Advice on the southern suburbs of Greater London anyone?

[JaneSmith]

Hello again compatriots,

Ok, I'm getting organised to buy a house in greater London while I'm still in Australia. Can't get over there to check them out in person and have to mainly rely on what I can do remotely as far as the house-hunting process goes. I've worked out the neighbourhoods I can afford, however I'm not familiar with any of them, having been in Oz for the past 30 odd years. My family members in the UK all live in more central London in tiny flats, and don't know much about the outlying 'burbs. But with pre-teen children, I want a house, and call me a control freak if you will, but I want freehold, not leasehold over what I sink my meagre resources into. These are the suburbs I seem able to afford (assuming the exchange rate doesn't do anything overly dramatic in the next little while - Thornton Heath, South Norwood, Plumstead, Eltham, Crayford, and at pinch, some bits of Bromley, Welling and Sidcup. (I can also afford Abbey Wood and Dartford, but I can't find much positive written about these as great areas for families, so I've figured to avoid these) Trying to get a handle on what these locations might be like to live in just based on internet searches of things people have said about them in the past is a bit touch and go - a lot of commentaries seem to be a few years old and some of the locations may have changed in the last couple of years. So can anyone out there maybe provide a little advice in terms of which might be the pick of the bunch; and which (if any) should be avoided, providing reasons? In general I'd like to live in a pleasant suburb, preferably with a bit of character, but safe and with nice neighbours (ie. reasonably educated, pleasant, friendly) - I realise one can't guarantee what neighbours will be like anywhere, but chances of problematic neighbours might be higher in some places than others. Also need train or tube access so getting to work won't be too difficult (once I've found a job), hence nice leafy villages further out are not practical. I particularly want to keep the children away from drugs and violence as much as possible...so, of the suburbs above, if anyone can provide any advice, I'd be most appreciative.

[simmo]

Plumstead: Some nice parts large victorian houses around the common but a bit run down IMO 5/10

 

Eltham: Better, a decent high street good public transport, large parks and historic bits eltham palace avery hill ect.. good schools. Look around the Eltham Park area its the best bit IMO 8/10

 

Crayford: Bit of a chav town IMO but some nice bits, I just built 3 houses there for a developer http://www.cliftonandco.co.uk/property/crayford/4-bedroom-end-of-terrace-house-for-sale-in-crayford/full_details_adv/626959 if you are interested let me know (i might be able to get a good deal) There is a very good haberdashers ask school there http://www.haaf.org.uk/crayford-academy 5.5/10

 

Bromley: Some very nice parts but be careful Bromley is a large borough and covers some not so nice areas. 8/10

 

Welling: Good area good transport links, lovely park (danson Park) large supermarkets shopping. 7/10

 

Sidcup. This would be my pick. good schools, loads of parks, good high street, pubs, restaurants ect.. the train line id better than the bexleyheath line (welling) 20mins into town 8.5/10

 

Abbey Wood: Has a bit of a bad name, upper abbey wood is OK but not much around TBH the shopping would be in lower belvedere and thats a hole andits proximity to abbeywood (lower) and thamesmead is a bit to close for comfort. It not far fronm belvedere village and bostal heath which is a better option IMO 4/10

 

Dartford: Another chav town, I personally hate the place but TBH its not a dangerious place or anything just chavvy IMO 3.5/10

 

If you see anything you like let me know because I know these areas well and could possibly help more about more specifice areas (streets and stuff).

[JaneSmith]

Wow, thanks for such a quick response! That's really helpful Simmo. Those houses in Crayford look like what I'm looking for but quite a bit out of my price range unfortunately. So your picks would be Sidcup, Eltham and bits of Bromley. Do you have an opinion on Thornton Heath at all? :rolleyes:

[simmo]

Wow, thanks for such a quick response! That's really helpful Simmo. Those houses in Crayford look like what I'm looking for but quite a bit out of my price range unfortunately. So your picks would be Sidcup, Eltham and bits of Bromley. Do you have an opinion on Thornton Heath at all? :rolleyes:

 

I've only passed through it a a times but it looks nice enough.

[Jimbo and Monika]

I'd avoid Thornton Heath, and Norwood for that matter - run down, generally quite poor and populated with undesirables.

 

Have you considered Beckenham? It's lovely and not too pricey, borders the nicer parts of Bromley - Shortlands too is very nice.

 

Otherwise I would concur with Simmo on the rest.

[jen85]

Thanks Simmo thats really good info for all of us!

[simmo]

I'd avoid Thornton Heath, and Norwood for that matter - run down, generally quite poor and populated with undesirables.

 

Have you considered Beckenham? It's lovely and not too pricey, borders the nicer parts of Bromley - Shortlands too is very nice.

 

Otherwise I would concur with Simmo on the rest.

 

Beckenham... yes very nice.

