Teaching in Queensland - so frustrated!

[NZStidz]

Grrr! I am so frustrated after spending some time researching teaching (primary) in Queensland. I am from the UK but have NZ Citizenship and have lived north of Auckland for 8 years. I am a provisionally registered teacher here in NZ which means I can apply for registration in Qld based on the Trans Tasman recognition programme. No problems so far. We are moving to the Gold Coast in Jan and we have our eye on Pacific Pines, thought it would be a good place for our children who are 12 and 8, with schools and amenities close by. So here in NZ you browse the Teaching Gazette for vacancies and if you see one, in a location you like, you apply... I had visions of being able to teach at one of the primaries locally but here's what I found out. You have to apply to the teaching council and then they place you in a vacancy where THEY want you to teach. This is mind boggling to me as part of the criteria for both the employer and employee should be the "fit" - schools are very different and I fail to see how someone in a office at the teaching council could match up a school and teacher. This is SOOO disappointing to me as I am not prepared to leave my career in the hands of someone else, I would like to apply (as a grown adult) to the job of my choice and then have the decision left with my employer who would know what type of person would fit in their school. Anyway, I am off to scream into my pillow...:arghh:

[Petals]

I understand that you have to do the hard yards in schools they choose before you get to choose in QLD.

 

In Victoria you only get permanent if you do the hard yards too, otherwise its all contract and CRT work.

 

I do not know why people ever thought it was easy to get a job as a teacher here, there are plenty of Aus ones doing CRT trying to get positions. Any nice area of Aus has more than enough teachers in my view.

 

Both my children are teachers, one has a permanent position the other is still trying to get a position and does CRT.

[Quoll]

It has been mentioned on this board any number of times that getting a teaching place (permanently) pretty much anywhere in Australia is not easy - every man and his dog wants the plum positions and so they will place you in hardship places first so you build up points to then be able to pick the plum positions. All the states are the same, you can put your hat in the ring but if you havent done the hard time you wont get a plum. That's the way it is.

[NZStidz]

Hmm, I don't think I ever thought it would be "easy" however as I said, here in NZ at least you get to apply to the schools that you would like to work in so that decision at least is in your hands, of course you then need to get the job...! How do you do the "hard yards" as you say if you can't get a job? As I am in NZ I have seen the vast majority of my cohort get full time permanent jobs in primary schools, I guess I naively thought it would be the same over there. I am not on this site often so haven't read screeds of posts on the subject, was merely venting my frustration. I had thought this site was supposed to be supportive - guess not!

[Quoll]

Hmm, I don't think I ever thought it would be "easy" however as I said, here in NZ at least you get to apply to the schools that you would like to work in so that decision at least is in your hands, of course you then need to get the job...! How do you do the "hard yards" as you say if you can't get a job? As I am in NZ I have seen the vast majority of my cohort get full time permanent jobs in primary schools, I guess I naively thought it would be the same over there. I am not on this site often so haven't read screeds of posts on the subject, was merely venting my frustration. I had thought this site was supposed to be supportive - guess not!

 

No sorry, that's the system. You can apply for a position but they may, in the first instance, offer you something which suits their needs, not necessarily yours - if you dont mind living out at Woop Woop then you will have your foot in the door - there are more positions available in the places that nobody else wants to live in. You may be better trying the non government system. Dont worry, vent away.

[Petals]

Another thing to watch for in Aus is that positions are advertised because the government insists they are, however often these positions are already filled and they are just going through the motions. Even if you get an interview someone else may have the job already.

 

When the contracts end they readvertise the position even though the person who is already there is being kept on.

[Guest asman71]

My advice:

 

I'd think about why it is you wanted to move to Australia in the first place...and then, just for a while, put the energy and time you have undoubtedly spent researching that into looking at New Zealand again...another area / town / city to where you are now.

 

Basically, make sure that what you are after in life doesn't actually exist already where you are, before you consider Australia...because like in any country, if you move there, you will pretty much have to start your career over from square one.

 

I live in the UK, and have fought long and hard against many obstacles (including disability) to carve out the career in teaching that I have...and there's no way I will give up all that and return to the bottom of the pile, especially since I don't believe that Australia has any real edge over the UK, except for the weather!

 

:biggrin:

[Guest jeza]

yes, I am a teacher from NZ too, so i can completely understand where you are coming from. I too was very suprised that I would have to apply to a 'board' rather than an actual school. Def puts a spanner in the works! Pay seems to be much better in some parts of aus than in NZ, but is it is 2 hours away - no thanks!

