I said, salaries and cost of living about 10% cheaper in Melbourne.  Melbourne is more of a European city than Sydney and is more liveable but Sydney has better climate and the harbour is stunning (never gets old), For me, Sydney is the Australian dream.  People are the same everywhere but probably a bit more approachable in Melbourne, Sydney can be a bit stuck up in places (Eastern suburbs mostly).

Hope that helps

My advice - don't die wondering, if you don't do it now you never will.  I take it you have PR?  You will need to give it a good 2 years though, it will take 12 months to settle in.  And if you are not going to arrive by end of Sept, leave it until Jan/Feb and recruitement pretty much stops from mid Nov to Jan.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Collie

[epscylonb]

Thanks all for replying.

I'm a software developer, previously when I was in Perth it took 6 weeks to find a job. When I came back to London it took 2.5 weeks. My experience in Perth leads me to believe it will be a lot easier to land a job when I am in the country. My plan would be to come over with enough money to see me through for 3 or 4 months, but I'd being hoping to get a job within a month. Seek suggests there is some demand for the languages and frameworks I am most familiar with so that's encouraging.

I'm a little disappointed (but not completely surprised) to hear that Sydney isn't too cycle commute friendly. It's not a deal breaker, if cycling all the way to work is too hairy I could try cycling to train station (this is what I did in Perth).

I agree about making friends, I've looked at meetup.com and there is definitely groups that look interesting there. I realise I will have to put pressure on myself though, I can't expect to make new friends without any effort. Living in shared accomodation is a good idea and could help, I suspect I'd do that for the first year.

@Collie Thanks for pointing out that recruitment dries up over christmas, I hadn't considered that. I was thinking about making the move at the end of this year but am now thinking it might be better to wait until the beginning of 2018.

Thanks again!

 

[MARYROSE02]

I've know a group of friends in their mid 30's and they all met playing squash at Hiscoes gym in Crown Street, Surry Hills, so, based upon their experience, many of them migrants, joining a sports club, or a bushwalking club, is a great way to build a social life. Some of them work in IT or IT-related industries where their UK skills seem to have landed them very good jobs here.

I don't know how you met your friends in London, but, assuming they are not friends from childhood, you met them through work, sport, clubs, whatever. I don't know why you found it difficult to make friends in Perth.

Sydney has come late to promoting cycling and although there are cycle networks, routes, separate cycleways, perhaps some of the roads don't lend themselves to cycling. I'm too scared to cycle in Sydney but then again I would be the same in London where I remember seeing them in the winter gloom with no lights or hi-viz clothing (just like Sydney) dodging buses, taxis and other vehicles.  As a pedestrian I don't like cyclists as they take over the pavements and then demand precedence. Motorists can be unpleasant too but generally they do not drive on the pavement or the wrong way on one way streets