Archies owner Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi, I love dogs, that is why I am a dog walker. And I hate to see dogs suffering, and I read in here regularly how everyone is hoping that quarantine in Australia is dropped to 10 days. Yes you will see your pet sooner, but these are the counter arguments. I hear that people complain about the expense. I have been told that it is somewhere between $1000 and $1500. If this is so, then it is very reasonably priced when you consider that an overnight stay at a vets for snake bite can cost close to $1000 itself. In fact people have told me that a snake bite can have a dog at a vets for up to 3 days and cost $3,500 including anti-venom. Did you know that many countries have a quarantine of six months still, such as Canada. This is because they are being cautious. Has anyone heard of how Australia food is so valued because we are an island and our crops and meat are protected by that and our good quarantine laws. Pests and viruses come into countries by many means, and I would hate to see a dog bring in something that would end up killing a lot of other dogs. Has anyone heard of Mad Cow Disease? http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/ Today I talked to someone from the UK who has another 2.5 weeks to go until her dog is released. She said that she cant get the memory of the stench of the burning cow carcasses out of her mind. That many UK city folk never saw the devastation first hand, where just concerned about the rising meat costs. Can you imagine what would happen if a virulent deadly disease was brought into quarantine with an incubation period of 15 days, when the quarantine stays were reduced to 10 days? I imagine that if the people who campaigned for ten days ended up with dead dogs, they would be furious at quarantine. Did you know that some dogs are carriers of diseases and don't show signs of them. And that some new diseases in dogs can be difficult to detect. All I am saying, is that before every single person who visits this forums votes or demands that quarantine reduce Australia's protection from deadly diseases, that they consider all the possible full ramifications of this. Yes its nice to see your dog a little sooner, but I think the 30 day rule is a bare minimum for everyone's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think from rabies free countries there is no problem at all, especially when you see how Australia has their own problems with Lyssa and Hendra. I could go in to a long spiel but not up to it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I can't see costs being reduced with quarantine but I suppose it will affect your business. I remember importing a hand raised ALC by the time it had done the 6 month stint in quarantine it was wild again, I've got the scars lol. Such a shame as it was stunning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Im not quite sure of the point of this thread to be honest ? Long quarantine periods are archaic and outdated and achieve nothing. You mentioned Canada as an example of a country with a long quarantine period when in fact they have actually removed the requirement for quarantine altogether for domestic dogs, Im not sure where you got the idea it was 6 months ? The reductions or abolition of quarantine is down to the fact that we have made huge advances in detection and prevention. You also mention some dogs being carriers, in those cases it wouldnt make any difference how long the quarantine period was. As M2M says there are other diseases in Australia that need worrying about to be honest. There seems to be a vested interest on your part to keep the quarantine period long, they are being reduced or abolished around the world because there are better alternatives available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Eh???? I thought canada didnt require quarantine from the UK at all, thats what i read on a few places anyway. If they are small then you can book them as "luggage" on the plane apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 HB beat me to it, sorry i should of read the whole post. I dont know anything about aus quarantine but i knew canada was definitely much simpler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 HB beat me to it, sorry i should of read the whole post. I dont know anything about aus quarantine but i knew canada was definitely much simpler The Australian system is just overly complicated and expensive, it doesnt mean the country is safer because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 We were quoted 4k for lucy to go to aus or nz, its ouch! We arent going anywhere now obviously but it would of took us a long time to pay that! Canada is as long as you follow the rabies, vaccinations etc your dog can be home the same day. So far i havent heard of any trouble with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 To be honest with the advances that have been made quarantine is rightly becoming a thing of the past. That may seem like a strange thing to say but if the main issues are taken care of with vaccinations then quarantine is redundant. It used to 6 months many years ago when there were no alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinkydoo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'm going to pick up my cat from quarantine on Friday and I'm hoping it won't take too long for him to recover from the ordeal! He's not coped with it very well. Feeling incredibly guilty for putting him through it all. It would have been much