[JaneSmith]

....Beckeham and Shortlands...on my budget, what look like even ex-council flats in Beckenham are in short supply. I don't want to move back, after decades working here, to bring my children up in an ex-council flat....Is chav something like being a bogan? It's not a term I recall from when I lived in the UK previously and I'm still trying to understand exactly what it means. My difficulty is, that's the price bracket I'm in. Is Downham one of the better parts of Bromley by any chance? :frown: ...that's about the only part of Bromley that seems to fall within budget. Also, with Thornton Heath, Zoopla indicates that it has about the UK average for senior managers and professionals, and quite a bit more than the UK average for reading the Guardian and the Independent. I agree, it also seems to have about twice the UK average for unemployed people...that seems to be par for the course anywhere that I can afford..There are also higher than numbers of single parent families....but we're in that group ourselves.:huh: As forewarned might help me be fore-armed....if I were to live in Thornton Heath (eg. due to being unable to afford anywhere else) what are the aspects of 'undesirables' should I beware of particularly for myself and my children?:confused:

[flag of convenience]

Croydon appears to be on the up. A Westfields shopping centre will transform the area, just as it done for Shepherds Bush, one of my old stomping grounds. Further to that new rail links are to be added (tube) so although it doesn't have the best of reputations it certainly looks on the up and price wise not too bad.

I agree Beckenham would be my choice of the areas listed, although don't know some of them.

[Jimbo and Monika]

Sorry flag, but I would avoid Croydon like the plague for a good few years yet!

 

If safety is your main concern, I would get something in one of the better areas. Anything! Have a look at http://www.kfh.com as they are big in the area. I know you can get a spacious 2 or 3 bed flat for 250 - 280k in Beckenham. If you are on a budget you may want to reconsider whether you really need a house, imo.

 

A Chav is basically a more feral, violent version of a bogan. They tend to hunt in packs with assorted weaponry and make most normal people housebound after dark. Sadly much of South London generally is awash with these degenerates, one of the main reasons we left 18 months ago. Not meaning to put you off of course as I do miss it! I don't know Downham, sorry.

 

I appreciate it is difficult to research these areas from afar, but for such a huge decision, despite being on a budget, I would seriously consider getting over there for a week or two's holiday and see for yourself. Hire a car and drive through areas like Thornton Heath and Croydon - if you come out the other side with your hub caps and windows in tact, they could be just the areas for you! Seriously though, a few thousand bucks spent now could save you ten times that down the line should you make a bad call.

[JaneSmith]

Simmo, as you mentioned you might know a bit about particular streets, do you have an opinion on Ridge Way, Crayford at all? Also, Downham in Bromley?:unsure:

[flag of convenience]

Sorry flag, but I would avoid Croydon like the plague for a good few years yet!

 

If safety is your main concern, I would get something in one of the better areas. Anything! Have a look at www.kfh.com as they are big in the area. I know you can get a spacious 2 or 3 bed flat for 250 - 280k in Beckenham. If you are on a budget you may want to reconsider whether you really need a house, imo.

 

A Chav is basically a more feral, violent version of a bogan. They tend to hunt in packs with assorted weaponry and make most normal people housebound after dark. Sadly much of South London generally is awash with these degenerates, one of the main reasons we left 18 months ago. Not meaning to put you off of course as I do miss it! I don't know Downham, sorry.

 

I appreciate it is difficult to research these areas from afar, but for such a huge decision, despite being on a budget, I would seriously consider getting over there for a week or two's holiday and see for yourself. Hire a car and drive through areas like Thornton Heath and Croydon - if you come out the other side with your hub caps and windows in tact, they could be just the areas for you! Seriously though, a few thousand bucks spent now could save you ten times that down the line should you make a bad call.

 

Croydon has its better areas and as I suggested is on its way up. Folk said similar things about Shepherds Bush thirty years back. Croydon as I said has a reputation but as does a lot of South London. One has to live where one can afford with a degree of comfort as well.

 

My view is the word Chav (Council Housed and Violent) is a term way over used IMO in order to denigrate those at the bottom or struggling in society. These folk are nothing new, perhaps more of them as the pile is less evenly spread ....but the putdowns is a great example of tabloid language gaining common currency.

[JaneSmith]

Hello again, I've looked up the term 'Chav' on Wikipedia and I can see why I'm not familiar with it - apparently it's only been in currency a few years (a relief, I was starting to feel really worried about being incredibly out of touch!). There's interesting discussion of it at this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav . I've a feeling there must be a lot of relatively involved between area, because I've read various people on Yahoo stating they moved to Croydon because it was more cultural and educated than Essex. Yet others have told me that Essex is lovely...I did do a visit over recently. I didn't get the impression people were all that concerned about armed gangs as a general rule. Petty theft and stuff seemed to be a problem all over London though, even the expensive parts.

