Marisawright

You are absolutely right, of course. But the key is that my attitude MAY have totally changed. What if it didn't, where would I be then? Trapped in a restricted, impoverished new life, and grieving the life I was perfectly happy with before some idiot promised me my feelings would change. Several mothers have posted here to say that motherhood is very tough, but the overwhelming love you feel for your children makes up for it. If you don't feel that overwhelming love, then there's no upside, there's just duty. For me, it was too big a risk to take on other people's say-so, considering it meant putting my whole life on the line. I don't have a good track record with that kind of thing! I once went abseiling because I was told it would be an amazing, life-changing experience which would give me new-found confidence and cure my fear of heights. I did the whole course, including the longest abseil (which some people didn't attempt) - hated every minute of it, didn't lose my fear of heights and would never do it again. Ditto when someone told me that once I'd tried a roller-coaster I'd love it - didn't. My own sister was like me, got pregnant by accident and dreaded the birth because she was sure she would hate being a mother. She was amazed how strongly she felt for the baby and she went on to have two more, so you'd think that would reassure me, yes? BUT although she says she feels "like a lioness who would do anything to protect her cubs", I think her "maternal instinct" is more like a man's than a woman's. I wonder how she would feel if her oh hadn't given up work to be the house-husband. She's a high-flying career woman, took the absolute minimum of maternity leave, and now leaves home at 6am and isn't back until after the kids are in bed. She doesn't have to work (her oh has pots of money) and he would dearly love the whole family to retire to their holiday villa in France, but she won't. Besides, as Bound4Tassie says, you can't miss what you've never experienced.

I read Naomi's comment as tongue in cheek, though I do think "cuteness" is a protective thing. Yes there are herd animals who look after other babies (e.g. elephants, meerkats) but it's not a common thing in the animal world: for instance hippos will kill other's offspring to prevent competition, and it's very hard to get some species to suckle another's young if the mother dies. As for fertility and safety - actually I agree the best time to have babies is in your twenties, but I certainly wouldn't tell any young woman she "should" have babies at that age. She should have one if she wants one - and if she wants one, she won't be asking whether to go ahead, or whether she can afford it - the drive will be too strong for that.

Which just goes to show you didn't even bother to read my post properly. I did not make that statement and that's not what they were liking. I'll try again. There are TWO kinds of maternal instinct you're referring to: first there's the love of babies and the desire for one of your own, and then there's loving the child once it arrives. The two are not connected and it's possible to feel one without the other. The vast majority of animals and birds express no interest in, and will not care for, other individual's babies - so the "love of babies" maternal instinct is a HUMAN thing. And we don't even know how widespread it is in humans, because it's just not allowed in our society for women NOT to coo over a baby. As you can see on these forums, though, it's not universal by any means. Then there's the love for the child once it arrives. Again, it is expected in our society that all women fall madly in love with their babies. It's true for many and it's great for those it happens to, but it does NOT happen to everyone - and it's really irresponsible of some people to pressure women who don't feel the desire to have kids with cliches like "oh you must have children, it completes you, you'll never regret it, blah blah blah...". Because some women never do get that madly in love feeling, and without it, kids are tough.

See, that's the kind of statement that upsets me. That statement implies there is something "unnatural" because I don't feel clucky about babies. I don't think you can say that of other species, because other species don't know how to use birth control - they don't have babies because they have a maternal instinct, they have babies because they're an inevitable consequence of sex! Besides, many other species don't take any interest in babies which are not their own - and mamy even kill other mother's offspring which suggests the opposite! After a baby is born, then that's a different kind of maternal instinct. I do know women who couldn't be bothered with babies before their own child arrived, and then they were devoted. Again, however, I don't think you can draw any conclusion from other species or even from women in general: you don't know how they feel, only how they behave. If I had ever got pregnant, there is no way I would've walked away from that child - it would be my responsibility as a human being, regardless of whether I turned all gooey-eyed.

This is what always worried me. So many women told me I MUST NOT miss the chance to have children because, "you may not want a baby now, but you will adore it when it arrives". But I know that's doesn't happen to 100% of women, so what if it didn't happen to me?

So true! I'm over sixty and never had children, and often feel I have to make excuses for it. But the truth is I just never felt broody, and have never seen what's so especially cute about babies (they're just little people). I couldn't see the point of giving up my comfortable life just because I "should" have kids, especially since there are too many people in the world already. Many mothers have told me I must have kids because "once that baby arrives, you'll fall in love" - but I always thought, what if I don't? I can hardly hand it back and say, "no thanks". It always seemed like a very big step to take on someone else's say-so!! They also told me I'd regret it when I got old - not so far. In fact, I think I'm lucky, because so many of my friends are totally lost and feel like their lives have ended because their kids have grown up and moved on. I don't miss what I never had, and my life is continuing as it always has.

