Aus law degree in UK

[britgirl]

Hello!

Unfortunately have found myself halfway through a degree in Australia, planning to move to UK within next 3 years for family reasons.

Studying Law (Honours) and Arts (International Relations and French) at the Australian National University. 2.5 years in, 2.5 to go.

Options:

1) Quit and waste all this work/money, move to UK September, start Uni fresh there - would have to pay international fees...

2) Finish degree, move immediately to UK a) do post grad b) try and find graduate position

3) Finish degree, work in Aus 1-2 years, transfer to UK

 

I think 3 is easiest (1 is just unreasonable), 2 is my preference with the post grad because then I still get a bit of UK Uni experience.

What are your guys thoughts? And does anyone have any experience transferring Law degrees from Aus-UK - is it hard? Expensive? Lengthy process?

 

Job prospects (probably grim?) in UK - based in South West - London, Hampshire, Dorset, Bristol... ?

Thanks in advance.

[louisella]

Hi, I can't help about transferring the degree I'm afraid (hubby's currently in the process of doing it the other way around). We live in the South West and whilst you should be fine in Bristol, the options are definitely more limited the further south you go. There aren't many big law firms in the Devon / Cornwall area so it can be quite competitive especially if you're aiming for the higher salaries (definitely don't expect London salaries in this area though)

[britgirl]

Hi, I can't help about transferring the degree I'm afraid (hubby's currently in the process of doing it the other way around). We live in the South West and whilst you should be fine in Bristol, the options are definitely more limited the further south you go. There aren't many big law firms in the Devon / Cornwall area so it can be quite competitive especially if you're aiming for the higher salaries (definitely don't expect London salaries in this area though)

 

Hey there,

Thinking more Bristol/Bournemouth/Poole/Southampton/Salisbury. So quite big cities in that South region. Good to know about Bristol though

[VERYSTORMY]

it depends to some extent on what career you see yourself going into. If you are thinking law, then you will probably have to do the CPE in the UK and this will cost about the same as just transferring now and paying international fees, though if you transfer now, you would likely get some credits in the UK uni and may be able to avoid first year, meaning you would only have 2 years to do. Then of course either LPC or Bar

[Guest]

Hello!

Unfortunately have found myself halfway through a degree in Australia, planning to move to UK within next 3 years for family reasons.

Studying Law (Honours) and Arts (International Relations and French) at the Australian National University. 2.5 years in, 2.5 to go.

Options:

1) Quit and waste all this work/money, move to UK September, start Uni fresh there - would have to pay international fees...

2) Finish degree, move immediately to UK a) do post grad b) try and find graduate position

3) Finish degree, work in Aus 1-2 years, transfer to UK

 

I think 3 is easiest (1 is just unreasonable), 2 is my preference with the post grad because then I still get a bit of UK Uni experience.

What are your guys thoughts? And does anyone have any experience transferring Law degrees from Aus-UK - is it hard? Expensive? Lengthy process?

 

Job prospects (probably grim?) in UK - based in South West - London, Hampshire, Dorset, Bristol... ?

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm a English qualified lawyer who tried to requalify over here in Oz.

 

My comments for what they are worth:

 

1. If you ever want to work in Australia as a lawyer, get the degree and work experience in Australia. UK qualifications are not always regarded as equivalent in Australia, no matter how prestigious the uni you went to. I know as I'm in that position right now and have been told I would have to retake a minimum of four subjects at a cost of $16,000 in order to be able to get my Vic practising certificate. That's without any guarantee of a job so it's an expensive risk....

