Peccavi

................btw Yes I do believe that will inevitably occur because of the obesity 'epidemic', and I have little doubt that like the 'guide dogs in restaurants' thing, allowances will be made for the genuinely disabled. My weight gain is not genuine disablement; I could argue stress and unhappiness, but then someone who lost a lot of weight could argue that also! It's down to me,-but the lure of the dark chocolate digestive is my drug of choice- 'choice' being the operative word. Good discussion! Happy New Year to you and to all! (I need a biccie break...)

I gave this some thought and decided to go back and look carefully at that advert. Male: Header: "Dawn of the Drug Driver" - 'If you drive on drugs, you're a danger to yourself and others.' "Invasion of the mindless drunk" - 'Alcohol related A&E admissions double between 8pm and 5am at weekends. __________________________ Female: "Night of the Reckless Drunk" - 'When you drink too much you lose control and put yourself at risk'. ______________________ The first one (male) relates more closely to the female one. (The 'mindless' drunk example is simply used to show hospital admissions). So: The first clearly identifies the type (Drug Driver) and gives the male 'ownership' of his actions. The one directed at females refers to "reckless" drunk and takes that ownership away suggesting that her fate is in the hands of others because of her drinking. This is stereotyping pure and simple. And it is so common that I dare say the promotions people in that Council didn't give it a second thought. Because it's a mindset. For the record: drunk/alone at night...not very wise. But that is down to the potential attacker, NOT the victim.

We agree to disagree then! We are all getting larger, it is something that has to be handled when the space to 'store' us does not enlarge also. Either it does, or we accept that we pay a surcharge for 'storing' a larger percentage of self in a greater space. If we are talking about luggage we have no problem with that concept, but when it comes to self suddenly it's an issue. I am 4st over weight:embarrassed: and at the moment not a problem for others, -but when it does impact on others, it will be my problem, not theirs...if it has been a choice to be that size.

What I have been skirting around is the difference between those who cannot do anything about a situation, and those who can. I include myself in that second group btw.

Hummm, either sarcasm, or you are a gracious thinker who used the edit facility promptly so that the edit notice didn't show......! HA! The ludicrous assumption that I did not already know this, when I have indicated more than once that I did. 'Comparison' is compelling isn't it? It became necessary with the 'onset of civilisation' for the British Empire to cut out its less than impeccable human rights record. It grew up. Australia never has. Your post is evidence of that. I can almost hear you stamping your feet! The smartest Australian (no not a veiled insult about others. I never met a more multi skilled human being in my life than him) told me that his country was young and immature still. And still throws a tantrum at Mummy!! .................and the 'restrict non White immigration' statement? Nice try. It was actually the mid 70's, and as I previously said, retired senior departmental officials (I saw interviews with two of them), insist it went on covertly until the early 80's. See what I mean? England has indeed killed more people-it had years more practice than Australia. And yes (it gets tedious),..I actually do know about what it has done-and I have never sought to condone it. Ever. That silly and childish statement that White Australians were 'extremely late on the scene' is the most transparent piece of disengenuous nonsense I have read in order to do the usual: deflect blame and responsibility to others-namely the British. "We never 'dun it" !!! It is Kindy speak! Just for once take responsibility for your own current situation where treatment of your Indigenous peoples is lamentable and has had you criticised globally. Just for once cop it sweet, and don't come up with another crop of 'well they were worse than us'. Just for once prove maturity. As I said, no country is a hero; not even the grossly over marketed 'paradise' of Australia.

