hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hi, does anyone have any advice as to how to go about addressing a clause in an employment contract that says you may have to reimburse the cost of sponsorship if you leave within a certain timeframe? (I know they are not meant to ask). Edited to add: There are no relocation costs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Why are they not meant to ask? Is it just the cost of sponsorship or thre full cost of relocation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I think it will depend what the company paid for originally, if it was just flights, then thats probably what you will have to re pay, if it was shipping and accommodation etc id imagine thats what they would expect you to pay back. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Agreed, are they just talking visa fees, or relocation packages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hi, does anyone have any advice as to how to go about addressing a clause in an employment contract that says you may have to reimburse the cost of sponsorship if you leave within a certain timeframe? (I know they are not meant to ask). Don't you have a copy of your contract? If there was a clause in it saying they would pay if they paid you off then you would expect them to so if you have signed it saying you would pay if you left then why shouldn't you have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Sorry I should have added more information. I am already in Australia so there are no relocation costs. I haven't signed it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Agreed, are they just talking visa fees, or relocation packages? Just Visa fees, there are no relocation costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Don't you have a copy of your contract? If there was a clause in it saying they would pay if they paid you off then you would expect them to so if you have signed it saying you would pay if you left then why shouldn't you have to? I haven't signed it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Why are they not meant to ask? Is it just the cost of sponsorship or thre full cost of relocation? Just the cost of sponsorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realitynotincluded Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Download fact sheet: 457 Visa holders - Your rights at work (pdf 184KB) You have rights when you work in Australia The Fair Work Ombudsman and the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) work together to help you understand your legal rights when working in Australia. Your employer must comply with both Australian workplace laws and immigration laws. Your rights under the Worker Protection Act 2008 You are entitled to receive pay and conditions at least as good as Australian workers who are doing the same work at the same workplace. The Worker Protection Act 2008 protects you from exploitation. Under these laws, your sponsor must provide you with the same terms and conditions as Australian workers performing the same work in the same workplace. These laws also give DIAC stronger powers to make sure that sponsors are complying with their obligations. Your sponsor must: show that they are providing you equal pay and conditions of employment to Australian workers performing equivalent work in the same location not make deductions from your pay (other than tax) without your permission only employ you in your approved skilled occupation pay reasonable and necessary travel costs to allow you and your family members to leave Australia, if requested in writing by you, your family or DIAC on your behalf not ask you to pay back the cost of your recruitment, including migration agent costs or the costs associated with becoming or being an approved sponsor make sure that you do not work for other employers not pay you in cash. Hi, does anyone have any advice as to how to go about addressing a clause in an employment contract that says you may have to reimburse the cost of sponsorship if you leave within a certain timeframe? (I know they are not meant to ask). Edited to add: There are no relocation costs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Download fact sheet: 457 Visa holders - Your rights at work (pdf 184KB) You have rights when you work in Australia The Fair Work Ombudsman and the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) work together to help you understand your legal rights when working in Australia. Your employer must comply with both Australian workplace laws and immigration laws. Your rights under the Worker Protection Act 2008 You are entitled to receive pay and conditions at least as good as Australian workers who are doing the same work at the same workplace. The Worker Protection Act 2008 protects you from exploitation. Under these laws, your sponsor must provide you with the same terms and conditions as Australian workers performing the same work in the same workplace. These laws also give DIAC stronger powers to make sure that sponsors are complying with their obligations. Your sponsor must: show that they are providing you equal pay and conditions of employment to Australian workers performing equivalent work in the same location not make deductions from your pay (other than tax) without your permission only employ you in your approved skilled occupation pay reasonable and necessary travel costs to allow you and your family members to leave Australia, if requested in writing by you, your family or DIAC on your behalf not ask you to pay back the cost of your recruitment, including migration agent costs or the costs associated with becoming or being an approved sponsor make sure that you do not work for other employers not pay you in cash. Thanks, I already read this. As I said in my original post, I know they are not meant to ask. What I am asking for is advice on how to address it when they do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivieraKid Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Just the cost of sponsorship. That may not be legal. From the SkillSelect page on the 457 visa employer obligations: Obligation: No recovery of certain costs from a skilled worker or secondary sponsored person You must not recover, or seek to recover, all or part of the costs (including migration agent costs) from the worker or any of their family members: if the costs relate specifically to the recruitment of the skilled worker if the costs are associated with your becoming or being an approved sponsor or former approved sponsor. Without knowing the details, it sounds like "the cost of sponsorship" would fall firmly within this obligation, but you may want to get some more professional advice. Edit: Just saw your response above - it's not simply that they are not supposed to ask, they are forbidden from asking for the money back. Now, you can either insist that the clause is removed from your contract before signing since it's clearly illegal, or sign and challenge it if they try to get the money back when you leave their employ. Given that they even have that clause there shows that they are either ignorant of their legal obligations, or simply don't care. The question therefore becomes, do you want to challenge it now, and risk them withdrawing their offer (of course, it may just be a misunderstanding, and there's no risk), or challenge it later if they attempt to recover the money? It really comes down to my statement above - you should probably get some professional advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realitynotincluded Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Sorry my bag..... depends how you got the visa... lucky if you did it through an agent because you could just say something along the lines that you have read your contract and when you were applying a very helpful person from the agency showed you the following employer Australian guidelines for the 457 visa and it did actually say....... "quoted as in guideline l already put here. On the other hand if you did it yourself, you could just say that another 457 visa person and you were discussing the pro's and con's of this visa and they pointed out this fact about reimbursement.... if you feel your company are going to be a**holes about it then they are not a good company to work for... but you have rights... hopefully you like where you are and you don't think you are going to be moving on in the near future.... if you do leave and they throw it back at you just print off fairwork Australia about 457's and see them turnabout and run..... good luck Hi, does anyone have any advice as to how to go about addressing a clause in an employment contract that says you may have to reimburse the cost of sponsorship if you leave within a certain timeframe? the you (I know they are not meant to ask). Edited to add: There are no relocation costs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 If the contract clause is contrary to statutory law (as it appears here) then it's unenforceable anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Thanks, I already read this. As I said in my original post, I know they are not meant to ask. What I am asking for is advice on how to address it when they do.. At risk of stating the obvious, bring the relevant law to their attention? Alternatively, sign anyway on the basis that it is unenforceable should it come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 If the contract clause is contrary to statutory law (as it appears here) then it's unenforceable anyway Thank you this is extremely helpful to know if worse comes to worse and I have to sign something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtochase Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 At risk of stating the obvious, bring the relevant law to their attention? Alternatively, sign anyway on the basis that it is unenforceable should it come to that. I do plan to if I need to but I am thinking about how tactfully to do it without coming across badly. I feel like throwing the book at your potential employer isn't the best way to accept a job. Though it's useful to know I could throw the book at them afterwards if worst came to the worst and I have to sign something. I asked them to remove the clause so hopefully we don't need to get into the 'this isn't legal' conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 TBH with unenforceable contract terms you can sometimes be best off keeping quiet and just ignoring it - it's not worth the paper it's written on anyway No contract can override statutory law, it's a basic precept of common law legal systems (of which Australia is one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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