Turning back boats, the new normal?

[MARYROSE02]

In your opinion obviously flag. A few ill coping cities:laugh: They are some of the nicest, well designed cities I've ever been to, not noticed any of them not coping well.

 

Interesting on the radio this morning the Islamic Council Founding president was on calling for tightening of Australia's immigration policies, admitting that Muslims integrated into Aus better a couple of generations ago and saying that the Council had been almost taken over by radicals.

 

Mr Sali also said there was a widening gulf between Muslims who had integrated into Australian society and those who had not.

 

 

 

 

Audio: Calls from within Muslim community to tighten migration policies to counter Islamic State threat (AM)

 

"Sometimes the truth has to be faced and if the truth is awkward, then it has to be faced anyway, and I really do believe we have to be more careful about who we let into this country and who we grant refugee status to, because I think it's just getting beyond a joke quite frankly," he said.

"There are people who unfortunately don't appreciate the great freedom that we have in this nation and the opportunities that are available if people live by the law and do the right thing."

He said a classic example was Sydney siege shooter Man Haron Monis, the self-styled radical cleric with a violent past who he said Australian authorities "tolerated to the nth degree".

 

By any standards, looking at what has been achieved in little over two hundred years, starting from practically nothing, Australia has been a remarkable success, especially when you compare Australia to so many other countries, as rich as Australia, and with histories stretching back thousands of years.

 

Australia's cities developed along the coast because that is where they needed to be. Many of the USA's biggest cities are along the coastline, and if they are inland, they are invariably located on major inland waterways..

[gee13]

By any standards, looking at what has been achieved in little over two hundred years, starting from practically nothing, Australia has been a remarkable success, especially when you compare Australia to so many other countries, as rich as Australia, and with histories stretching back thousands of years.

 

Australia's cities developed along the coast because that is where they needed to be. Many of the USA's biggest cities are along the coastline, and if they are inland, they are invariably located on major inland waterways..

 

Dont forget that the history stretching back tens of thousands of years was almost eradicated in the process...in just over 2 of those hundred years.. and without the exploitation of abundant land resources.. yes we wouldnt be what we are now...

[gee13]

Lets just say hypothetically...If a country like Sweden or Denmark had a political coup and refugees from that country chose to arrive as asylum seekers by boat, I wonder how many of you against the current refugees arriving from a more 'non desirable' 'non- european' background or culture.... would feel.

[flag of convenience]

Which specific fascist policies have the 'so called ' Western Democracies adopted? Suspension of democracy? Banning of all other political parties, executing thousands of dissidents, and sending tens of thousands more to 'The Gulag?' Invading their neighbours?

 

Communism is and was as bad as fascism, witness the number of their own people killed by the USSR, far more than Hitler could even have dreamed of killing, but unfortuately so many naive 'fellow travellers' in the West venerated 'Comrade Stalin.' Democracy was the check on Communism, not the other way around.

 

I suppose if you want a body count then add the millions slaughtered during the Vietnam War. Scorched Earth Policy. Bombing of Laos and Cambodia which had more bombs dropped on it care of Uncle Sam than were dispensed during WW2. Add to that the tens of thousands that fled in terror due to propaganda in flimsy boats at sea.

Not forgetting the dirty wars in Central and South America. The many thousands that were slaughtered in Chile, due to American support of right wing military regime to rid a populist elected government. El Salvador? etc.

 

But what I mainly refer to is the study of policy of control of populations and the relentless assault on freedoms. Rather hard to distinguish at times.

[flag of convenience]

Lets just say hypothetically...If a country like Sweden or Denmark had a political coup and refugees from that country chose to arrive as asylum seekers by boat, I wonder how many of you against the current refugees arriving from a more 'non desirable' 'non- european' background or culture.... would feel.

 

I think it goes without saying (though some have expressed as much) it is about cultural and racial difference. Those that have fled in fear from UK inner cities unable to adapt to changes in the hood. Foreign food. Languages they don't understand. Tabloid sensationalism. Vague thoughts of Australia as a country of English refuge from the vulgarities of the world. Mustn't allow others in to burst the bubble.

[flag of convenience]

By any standards, looking at what has been achieved in little over two hundred years, starting from practically nothing, Australia has been a remarkable success, especially when you compare Australia to so many other countries, as rich as Australia, and with histories stretching back thousands of years.

 

Australia's cities developed along the coast because that is where they needed to be. Many of the USA's biggest cities are along the coastline, and if they are inland, they are invariably located on major inland waterways..