Definitely over-thinking it. No one can really afford to have kids, you just manage somehow when they arrive. I don't have kids myself but what happens when my friends have kids is that they change their lifestyle. Right now you're probably buying more clothes, going on more holidays, eating out/drinking more often etc. Your priorities (and your opportunities for all that) will change once you have children and that will free up money to help pay for them.

I think that's because, even though you went overseas for a while, you were regarded as living continuously in Australia up to that point. So you weren't just in Oz for a full year before claiming, you'd been in Oz for however-many-years before that. If we went overseas now (at 61) and became deemed non-resident, so our continuous residence was broken, the two year rule would apply.

Interesting! I did know you could get credits simply by being resident in the UK but unemployed, although I thought you had to be registered unemployed. For some reason I didn't connect that with the fact that you (and my husband) will have a few years in the UK before reaching retirement age! There is a spouse pension too, as you say - I still can't get my head around that one!

I have! I'm curious how you got to 3.77 a week - I thought you hadn't worked in the UK at all? I just went through it as if I had never worked in the UK and my result was precisely 0.00.

Thanks, that is brilliant! This section is pretty clear as far as I can see: "The Social Security Agreement between the United Kingdom (UK) and Australia was terminated by Australia and ended on 28 February 2001. When in force the agreement helped people moving between the two countries by allowing ... periods of Australian residence to count as periods when UK National Insurance Contributions had been paid in claims for UK basic State Pension... For people living in or coming to the UK after the agreement ended, the UK Government has made special arrangements to allow periods of residence in Australia, up to April 2001, to be taken into account in claims for basic State Pension and bereavement benefits. " That post also says that if we were to move to Italy or Spain, for instance, I'd lose the extra pension. However in either of those places, I'd be able to claim the Australian pension as they have a social security arrangement so no loss! My husband is in a similar situation to your wife. He has never worked in the UK and would really prefer to retire, but he would work for a year or two before retirement if that would mean getting the UK pension. I had hoped they might give me some advice on that but my enquiry, while acknowledged, has never been answered.

No they wouldn't, unless their partner is older and is already in receipt of the Australian Centrelink pension BEFORE they leave the country. Neither of you will be eligible to claim the Australian Centrelink pension once you become resident in the UK. If you remain in Australia and your wife goes to claim the Centrelink pension, they will insist that she claims her UK pension first, then they will reduce the Centrelink pension accordingly. It is not possible to purchase a UK government pension, though you can make SOME back payments IF you have worked in the UK for at least a year. I believe it is possible to purchase a commercial product just like it's possible to purchase a commercial pension in Australia with your superannuation.

Many thanks for that, now I am confused. My pension forecast says that if I produce evidence of my Australian work record before 2001, I may be able to claim those years "as if I had paid NI contributions for those years". Whereas that example implies that I can use those years to meet the minimum qualifications, but my actual pension will be calculated on actual NI contributions. If that's true, that's a bummer!

I've been researching this for several months so I've already been through most of those! The BPIA website is especially useful and thanks to them, I already have my British pension forecast and have paid some extra NI contributions to ensure I'll get the full UK pension. I think you said your wife had worked in the UK - if so she can request her pension forecast here: https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-statement Frozen pensions are irrelevant to you - that refers to the fact that UK pensioners living in Australia don't get increases in the UK pension. For Australians moving abroad, there is no freezing - there's just no pension! I'm confident the information I've given you about getting the Australian pension is correct. The trouble is, 90% of the information is for Brits moving to Australia. There is much less information for Brits returning to the UK - and none for Australians retiring to the UK. So I haven't been able to get any certainty about whether my husband, who has never worked in the UK, will be able to get a UK pension.

You will not be able to claim the Australian government pension at all in that case - you have to be living in Australia on the day you claim it, and remain resident for a period of two years. If you think about it, that's not practical - you'd basically have to sell up, come back for two years, then sell up and move back all over again! With the British pension, you need a certain minimum amount of NI contributions to become eligible. So you'll need to work in the UK when you get there, to build up your contributions. Then but only then, you can use your Australian pre-2001 work record to count towards the UK pension, but you'll need evidence from each of your employers with dates etc. What I can't tell you is how many years you'd need to work. I did find one site which said that if you're going to use your Australian work record, you need only one year's NI contributions - but it wasn't the official govt site and I haven't been able to find confirmation anywhere. If you do, please let me know!!