 

...By the way, does anyone by any chance know of any buying agents who work at my lowly end of the real estate spectrum? :wubclub:

[Jimbo and Monika]

Croydon has its better areas and as I suggested is on its way up. Folk said similar things about Shepherds Bush thirty years back. Croydon as I said has a reputation but as does a lot of South London. One has to live where one can afford with a degree of comfort as well.

 

My view is the word Chav (Council Housed and Violent) is a term way over used IMO in order to denigrate those at the bottom or struggling in society. These folk are nothing new, perhaps more of them as the pile is less evenly spread ....but the putdowns is a great example of tabloid language gaining common currency.

 

Council housed and violent - would that term exist if they didn't, you know, exist? No smoke without fire etc. And there was no need to make me out to be some white van man, I don't get my opinions from the Sun - there is an underclass, some through no fault of their own. But it is there, so forget the bleeding heart lefty sh*te, when your mate gets knifed at 5pm on the train home and your missus gets mugged at knifepoint at 7am at Lewisham station to some crack head, come back to me.

 

Sorry for the rant folks, as you were.

[flag of convenience]

Council housed and violent - would that term exist if they didn't, you know, exist? No smoke without fire etc. And there was no need to make me out to be some white van man, I don't get my opinions from the Sun - there is an underclass, some through no fault of their own. But it is there, so forget the bleeding heart lefty sh*te, when your mate gets knifed at 5pm on the train home and your missus gets mugged at knifepoint at 7am at Lewisham station to some crack head, come back to me.

 

Sorry for the rant folks, as you were.

 

I won't wait for then and hopefully it doesn't happen. Nothing to do with lefty s..te , as I said the term is a form of abuse of the under class. If your misses is knifed by a crack head he is but that. Not all chavs are crack heads or violent. As I say a term loosely used to describe an underclass that are hardly new to the scene.

[flag of convenience]

Hello again, I've looked up the term 'Chav' on Wikipedia and I can see why I'm not familiar with it - apparently it's only been in currency a few years (a relief, I was starting to feel really worried about being incredibly out of touch!). There's interesting discussion of it at this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav . I've a feeling there must be a lot of relatively involved between area, because I've read various people on Yahoo stating they moved to Croydon because it was more cultural and educated than Essex. Yet others have told me that Essex is lovely...I did do a visit over recently. I didn't get the impression people were all that concerned about armed gangs as a general rule. Petty theft and stuff seemed to be a problem all over London though, even the expensive parts.

 

...By the way, does anyone by any chance know of any buying agents who work at my lowly end of the real estate spectrum? :wubclub:

 

You could do worse than Croydon. Rough in spots but where isn't in South London? I know folk living there who are content enough....

[boganbear]

I would avoid London completely. I lived there for 10 years and the best thing I did was leave

[simmo]

the best thing I did was leave

agreed!

[simmo]

Simmo, as you mentioned you might know a bit about particular streets, do you have an opinion on Ridge Way, Crayford at all? Also, Downham in Bromley?:unsure:

Downham is one of the biggest council estates in the country stay away IMO

[Guest51810]

I would avoid London completely. I lived there for 10 years and the best thing I did was leave

 

You can't of hated it that much if you stayed for that long!

[flag of convenience]

London is a great city to live. Especially without kids. Tailor made for two DINKS. Not for everybody granted but to live in a world city is rather unique for those that get off of those sorts of things.

Changes in the past two decades especially the reliance increasingly on the finance industry turned me off the place as the areas I lived became increasingly expensive and introverted. Just wasn't the same place anymore.

I personally probably wouldn't by choice live in any of the places mentioned on this thread. West/South West London was my area of choice, but wouldn't be able to afford the prices most likely these days.

For anyone in their twenties or thirties wanting to enjoy life London is a great place to do that.

[boganbear]

You can't of hated it that much if you stayed for that long!

 

I should have left after a couple of years but I was lazy, got stuck in a rut and didn't look for jobs out of London. Its dirty, transport is terrible, expensive, crime ridden and takes ages to get anywhere.

[pablo]

Other than that,its luverly:hug:

[JGayle]

I should have left after a couple of years but I was lazy, got stuck in a rut and didn't look for jobs out of London. Its dirty, transport is terrible, expensive, crime ridden and takes ages to get anywhere.

 

Seconded. . .I live in Lewisham by the way :biggrin:. . .well for the next two years until I move to Oz.

 

I'm a born and bred Londoner and I've been dying to move away since I was a teen. I've lived in various locations and anywhere remotely affordable is either miles out and thus requiring a commute of over an hour (with all the train delays and engineering works that seem to be a near daily occurance) or so dodgy and dirty that I couldn't bare to start a family there. Yes it's good for going out but the cost of bills/rent/housing is so expensive and commuting takes so long its rarely worth the effort.

[simmo]

TBH Lewisham hasn't got much going for it.