Unfortunately we (all) take things to generalisation. No one can help being 6' 2" and 14-15st which is proportionate to body mass. But (and though not morbidly obese) I am overweight-I do not feel any difficulty saying that I would/did not like to be squashed by a person carrying a load of extra weight. It can be called bickering or intolerance or petty to say that, but the flip side of it is that we simply don't accept any responsibility for anything nowadays. It IS a problem, and with us (inclusive), becoming increasingly...er,bulky, coupled with airline cattle class-it is uncomfortable and without question something will eventually have to be done about it.. I once was forced to sit next to a morbidly obese person on a long coach trip. I had booked my seat very early, but of course that made no difference-the seat next to me (I found out afterward) was allocated at the last minute-the bus was full. I'm damned if I'm going to look like some travelling Scrooge because I had to put up with (in this case) bad breath and body odour, and being squeezed in my seat for hours on end. It was foul. I asked for a pitstop to get fresh air and felt ill-yes ill by the time that journey was over. It was as clear as a bell that the driver was unhappy that he could not do anything. (My money was refunded on complaint). Just to be clear: my money was refunded because I did not get the benefit of a full seat. This persons body mass took their seat and half of mine. It was vile, and I don't feel awkward for saying so! I'm not overly impressed with that passengers use of terminology, but find it interesting that he used humour to try to convey how uncomfortable it is. My journey across the world was particularly on the first leg, quite invaded with young children. They were lively, even mildly irritating because they spent most of their time in the aisle,-but they were children on a long haul flight, and they were bright decent youngsters. I read this thread twice before deciding to post. It ticks me off that people who are already squeezed up are judged negatively because they don't want it further compounded by morbidly obese people. ............and we are talking about the morbidly obese (that's the terminology folks!). It has little to do with sitting next to a big bloke (difficult perhaps, but it is a natural body build) or a 'fat' person, which we are in increasing numbers. It has everything to do with having the right to object to being squeezed further in the small amount of space already allocated, by someone of very hefty bulk. You cannot put that down to all m/obese people having a thyroid problem or whatever. We have to take responsibility for ourselves! The time has to come when those carrying a large mass of extra weight pay for a wider seat (future?)/or two seat allocation. Stop making people who end up with less then a full seat allocation the bad guys!

Totally agree. Quote from a woman critical of the 'campaign': "I've yet to see a Christmas anti-drink-driving campaign telling people to stay indoors in case they get run over by a drunk driver." THIS is the core issue. Of course someone (anyone) is more vulnerable when alone and not in full command of their faculties, but there is a continuing and compelling need when it comes to the 'short dress/deserved it' syndrome of blame the victim. The cretins who thought of this will keep their jobs of course. They always do.

...........as I said, Australia is very sensitive on this issue.. ............as I said, the 'look who started it' thing always comes up... Did I 'spout off' about 'how great' it was living with the British Africans? (You do realise don't you that this little tirade is showing more about you than it is me..?) "Did you not see how many immigrants were in Australia when you loved there for so long" (I hope that last part was a Freudian slip? I did have my moments though....) Yes, I saw. I saw that the early Chinese settlers were treated like dirt; that the Italians were ridiculed and called wops and dago's, that the Asians were disparaged with utter vitriol, that the Greeks were ridiculed for their community closeness and their food, that the Somalis are currently looked on as all criminals. I saw that this Commonwealth Country had a race discrimination policy in place for decades and got away with it. Here's the thing AGAIN: no country has clean hands, mankind generally has shown a total intolerance and disregard for other colours and creeds. BUT: Australia denies it. Australia criticises other nations/people/systems, but is as touchy as hell when it is criticised. It gets angry and deflects responsibility to ancesters (God they're handy!!). True of course, but then absolves itself with the bald statement that Indigenous Australians are 'treated better than ever before'!! In simple terms:-your view is crap/you did it/we treat them well. Thanks for proving things conclusively. I am enjoying your posts though. ______________________________ It's a discussion forum, please don't upset yourself. You wouldn't give a damn for my opinion in real life; as I wouldn't for yours. That's life.