Exactly! People can get obsessed with avoiding tax, even when it's not beneficial - you only have to look at negative gearing. If you do it intelligently (so your "loss" is only on paper) it can be very profitable, but I see too many people making a real loss on their property and thinking that means they're somehow ahead, just because they paid no tax. Whereas there's no guarantee their capital gain will offset that cost in the long run. Good luck with the accountants.

I suspect that's probably true.

No, if you come back and live for a year before you claim it, you'll still have to stay for one more year or they'll take it away from you. The rule is you have to be in the country the day you claim, and you have to be resident for two full years around that time, either before or after or during.

We could cash ours out now, but we're not going to. We figure that if we take the lump sum over to the UK, we would get a rotten interest rate there - whereas left in our super, it will earn at a much higher rate. We won't need the money for a while, at least until we buy a house, and we're not going to rush into that. We'll convert it to a pension later on, and will pay UK tax on that: but we figure that we'll have been earning higher interest on it for some time, so that will help offset any tax. Our main worry is not getting the Aussie pension. You can imagine the cost of coming back to Australia for two full years - it would cost as much as a permanent move - so we won't be doing that. However we've done the pension calculator and it's unlikely we'd get the full Aussie pension for several years anyway: I'll be much better off using my Australian experience to get the UK pension, which I'll get from day 1. We've read something about my oh being able to claim it too, if he works for a year after we arrive: but I haven't been able to find confirmation of that.

Actually it's TWO years. You can come back to Australia and claim the pension on day 1, but you then have to stay for two years - otherwise they'll take it away again.

I have just about driven myself crazy working out all the permutations of this! I did get a recommendation for a financial adviser here, rang him and he told me I needed a tax accountant instead, so bear that in mind. However he did answer a lot of my questions. I'm now very clear about the following: 1. If you're going back to the UK, make sure you dispose of any investment properties or shares in Australia while you're still resident. If you keep them, Australia will charge you 30% tax on all income (no tax-free threshold), AND if you subsequently sell them, you'll pay capital gains on 100% of the profit. 2. It's OK to keep money in bank accounts, provided that's the ONLY investment you have left in Oz (excluding super). In that case, the bank will withhold 10% of the interest and that's it - no Aussie tax return required. However you will need to declare it on your UK tax return (you also declare the tax paid so the UK don't tax it twice). Note that if you have ANY other investments in Australia as well as the bank accounts, you'll pay 30% on the bank interest as well! 3. Superannuation - if your super is with a retail or industry fund, while your super is sitting in your super account, you don't have to declare it for tax in either country. N.B. If your fund is a self-managed super fund, the rules are different. Basically you must get rid of it - otherwise you will pay Australian tax at 46%. 4. If you convert your super to a pension, those payments will be taxed by the UK as ordinary income. 5. If you move from Australia to the UK before you reach pension age, wave goodbye to your Australian government pension - you will never be able to claim it. However provided you made some NI contributions in the past, you can claim your pre-2001 Australian work record towards a UK pension. The next bit is where it gets confusing. This is what I think I know: 1. If you take your superannuation as a lump sum before you leave Australia, it's tax free. Once it's in your Aussie bank account, it's just savings. If you wait until after you're in the UK before taking the lump sum, the UK government will want a slice - I'm still not clear how much tax and when it's calculated from. 2. If you leave a large amount of savings in an Australian bank account and subsequently transfer it to the UK, you may be hit for capital gains on the foreign exchange profit. We're not going to worry about this, because the interest we get on an Aussie bank account is so much greater than we could get in the UK, we feel we'll still be better off.

There are probably several. In an office building that has multiple tenants, it's unlikely you'll need an access card to use the lifts. After all, they all have customers who need to visit them! Just look for a tenant on a high floor, and you should be able to get in the lift and go to that floor. Explain your situation to the receptionist and most will be happy to let you sit in reception for a while. I can recall sitting in a reception area on the top floor of the MLC building once, waiting for an interview. No idea who the company was or whether they're still there, though.

This is probably a silly question, but is there any point in considering taking an Australian car over to the UK (and do you arrange that?). Our Lancer is 5 years old but very low km and if we were staying in Australia, we'd probably keep it for another 5 years.

We looked into this exhaustively and I agree, it's confusing. If you're over 60 and take money from your Australian super fund, it gets special treatment, and is not taxable in Australia - as you know. If you have moved to the UK, any money you draw from your super is classed as income. It gets no special treatment. To quote: "The general rule is that where double taxation agreement is available, the country of the pensioner's residence has taxing right in relation to pensions sourced from another country. For example, a UK resident receives an allocated pension from an Australian fund. No tax is payable by the Australia fund, tax on the pension is payable instead by the pensioner in the UK." http://www.ngssuper.com.au/assets/Downloads/Retiring-Overseas.pdf