better for him if we could have had a shorter quarantine period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'm going to pick up my cat from quarantine on Friday and I'm hoping it won't take too long for him to recover from the ordeal! He's not coped with it very well. Feeling incredibly guilty for putting him through it all. It would have been much better for him if we could have had a shorter quarantine period. I know it wont be any use to you but I think in the coming years we will see quarantine disappear altogether and it will be taken care of by vaccinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think the argument you raise is poor, there is no evidence that we can know how long an incubation period is for a virus, goodness knows KC strains can be incubated for three months... As for finances, it's costing me about £955 to have my little dog shipped, £275 for her import/export permits, £250 in vet fees, and about £900 in quarantine fees. I don't feel it's an extensive amount for a best friend and I'm sure many others feel the same way, or they wouldn't pay to have their pets shipped over. A bit shallow of you to assume everyone wants quarantine lowered because of cost. I want it lowered to ten days because my dog has never lived in a kennel before, has never been on a plane before, has never lived in the heat before, and will want her mummy to give her a hug and take her home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I can only use my experience with reptiles but there is a particularly bad virus that affects snakes, the incubation period can be years and some are just carriers and never show any signs of symptoms. My point is that it wouldnt matter if the quarantine was zero or a year. I think most people want less time in quarantine for the sake of the pet not their pocket, as you say. I think the argument you raise is poor, there is no evidence that we can know how long an incubation period is for a virus, goodness knows KC strains can be incubated for three months...As for finances, it's costing me about £955 to have my little dog shipped, £275 for her import/export permits, £250 in vet fees, and about £900 in quarantine fees. I don't feel it's an extensive amount for a best friend and I'm sure many others feel the same way, or they wouldn't pay to have their pets shipped over. A bit shallow of you to assume everyone wants quarantine lowered because of cost. I want it lowered to ten days because my dog has never lived in a kennel before, has never been on a plane before, has never lived in the heat before, and will want her mummy to give her a hug and take her home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzzam Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am currently getting quotes to take our scitzu/yorkie cross to melbourne and thought the quotes werent too bad for what you get. As Tulip says if they are a real member of your family you dont mind the cost but do mind them being seperated from the rest of their family doing unfamiliar things and with unfamiliar people. I am unsure how our little dog will cope and it worries me about how long she will have to be in quarantine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think the idea that people want quarantine removed because of the cost is a little insulting. Firstly because it implicitly suggests people do not care about rabies control but only their wallet, when in fact most do not believe in quarantine because it adds nothing to rabies control that proper vaccination and screening does not. And secondly because the only thing I cared about was the welfare of my pet, one cat was very stressed in quarantine and there were very serious concerns for his health, for the last two weeks I paid a vet to go in and see him every other day, so cost control was definitely not on my agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yes that is exactly the point, if a dog passes its rabies titer test it is then no risk and keeping it in quarantine for an hour or a year wont change its status, the same goes for the other things the animals are vaccinated for. I think the idea that people want quarantine removed because of the cost is a little insulting. Firstly because it implicitly suggests people do not care about rabies control but only their wallet, when in fact most do not believe in quarantine because it adds nothing to rabies control that proper vaccination and screening does not. And secondly because the only thing I cared about was the welfare of my pet, one cat was very stressed in quarantine and there were very serious concerns for his health, for the last two weeks I paid a vet to go in and see him every other day, so cost control was definitely not on my agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d4ddyc00l Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Having just booked our four cavvies to be shipped to Sydney through Petair, I can say that although cost wasn't the main concern, it would have saved us around £2000 if it was only ten days. As everyone has said, our main concern is our "babies" being in quarantine for a month! They all sleep in/on our bed at night, and are very close to us, so we're really worried about them being away from us for so long! Like I say, it would have been nice to save a bit of money, but we would have paid whatever we had to so they could join us in Oz. The total bill is going to be around £10k all in all, but it will be worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnEmCathcart Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I