Petkula73 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi Can anyone offer any help or advice here please? We submitted a 186 ENS in August and got assigned a case officer today. The case officer is asking for my proof of English language skills from my wife, who is a Finnish national. My wife lived and worked in the UK for 11 years, and has worked in a senior role from April 2012 to Sept 2013 in a large multinational companyin Melbourne. 100% of her work since 2000 has been in English. However, the CO has told me that we should have had an IELTS for my wife completed before the application was submitted. That leaves us is a real mess. Do we now have to withdraw the application and reapply when we have an IELTS? Surely IMMI can exercise some discretion or common sense here? Can any MA or Immigration lawyer offer some advice? Can't believe it. Have we really been so stupid? The CO claims that I should have known this before submitting the form. I therefore seem to have no leg to stand on. However, what I would say is it was absolutely not clear when submitting the form, and SURELY it's not too difficult to have a field on the form that flags up "IELTS required before submission" when a passport other than UK, USA, NZ etc is entered. I was dancing a jig 30 mins ago, now I feel like screaming! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petkula73 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Update - the CO says if we pay an additional $4K then she doesn't need to prove she can speak English! Sounds like a scam from Nigeria doesn't it!? Next thing the CO will be saying is she's a Zimbabwean prince who needs a small fee to have their fortune released from a Swiss bank!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petkula73 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 I can see the funny side of this and if it costs me an extra $4K to be able to live in this wonderful country then it's not worth losing too much sleep over, I guess. Oh well. Moral is - USE A MIGRATION AGENT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Glad you got there in the end, on the plus side it would have probably cost you more than $4,000 to use an agent anyway :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Update - the CO says if we pay an additional $4K then she doesn't need to prove she can speak English! Yes, that's the Second Instalment of the visa application charge. It's supposed to help offset the cost of the free english lessons that are available to non-english-speaking spouses.:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi Can anyone offer any help or advice here please? We submitted a 186 ENS in August and got assigned a case officer today. The case officer is asking for my proof of English language skills from my wife, who is a Finnish national. My wife lived and worked in the UK for 11 years, and has worked in a senior role from April 2012 to Sept 2013 in a large multinational companyin Melbourne. 100% of her work since 2000 has been in English. However, the CO has told me that we should have had an IELTS for my wife completed before the application was submitted. That leaves us is a real mess. If your wife is the secondary applicant, I disagree with the case officer stating that the IELTS needs to have been completed before the application was made. Surely IMMI can exercise some discretion or common sense here? No, case officers do not have discretion in regard to English. The Regulations for Functional English must be met and working in an English speaking country does not count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petkula73 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Thanks Raul. I think we'll just chalk this one up to experience. To be honest, just getting this completed is a huge relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petkula73 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 The main applicant was me (British). On the application document check list it has the following section: I'm really surprised by this as it shouldn't really matter if the secondary applicant has IELTS at the time of application, or by the time the CO picks up the application. Is this to designed to stop someone taking an intensive language course? I don't get it. I think the really, really crazy bit is if she's been studying for 12 months (so could be anything from Nuclear Physics to Basket Weaving I'm guessing) then this would be acceptable and yet fact that she's been working isn't. It's my fault though - I was under a lot of pressure when I submitted the application (redundancies being mooted, but thankfully now avoided) and I should have double checked. The relief that this is now coming to an end is incredible. About a month in to the application we stood to lose my job and the PR visa with it. Now everything is rosy and we can get on with our lives. Just that peace of mind alone is worth paying the extra cash for to get this over and done with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldun Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I am actually a Zimbabwean princess who coincidentally does have $700000000000 to move. Just send me your bank details.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi Can anyone offer any help or advice here please? We submitted a 186 ENS in August and got assigned a case officer today. The case officer is asking for my proof of English language skills from my wife, who is a Finnish national. My wife lived and worked in the UK for 11 years, and has worked in a senior role from April 2012 to Sept 2013 in a large multinational companyin Melbourne. 100% of her work since 2000 has been in English. However, the CO has told me that we should have had an IELTS for my wife completed before the application was submitted. That leaves us is a real mess. Do we now have to withdraw the application and reapply when we have an IELTS? Surely IMMI can exercise some discretion or common sense here? Can any MA or Immigration lawyer offer some advice? Can't believe it. Have we really been so stupid? The CO claims that I should have known this before submitting the form. I therefore seem to have no leg to stand on. However, what I would say is it was absolutely not clear when submitting the form, and SURELY it's not too difficult to have a field on the form that flags up "IELTS required before submission" when a passport other than UK, USA, NZ etc is entered. I was dancing a jig 30 mins ago, now I feel like screaming! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Here are the relevant regulations: Subclass 186 Employer Nomination Scheme 86.1 Interpretation 186.111 In this Part: application for approval means an application under regulation 5.19 for approval of the nomination of a position. occupation means the occupation that would be carried out by a person who is employed in a position. Note 1 For labour agreement: see regulation 1.03. Note 2 Regulation 1.03 provides that competent English has the meaning set out in regulation 1.15C. Note 3 Regulation 1.03 provides that vocational English has the meaning set out in regulation 1.15B. 186.2 Primary criteria Note The primary criteria for the grant of a Subclass 186 visa include criteria set out in streams. If an applicant applies for a Subclass 186 visa in the Temporary Residence Transition stream, the criteria in Subdivisions 186.21 and 186.22 are the primary criteria for the grant of the visa. If an applicant applies for a Subclass 186 visa in the Direct Entry stream, the criteria in Subdivisions 186.21 and 186.23 are the primary criteria. If an applicant applies for a Subclass 186 visa in the Agreement stream, the criteria in Subdivisions 186.21 and 186.24 are the primary criteria. The primary criteria must be satisfied by at least one member of a family unit. The other members of the family unit who are applicants for a visa of this subclass need satisfy only the secondary criteria. All criteria must be satisfied at the time a decision is made on the application. 186.21 Common criteria Note These criteria are for all applicants seeking to satisfy the primary criteria for a Subclass 186 visa. 186.211 If it is mandatory, in the State or Territory in which the position to which the application relates is located, that a person: (a) hold a licence of a particular kind; or (b) hold registration of a particular kind; or © be a member (or a member of a particular kind) of a particular professional body; to perform tasks of the kind to be performed in the occupation to which a position relates, the applicant is, or is eligible to become, the holder of the licence, the holder of the registration, or a member of the body, at the time of application. 186.212 The position to which the application relates will provide to the applicant the employment referred to in the application for approval. 186.213 [(1) amended by SLI 2012, 256 with effect on and from 24/11/2012 - LEGEND note] (1) The applicant satisfies public interest criteria 4001, 4002, 4003, 4004, 4010, 4020 and 4021. (2) If the applicant had turned 18 at the time of application, the applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4019. (3) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criteria 4001, 4002, 4003, 4004, 4010 and 4020. (4) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who: (a) is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa; and (b) had turned 18 at the time of application; satisfies public interest criterion 4019. (5) Eachmember of the family unit of the applicant who: (a) is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa; and (b) has not turned 18; satisfies public interest criteria 4015 and 4016. (6) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is not an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criteria 4001, 4002, 4003 and 4004. 186.214 (1) The applicant satisfies special return criteria 5001, 5002 and 5010. (2) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies special return criteria 5001, 5002 and 5010. 186.22 Criteria for Temporary Residence Transition stream Note These criteria are only for applicants seeking to satisfy the primary criteria for a Subclass 186 visa in the Temporary Residence Transition stream. 186.221 At the time of application, the applicant: (a) had not turned 50; or (b) was a person in a class of persons specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph. 186.222 At the time of application, the applicant: (a) had vocational English; or (b) was a person in a class of persons specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph. 186.223 (1) The position to which the application relates is the position: (a) nominated in an application for approval that seeks to meet the requirements of subregulation 5.19(3); and (b) in relation to which the applicant is identified as the holder of a Subclass 457 (Temporary Work (Skilled)) visa; and © in relation to which the declaration mentioned in paragraph 1114B(3)(d) of Schedule 1 was made in the application for the grant of the visa. (2) The Minister has approved the nomination. (3) The nomination has not subsequently been withdrawn. (4) The position is still available to the applicant. (5) The application for the visa is made no more than 6 months after the Minister approved the nomination. 186.224 (1) The applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4007. (2) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4007. (3) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is not an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4007 unless it would be unreasonable to require the member to undergo assessment in relation to the criterion. 186.23 Criteria for Direct Entry stream Note These criteria are only for applicants seeking to satisfy the primary criteria for a Subclass 186 visa in the Direct Entry stream. 186.231 At the time of application, the applicant: (a) had not turned 50; or (b) was a person in a class of persons specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph. 186.232 At the time of application, the applicant: (a) had competent English; or (b) was a person in a class of persons specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph. 186.233 (1) The position to which the application relates is the position: (a) nominated in an application for approval that seeks to meet the requirements of: (i) subparagraph 5.19(4)(h)(i); or (ii) subregulation 5.19(2) as in force before 1 July 2012; and (b) in relation to which the declaration mentioned in paragraph 1114B(3)(d) of Schedule 1 was made in the application for the grant of the visa. (2) The person who will employ the applicant is the person who was the nominator in the application for approval. (3) The Minister has approved the nomination. (4) The nomination has not subsequently been withdrawn. (5) The position is still available to the applicant. (6) The application for the visa is made not more than 6 months after the Minister approved the nomination. 