melbournegirlinny Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Looks like Chris Evans has held his seat :sad: Senate Results - Western Australia - 2010 Federal Election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) The ABC is also saying at the moment that Labor has 70 seats and the Liberal/Coalition has 72 seats. Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Hi Sandra I'm totally baffled. I don't understand any of the stuff on the link you have provided. I found the link by myself, earlier, but I don't know how to read the results. I think it is because in the UK, you vote for Bloggs, Smith or Jones. Either your desired candidate wins the seat or he doesn't. We don't have a complicated system of preferences and I suspect that not understanding how this bit works is the reason why I don't understand the stuff on the link. Did people actually vote for Evans as their first choice or has he won his seat by default? :shocked: Many thanks Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzieland Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Looks like Chris Evans has held his seat :sad: Senate Results - Western Australia - 2010 Federal Election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) The ABC is also saying at the moment that Labor has 70 seats and the Liberal/Coalition has 72 seats. Sandra If the Liberal / Coalition has 72 seats, does this mean they are in the lead ? If they finally do win, could this mean that Chris Evans will not be a part of this Government and therefore have to step down as Immigration Minister ? If this happens, what role will Chris Evans possibly be given, will it be limited only to WA ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Ive heard Chris Evans might get a job at DIAC GIVING VISAS TO ALL THE PEOPLE HE WANTED TO CULL !! Karma wishful thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzieland Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Ive heard Chris Evans might get a job at DIAC GIVING VISAS TO ALL THE PEOPLE HE WANTED TO CULL !! Karma wishful thinking Won't that be his 'dream job'... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Did people actually vote for Evans as their first choice or has he won his seat by default? Gill Evans is a member of the Senate and the voting system for the Senate (our upper house) is different to that for the lower house. Each state is represented by six senators. The vote for the senate candidates is state-wide, so voters all over West Australia have the same selection of candidates to choose from - not just from their local electorate. On the link provided it shows that Chris Evans was the second person elected to the Senate from W.A. (so, simply put, the second most popular of the Senate candidates in W.A.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted August 21, 2010 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 Actually, there used to be 6 senators for each state but now there are 12-and 2 for the NT and ACT bringing the total to 76 senators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Actually, there used to be 6 senators for each state but now there are 12-and 2 for the NT and ACT bringing the total to 76 senators. Sorry, what I meant and didn't express properly is that there are six senate vacancies for each state at this election (post election-late-night caffeine hasn't yet hit brain cells) :biggrin:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 They have a six year term so usually only about half are up for election at each federal election (every 3 years roughly). That is why there were only 6 senators elected from WA at this election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 If the Liberal / Coalition has 72 seats, does this mean they are in the lead ? If they finally do win, could this mean that Chris Evans will not be a part of this Government and therefore have to step down as Immigration Minister ? If this happens, what role will Chris Evans possibly be given, will it be limited only to WA ? Yes. If the Coalition win then Chris Evans will no longer be Immigration Minister. He will be part of the senate so will review laws made by the Coalition and he may be a minister in the ALP Opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi Sandra I'm totally baffled. I don't understand any of the stuff on the link you have provided. I found the link by myself, earlier, but I don't know how to read the results. I think it is because in the UK, you vote for Bloggs, Smith or Jones. Either your desired candidate wins the seat or he doesn't. We don't have a complicated system of preferences and I suspect that not understanding how this bit works is the reason why I don't understand the stuff on the link. Did people actually vote for Evans as their first choice or has he won his seat by default? :shocked: Many thanks Gill Hi Gill, With regards to this link you only need to look at the table on the top to see the 6 who won a seat in the senate from WA. Senate Results - Western Australia - 2010 Federal Election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) But I will try to explain how it works. Wish me luck. This should be read in conjunction with the WA senate voting results on the link above. In the senate election people vote for EVERY candidate. The queensland senate ballot paper had 60 names for example. I numbered them from 1 to 60 in order of preference. Most people could not be bothered doing this so you can also vote "above the line" which means just choosing your favourite candidate party and then accepting the 1 - 60 numbering they have submitted to the electoral commission before the election. When deciding which 6 candidates in WA they: Count 1: - Count the votes of each party (note not person) and work out how many votes you need to win a seat - the quota - so for the WA election the quota was 125257. - In the Senate voting system, the Quota for election is determined by dividing the number of formal votes by one more than the