IrelandToOz Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Hi, Apologies in advance in case this turns out to be a long post. I haven't been through the visa / migration process before, so was hoping someone who has might be able to offer a different opinion or advice. Back story: My boyfriend and I have both have a Higher Diploma in IT and in Sept will both have 2 years experience as Software Developers. Programming / developing is on the skills shortage list...so here is our proposed plan... We are hoping to move to Australia (Melbourne) in September, and will both be still under 31, so would qualify for the WHV. However...we want to continue working as developers over there...and feel that the WHV may hinder our chances of gaining employment in this area. (Would this be a correct assumption to make?). In order to get good jobs in development we are considering applying for the independant skilled visa (me being the main applicant). The plan at the moment is for me to sit the IELTS during the summer (I am assuming I just need the general one?). Depending on my results this will hopefully bring my points up to 60, or up to 70 if I get the higher result. Then when we hand our notices into our employers we will look for the references we need to get our skills assessed. We will hopefully upload these before flying out to Australia on a WHV. Once we have our skills assessed and are obviously sure we want to stay longer than a year we will then put in our EOI for the skilled visa. Hopefully we will have gained some employment on the WHV in the mean-time while waiting for the independant visa to come through. Does this sound like a good plan...? Or are there major parts missing? We don't want to rely on luck by heading over on a WHV before we have two years experience in the hope of getting a developer job in a company that will also sponsor us. I guess I am just looking for advice from anyone in a similar situation. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Welcome to poms in oz. Have you checked how many years experiance you need to pass the skills assessment? That would be the main thing I would be thinking about. The whv is not a bad idea, but I wouldn't count on finding a sponsor. They have just announced that they are going to make some sponsorship visas harder to get, so you have to think about the possibility that it won't happen. If you can pass the skills assessment then your plan is a good one. Although personally I would get the skills assessment done before leaving. They can take a while, and often people fail and need to reapply with more evidence. If you apply for the skilled independent visa while on the whv you will also get bridging visa a once your whv expires, although you will still be limited to six months work with each employer. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I would also have concerns around the skills assessment. Have you looked into this yet? I know there are lots of IT occupations, however I took a quick look and the one called "Developer Programmer" requires either a degree or five years of experience. http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/d/developer-programmer.htm So look into this more closely first of all, otherwise you could well be doing your WHV and then coming back to build up your experience only to try again in a few years. Also you keep saying "we" in "we will get our skills assessed" "we will upload our references". Remember that you would only do this for one of you, not both of you as you have indicated that you would be the main applicant on presumably a joint application. If there is an occupation that you can get the skills assessment for, then I would agree with blossom that it would be better to get this in the bag before you go and then the rest of the plan, to apply if you like it there seems ok. The WHV will restrict your job opportunitties to a point, but if there are short projects it could also be handy for an employer. But there is just that big caveat to your plan as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hi, Apologies in advance in case this turns out to be a long post. I haven't been through the visa / migration process before, so was hoping someone who has might be able to offer a different opinion or advice. Back story: My boyfriend and I have both have a Higher Diploma in IT and in Sept will both have 2 years experience as Software Developers. Programming / developing is on the skills shortage list...so here is our proposed plan... We are hoping to move to Australia (Melbourne) in September, and will both be still under 31, so would qualify for the WHV. However...we want to continue working as developers over there...and feel that the WHV may hinder our chances of gaining employment in this area. (Would this be a correct assumption to make?). In order to get good jobs in development we are considering applying for the independant skilled visa (me being the main applicant). The plan at the moment is for me to sit the IELTS during the summer (I am assuming I just need the general one?). Depending on my results this will hopefully bring my points up to 60, or up to 70 if I get the higher result. Then when we hand our notices into our employers we will look for the references we need to get our skills assessed. We will hopefully upload these before flying out to Australia on a WHV. Once we have our skills assessed and are obviously sure we want to stay longer than a year we will then put in our EOI for the skilled visa. Hopefully we will have gained some employment on the WHV in the mean-time while waiting for the independant visa to come through. Does this sound like a good plan...? Or are there major parts missing? We don't want to rely on luck by heading over on a WHV before we have two years experience in the hope of getting a developer job in a company that will also sponsor us. I guess I am just looking for advice from anyone in a similar situation. Thanks in advance Get your PR if you can while your in Ireland , not many employers will entertain you on WHV as they know you can only work for them for a short period of time and you will probably end up bouncing around doing agency work. Many Australian employers now want 2-5 years Australian experience before they will consider employing you in many industries. IT is also feeling the pinch here, there are jobs here but there seems to be a lot of outsourcing to Asia going on too. As the other people have stated the 457 sponsorship is going to be getting a lot tighter and the whole process will be overhauled in the near future as some employers are exploiting workers on 457. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Huge thanks to all three of you for your replies. I had looked into the skills assessment before...but now fear that I misunderstood a part of it. My post grad higher diploma doesn't seem to fall under the requirements for Group A (A only needs 2 years work experience): A Graduate Diploma or Master degree that does not require an ICT major degree level qualification or equivalent for entry, being substantially undergraduate in content, must • Contain a minimum of three semesters • Contain a minimum of twelve units • Contain two semesters of full-time equivalent ICT content • Be underpinned by an ICT or non-ICT degree level qualification or an AQF Advanced Diploma or Diploma equivalent • Have at least one semester of ICT study at a demonstrably advanced level It passes all of the criteria...except for the first point. It was 2 semesters long, not 3 I have a previous degree but it isn't IT related. My higher diploma course was a conversion course, which basically gives you a higher diploma in IT after one intense year of 12 modules. It is a level 8 course on the NFQ framework, so the same level as an Honours Bachelors Degree. Would applying for this under Group A be completely pointless if I don't satisfy the first point (3 semesters long)? Rupert, apologies for the confusion. I was referring to "we" re. the skills assessment as I can gain 5 extra points if my boyfriend passes the skills assessment too. The extra 5 points would be handy to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 It looks like it probably would be pointless to apply. You could consult a migration agent, but I'm guessing they will say you are going to have to get the extra work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Yeah I fear you might be right Blossom79 :-/ I have been reading a lot online about it and am finding some conflicting definitions. On the 'summary' description on the Australia Computer Society website we fit into Group A easily. However, in the longer description I posted above we fail due to the '3 semester' requirement. I am still hoping that that fact that it was a conversion course might work in our favour though. It is a H Dip course designed to get you up to degree level. However, since it says 'Higher Diploma" in the title they may not look any further than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Yeah I fear you might be right Blossom79 :-/ I have been reading a lot online about it and am finding some conflicting definitions. On the 'summary' description on the Australia Computer Society website we fit into Group A easily. However, in the longer description I posted above we fail due to the '3 semester' requirement. I am still hoping that that fact that it was a conversion course might work in our favour though. It is a H Dip course designed to get you up to degree level. However, since it says 'Higher Diploma" in the title they may not look any further than that. The ACS is not an easy skills assessment to pass, however if you are prepared to spend the money and risk a rejection then it is at least a lot cheaper than lodging a visa application. What occupation is it specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hi Rupert, My course was a conversion course which was to bring me up to degree level within one year. However the title of it is Higher Diploma in IT. It is level 8 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e. same level as Honours Bachelor Degrees. The occupation I would be applying under is Code 261312 Developer Programmer. My occupation since finishing the course is a Junior Software Developer, and I will be there two years later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Oh, and my original honours bachelor degree (before doing the H Dip) was a business related one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hi Rupert, My course was a conversion course which was to bring me up to degree level within one year. However the title of it is Higher Diploma in IT. It is level 8 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e. same level as Honours Bachelor Degrees. The occupation I would be applying under is Code 261312 Developer Programmer. My occupation since finishing the course is a Junior Software Developer, and I will be there two years later this year. Another issue here could be the job you are doing. Junior doesn't sound like the sort of title a skills assessor wants to hear. They go off what job you are doing, so if they don't think you are performing the role of a full developer programmer it will also be a fail I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Another issue here could be the job you are doing. Junior doesn't sound like the sort of title a skills assessor wants to hear. They go off what job you are doing, so if they don't think you are performing the role of a full developer programmer it will also be a fail I'm afraid. Thanks for your response Blossom79. I didn't realise the Junior part would cause a problem. I don't think it is possible for anyone to go straight from a college course to a senior developer position. I wonder if they would take that into consideration. Would migration agents be able to answer these questions...and do you usually have to pay much for them to give you this information? Also, does any list exist that lists what courses are recognised in Oz and what level they are recognised at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yes a good agent could answer these questions for you. Some will tell you if you are eligible for free. I can recommend George Lombard, or go Matilda is very highly thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks for your response Blossom79.I didn't