 

Rather badly designed and planed if the truth be known. Still the country was built up thanks to the abundance of resources and in earlier times wool and grain. Israel is a country to look at to see how development of hostile land can take place.

[Rallyman]

On what grounds have people fled in fear from UK cities ?

[flag of convenience]

In your opinion obviously flag. A few ill coping cities:laugh: They are some of the nicest, well designed cities I've ever been to, not noticed any of them not coping well.

 

Interesting on the radio this morning the Islamic Council Founding president was on calling for tightening of Australia's immigration policies, admitting that Muslims integrated into Aus better a couple of generations ago and saying that the Council had been almost taken over by radicals.

 

Mr Sali also said there was a widening gulf between Muslims who had integrated into Australian society and those who had not.

 

 

 

 

Audio: Calls from within Muslim community to tighten migration policies to counter Islamic State threat (AM)

 

"Sometimes the truth has to be faced and if the truth is awkward, then it has to be faced anyway, and I really do believe we have to be more careful about who we let into this country and who we grant refugee status to, because I think it's just getting beyond a joke quite frankly," he said.

"There are people who unfortunately don't appreciate the great freedom that we have in this nation and the opportunities that are available if people live by the law and do the right thing."

He said a classic example was Sydney siege shooter Man Haron Monis, the self-styled radical cleric with a violent past who he said Australian authorities "tolerated to the nth degree".

 

No pretty much any urban designer would tell you the same. In fact urban planning was and remains a great interest of mine The sprawling mass found in Australian cities is hardly either attractive or practical in economic terms. Poor infrastructure and over reliance on the motor vehicle. Many suburbs designed more for social isolation than community.

Of course there are attractive localities as everywhere. There are signs that lessons are being learnt. My City council is certainly taking initiatives. I do communicate with them and give credit where due.

Perth was poorly designed, if design is the word. Read up on how it spread and the thinking of the post war years that set the seeds of bad planning in motion.

 

I can only say you haven't had the fortune I have if consider Australian cities as being some of the best designed you have seen.

[flag of convenience]

On what grounds have people fled in fear from UK cities ?

 

Read back on some of the posts and all will be revealed. Hardly PHD stuff.The fear of immigration and its apparent impacts on the Great British way of live, I expect being close to the top.

[Paul1Perth]

Lets just say hypothetically...If a country like Sweden or Denmark had a political coup and refugees from that country chose to arrive as asylum seekers by boat, I wonder how many of you against the current refugees arriving from a more 'non desirable' 'non- european' background or culture.... would feel.

 

That's the whole point though isn't it gee? letting the wrong people in can mess the whole country up for everybody. The points system sort of does that too, keeps some people out that would just be a drain on resources.

[Paul1Perth]

Dont forget that the history stretching back tens of thousands of years was almost eradicated in the process...in just over 2 of those hundred years.. and without the exploitation of abundant land resources.. yes we wouldnt be what we are now...

 

That's just about what any other successful country has done though gee. The reason Aus was claimed by the crown all those years ago was because of the abundant resources. Good place to send convicts to was just a bonus. I think they made the best of it and there's still loads of resources left for us to still make money out of. Both on the land and under the sea. Not many places (if any) in the World would be in a better position, as long as resources hold their price.

[Paul1Perth]

Rather badly designed and planed if the truth be known. Still the country was built up thanks to the abundance of resources and in earlier times wool and grain. Israel is a country to look at to see how development of hostile land can take place.

 

I don't believe you are saying Israel is some sort of success story are you?:confused:

[Paul1Perth]

On what grounds have people fled in fear from UK cities ?

 

I think flag is having a pop at some of us that have emigrated Rallyman.:wink:

[gee13]

That's just about what any other successful country has done though gee. The reason Aus was claimed by the crown all those years ago was because of the abundant resources. Good place to send convicts to was just a bonus. I think they made the best of it and there's still loads of resources left for us to still make money out of. Both on the land and under the sea. Not many places (if any) in the World would be in a better position, as long as resources hold their price.

 

The claim was more of a default as neither the French nor Dutch nor Chinese even before them..for that matter saw any potential circa 17-18 century.. and part of that was extreme distance to travel to....the convicts were sent as it was one of the farthest place on the known oceanic chart south of hemisphere.. colonisation was just a bi- product of convict settlement.. only later on was it realised and discovered ....gold etc...

[Paul1Perth]

The claim was a default as neither the French nor Dutch nor Chinese for that matter saw any potential circa 17-18 century.. and part of that was extreme distance to travel to....the convicts were sent as it was one of the farthest place on the known oceanic chart south of hemisphere.. colonisation was just a bi- product of convict settlement.. only later on was it realised and discovered ....gold etc...