number of vacancies and rounding the resultant figure up. Approx 1/7 of the vote. Count 2: - Decide which party has the most votes - Liberals with 384,402. - Elect the Liberal person who was first on the ticket. ie the first senate candidate chosen by the Liberal Party. So Mathias CORMANN elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Mathias CORMANN from the Liberal Party total - see the Tranfer column. Count 3: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 2 - Labor with 260,917. - Elect the Labor person who was first on the ticket. So Chris EVANS elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Chris EVANS from the Labor Party total - see the Tranfer column. Count 4: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 3 - Liberal with 259,145. - Elect the Liberal person who was second on the ticket. So Chris BACK elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Chris BACK from the Liberal Party total. Count 5: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 4 - Labor with 135,660. - Elect the Labour person who was second on the ticket. So Glenn STERLE elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Glenn STERLE from the Labor Party total. Count 6: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 5 - Liberal with 133,888. - Elect the Liberal person who was third on the ticket. So Judith ADAMS elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Judith ADAMS from the Liberal Party total. Count 7: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 6. The GREENS have the most votes but not over the Quote (125257) so not elected. - ELIMINATE the party with the lowest vote. So Group U Independents eliminated. - Allocate the second preference of that party. So Group U Independents wanted their 287 votes given to Socialist Alliance. Count 8 and so on: - Continue eliminating the party with the lowest vote and allocating their votes to other parties until one party has the required 125257 votes to take the sixth and last senate spot. - This finally happens at count 23 where The Greens candidate Rachel SIEWERT wins the sixth spot. Any corrections appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi Gill, With regards to this link you only need to look at the table on the top to see the 6 who won a seat in the senate from WA. Senate Results - Western Australia - 2010 Federal Election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) But I will try to explain how it works. Wish me luck. This should be read in conjunction with the WA senate voting results on the link above. In the senate election people vote for EVERY candidate. The queensland senate ballot paper had 60 names for example. I numbered them from 1 to 60 in order of preference. Most people could not be bothered doing this so you can also vote "above the line" which means just choosing your favourite candidate party and then accepting the 1 - 60 numbering they have submitted to the electoral commission before the election. When deciding which 6 candidates in WA they: Count 1: - Count the votes of each party (note not person) and work out how many votes you need to win a seat - the quota - so for the WA election the quota was 125257. - In the Senate voting system, the Quota for election is determined by dividing the number of formal votes by one more than the number of vacancies and rounding the resultant figure up. Approx 1/7 of the vote. Count 2: - Decide which party has the most votes - Liberals with 384,402. - Elect the Liberal person who was first on the ticket. ie the first senate candidate chosen by the Liberal Party. So Mathias CORMANN elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Mathias CORMANN from the Liberal Party total - see the Tranfer column. Count 3: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 2 - Labor with 260,917. - Elect the Labor person who was first on the ticket. So Chris EVANS elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Chris EVANS from the Labor Party total - see the Tranfer column. Count 4: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 3 - Liberal with 259,145. - Elect the Liberal person who was second on the ticket. So Chris BACK elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Chris BACK from the Liberal Party total. Count 5: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 4 - Labor with 135,660. - Elect the Labour person who was second on the ticket. So Glenn STERLE elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Glenn STERLE from the Labor Party total. Count 6: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 5 - Liberal with 133,888. - Elect the Liberal person who was third on the ticket. So Judith ADAMS elected. - Remove the 125257 votes used to elect Judith ADAMS from the Liberal Party total. Count 7: - Decide which party has the most votes after Count 6. The GREENS have the most votes but not over the Quote (125257) so not elected. - ELIMINATE the party with the lowest vote. So Group U Independents eliminated. - Allocate the second preference of that party. So Group U Independents wanted their 287 votes given to Socialist Alliance. Count 8 and so on: - Continue eliminating the party with the lowest vote and allocating their votes to other parties until one party has the required 125257 votes to take the sixth and last senate spot. - This finally happens at count 23 where The Greens candidate Rachel SIEWERT wins the sixth spot. Any corrections appreciated Hi fish Thanks very much indeed for explaining the details. No wonder Sandra was able to confirm - easily and quickly - that Evans had held his seat whilst I was still wondering what on earth that complicated chart in the link was about! I noticed that there was a column marked "Quota" but I didn't know what that meant. On the entry for Evans it say -125257 so I wondered whether that was a swing against him or something. Then I saw that they all said -125257 for all the names so I realised it couldn't be a negative swing but I wondered what it was. It was so confusing