 

2. Depending on what area of law you want to work in in the UK and whether you want to work in private practice or in-house will determine whether you have to retake any exams in the UK. I worked in-house in the UK and there were loads of Aussie / NZ lawyers working there, none of whom had re-qualified under English law. England is just much more open-minded about that sort of thing and will look at your experience rather than whether you have the local qualifications (although my experience is only London-based so other areas might be different). All of the Aussie lawyers I know could get a job pretty much straight away and had no problems with the fact that they were qualified in a different jurisdiction. Compare that to me: I'm 6 years PAE, have legal qualifications from excellent universities and have worked at some of the top institutions and law firms and just cannot find a job for two reasons: I am not Vic qualified and do not have any local experience, despite having European, American and UK experience! I thought I would be snapped up by an Australian law firm and have been turned away from every firm I've applied to which is very disheartening. Even if you work in private practice in the UK, a lot of the bigger firms will let you work under supervision whilst you get your Qualified Foreign Lawyer certificate (which I believe costs approx. £3,000 - still expensive but nowhere near as expensive as the Australian equivalent).

 

3. Job prospects are excellent in London (at the moment anyway) if you have about 2-5 years PAE - you're cheap (compared to more senior lawyers), have some experience (so don't need your hand held) and should have just enough experience to hit the ground running (less training).

 

Personally I would continue your degree in Oz and get some local experience at a decent-sized law firm (as that will stand you in better stead than a small high-street practice). Take all of that over to the UK (pref London) and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

 

Whilst I'm exceptionally bitter at the ease with which Aussie lawyers can work in the UK vs. how hard it is for English lawyers to work in Australia (can you tell!!!???!!!), UK experience cannot be beaten. You will be exposed to some of the best work you will do in your professional life and, if you return to Australia, will be a far better lawyer for your UK experience.

[roverallover]

Hello Britgirl,

 

I am going through the same post-grad issue, so I can relate... I already hold a Masters and am completing another, both here in Australia. I am moving to the UK in July with 8 subjects to go and my wife has 3, we have been able to continue to completion our Australian studies as Australians and without affecting our study benefits. It is straightforward to organise exam adjudication overseas.

 

As far as the UK is concerned, there is a 3 year waiting period before (as a UK resident or citizen) you are entitled to access UK student funding or loans if you have lived overseas for more than 3 years, this includes children moving from secondary to tertiary.

 

Hope that helps

[Racmac]

I'm a English qualified lawyer who tried to requalify over here in Oz.

 

My comments for what they are worth:

 

1. If you ever want to work in Australia as a lawyer, get the degree and work experience in Australia. UK qualifications are not always regarded as equivalent in Australia, no matter how prestigious the uni you went to. I know as I'm in that position right now and have been told I would have to retake a minimum of four subjects at a cost of $16,000 in order to be able to get my Vic practising certificate. That's without any guarantee of a job so it's an expensive risk....

 

2. Depending on what area of law you want to work in in the UK and whether you want to work in private practice or in-house will determine whether you have to retake any exams in the UK. I worked in-house in the UK and there were loads of Aussie / NZ lawyers working there, none of whom had re-qualified under English law. England is just much more open-minded about that sort of thing and will look at your experience rather than whether you have the local qualifications (although my experience is only London-based so other areas might be different). All of the Aussie lawyers I know could get a job pretty much straight away and had no problems with the fact that they were qualified in a different jurisdiction. Compare that to me: I'm 6 years PAE, have legal qualifications from excellent universities and have worked at some of the top institutions and law firms and just cannot find a job for two reasons: I am not Vic qualified and do not have any local experience, despite having European, American and UK experience! I thought I would be snapped up by an Australian law firm and have been turned away from every firm I've applied to which is very disheartening. Even if you work in private practice in the UK, a lot of the bigger firms will let you work under supervision whilst you get your Qualified Foreign Lawyer certificate (which I believe costs approx. £3,000 - still expensive but nowhere near as expensive as the Australian equivalent).

 

3. Job prospects are excellent in London (at the moment anyway) if you have about 2-5 years PAE - you're cheap (compared to more senior lawyers), have some experience (so don't need your hand held) and should have just enough experience to hit the ground running (less training).