Ahhhhh my dear, this is so telling! Your assertion that there is nobody better than him, plus his lack of personal relationships, shows a devotion to someone who may-may have a problem with relationships and commitments. Thus there could well be some real heartache in this for you. If you feel this way,-then you must be prepared to carry this emotional load and no one can really help. I hope it works out; I really do. ________________________________________ I know it must be so difficult for you: coping with the personal situation, seeking advice online,-and then coping with the onslaught of us all who are simply responding with our opinions!! It is probably now compounding your problem; now you have to defend the situation to us! It is the classic: 'well I did ask'!! Good luck.

It is always interesting to read the different views on this type of situation, and I only hope talking about it is helping in some small way. My view is the same/different! Five years; its been five years, with four visits, and yet you have not met his family (if he hasn't got family, then surely this would have come up-with all due respect, he seems to be good at excuses). Five years. Control of a situation that concerns both of you should be had-by both of you. But he has the control-and you have completely lost control of your own future. (I am a little sceptical of the illness thing as well). I would personally get that control back. it's the 'if you love something set it free...' type scenario. Email him and tell him that the situation has confused and distressed you, because you don't feel that you have any say in the decision making process. Then tell him you are taking a break because of this. If he emails you, I would ignore him, and continue to ignore him, until you feel you have some input into the situation. The hard fact is that such an act would also be a test of commitment. If you don't get any emails-and that continued-then you have your answer. If he repeatedly emailed you, it would show him that he has strong feelings for you. He needs to see that. Or you need to see he has not. By holding on to the current situation, you have a large slice of nothing,-except stress and unhappiness. Best wishes to you.

Of course Australia can control its immigration!!!! It has little tolerance for its own Indigenous people-I view with great pleasure seeing British Indians/Africans as society here-I mean they are us! Don't tell me that occurs in Australia because it does not; there is a definite separation. Bluntly Australian has thrived on this race intolerance, and I know very well that many people leave Britain for Australia because they like the way Australia deals with 'people not like us'. Look at all the nastiness directed at the Vietnamese boat people; that racist vitriol has now gone. Because they did NOT swamp the country and 'take all the jobs' etc. When a PM deliberately causes racial tension by saying "we'll decide who comes here", he knew full well what it would feed into and that in Australia certainly, it would be an election winner. Yes. Australia can control its immigration, which is not actually a ringing endorsement. I think the leanings we all have are quite glaringly apparent, don't you agree? As dear Pauline would say: please explain.

I note you are continuing this 'off topic' discussion, I see little point in discussing point for point, but draw your attention to the fact that I said 'not all'. This 'twisting' thing is irresistible isn't it? I have a good view from the top of a hill in a small village. I have checked every morning first thing, and noooooo, there is no more concrete than there was yesterday. Seriously; the countryside of Great Britain is renowned the World over. Even those congenital idiots in public office know full well what would happen to GB's status on the global stage if it was overrun with high rise flats and God knows what else. The loss of tourism revenue would be catastrophic. The title is "Bye Bye Green and Pleasant Land". That too is irresistible to quote-for someone living in Australia.... No surprises there.

Weeeeell, it beats a golden shower hands down. As I said, I am indebted to you. Without a doubt you are knowledgeable and quite innovative. I await your next brilliant idea with eager anticipation (loofah sales have gone through the roof btw; the Stock Market is reeling). Green groups are having crisis meetings because they no longer need to chain themselves to trees, their credibility is destroyed. All they needed was loofahs, and any water source would suffice. Blue: that's called 'Claytons' btw. Brown: 'lucky'? Not even to have a 'Claytons shower? You clearly have a olfactory problem. I see now why this matter so concerns you. It's called memory by association.. How sad that you seem not to know why these families 'sold these houses in the first place'. You surely are able to grasp that such folks do not all deliberately deny their offspring the family home? That there might be other compelling factors for selling? It isn't difficult to work out. Blue: It's easily done isn't it? Brown: Me too.