 

Their loss was our gain Gee.

[gee13]

That's the whole point though isn't it gee? letting the wrong people in can mess the whole country up for everybody. The points system sort of does that too, keeps some people out that would just be a drain on resources.

 

Yes but my point is how do we know these Swedes and Danes are not the 'wrong' people.. after all their ancestors were despised as evil invaders of Britain.... :wink: or are we turning a blind eye just because of what they are presently perceived as ... on the outside.. ?

[gee13]

Their loss was our gain Gee.

 

Dont disagree here paul... but my point that the commonwealth didnt originally see Oz as a colony because of its 'potential' resource sector.. it was seen as a penal colony. The worst of it being Van Diemens land.... (present Tasmania)

[Paul1Perth]

Yes but my point is how do we know these Swedes and Danes are not the 'wrong' people.. after all their ancestors were despised as evil invaders of Britain.... :wink: or are we turning a blind eye just because of what they are presently perceived as ... on the outside.. ?

 

Well if those Swedes and Danes don't make the points they won't be getting in will they. Just like coming from the UK and you don't make the points. I think as long as anyone is coming with the intention of integrating, not bringing their troubles with them, then they could fit in no problem.

[gee13]

Well if those Swedes and Danes don't make the points they won't be getting in will they. Just like coming from the UK and you don't make the points. I think as long as anyone is coming with the intention of integrating, not bringing their troubles with them, then they could fit in no problem.

 

Yes but prospective 'migrants' and 'refugees' do not come under the same entrance requirements.

 

We are talking asylum seekers and refugees here.

[Paul1Perth]

Yes but prospective 'migrants' and 'refugees' do not come under the same entrance requirements.

 

We are talking asylum seekers and refugees here.

 

They should be looked at on a case by case basis and if they are not proved to be refugees, with a threat to their life if they are sent back to wherever, then they should be sent back. All this takes enormous amounts of time and manpower though. Especially for people whos first language is not English, aren't co-operative in helping and don't have any papers to say where they are from, who they are, how old and why they are fleeing. In the meantime they should be held, just like they are being.

 

What's your views on the Muslim guys comments on how Australia's refugee intake needs to be tightened up. First time I've heard a Muslim leader admit there's a problem and not just be asking the government to sort it out.

[gee13]

Yes I agree that they should be assessed case by case however public opinion (and that which has been expressed on this thread) is that there is little care or hope in the world that they will get in here just because they are from Iraq, Afghanistan, Burma or (list African country of choice here).

 

Im not disagreeing that refugee intake should be limited but Im seeing a blanket lack of compassion because the refugees in question here come from 'these' countries.

[Rallyman]

Flag you are talking nonsense, if people are fleeing the UK in fear then anybody from the UK should be able to claim asylum as in your view if you arrive in oz and claim asylum you should just be let in ,in all the threads on this you have yet to still come up with a a fair system. your answer is to simply let them in with no checks on who they actually are.

Are you Australian by birth or did you seek asylum here or just go through the process that every one else has to to gain entry here .

if it's as bad as you make out why are you still living in Australia

[Paul1Perth]

Yes I agree that they should be assessed case by case however public opinion (and that which has been expressed on this thread) is that there is little care or hope in the world that they will get in here just because they are from Iraq, Afghanistan, Burma or (list African country of choice here).

 

Im not disagreeing that refugee intake should be limited but Im seeing a blanket lack of compassion because the refugees in question here come from 'these' countries.

 

I think there's every chance, even if done on a case by case basis that people from those countries would be turned back. It's not because of where they came from though. It's because they either pose a threat to Australia's security, or aren't really refugees.

 

The Somali's have already started causing trouble in Perth. There's been cases of them walking roud the City in gangs, attacking people and claiming it as their "turf". I suppose they thought they could get away with it but they actually caught a few and did something about it. They don't exactly make themselves welcome do they?

[Rallyman]

I had first had experience with the Somalis back in the UK , like what is happening in Perth they did the same in Liverpool, they would go around in packs ,groped young girls and would always Carry knifes they certainly did not want to mix into a UK life style

[Paul1Perth]

I had first had experience with the Somalis back in the UK , like what is happening in Perth they did the same in Liverpool, they would go around in packs ,groped young girls and would always Carry knifes they certainly did not want to mix into a UK life style

 

Never their fault though. It's because of where they grew up, lack of parental supervision, no jobs, feeling of being outsiders, being picked on by the cops, living in a bad area. If you're a defence lawyer use any one of those and it should get them off.:wink: