Toolbox Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Two of my sisters are nurses with over 40 years experience between them, never has either ever complained to me. They both however believe very strongly that nurses should be paid what they are worth, that in many cases though would be less based on how they perform.....not all nurses are worthy of more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Two of my sisters are nurses with over 40 years experience between them, never has either ever complained to me. They both however believe very strongly that nurses should be paid what they are worth, that in many cases though would be less based on how they perform.....not all nurses are worthy of more money. You cant asess pay on individual performance in the nursing profession. It's subjective and impossible to achieve. There are good and bad in every profession and i would be the first to say that a certain nurse should not be paid the same as other nurses according to his/her performance. It's not doable? The fact that you have two sisters who don't complain is fab but they are two nurses that are probably a minority tbh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Its not just the pay though that I think affects morale its the staffing levels and again its a cost saving thing on the NHS part. If you are having to run the ward on one nurse (possibly two) when you have 12 patients to look after and yet you are being told you are not getting a pay rise this year it will start to have an effect no matter how much you love your job. The nurses I know that are leaving the profession are not doing so because they are not caring, they are doing so because they don't like the way the NHS is being run and how poor patient care is based on low staffing levels and demotivated staff. Almost every ward has staff that are demotivated, I had a placement in an 'area' where they were all unsure if they would still have a job in 12 months time and it is an awful environment. Another thing that is related to cost saving is the resources, I worked with dementia in the community and in the area I was based all the free resources were pulled and all that was left were day care centres at £50+ a day. The nurses had nothing to work with, they knew how to help give the patients a better quality of life and improve the relationship with the carer but they had no resources to do so. PS Apologise for any grammar or spelling mistakes. I have a kitten sat on my head!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Yeah course ive wrked wth demotivated nurses n I hate it! I would def leave if I ever felt like they did..maybe in another 10 years I will Maybe, but I hope not. It's very sad to watch people who believe in what they're doing become so disillusioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Toolbox, they may not complain to you but I bet if you were to ask them how they feel about the 1% payrise being cancelled I bet we can tell what their replies would be. Nursing seems to be struggling at the moment (as are other professions) from cuts in all areas. Its not one general factor that I believe is affecting staff morale but lots of factors. The one risk that we take as nurses is that we put everything we have into qualifying to become a nurse, we accept low pay and low staffing levels BUT one mistake and our careers end. Its a lot of responsibility when you are juggling multiple tasks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxlornaxx Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Nurses are moaners though...i remember when I was a student asking older nurses why and they said 'oh half the time we dnt mean it....its just expected of nurses..ppl would worry if we said we were happy" lol maybe thats why we're not listened to aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Its not just the pay though that I think affects morale its the staffing levels and again its a cost saving thing on the NHS part. If you are having to run the ward on one nurse (possibly two) when you have 12 patients to look after and yet you are being told you are not getting a pay rise this year it will start to have an effect no matter how much you love your job. The nurses I know that are leaving the profession are not doing so because they are not caring, they are doing so because they don't like the way the NHS is being run and how poor patient care is based on low staffing levels and demotivated staff. Almost every ward has staff that are demotivated, I had a placement in an 'area' where they were all unsure if they would still have a job in 12 months time and it is an awful environment. Another thing that is related to cost saving is the resources, I worked with dementia in the community and in the area I was based all the free resources were pulled and all that was left were day care centres at £50+ a day. The nurses had nothing to work with, they knew how to help give the patients a better quality of life and improve the relationship with the carer but they had no resources to do so. PS Apologise for any grammar or spelling mistakes. I have a kitten sat on my head!! Exactly this. I went back onto the wards a couple of months ago. It was staffed on every shift by one qualified nurse who did no hands on nursing - she was busy doing drs rounds, meds and paperwork. i thought paperwork was bad 15 years ago. It's bonkers now! The actual nursing care was given by two HCAs. There were 18 elderly patients with reduced or no mobility. There was no time to give them proper baths - most had to make do with a quick flannel wash. The HCAs were expected to do all the jobs we used to do as trained nurses (and we were told were important to be done by trained staff). To be told that the decision to have HCAs doing this work isn't financial (they earn around £14k pa) is disingenuous and insults our intelligence. I decided it wasn't an environment I wanted to work in. It's so demoralising not being able to do the job you've been trained for properly. There is a lot of waste in the NHS and that should be targeted first, before impacting on frontline service and the goodwill of the people working there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Nurses are moaners though...i remember when I was a student asking older nurses why and they said 'oh half the time we dnt mean it....its just expected of nurses..ppl would worry if we said we were happy" lol maybe thats why we're not listened to aswell This will sound patronising. I promise it's not meant to be, but I remember feeling just like this. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxlornaxx Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 This will sound patronising. I promise it's not meant to be, but I remember feeling just like this. :wink: Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The government will keep putting on nurses and reducing their pay until it reaches crisis point. Im not just saying the current government BUT all governments. Until they really are pushed to improve services they will get by on the bare minimum. Its not too bad because their relatives end up in Private care but it would be interesting to see how they would survive on a real ward. Another pet hate is the amount of agency staff, giving inconsistency to the patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Green Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 A demoralised workforce makes for a dangerous situation. Either successive Governments don't see this or simply don't care. If they continue to drive down pay, drive out hard working experienced staff and want to pay peanuts then they will probably end up with monkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 A demoralised workforce makes for a dangerous situation. Either successive Governments don't see this or simply don't care. If they continue to drive down pay, drive out hard working experienced staff and want to pay peanuts then they will probably end up with monkeys. Ah yes, but the cynic in me thinks that's what they want. They can blame those 'monkeys' for substandard care and say the NHS is no longer affordable.. Most of us who work in the NHS see waste every day, but it's easier (and more popular to certain sectors of society) to blame the staff salaries instead of the bloated bureaucracy, policies and procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The "monkeys" will still be accountable for their practice though! Huge problem IMO! What happens to patient care then? I remember nursing in the uk, six years ago, two staff nurses on a 32 bedded unit! HCAs made up the rest of the ratio! It was dangerous and scary! The HCAs were fab in that they did all the basic cares that we didn't have the time to do? The patient nurse ratio was crazy! I work on a 32 bed acute medical ward here and on nights we have 5 registered nurses! IMO it's safer! Do nurses in the uk deserve a pay rise? Absoloutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The government will keep putting on nurses and reducing their pay until it reaches crisis point. Im not just saying the current government BUT all governments. Until they really are pushed to improve services they will get by on the bare minimum. Its not too bad because their relatives end up in Private care but it would be interesting to see how they would survive on a real ward. Another pet hate is the amount of agency staff, giving inconsistency to the patients. Its ts not just nurses though is it? Millions of public sector workers aren't getting pay rises either and it's been the same for years now. This is a forum mostly for migration to Australia and there's been a huge gulf in what Australian public sector workers have been getting in their pay packets over recent years. It's roughly widened by about 20% in favour of Australia, it is something that people need to consider, whether they are emigrating or returning back to the UK. Someone who has been in Australia for say, the last 5 years will have seen their pay increase by about 20% and should they be returning to the UK, they might be shocked to find out that the pay they had when they left the UK, is the same on their return some 5 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Its ts not just nurses though is it? Millions of public sector workers aren't getting pay rises either and it's been the same for years now. This is a forum mostly for migration to Australia and there's been a huge gulf in what Australian public sector workers have been getting in their pay packets over recent years. It's roughly widened by about 20% in favour of Australia, it is something that people need to consider, whether they are emigrating or returning back to the UK. Someone who has been in Australia for say, the last 5 years will have seen their pay increase by about 20% and should they be returning to the UK, they might be shocked to find out that the pay they had when they left the UK, is the same on their return some 5 years later.there is not the money to pay the public sector workers more hoff, most private sector workers are in the same boat or have even had to take wage cuts, you will get rises eventually but for now when the country is in the **** you should just get on like the rest of us have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 they might be shocked to find out that the pay they had when they left the UK, is the same on their return some 5 years later. Or, as in my oh's case, less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 there is not the money to pay the public sector workers more hoff, most private sector workers are in the same boat or have even had to take wage cuts, you will get rises eventually but for now when the country is in the **** you should just get on like the rest of us have to. We have and we are getting on with it, we can't do anything about it, like I said before the MPs are getting a 10% pay rise and the high earners have had a 5% reduction in their tax rate. Doesn't seem fair to me, but like I say, whatt can anyone do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbrodin Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I guess if anything, IMO a rise in line with inflation would be the ideal, 1% is in reality a decrease which is what we have had! to take that away is disappointing. When I started nursing back in the late 80's there were no university training, a nurse education school within the hospital, when diploma nursing was introduced, we were all encouraged to remain in line with students and complete a diploma, same again with degree nursing courses, and I have now completed my masters. I have seen everything from poor practice, bullying, low morale and stress/injury in colleagues, I count myself lucky that wherever I have worked and at every level, I have loved my job, despite being assaulted, abused, seen staffing levels fall, services reduced to the detriment of the patients and the reality that the managers do not care or value staff and that money is more important across all public services. Money is definitely not high up on the nurses agenda, but a lack of valuing those who work in the nhs and public services will eventually cause some kind of response. There is a high percentage of nurses who are approaching retiring, in the teams I work, about 50% of colleagues have 5 years or less, if new, young and enthusiastic people are to be welcomed in to the public services/nhs, pay, terms and conditions need not be chipped away and reduced, we will all need to have care at some stage, so let's have the best. There is no doubt that in private care there is good and bad, but where it is done as cheaply as possible, the outcomes for the patients are not great, as they say, you get what you pay for!