that I realised I must be missing some vital clues about how to interpret the ruddy chart, so I gave up on trying! It was quicker just to rely on the Aussie Poms in Oz members to tell me who has won what - and a much more reliable method than trying to figure it out by myself! Who on earth decided on such an incredibly complicated voting system for Australia, and when? Did they copy the American system or did the Aussies invent their own system? It seems to me that you can't work out the quotas unless voting is compulsory, so now I also understand why it is compulsory for Aussies to vote. How does it work for the House of Representatives, please? Is that a straightforward "first past the post" for the constituency or do the Reps have a complicated system as well? Is it equally complicated when people have to choose a State government? What happens when the average Aussie isn't interested, doesn't understand the system, doesn't want to understand anything about it but nevertheless he is required to turn up at the polling station? Presumably there is a tried and tested method for making such a mess of the ballot paper that one's "votes" will not be counted? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 How does it work for the House of Representatives, please? Is that a straightforward "first past the post" for the constituency or do the Reps have a complicated system as well? Is it equally complicated when people have to choose a State government? What happens when the average Aussie isn't interested, doesn't understand the system, doesn't want to understand anything about it but nevertheless he is required to turn up at the polling station? Presumably there is a tried and tested method for making such a mess of the ballot paper that one's "votes" will not be counted? Gill The House of Reps has a preferential voting system, not "first past the post". It is explained here Counting the Votes States can determine their own voting system. I think I am correct in saying that each state has a variation of preferential voting. Here in Tasmania we have a version called the Hare-Clark system, which is even more complex! All that compulsory voting decrees is that you turn up to vote. You have your name marked on the register, are handed a voting paper - then what, if anything, you write on that paper is up to you. You could leave it blank...or give vent to your real feelings about the candidates :biggrin: Both would render the voting paper invalid. But at least you don't get fined for not voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi fish Thanks very much indeed for explaining the details. No wonder Sandra was able to confirm - easily and quickly - that Evans had held his seat whilst I was still wondering what on earth that complicated chart in the link was about! I noticed that there was a column marked "Quota" but I didn't know what that meant. On the entry for Evans it say -125257 so I wondered whether that was a swing against him or something. Then I saw that they all said -125257 for all the names so I realised it couldn't be a negative swing but I wondered what it was. It was so confusing that I realised I must be missing some vital clues about how to interpret the ruddy chart, so I gave up on trying! It was quicker just to rely on the Aussie Poms in Oz members to tell me who has won what - and a much more reliable method than trying to figure it out by myself! No worries Who on earth decided on such an incredibly complicated voting system for Australia, and when? Did they copy the American system or did the Aussies invent their own system? I think the conservatives introduced it when two major right of centre parties emerged and they didn't want the conservative vote split in two allowing labor to win easier. Not sure if they invented it though? I'm sure variations would be used the world over. The senate system of each state getting 12 senators is so the smaller states don't get railroaded by the big one's in the house of review. It seems to me that you can't work out the quotas unless voting is compulsory, so now I also understand why it is compulsory for Aussies to vote. I'm not sure about this as the Quota is not just the total votes that should be correctly cast, but the count of the "formal ballot papers" - formal meaning a correct vote as opposed to "informal" where someone has spoiled the ballot paper. Maybe they begin the count, work out the percentage of informal votes coming in and then extrapolate out the numbers to give a "formal vote" total? This allows them to start the process without counting all the votes. How does it work for the House of Representatives, please? Is that a straightforward "first past the post" for the constituency or do the Reps have a complicated system as well? Is it equally complicated when people have to choose a State government? Similar but the ballot paper just has the 5 candidates, for example, and you number them one to five. So everyone decides the preferences themselves rather than being able to leave it to the party like you can by voting "above the line" on the senate ballot. Parties all hand out how to vote cards as you walk in to "help" you vote in the preference order they want you to. Only one person wins the seat. What happens when the average Aussie isn't interested, doesn't understand the system, doesn't want to understand anything about it but nevertheless he is required to turn up at the polling station? Presumably there is a tried and tested method for making such a mess of the ballot paper that one's "votes" will not be counted? Cheers Gill Not an issue really. Despite the complicated counting the actual voting is quite straight forward. If you want to spoil your vote just leave it blank and pop it in the box. Your name is already crossed off so whatever you do to the 2 ballots is up to you. Must be interesting reading some of the ballots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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