Les Mighalls' Notes from DIAC Roadshow - Discussion

[Les Mighalls]

As requested, some of my notes from the DIAC briefings of last week;

 

Points test changes to come in a few weeks.

Cap & cease by occupation to be introduced.

DIAC wants to reduce the number of applications.

Transitional arrangements for current students but must lodge 485 before 31DEC2012.

SMPs should be in place by 01JUL2010 but still part of overall plan.

Independent GSM places being reduced, Govt. wants flexibility, and not preclude very good applicants. More value being placed on English, academic qualifications and work experience.

One of motivators for change is that economic benefits decreasing from migration program as number of applicants from HR countries increases with consequent drops in skill levels and average income earned by migrants decreases.

Therefore decrease n GSM, increase in ENS/RSMS planned and intend to make it easier fro 457s to progress to PR.

Family sponsored skilled migration is giving poorest employment outcomes.

Current concerns include bogus spouse applications being attached to on-shore applications.

Business skills applications are currently paused.

New SOL will have new skills assessment bodies and spell out points.

New SOL does not affect students on 572/3/4 as at 08FEB2010 provided they apply for a 485 before 31DEC2012. If no 485 need to nominate for New SOL occupation.

Visa capping Bill allows for Cap & Cease by occupation but power will not be used lightly.

No new points test for several months yet.

Flagged possibility that at some time in the future ALL applications will go into a pool for employers and Governments to dip into and select nominations from.

Govt. favouring 457s to address skills shortages and numbers of 457s have been increasing since SEP2009 with 457 processing times taking between 16 and 56 days depending on skills grouping.

Some amendments still to come in SBS and Training Benchmarks

Sponsorship accreditation process and outcome to be changed so that if approved can sponsor across entire category.

ANZSCO 5-7 will require Labour Agreements

ENS/RSMS under review with respect to English language standards, exceptional circumstances exemptions, skills assessments and possible introduction of a Regional SOL.

New SMPs will cut off-list nominations for each State from 500 to 100 per year.

[SHANO7]

Hi les

 

Was there any mention of what would happen with applicants who have state sponsorship but not on SOl. i.e Hairdressing ?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[capetosydney]

As requested, some of my notes from the DIAC briefings of last week;

 

Points test changes to come in a few weeks.

 

No new points test for several months yet.

 

 

 

Hmm, which one is it then??:eek:

[Les Mighalls]

Hmm, which one is it then??

 

DIAC must be unsure as I took notes from two different presenters.

 

Obviously one presenter said one thing, the other the other.

 

As for me, I just wait and see until it is black letter.

 

The moral of the story, as always with migration applications, is that if you qualify now get an application in asap before the Government changes its mind.

[Les Mighalls]

Was there any mention of what would happen with applicants who have state sponsorship but not on SOL. i.e Hairdressing ?

 

Hi Shane,

 

The presentations did not get down to that level of detail, but were at a higher level talking about where the Department was going, what their problems were and just informing us of changes coming in and when.

 

I suspect that like all Government departments, what sounds good in committees often fails to understand and allow for people living real lives not just numbers and economic units. Too often all these planners graduate with economics and politics degrees before getting a Public Service job and never see much of the real world.

 

There were a few questions from the floor in Melbourne including one guy who was a bit stroppy and doing his best to get stuck into Peter Speldewinde and have a one on one debate with him much to the annoyance of some in the audience.

 

A couple of others were wanting to ask client based questions but due to the ethnic origin of most of the audience it was very difficult to understand the questions and I suspect the presenters just answered a question they thought they were being asked.

[claireg]

One of motivators for change is that economic benefits decreasing from migration program as number of applicants from HR countries increases with consequent drops in skill levels and average income earned by migrants decreases.

 

I wonder if from the quote above they will increase the IELTS minimum score for HR countries. They are getting tougher on english skills and it will be another way to reduce apps. I wouldn't put it past them anyway from the way the minister behaves judging on his past performance.