don't think you can even compare the cost of quarantine with the cost of veterinary treatment for a snake bite. There are no comparisons at all. Your dog/cat is away from you..that's the only thing. The intensity of hospital care for these patients, the cost of medication, the need for ventilators in some cases and the anti-venom itself, none of which is required in quarantine (one would seriously hope). It is like trying to compare the cost of staying a month in a travel-lodge with a stay in ICU for a life-threatening traffic accident. The import restrictions into Australia are some of the strictest in the whole world and rightly so - make the most of being an island, but the animal can't enter Australia within 180 days following rabies blood titre testing (which is the rabies incubation period) anyway so this would not change by dropping quarantine time. Latent viruses will not necessarily show in quarantine as previously mentioned. Tick borne diseases are tested for serologically prior to export which wasn't possible historically. I dont think that the movement of animals around the world will ever be perfect but there are many other threats to bringing disease into Australia that go without such strict guidelines. The other argument for reducing to 10 days is that quarantine is only 10 days to New Zealand and pets can travel freely from NZ to Aus with no quarantine so this makes the extra 20 days to Aus a little pointless in terms of disease transmission/monitoring. I am quite sure that if the quarantine is reduced to 10 days then it will be done so with much epidemiological consideration from biosecurity specialists at the top of their fields and the influence of pet owners on these decisions will be negligible. I do not think after all that people have been through to bring their animals across the world that anyone would be naiive enough to think that the cost is the driving factor behind this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archies owner Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Im not quite sure of the point of this thread to be honest ? Long quarantine periods are archaic and outdated and achieve nothing. You mentioned Canada as an example of a country with a long quarantine period when in fact they have actually removed the requirement for quarantine altogether for domestic dogs, Im not sure where you got the idea it was 6 months ?The reductions or abolition of quarantine is down to the fact that we have made huge advances in detection and prevention. You also mention some dogs being carriers, in those cases it wouldnt make any difference how long the quarantine period was. As M2M says there are other diseases in Australia that need worrying about to be honest. There seems to be a vested interest on your part to keep the quarantine period long, they are being reduced or abolished around the world because there are better alternatives available. The reason I said six months was that two years ago, a person I was minding two minature daschunds for moved to Canada and she said that was their requirement then, apologies for not keeping up to date on every countries quarantine. "Long quarantine periods are archaic and outdated" is based on your opinion? When a new disease or variation of one is brought into a clean country such as Australia, I am sure that most Australians wont feel the same way. "You also mention some dogs being carriers, in those cases it wouldn't make any difference how long the quarantine period was." I appreciate that you are attempting to completely dismantle an argument for safety at all costs, but have you considered that a carrier may infect other dogs in quarantine at the 15 or 20 day mark, then it can be isolated? Have you any idea how difficult it is to contain a virulent disease once it is spread in the community? "As M2M says there are other diseases in Australia that need worrying about to be honest. There seems to be a vested interest on your part to keep the quarantine period long, they are being reduced or abolished around the world because there are better alternatives available." Does it matter that there are other diseases to be worried about in Australia? That has nothing to do with another country introducing new or old diseases here. You both have a fantastic faith in medical science, which clearly has detected and abolished all diseases by 2013. I have a vested interest in working for a living, and the dog environment being healthy. THERE ARE NO better alternatives than time and isolation when a break-out is found. P.s. I guess you were around when the kennel cough break out caused an aqis lock down? Imagine something worse, but you are right medical science and vaccines will solve it all. I marvel at your faith. If you can solve the bird & swine flu issues (for humans), dog aids and a few other things that I am not sure are solved in backward Australia, then I think we would all appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archies owner Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 I think the idea that people want quarantine removed because of the cost is a little insulting. Firstly because it implicitly suggests people do not care about rabies control but only their wallet, when in fact most do not believe in quarantine because it adds nothing to rabies control that proper vaccination and screening does not. A couple of basic points you have made in error. If you have bothered to check through the threads in this forum A LOT OF PEOPLE have complained about