 

Personally I would continue your degree in Oz and get some local experience at a decent-sized law firm (as that will stand you in better stead than a small high-street practice). Take all of that over to the UK (pref London) and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

 

Whilst I'm exceptionally bitter at the ease with which Aussie lawyers can work in the UK vs. how hard it is for English lawyers to work in Australia (can you tell!!!???!!!), UK experience cannot be beaten. You will be exposed to some of the best work you will do in your professional life and, if you return to Australia, will be a far better lawyer for your UK experience.

 

I am currently requalifying in Aus and its not costing me anywhere near $16000. What subjects have you been told to do?

 

I'm not surprised you've been unsuccessful in securing a position as you cant actually work as a lawyer - they would be employing you as a lawyer but you cant work as one.

[Guest]

I am currently requalifying in Aus and its not costing me anywhere near $16000. What subjects have you been told to do?

 

I'm not surprised you've been unsuccessful in securing a position as you cant actually work as a lawyer - they would be employing you as a lawyer but you cant work as one.

 

I've been told I have to do Fed & Constitutional Law, Administrative Law, Trust & Office Accounting, and Professional Responsibility & Ethics - $4,000 per subject.

 

What subjects are doing and where?

 

In terms of securing work, I have other qualifications that I can use as I have worked in other business areas, but still can't find work even in those areas. Same old story: no local experience, couldn't possibly understand the Australian financial markets etc....

[Racmac]

I've been told I have to do Fed & Constitutional Law, Administrative Law, Trust & Office Accounting, and Professional Responsibility & Ethics - $4,000 per subject.

 

What subjects are doing and where?

 

In terms of securing work, I have other qualifications that I can use as I have worked in other business areas, but still can't find work even in those areas. Same old story: no local experience, couldn't possibly understand the Australian financial markets etc....

 

Well I have been told to study constitutional law which I am doing online with UNE and that's cost $2533 plus $200 to take exam in uk.

 

the professional responsibility and accounts I studied online with college of law and they cost $1236 each. So if the administrative law also cost $2533 you would be looking at a cost of $7538 in total. I don't understand where you got figure of $4000 each. Hope that helps anyway.

[Guest]

Well I have been told to study constitutional law which I am doing online with UNE and that's cost $2533 plus $200 to take exam in uk.

 

the professional responsibility and accounts I studied online with college of law and they cost $1236 each. So if the administrative law also cost $2533 you would be looking at a cost of $7538 in total. I don't understand where you got figure of $4000 each. Hope that helps anyway.

 

Ah well that explains it... I'm in Australia already and the figure of $4,000 per subject came from the University of Melbourne's Law Department.

[starlight7]

Uni of Melb is probably the most expensive though- can't you do it elsewhere? I know Melb uni is supposedly the best but there are other equivalent courses and who will ask where you studied in the long run? La Trobe do law and so do Monash ( think Monash is probably pricey too)

[Racmac]

Ah well that explains it... I'm in Australia already and the figure of $4,000 per subject came from the University of Melbourne's Law Department.

 

You don't have to study at Melbourne Uni though, do it online and go for cheaper options

[Guest]

Uni of Melb is probably the most expensive though- can't you do it elsewhere? I know Melb uni is supposedly the best but there are other equivalent courses and who will ask where you studied in the long run? La Trobe do law and so do Monash ( think Monash is probably pricey too)

 

Oh I couldn't agree more, but unfortunately nowhere else appears to allow you to study single subjects. All of the others require you to do the full course which is even more expensive....

[Guest]

You don't have to study at Melbourne Uni though, do it online and go for cheaper options

 

VLAB has said they only accept qualifications from approved institutions and no online options were available. I contacted all of the "approved institutions" and only Melbourne Uni offered single study subjects...

[Racmac]

VLAB has said they only accept qualifications from approved institutions and no online options were available. I contacted all of the "approved institutions" and only Melbourne Uni offered single study subjects...