 

I have often thought though that they could just easily introduce IELTS for all applicants, whether you hold a UK passport or not.

 

Claire

[Waitingawhile]

thanks for the info Les -Did they indicate which occupations they were looking at in terms of points allocation and in what sense ie up or down?

[Guest gmac]

"Family sponsored skilled migration is giving poorest employment outcomes."

 

Hi Les,

 

Couldn't wait any longer to ask you this but do they mean best unemployment outcomes?

 

Or do they mean that they have the worst record in holding down a job? ( what's a job? )

 

They are surely benchmarking with State Sponsorship which to me is like saying black is white!

 

More ammo for them to do away with the independent GSM applications altogether I suspect?

 

Cheers Gary

[Les Mighalls]

Gary first.

 

do they mean best unemployment outcomes?

 

What was said was highest unemployment figures and lowest per capita annual incomes.

 

More ammo for them to do away with the independent GSM applications altogether I suspect?

 

If I were a Government planner with no real idea of how the labour market works (bear in mind I've been an employer for over 30 years) the ideal solution is one vacancy, one skilled migrant and that is where I suspect they are thinking of heading bearing in mind the pool system that Peter Speldewinde flagged, although in fairness to Peter he said it was his Minister who had 'asked' him to explore that possibility.

 

In the real world, if I have a job vacancy I want it filled now so I can keep building my business and increase my profit, not in 6 months time at best, by which time I may well have lost several clients because I couldn't service their needs. If you look on seek.com.au or mycareer.com.au you will see that most advertisers are saying applicants must have PR in Australia. At last year's MIA conference Peter S. was saying that overcoming this employer attitude was an educational challenge for government, which imho is pure bovine excreta.

 

There needs to be slightly more people available than jobs, allowing for the fact that, from experience interviewing people all these years, some people are just unemployable. Hence a need for independent GSM.

 

benchmarking with State Sponsorship

 

No, they were comparing all migrants in all categories.

[Les Mighalls]

Hi Rocki,

 

Did they indicate which occupations they were looking at in terms of points allocation and in what sense ie up or down?

 

No. The entire presentation was necessarily light on detail and heavy with generalities as there were two presenters in three hours with a break in the middle.

 

Too many RMAs, though, do seem to want to tackle individual client issues at these presentations which are not the best forums for doing so.

 

I still thought everything worthwhile, though.

 

In spite of me bagging DIAC from time to time I find it most heartening that senior staff such as Peter Speldewinde do go out and present to RMAs. The more DIAC informs RMAs the better RMAs can help their clients, and, I guess, post information on forums such as this. Just for the record, I have a lot of sympathy for individual case officers who must get tired at being lied to more often than a blonde on a Saturday night judging by some of the stories I have come across about fake documentation.

[Les Mighalls]

I have often thought though that they could just easily introduce IELTS for all applicants, whether you hold a UK passport or not.

 

They already have, Claire, to a certain extent, with full English points only available from a successful IELTS test.

 

Having spoken to a lot of students here wanting 485s etc or else still studying, the increase in minimum English levels is well overdue. An IELTS of 5.5 is achievable with not much better than broken English at a day to day conversational level. 6 is not a lot better and is achievable with intensive coaching.

 

The best indicator of employablity is English. Poor English equals a much higher level of unemployment unless the worker can get a job where s/he doesn't really need it such as a Chinese or Indian restaurant for a cook.

[rammygirl]

Business skills applications are currently paused.

 

So not interested in those of us who would like to create employment, economic growth and bring lots of cash into the country (as required to by new regs).

 

Lots of us 163ers waiting for visas, which are temporary anyway with strict criteria for PR to meet once there!!

[Les Mighalls]

So not interested in those of us who would like to create employment, economic growth and bring lots of cash into the country

 

To quote Peter Speldewinde, "The business migration program is not working the way we would like it to".

 

To quote me:

 

From my experience, dealing almost exclusively with business migrants from China both directly and following referral from migration agents in PRC once migrants have obtained their provisional visas; the overwhelming majority of business migrants have little interest in operating a viable growing business "creating employment and economic growth".

 

Almost without exception there is no interest in running a business in Australia beyond the bare minimum required by legislation, and once the PR visa is obtained the business is closed down or on-sold to another 163 holder.

 

The only thing they want is PR; not a business in Australia.

 

As for "lots of cash", it depends on how you define "lots". From some of the numbers I've seen quoted on here 'lots' is a very relative expression and the amount a lot of Poms can bring in is minimal compared to some of the numbers I've seen.

 

Huge amounts of cash are invariably brought in by the clients I deal with. Quite often in excess of 2 million AUD is spent on a house, his and hers Mercs are bought, the kids are put into private schools and the wife dumped here to cope as best she can putting together a business to qualify for PR while the husband goes back to China to run his real business back there with a far less onerous tax regime.

 

At the other end of the scale, I have also been approached by Chinese 163 holders who cause me to seriously wonder how they managed to get the 163 in the first place, they have so little money to invest.

 

Further, I have yet to see an 'approved business plan' implemented in anything like the shape, form or even industry, at times, that it was drafted in or for.

 

Together with the subcontractors working for me, who include financial planners, tax and management accountants, solicitors and a wide range of industry consultants, we have helped put together viable businesses and assisted the wives to run their qualifying business in order to achieve PR, whilst involving the absentee husband in the day to day decison making as much as possible.

 

The whole idea behind the business migration program was to entice business people to Australia in order to create businesses which would create employment and possibly service an export industry exporting back to their home countries or elsewhere.

 

Instead, more often than not, all the Aussie Govt got was a whole bunch of micro-businesses being bought or started such as coffee shops and juice bars in shopping centres together with a lot of convenience stores and even fish and chip shops being run by Chinese.

 

As I've said on other threads on this forum, the problem the Govt has is that its planners are usually politics and economics grads with little or no experience of the real world of business and certainly very little, if any, first hand knowledge of Asian businesspeople.

[rammygirl]

Not much comfort to us Brits who want to make the move using our Business to get the visa. Even though many sell the business used to get the visa they still run other business interests.

 

For example we know it will take longer for our main business to build turnover so will probably buy a second high turnover business to help qualify for the visa in time - and more than likely sell this on later to concentrate on the main business. I know many who use this path.

 

As for the cash just meant the asset requirements to get the visa - I guess they don't check how much you eventually transfer to Oz.

[Les Mighalls]

What I would like to see are the numbers listing passport of origin of business visa holders for the 16x visas.

 

I would also like to see the numbers showing what percentage of 16x holders go on to achieve PR. Anecdotally, a lot don't bother and simply return to PRC at the end of the provisional visa period.

 

The other number I would like to see is what percentage of business skills visa holders are still running a business 5 years after they achieve their PR and what their passport of origin is, then compare the percentages.

[rammygirl]

Might make interesting reading but how could it be used in reality. Not fair to imply all business skills applicants (from wherever in the world) are being underhand in some way. Even if they do stop running a business they are still living in Oz and presumably economically active in some way.

 

Plenty of GSM migrants don't work in their nominated occupation that got them in.

 

Once over 45 and after running your own business for many years - the idea of employee sponsored can be off putting even if it was possible.

[Guest sylcaddies]

Therefore decrease n GSM, increase in ENS/RSMS planned and intend to make it easier fro 457s to progress to PR.

 

Would this apply to people over 45 and on 457 visa, as we are stuck with the restrictions placed on the age exemptions? Many thanks

[Guest stillwaiting79]

Family sponsored skilled migration is giving poorest employment outcomes.

 

 

Hi Les,

 

I know you've answered this to an extent but are they implying the reduction in Family Sponsored GSM visas? Especialiiy whats currently under Cat 6 (ii) ?

 

Cheers,

SW