realise the Junior part would cause a problem. I don't think it is possible for anyone to go straight from a college course to a senior developer position. I wonder if they would take that into consideration. Would migration agents be able to answer these questions...and do you usually have to pay much for them to give you this information? Also, does any list exist that lists what courses are recognised in Oz and what level they are recognised at? I would be happy to pay for a consultation in your shoes, it would be good to get these things clarified. If you go for the free consultation, you are only going to get high level generic information that you possibly already know, if you really want someone to dig deep then pay. I would say $100-$200 for good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yeah I think you are right Rupert. It is probably worth contacting a Migration Agent about this one. All of the Irish qualification websites I have looked at seem to place a Higher Diploma on par with a Bachelors Degree. Hopefully ACS see it this way too! Thanks for all of the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yeah I think you are right Rupert. It is probably worth contacting a Migration Agent about this one. All of the Irish qualification websites I have looked at seem to place a Higher Diploma on par with a Bachelors Degree. Hopefully ACS see it this way too! Thanks for all of the replies. For an opinion about the comparability of your academic qualification consult a RMA or try: https://aei.gov.au/Services-And-Resources/Services/Country-Education-Profiles/about-cep/Pages/default.aspx which is a subscription service and the only authoritative source. CEP does not offer information about the relevance of content for skills assessment or other purposes and you could expect a RMA might charge a fee for a professional analysis involving a review of you academic transcripts and possibly syllabi statements. You are playing with fire, but it is only money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 For an opinion about the comparability of your academic qualification consult a RMA or try: https://aei.gov.au/Services-And-Resources/Services/Country-Education-Profiles/about-cep/Pages/default.aspx which is a subscription service and the only authoritative source. CEP does not offer information about the relevance of content for skills assessment or other purposes and you could expect a RMA might charge a fee for a professional analysis involving a review of you academic transcripts and possibly syllabi statements. You are playing with fire, but it is only money. Hi WRussel, Would Migrant Agents have a subscription to the site you linked to? Or can that only be used by assessing bodies like ACS and the like? I won't have my 2 years work experience until September, so I can't submit my details for a skills assessment until then...but would like to know before then if my course is recognised at the right level. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum of 5 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 See if you can get tickets for the working abroad expo (book them in advance, and get there early). They have a stand from Aust. House, and they can give you the advice on which options are available and which would best suit you. There are also recruiters, which may lead you to sponsorship. I went 18 months ago and got all the questions we had answered in person, and all the questions that we didn't know we had were answered too. The next one is on this weekend. Worth a look if you are serious about going, you never know where it might lead you! Good luck :wubclub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrelandToOz Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 See if you can get tickets for the working abroad expo (book them in advance, and get there early). They have a stand from Aust. House, and they can give you the advice on which options are available and which would best suit you. There are also recruiters, which may lead you to sponsorship. I went 18 months ago and got all the questions we had answered in person, and all the questions that we didn't know we had were answered too. The next one is on this weekend. Worth a look if you are serious about going, you never know where it might lead you! Good luck :wubclub: Yeah I was trying to decide whether to go along to this or not, but you have persuaded me to I thought it might be mostly Canada related this year. Hopefully that isn't the case. I might dust off my cv and update it too and bring it along...just in case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Hi WRussel, Would Migrant Agents have a subscription to the site you linked to? Or can that only be used by assessing bodies like ACS and the like? I won't have my 2 years work experience until September, so I can't submit my details for a skills assessment until then...but would like to know before then if my course is recognised at the right level. Thanks! Anybody can subscribe to the CEP. Last time I looked the fee was about $45 for a single country subscription and considerably more for the whole deal, which migration agents who work in skilled migration should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum of 5 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yeah I was trying to decide whether to go along to this or not, but you have persuaded me to I thought it might be mostly Canada related this year. Hopefully that isn't the case. I might dust off my cv and update it too and bring it along...just in case! There are alot of stands that are a waste of time, but if you need specific info, it's a great place to get it. But I really would say be there EARLY! and book in advance, when we went we stood in the queue for 2 hrs, there was a queue for those who hadn't booked with ppl waiting all day, and they were turned away. I think they have a bigger venue now, as they really weren't expecting so many to turn up that weekend. Overall we were in for about an hour, but came out with all our answers and more, so was worth the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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