We are coming over anyway, as moving for oh job. From what I have read on these sites, there is plenty of temp teaching. Hope that helps

 

Jenny

[Guest valleylass]

Hi NZStidz

 

I feel your frustration and it was one of the contributory factors in our return to the UK, I couldn't secure an interview let alone any work and yes it does seem counter intuitive that you are placed where the state needs you rather than because you 'fit' the ethos of the school. I understand that the same type of system runs in France and Germany. Just a thought but the private schools in QLD are manifold and this may offer you a route in. For me it was less than successful but I know of others who have got in that way, it helps too to teach in a shortage area, unfortunately primary teachers aren't in shortage. Good luck, have you got your QCT registration yet as this is pretty crucial?

[Guest jeza]

I thinkl the reason that people think getting a teaching job should be easy, is because it was once listed on the skills needed list. But I think it was mainly secondary. Secondly, if you are experienced in your job, and it is something like teaching, you do tend to think that there will be at least one job for you - so long as you are a little flexible. However, travelling to rural areas, and working in really tough schools miles from where you plan to live makes it very hard - especially if you have a family of your own.

 

I think people on this site do mean to be supportive of you nzstids. Sometimes it is easy to read things the wrong way - we all agree I am sure, that it is gut renching when you are qualified but find you can not do your occupation in the land of your choice.

[Guest ingenschooly]

I'm having a naieve moment reading this lot. I thought I had considered all things possible, realised that the state puts you where they think fit etc. I thought it would be possible to start off by doing "supply" teaching and didn't think there would be too uch difficulty as I am an experienced Head of Department in Secondary (16 yrs.) with overseas experience too. This is really making me think hard. Would they really put you in a school that took more than 1 hour travel time?? Are they really so cavalier about teachers work / life balance??? Surely, when you find a place to live it is best to 'suss' out the areas you can travel to reasonably and only list those on the form that you complete as part of the application to teach in the state???? So, am I now right in thinking that this approach will more than likely render one jobless? I thought they had a shortage of secondary teachers........

 

There are, I am sure problems with every method of selecting teachers. I have tried to consider what the good points of this system may be and it is I admit a bit of a struggle. However, it does mean that the unpopular schools get a chance to enjoy the skills of all types of teachers and challenging schools can be rewarding and good places to learn effective strategies. Perhaps, it's their way of making sure they actually get teachers in those schools at all, as if there really is a shortage then those schools would probably be the places with the worst shortages if teachers could choose freely. Just a thought.

 

Anyway, I would most like to know if I am in dreamland thinking of going to Oz. Should I be clicking the heels of my red shoes instead?:laugh:

[Quoll]

I'm having a naieve moment reading this lot. I thought I had considered all things possible, realised that the state puts you where they think fit etc. I thought it would be possible to start off by doing "supply" teaching and didn't think there would be too uch difficulty as I am an experienced Head of Department in Secondary (16 yrs.) with overseas experience too. This is really making me think hard. Would they really put you in a school that took more than 1 hour travel time?? Are they really so cavalier about teachers work / life balance??? Surely, when you find a place to live it is best to 'suss' out the areas you can travel to reasonably and only list those on the form that you complete as part of the application to teach in the state???? So, am I now right in thinking that this approach will more than likely render one jobless? I thought they had a shortage of secondary teachers........

 

There are, I am sure problems with every method of selecting teachers. I have tried to consider what the good points of this system may be and it is I admit a bit of a struggle. However, it does mean that the unpopular schools get a chance to enjoy the skills of all types of teachers and challenging schools can be rewarding and good places to learn effective strategies. Perhaps, it's their way of making sure they actually get teachers in those schools at all, as if there really is a shortage then those schools would probably be the places with the worst shortages if teachers could choose freely. Just a thought.

 

Anyway, I would most like to know if I am in dreamland thinking of going to Oz. Should I be clicking the heels of my red shoes instead?:laugh:

 

 

No shortage of teachers per se - lots of new young ones who cant get jobs and who move into other occupations because of it - but a shortage in some places, which, as you rightly say would be understaffed if they didnt put people there. They could certainly put you in a school an hour away but if you specified only a few options in a really nice place then chances are you would be jobless. You would probably get casual relief and possibly even short term contracts. Maths/Science is definitely a better prospect than humanities.

 

There may well be a shortage of teachers in about 5 - 10 years. It has been widely predicted that the current cohort will begin retiring in their millions by that time and even though there are plenty of people who trained to be teachers in the last few years, many have not been able to get jobs and have moved on to brighter things so the stock will be low. Or if there is a double dip recession then perhaps some of them will go back into teaching as they tried to do in this downward blip.

 

I dont know of any Ed department who pays more than lip service to "work/life balance". Most of them are just concerned with having enough teacher bums in seats.

[lavender776]

No shortage of teachers per se - lots of new young ones who cant get jobs and who move into other occupations because of it

 

 

Not disputing what you say at all Quoll, but weren't Secondary teachers on the CSL? Is it another example of DIAC not knowing what the real situation is, do you think? (not sure who decided what went on CSL). They're also on new SOL, aren't they?

 

I'm not a Secondary teacher, I'm a college teacher (hoping to come to Canberra actually), but it's interesting to keep an eye on the whole education sector.

[Quoll]

Not disputing what you say at all Quoll, but weren't Secondary teachers on the CSL? Is it another example of DIAC not knowing what the real situation is, do you think? (not sure who decided what went on CSL). They're also on new SOL, aren't they?

 

I'm not a Secondary teacher, I'm a college teacher (hoping to come to Canberra actually), but it's interesting to keep an eye on the whole education sector.

 

DIAC are always behind. There are some specific areas that probably need teachers - secondary maths and science is usually one that has a high demand (because there are other alternatives out there for mathematicians and scientists). There are also vacancies in out of the way places that nobody wants to go to. But there are a lot of young teachers who wont get jobs There are no jobs - The Teachers Are Blowing Their Whistles!

[NZStidz]

My advice:

 

I'd think about why it is you wanted to move to Australia in the first place...and then, just for a while, put the energy and time you have undoubtedly spent researching that into looking at New Zealand again...another area / town / city to where you are now.

 

Basically, make sure that what you are after in life doesn't actually exist already where you are, before you consider Australia...because like in any country, if you move there, you will pretty much have to start your career over from square one.

 

I live in the UK, and have fought long and hard against many obstacles (including disability) to carve out the career in teaching that I have...and there's no way I will give up all that and return to the bottom of the pile, especially since I don't believe that Australia has any real edge over the UK, except for the weather!

 

:biggrin:

 

I have spent 8 years now in NZ and the life I want DEFINITELY doesn't exist here. It's not about lifestyle, it's about the people and the country and I for one cannot wait to get out. I lived in Australia for a year before I had children and am happy and confident that it will be a huge improvement on NZ. I don't mind doing something else as a career, I am 39 so it's not as though I would be returning to the bottom of the pile - I'm newly qualified and therefore am still there! ... I just find the recruiting method frustrating.

 

The thought of moving anywhere else in NZ makes me want to weep!:wacko:

[NZStidz]

Will get QCT rego as soon as we get over there and have an address :-)

[Guest valleylass]

Re: QCT registration

 

Hi NZStidz

 

I don't mean to sound like a doom merchant but this took waaay longer to get than it should have done as they seem to work at snail's pace or are hugely understaffed. You will not be able to teach in any QLD school without it so if you need to hit the ground running once you are there I would strongly advise you get your registration ASAP. Is there an address you can use, I'm sure they will accept your NZ address as they have my UK one. Good luck

 

Re: Job situation

 

I too am a very experienced secondary teacher with leadership responsibilities. Could not get a look in I'm afraid however I don't teach Science, Maths or DT (practical arts) and were I to be able to this would have made a difference I think. As Quoll says yes DIAC pushed it up the list and this is why we got our visa, I could not find work doing what I love though : ( I also failed to understand how the state of QLD can push up standards when schools have to take staff rather than actively want to employ them. As I said earlier try to private schools as they have something approaching autonomy.

[Guest ingenschooly]

I have spent 8 years now in NZ and the life I want DEFINITELY doesn't exist here. It's not about lifestyle, it's about the people and the country and I for one cannot wait to get out. I lived in Australia for a year before I had children and am happy and confident that it will be a huge improvement on NZ. I don't mind doing something else as a career, I am 39 so it's not as though I would be returning to the bottom of the pile - I'm newly qualified and therefore am still there! ... I just find the recruiting method frustrating.

 

The thought of moving anywhere else in NZ makes me want to weep!:wacko:

 

Really. Could you give me a quick list please?

Big thanks.

[NZStidz]

There are many many things and I don't want to be attacked on this forum as I am sure there will be many who don't agree with me, however I think the main factor is the vast disparity between wages here and the cost of living. We are constantly made aware of being a tiny island with only 4 million people, simply due to the cost of everything. The other thing is that, as a nation, the NZers do not seem to want to progress in any way - so things will just get worse, not better. They seem content with a very low standard of living, in uninsulated, unheated homes that would be considered a caravan in the UK. I know Kiwis who boast about how low their electrical bill is because they refuse to heat their house - many homes have mould and damp problems. Opportunities for teenagers/graduates here are few and far between and in my opinion only exist in multi-national companies, of which there are few. Public transport is all but non-existent outside of the city centre (Auckland) and although it is a beautiful country, views do not pay the bills. It has been a great place to bring up my boys whilst they were very young but now they are 12 and 8 I want to move somewhere with more opportunities for them. I have met lots of lovely people however the majority have not been Kiwis, I have found it difficult to get on with many of the NZers I have met. There is an arrogance that extends to their driving and even the way they walk around... I could go on but I don't think it is very productive. Unless you can buy a house outright I wouldn't even consider moving here, and even then, make sure that your salary will cover food and utilities with plenty left over.

[Petals]

There are many many things and I don't want to be attacked on this forum as I am sure there will be many who don't agree with me, however I think the main factor is the vast disparity between wages here and the cost of living. We are constantly made aware of being a tiny island with only 4 million people, simply due to the cost of everything. The other thing is that, as a nation, the NZers do not seem to want to progress in any way - so things will just get worse, not better. They seem content with a very low standard of living, in uninsulated, unheated homes that would be considered a caravan in the UK. I know Kiwis who boast about how low their electrical bill is because they refuse to heat their house - many homes have mould and damp problems. Opportunities for teenagers/graduates here are few and far between and in my opinion only exist in multi-national companies, of which there are few. Public transport is all but non-existent outside of the city centre (Auckland) and although it is a beautiful country, views do not pay the bills. It has been a great place to bring up my boys whilst they were very young but now they are 12 and 8 I want to move somewhere with more opportunities for them. I have met lots of lovely people however the majority have not been Kiwis, I have found it difficult to get on with many of the NZers I have met. There is an arrogance that extends to their driving and even the way they walk around... I could go on but I don't think it is very productive. Unless you can buy a house outright I wouldn't even consider moving here, and even then, make sure that your salary will cover food and utilities with plenty left over.

 

I agree lived there for 8 years a long time ago however I do have a lot of Kiwi friends and two of them live over here in Aus and have done for a long long time. People are one of the biggest exports.

 

We have family over there and they have done fine and but its not the same for everyone.

[Guest ingenschooly]

Re: QCT registration

 

Hi NZStidz

 

I don't mean to sound like a doom merchant but this took waaay longer to get than it should have done as they seem to work at snail's pace or are hugely understaffed. You will not be able to teach in any QLD school without it so if you need to hit the ground running once you are there I would strongly advise you get your registration ASAP. Is there an address you can use, I'm sure they will accept your NZ address as they have my UK one. Good luck

 

Re: Job situation

 

I too am a very experienced secondary teacher with leadership responsibilities. Could not get a look in I'm afraid however I don't teach Science, Maths or DT (practical arts) and were I to be able to this would have made a difference I think. As Quoll says yes DIAC pushed it up the list and this is why we got our visa, I could not find work doing what I love though : ( I also failed to understand how the state of QLD can push up standards when schools have to take staff rather than actively want to employ them. As I said earlier try to private schools as they have something approaching autonomy.

 

I am wondering if you could tell us how long you were looking for a teaching job before you gave up? What were your experiences? Did you only get offers in awful places or did you define a small area?

It's really helpful to know how others have fared.

[Guest valleylass]

Hi Ingenschooly

 

Yes happy to tell you, in total it was about 5 months, unfortunately with the summer hols included BUT there were still schools advertising jobs right up and through the hols. Undoubtedly my subject and timing did not help but I did have some lengthy discussions with a EQ representative, numerous experienced teachers and ex-pats who highlighted some of the pitfalls of the QLD system. The job situation was not the only reason for our return but it was a pretty major one; the insecurity of temporary teaching work with very little prospect of a permanent contract along with my husbands freelance career and the falling pound against the Oz dollar put us in quite a precarious position. I didn't necessarily give up I just secured an interview in the UK before Oz and we decided that we would have to cut our losses, my husband decided to retrain too and this would have been much more difficult to do in Australia.

I do know of people who have secured teaching jobs with relative ease upon entry to QLD however this was more than 5 years ago. I must hasten to add they were teaching shortage subjects. I applied for jobs in state schools, both pastoral and subject based, in private schools, both pastoral and subject based and also within EQ itself. I got one reply 6 months after making the job application to tell me I was unsuccessful and an offer of a short contract about two months after I returned to the UK.

In my opinion English state schools are far more adept at identifying and appointing appropriate staff because they are allowed to, this means Heads can prioritise the improvement of teaching and learning. There are plenty of great teachers in Queensland, it's the system that is slow moving.