186.234 (1) At the time of application, subclause (2) or (3) applies. (2) Both of the following apply: (a) an assessing authority specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this subclause, as the assessing authority for the occupation, has assessed the applicant’s skills as suitable for the occupation; [(b) amended by SLI 2013, 146 with effect on and from 01/07/2013 - LEGEND note] (b) the applicant has been employed in the occupation for at least 3 years on a full-time basis and at the level of skill required for the occupation. (3) The applicant is a person in a class of persons specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this subclause. 186.235 (1) The applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4005. (2) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4005. (3) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is not an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4005 unless the Minister is satisfied that it would be unreasonable to require the member to undergo assessment in relation to the criterion. 186.24 Criteria for Agreement stream Note These criteria are only for applicants seeking to satisfy the primary criteria for a Subclass 186 visa in the Agreement stream. 186.241 Either: (a) the applicant had not turned 50 at the time of application; or (b) the Minister has agreed, in a labour agreement: (i) that is in effect; and (ii) to which the employer is a party; and (iii) under which the position to which the application relates is nominated; and that persons who have turned 50 may be employed. 186.242 (1) The position to which the application relates is the position: (a) nominated by an employer in accordance with a labour agreement that is in effect and to which the employer is a party; and (b) identified in the application for the grant of the visa. (2) The requirements of the labour agreement have been met in relation to the application. (3) The Minister has approved the nomination. (4) The nomination has not subsequently been withdrawn. (5) The position is still available to the applicant. (6) The terms and conditions of employment applicable to the position will be no less favourable than the terms and conditions that: (a) are provided; or (b) would be provided; to an Australian citizen or an Australian permanent resident for performing equivalent work in the workplace to which the application relates at the same location. 186.243 The applicant has qualifications, experience and other attributes that are suitable for the position. 186.244 (1) The applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4005. (2) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4005. (3) Each member of the family unit of the applicant who is not an applicant for a Subclass 186 visa satisfies public interest criterion 4005 unless it would be unreasonable to require the member to undergo assessment in relation to the criterion. 186.3 Secondary criteria Note These criteria are for applicants who are members of the family unit of a person who satisfies the primary criteria. All criteria must be satisfied at the time a decision is made on the application. 186.31 Criteria 186.311 The applicant: (a) is a member of the family unit of a person (the primary applicant) who holds a Subclass 186 visa granted on the basis of satisfying the primary criteria for the grant of the visa; and (b) made a combined application with the primary applicant. 186.312 Any nomination approved in respect of the primary applicant, and mentioned in paragraph 1114B(3)(d) of Schedule 1, includes the applicant. 186.313 [(1) amended by SLI 2012, 256 with effect on and from 24/11/2012 - LEGEND note] (1) The applicant satisfies public interest criteria 4001, 4002, 4003, 4004, 4010, 4020 and 4021. (2) If the applicant had turned 18 at the time of application, the applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4019. (3) If the applicant has not turned 18, the applicant satisfies public interest criteria 4017 and 4018. (4) If the primary applicant holds a Subclass 186 visa in the Temporary Residence Transition stream, the applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4007. (5) If subclause (4) does not apply, the applicant satisfies public interest criterion 4005. 186.314 The applicant satisfies special return criteria 5001, 5002 and 5010. 186.4 Circumstances applicable to grant 186.411 The applicant may be in or outside Australia when the visa is granted, but not in immigration clearance. Note The second instalment of visa application charge must be paid before the visa can be granted. 186.5 When visa is in effect 186.511 Permanent visa permitting the holder to travel to, enter and remain in Australia for 5 years from the date of grant. 186.6 Conditions 186.611 If the applicant is outside Australia when the visa is granted: (a) first entry must be made before the date specified by the Minister; and (b) if the applicant satisfies the secondary criteria for the grant of the visa, condition 8515 may be imposed. ************************************************************************************************ It looks as if you are back to square 2. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 If she had been a student here she already would have to have completed the IELTS, even for basket making. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwokenna Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Update - the CO says if we pay an additional $4K then she doesn't need to prove she can speak English! Sounds like a scam from Nigeria doesn't it!? Next thing the CO will be saying is she's a Zimbabwean prince who needs a small fee to have their fortune released from a Swiss bank!! No Offence but you got me here, I am a proud Nigerian and double as an Australian Permanent Resident. You obviously have some self esteem issues thats why you had to excuse your incompetence by vomiting the brouhaha you just did on a country as beautiful as Nigeria. Come to think of it what your CO told you is written in black and white on immigration website and doesnt need a 3rd party to explain. You claim to be educated in wherever you said you did but cant follow a clearly written simple instructions blaming your ineptitude on Nigeria. silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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