 

 

WALPB gave me permission to do elsewhere other than WA unis. I just emailed them and said the one on their list wanted constitutional law as 2 units and therefore twice the cost and here is where I want to goo. They said that was fine and hence I'm nearly finished.

[Marlou]

Hi @Racmac and @londoner in melbourne

 

Even if the VLAB don't allow an overseas lawyer to study the required subjects in another State, (Which I actually think they do permit, based on the Uniform Admission Rules and the list of approved Australian institutions published on their site for the LLB/JD), presumably an alternative is to seek a qualifications assessment from the Legal Admissions Board in another State where course fees are cheaper (e.g. NSW), study the subjects with a uni in said State, subsequently apply to be admitted in said State, then apply for a practising certificate in Victoria with the Legal Services Board (on the basis of being admitted as an "Australian lawyer", I.e. You'd be treated like any other inter-state applicant)?

 

Any holes in that approach?

 

I'm keen to keep costs down as based on the Uniform Principles, someone from my jurisdiction would typically be required to study 4-5 of the academic subjects, plus the two PLT subjects (Professional Ethics and Trust Accounting). It all adds up when Victorian unis are charging between $3-$3.8k per academic subject, plus the lower costs for the PLT subjects...

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Racmac]

Hi @Racmac and @londoner in melbourne

 

Even if the VLAB don't allow an overseas lawyer to study the required subjects in another State, (Which I actually think they do permit, based on the Uniform Admission Rules and the list of approved Australian institutions published on their site for the LLB/JD), presumably an alternative is to seek a qualifications assessment from the Legal Admissions Board in another State where course fees are cheaper (e.g. NSW), study the subjects with a uni in said State, subsequently apply to be admitted in said State, then apply for a practising certificate in Victoria with the Legal Services Board (on the basis of being admitted as an "Australian lawyer", I.e. You'd be treated like any other inter-state applicant)?

 

Any holes in that approach?

 

I'm keen to keep costs down as based on the Uniform Principles, someone from my jurisdiction would typically be required to study 4-5 of the academic subjects, plus the two PLT subjects (Professional Ethics and Trust Accounting). It all adds up when Victorian unis are charging between $3-$3.8k per academic subject, plus the lower costs for the PLT subjects...

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

As I said above ask that particular board if you can take exams elsewhere. All I did is email WALPB and send them copy of the course description and an explanation of why I wanted to study it at that uni and they replied immediately and said absolutely fine.

 

but yes I can't see a problem with your plan other than I'm not an expert !

[Guest]

Hi @Racmac and @londoner in melbourne

 

Even if the VLAB don't allow an overseas lawyer to study the required subjects in another State, (Which I actually think they do permit, based on the Uniform Admission Rules and the list of approved Australian institutions published on their site for the LLB/JD), presumably an alternative is to seek a qualifications assessment from the Legal Admissions Board in another State where course fees are cheaper (e.g. NSW), study the subjects with a uni in said State, subsequently apply to be admitted in said State, then apply for a practising certificate in Victoria with the Legal Services Board (on the basis of being admitted as an "Australian lawyer", I.e. You'd be treated like any other inter-state applicant)?

 

Any holes in that approach?

 

I'm keen to keep costs down as based on the Uniform Principles, someone from my jurisdiction would typically be required to study 4-5 of the academic subjects, plus the two PLT subjects (Professional Ethics and Trust Accounting). It all adds up when Victorian unis are charging between $3-$3.8k per academic subject, plus the lower costs for the PLT subjects...

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

The only gap that I can see is that I read somewhere that when you qualify in one state, you are required to work in that state for a period (I don't know what time period that is) before you can then apply to another state for cross-state qualification. I can't remember where I read this (i.e. official position or commentary) but it should be something that you check. I would also check that NSW has courses that you can do via distance learning and see where you can take the exams, as if you're required to sit the exams in NSW the cost of flying in and out plus accom might outweigh the fact that the initial course is cheaper...