...............For all these small blessings may the Lord make me truly thankful! This give me an unabashed triumphant laugh! Do you know what heat does to the body? What crowded non air conditioned buses do to the atmosphere when crowded together in that heat? I have never experienced more pungent body odour then in an Australian Summer. People smell in supermarkets, on those buses, taxi's can be rank (no pun intended. Ahh go on then!), not because of passengers, but because their drivers have to remain static waiting for fares. Engine off/ ac off.... It stinks! Body pong crosses classes and creeds and nationalities. I got such a wry satisfaction when listening to some sweaty bozo in Australia talking about 'unwashed Poms'!! ........I must admit though I AM struggling with seeing how 'lack of personal hygiene' could affect the green and pleasant land? I would submit your ideas to every Town Planner and Developer in the land, it simply never occurred to me that we could maintain the greenery with a loofah and some hot water. You might be on the very edge of a breakthrough. I shall watch the Daily Mail and the Sun and other quality journals in eager anticipation for the scoop of the century! I am indebted to you.

Oh how I wish! (But I suspect you and I have a different interpretation of that acronym...)

I agree. __________________________ I know the DM is routinely ridiculed, but I suppose it's possible that they do write some decent stuff?? Certainly they can be relied upon to ensure the World knows what an horrendous place the UK is. I wonder at the mental processes of those who actually want to live here/ want to return here /are happy here? Surely we should admire the migrants- illegal or otherwise, the Romanians/ Bolivians and Swazilanders for their courage in coming to the living hell they are about to experience. For my money I hold in the utmost respect the opinions of those in Australia, or those planning to go to Australia who show yet again that their decision was correct in leaving this cesspool for Paradise. The demarcation line of Australian Wisdom so clearly showing on this thread. Thank-you, from the bottom of my heart. (I think I got that the wrong way around). Why is it all so incessantly predictable?

There's the thing you see; here was I living in Doctor/Lawyer territory, but have no problem going to darkest Enfield to shop! (Our one N/A supermarket was voted the most expensive one in SA in 2006. Lovely place, oak panelled floors, and a wonderful cheeses selling from $60 to 160 a kilo! Owned by a albeit nice family who own 18 others. They are needless to say; millionaires) So I went to Enfield. It's all relative isn't it? I would hate to live in Elizabeth/Smithfield (North Mxmanus), or Hackham/Christies (South). But so very many who live there are good people who love their suburb, yet who are consistently subjected to having the area disparaged. I agree Mxmanus should G/Earth. It will show some pleasant streets, adjacent to Main North Road which is a direct run through N/A and into the City. About half a mile going South is the Nailsworth Library. It has an art gallery as well as books, and a reading room with all the latest newspapers and mags. Given its location/shopping centres (one either side of MN Rd-and another one just adjacent to those,-and good access to the City-it is not a bad choice for living. Perhaps I should add-I had no connection with any Council or promotional body. I just know Enfield well.

You have put up an informative post and I completely understand your pov, however I don't agree with it. I don't believe for a moment that all those trying to find somewhere to live are doing this, but all must pay. I remain of the view that this 'principle' of surcharging has become so commonplace now, simply because it can be done when people have absolutely no other choice. Charging 'extra' for this or that service is now done because we have to have housing/ power/ and communication. It succeeds because there is no option. If we ever return to a buyers market, these charges I suspect would dramatically reduce or disappear entirely.

Sorry Melza, I don't agree. I lived in North Adelaide for 37 years. I would pop up to the shopping centre at Enfield 2-3 miles away weekly, to do my shopping. I am completely unaware of any public housing estate there (I have worked for that department), because PH in Australia is generally not in 'housing estates', it is mixed into the community. Are you thinking of Elizabeth where there are many PH homes? Enfield is a good mid range suburb. It has leafy streets, and two good shopping centres with several food outlets. It is an easy run in to the City, both by bus and car. It has no greater or lesser crime problems than anywhere else. Good luck Mxmanus!