costs. A LOT. Only you are insulted because you think it refers to you, I was just re-stating a popular concern in here. Point 2. I don't remember mentioning rabies. Yes it could be rabies, but it could also be a whole host of other diseases. Another argument that it could be zero days incubation or a year so lets remove it all together is ludicrous. The six month period was for a safety until the got most known long incubation period virus/ diseases under control. Now it is 30 days, but many people who are selfish enough because its all ABOUT THEIR PET, want ten days or nothing. Of course if there is a major outbreak when it drops to ten, all these people who just have to have their dogs in aqis once will be long gone. Maybe their dogs will get infected and die, maybe not. The less selfish thing to do when moving to a new country is not to demand reduction of laws for their one off experience, when it could have long term affects. But yes, you will probably just put that down to my self interest again. I think we are just blessed that their are so many doctors, vets and experts on disease in here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archies owner Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 I don't think you can even compare the cost of quarantine with the cost of veterinary treatment for a snake bite. There are no comparisons at all. Your dog/cat is away from you..that's the only thing. The intensity of hospital care for these patients, the cost of medication, the need for ventilators in some cases and the anti-venom itself, none of which is required in quarantine (one would seriously hope). It is like trying to compare the cost of staying a month in a travel-lodge with a stay in ICU for a life-threatening traffic accident. The import restrictions into Australia are some of the strictest in the whole world and rightly so - make the most of being an island, but the animal can't enter Australia within 180 days following rabies blood titre testing (which is the rabies incubation period) anyway so this would not change by dropping quarantine time. Latent viruses will not necessarily show in quarantine as previously mentioned. Tick borne diseases are tested for serologically prior to export which wasn't possible historically. I dont think that the movement of animals around the world will ever be perfect but there are many other threats to bringing disease into Australia that go without such strict guidelines. The other argument for reducing to 10 days is that quarantine is only 10 days to New Zealand and pets can travel freely from NZ to Aus with no quarantine so this makes the extra 20 days to Aus a little pointless in terms of disease transmission/monitoring. I am quite sure that if the quarantine is reduced to 10 days then it will be done so with much epidemiological consideration from biosecurity specialists at the top of their fields and the influence of pet owners on these decisions will be negligible. I do not think after all that people have been through to bring their animals across the world that anyone would be naiive enough to think that the cost is the driving factor behind this change. "New Zealand is free from many serious diseases and pests such as rabies, heartworm disease, and many ticks. Biosecurity requirements are in place to manage the risk of introducing unwanted diseases, pests and animals. These requirements (including eligibility, tests and treatments) are listed in the Import Health Standards (IHS) for cats and dogs and the Guidance Document." So I guess the argument would be that pets arriving in NZ have had to have some form of quarantine period, and that because of its proximity to Australia, its clean health etc that they consider NZ to be like an external state to Australia. I dont think the same is considered for Asia which isnt that much further away, but is likely to have a worse health record for pets. "I am quite sure that if the quarantine is reduced to 10 days then it will be done so with much epidemiological consideration from biosecurity specialists" Or alternatively it will be from external pressure from other countries and people such as in this forum complaining about the time. Sometimes I am sure you will appreciate, politics and minority groups can cause change that is not beneficial for a country. I have to also say that I would not want my dog to be in quarantine for long. I dont leave him at kennels either. But something that I read in here regularly is statements like "They all sleep in/on our bed at night, and are very close to us" MOST dog experts agree that letting a dog sleep on your bed is giving up an alpha status or final control you might have on a dog. I treat dogs like dogs (discipline, exercise and love), so they are stable and can be controlled in public, so they are social. The kinds of dogs that sleep on beds are often the ones that don't go for daily off lead dog walks, and are often the first ones to attack other dogs, thinking they are protecting their owners. The 30 day rule has nothing to do with JUST known diseases, or how much you love your dog. It is not against dogs, but in fact protecting dogs IN THIS COUNTRY. Anyone in here who claims they know all about past and future dog diseases, is clearly delusional I will fight the the safety and rights of dogs already in Australia, which if you are privileged enough to be allowed to bring your dog to Australia, you should see as a positive point, not as a punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 30 days in quarantine is no