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toodolou Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 i qualified 2 yes ago and starting pay is still the same ! i know people at working at aldi paid more than me as itu nurse . hmmmmmm! responsibilities and skills here are very different but not paid differently ! people clearly dont go into nursing for the money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickyplum Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I worked in the NHS for three years - went there from private sector and am now back in private sector. I was not in a clinical role but came into contact with various levels of nurses and consultants. Coming from the private sector where I was only rewarded for doing well / getting a good appraisal, I found it very bizarre (if not welcome!) to receive a pay rise every year (I was there until December 2012). I could be failing in my role or not fulfilling my objectives but I would still get a pay rise. I'm sure it's very different being in a nursing role rather than a support role, but there was no incentive to do well or carry out objectives because a rise would come regardless - obvs this has now changed. I didn't take advantage of the automatic rises and still did my job well, but I'm sure that's not the case with all the 100,000s NHS staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Green Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Ah yes, but the cynic in me thinks that's what they want. They can blame those 'monkeys' for substandard care and say the NHS is no longer affordable.. Most of us who work in the NHS see waste every day, but it's easier (and more popular to certain sectors of society) to blame the staff salaries instead of the bloated bureaucracy, policies and procedures. IMHO and cynically speaking also, demoralise the staff, pay them less, work them harder, work them longer, the state run systems whether it be nurses, prisons, etc etc will eventually fall. The government can then privatise them, make a profit and if it goes wrong after that well they'll absolved of any blame because it isn't run by the state. It's a win/win situation for the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Whys it a given right that public sector workers should receive a pay rise year on year, I'm not knocking anyone because you all provide a service to the public, but private sector worker doesn't get half of what you get in terms and conditions and has to prove your worth to justify a pay rise. Millions of private sector workers have had pay CUTS over the last 5 years so be happy that you haven't had a pay cut and your getting a pay rise all be it a small one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Whys it a given right that public sector workers should receive a pay rise year on year, I'm not knocking anyone because you all provide a service to the public, but private sector worker doesn't get half of what you get in terms and conditions and has to prove your worth to justify a pay rise. Millions of private sector workers have had pay CUTS over the last 5 years so be happy that you haven't had a pay cut and your getting a pay rise all be it a small one Year on year ????? We haven't had a pay rise in 5 years FFS. We don't expect a pay rise, year on year, but we definitely didn't expect not to get a pay rise for 5 years, or will it be 10 years. What a sorry state the UK is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Year on year ????? We haven't had a pay rise in 5 years FFS. We don't expect a pay rise, year on year, but we definitely didn't expect not to get a pay rise for 5 years, or will it be 10 years. What a sorry state the UK is in. Well it's quite simple.. Leave your job for a better paid one.. I'm sure there's millions if people who had cuts to pay packets over the last 5 years.. Count yourself lucky your not one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fisheys Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Not just nurses, all NHS staff. Where I work (GP surgery) they've just taken on a 19 year old as a receptionist. They've employed her as an apprentice (why does someone need an apprenticeship to be a receptionist?) and they're paying her £2.50 per hour. She's been there four weeks now and is doing everything the other receptionists are doing, on her own with no guidance - she obviously cottoned onto the role quickly! - yet she's still paid this pittance. I wonder how much she will miss her 1% rise??The other receptionists were trying to get it changed, saying it was unfair as she would be doing exactly the same work, to no avail. The trust my oh works in isn't too badly affected yet, but the one he used to work in was cut back to the bone a few years ago. This time every member of staff from the cleaners to the consultants has lost their job. They're reapplying for their own jobs - on 'different' T's and Cs, unsurprisingly, and a third will be unlucky, putting extra strain on those who are more 'fortunate'. This is the third time it's happened. A lot of our friends work there and I've never seen people so stressed and disillusioned. These aren't people who are greedy, they have worked in the NHS for twenty or thirty years and dealt with the endless changes to their work and have always been totally committed to the NHS. It worries me how many on are antidepressants now and how, to a man/woman, they want out. Experienced nurses, doctors, lecturers, physios.... It's not just pay, it's the bullying culture and the feeling of being undervalued. Quite the best post I have read for some while. Come to Oz, it is so much better, I wish I had 20 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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