I agree. And the fact that it routinely occurs is significant. Australians by their very (Western democracy) isolation, have learned to be self sufficient. They DO have a lifestyle of cliques. That is not a criticism, it was an observation of over three decades. It is harder to make friends in Australia. Yet again there is the need to suggest it is the fault of those finding difficulty in establishing friendships. That might be true in some cases, but I suggest in most, it is not. This would not be repeatedly raised if it wasn't an issue. How often is it raised in the UK? As I said, Australians have learned to be self sufficient. Form your own friendships with like minded people, even if they are other 'Poms'! If you develop friendships over the years with your general neighbourhood, then all well and good. It IS an issue. It is repeatedly raised. More than being distressed by it, people should accept that Australia is not the UK, it has its own customs, and its own nature.

Very many! 'Mature aged' couples/singles have returned to the UK, on a regular basis for years I think. Being sure is the main qualifier; not age. Good luck! Add: I am around your age, and returned after 37 years.

To be blunt this is a modern day ethic that I loathe and detest. The fact of 'if you complain about it we'll find another way to charge you'. The corner shop owner absorbed the cost when he chose to paint his shop, he didn't put prices up to cover it, he needed and valued his customers. You can justify this any way you want, but these are relatively new costs. The ethic nowadays is to charge extra for what was part of service provision in the past. And of course-as you have done; it is defended. It nothing more than holding those in need to ransom. I wish Shelter every success, and hold those who find a way around it; in utter contempt.

I read somewhere (a few months back) that these 'admin fees' are or were being investigated under consumer/company? law...

1) It never fails to amaze me how views are distorted to suit the view of the person responding to them. It is deliberate of course. 2) I think you would have remarkable success frankly! 3) Love this! 'I do not agree with your view' = 'it's rubbish'!! Perish the thought that 'liberators' are anything but heroes. 4) Those two creatures did not need 'to suffer directly', nor be 'citizens of either country' to become zealots. Belief systems-religion has no borders. Each believes theirs is the one true God. And ALL, throughout history have destroyed/killed countless millions in the name of the 'Father'. We should have told them that. It would have made such a difference... Innocent people. Creed or colour should not make innocent victims simply 'collateral damage'. Remember that comment: "nice". Is that gunship pilot a hero because he is an American 'liberator'? 'Nice'-after murdering innocent people. Nice. Have we become so dehumanised that such comments/actions can be defended by the 'they deserved it' rationale,-or the popular one: the footage is untrue/edited/distorted/ etc., WE are responsible for causing Islam to be the fastest growing religion in the World. Nice.

Yes and no....the bottom line is the details I have pointed out have been an issue for many years before the British and American troops went into Afghanistan...even during the time when the UK Gov supported the Taliban with resources whilst the Taliban were fighting against Russia. Has it made a difference? Of course not. No country has managed to tackle Afghanistan with success. The first line of my point that you highlighted, which I was making to 'Joe Strummer' who told everyone who posted their views on this thread that they are 'right wing'. Have a read for yourself. I know that region very very well. I have no intention of expanding on that. I do not need a history lesson. The Russians of course invaded. The West of course liberated. We have to change our attitude before we can change our behaviour. .........and I can read; as can you. Please note the area I highlighted of JS' post. Yes. I actually do know it was the politicians. It is not actually senior military who order invasion; it is Government/politicians... I have corrected the bit you inadvertently left out of your post. Yes I take your point about the 'threat of Islam'. This little island/s; this GB, will simply roll over and hand their homes/jobs/country to 'these people'. ................if memory serves me right, I recall that this wee place held its own for 3 full years against a massive threat until the USA administration thought it prudent to lend a hand. Please have more faith in your fellow countrymen. They have no historical record of being pushovers; rather to the contrary..... ...and they did what had to be done without hate, but with dedicated focus. I have no fear of waking to find myself homeless and defeated. I, like others will fight back if and when it is necessary. Xenophobic fear mongering has always been the excuse de jour for killing innocent people.