guarantee of anything, why not return to 6 months like it used to be ? The reason quarantine periods are being reduced around the world is that huge advances are being made, it is no longer necessary to confine a dog for 30 days or indeed 180 days as it used to be. I dont see anyone claiming to have knowledge of past or future diseases so your comment about being delusional is redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 If using quarantine requirements in a particular country in your argument it is very important that you keep up to date as in this instance it actually worked against you. Canada is following other countries and is doing quarantine through vaccination and vet inspection. Australia isnt a 'clean' country, it has many of the canine health issues many other countries have and others of its own. This belief that Australia is somehow special is strange indeed, the exact same principles apply there. The fact that the GOVERNMENT is reducing the quarantine period shows that they, like many other governments, have understood that disease control does not have to involve extended periods in quarantine. The reason I said six months was that two years ago, a person I was minding two minature daschunds for moved to Canada and she said that was their requirement then, apologies for not keeping up to date on every countries quarantine. "Long quarantine periods are archaic and outdated" is based on your opinion? When a new disease or variation of one is brought into a clean country such as Australia, I am sure that most Australians wont feel the same way. "You also mention some dogs being carriers, in those cases it wouldn't make any difference how long the quarantine period was." I appreciate that you are attempting to completely dismantle an argument for safety at all costs, but have you considered that a carrier may infect other dogs in quarantine at the 15 or 20 day mark, then it can be isolated? Have you any idea how difficult it is to contain a virulent disease once it is spread in the community? "As M2M says there are other diseases in Australia that need worrying about to be honest. There seems to be a vested interest on your part to keep the quarantine period long, they are being reduced or abolished around the world because there are better alternatives available." Does it matter that there are other diseases to be worried about in Australia? That has nothing to do with another country introducing new or old diseases here. You both have a fantastic faith in medical science, which clearly has detected and abolished all diseases by 2013. I have a vested interest in working for a living, and the dog environment being healthy. THERE ARE NO better alternatives than time and isolation when a break-out is found. P.s. I guess you were around when the kennel cough break out caused an aqis lock down? Imagine something worse, but you are right medical science and vaccines will solve it all. I marvel at your faith. If you can solve the bird & swine flu issues (for humans), dog aids and a few other things that I am not sure are solved in backward Australia, then I think we would all appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 "[/color]As M2M says there are other diseases in Australia that need worrying about to be honest. There seems to be a vested interest on your part to keep the quarantine period long' date=' they are being reduced or abolished around the world because there are better alternatives available." Does it matter that there are other diseases to be worried about in Australia? That has nothing to do with another country introducing new or old diseases here. You both have a fantastic faith in medical science, which clearly has detected and abolished all diseases by 2013. I have a vested interest in working for a living, and the dog environment being healthy. THERE ARE NO better alternatives than time and isolation when a break-out is found. P.s. [b']I guess you were around when the kennel cough break out caused an aqis lock down[/b]? Imagine something worse, but you are right medical science and vaccines will solve it all. I marvel at your faith. If you can solve the bird & swine flu issues (for humans), dog aids and a few other things that I am not sure are solved in backward Australia, then I think we would all appreciate it. Archie to be honest I'd quit whilst you are ahead. I've worked in the veterinary field for 20 plus years. Please feel free to advise us what qualifications you have in the companion animal world apart from being a dog walker. It is obvious your post was trying to put the public in a frenzy for your own personal gain. Unfortunately I'm laid in a hospital bed so haven't the time and energy to refute your claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The 30 day rule has nothing to do with JUST known diseases, or how much you love your dog. It is not against dogs, but in fact protecting dogs IN THIS COUNTRY. Anyone in here who claims they know all about past and future dog diseases, is clearly delusional I will fight the the safety and rights of dogs already in Australia, which if you are privileged enough to be allowed to bring your dog to Australia, you should see as a positive point, not as a punishment. Hey Archie, what the hell lets quarantine all humans for 6 months as well. I mean TB has yet again arrived in the Far North from PNG not forgetting the reports of chikungunya in the paper today again from PNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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