Parent Visa waiting times

[Guest Cam_Russ]

Well it's been a while since my last post, but happy to report that things are working out very well since the move (back) to Oz..

 

2 years on and it seems like I never left, and my partner has forgotten what England is like (not really!!)

 

This weekend the in-laws arrived from England for their first trip to Australia.... Well despite delayed flights, rerouted itineraries and lost baggage they're settling in nicely for their holiday..

 

My partner and I got to thinking this afternoon, is it possible for us to sponsor them to come out here. My short amount of research on the immi.gov.au website certainly indicates that this is possible. However, here's the thing. For a Non-contributory Parent visa, it says the wait is approximately 10 years!!!! Are they serious?? Contributory is stated as being around 18 months.. but then costs are $35,000 per person...... Whoa mama... that's ALOT of money....

 

Have i got this right, or am i missing something. Anyone with any experience, your comments, feedback, and information would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Cheers

Cam

[Guest cazbeckham]

Hi Cam

 

No they are right with the waiting list for non contributory parent visas hence we paid the whack and came out here 14 months ago.

 

At least with a Contributory parent visa you are a Permanent Resident from day one and also have Medicare facility. We would never have come out or applied even for a non cont visa as it means you whole life is on hold for 10-15 years or more, too old to wait that long.

 

Gill (Gollywobbler) would be able to give you loads of info on here and I am sure she will pick up on this thread for you very soon.

 

All the best

[Guest Cam_Russ]

Thanks for the info Caz.

 

Much appreciated. So is it really $35,000 per parent??

 

Cheers

Cam

[Les Mighalls]

So is it really $35,000 per parent??

 

Yes, for a Contributory Parent Visa which enables the applicant(s) to jump the queue.

 

Even then the applicant(s) is/are getting a very good deal. The cost to the Aussie taxpayer (and bear in mind the applicant and partner will have paid no taxes in Australia) per parent visa holder to look after them as they age, on average, is approximately AUD300,000 based on figures provided by DIAC at the MIA conference a few weeks back.

 

For a basic, non-contributory parent visa the wait is approximately eight years from queue date (which is not the date you lodge the application, btw)

[Guest cazbeckham]

I agree with Les and the answer is YES

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Yes, for a Contributory Parent Visa which enables the applicant(s) to jump the queue.

 

Even then the applicant(s) is/are getting a very good deal. The cost to the Aussie taxpayer (and bear in mind the applicant and partner will have paid no taxes in Australia) per parent visa holder to look after them as they age, on average, is approximately AUD300,000 based on figures provided by DIAC at the MIA conference a few weeks back.

 

For a basic, non-contributory parent visa the wait is approximately eight years from queue date (which is not the date you lodge the application, btw)

 

Hi Les

 

Mmmmm. My mother has a Contributory Parent sc143 visa. She is a widow so we only had to pay the solo parent amounts, which does make it much easier, I feel. Also Mum has now been in Oz on her CPV 143 for a little over 3 years, so we have done the bit with getting her a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card and we got her a Western Australia Seniors Card as soon as we heard about those:

 

Commonwealth Seniors Health Card

 

Welcome to Seniors Card

 

We are lucky - and believe me I do mean lucky. We were able to afford the visa without losing sleep and without any compromises to Mum's quality of life.

 

With respect, I think that sitting on the sidelines explaining the nuts and bolts of the visa alone makes it easy to ignore the fact that the family will have to live with the practicalities of this visa for a decade after its grant.

 

I have received beseeching PMs from the children of CPV holders. Essentially, these families leapt into the CPV scheme when it was new, un-tested and even now the visa has only been in existence since July 2003 so I don't think it is yet possible to do a proper cost/benefit analysis of it from the visa holder's point of view, regardless of the Government's point of view. The Parents of the children who have PMd me are in Australia and they are in financial strife. Effectively they are trapped. They have burned all their financial bridges at home, the cost of living in Australia has soared, medical/drugs expenses are becoming a problem, their UK State Pensions have been frozen and so forth.

 

The original Report by the Australian Government Actuary, prior to the introduction of the Contributory Parent Scheme, is here:

 

Publications — Australian Government Actuary

 

The original idea was that the Contributory Parent would contribute 12.5% of the estimated costs involved. Even the AGA complained - in the original Report - that the basis of the AGA's analysis was inherently flawed by reason of considering cost alone and assuming that the scheme would have no possible benefits for Australians other than sentimental benefits alone for the Aussies who happen to be close rellies of the Contributory Parents concerned.

 

Krudd & Co chucked the CPV Scheme out of Parliament at least twice when they were the Loyal Opposition. Howard had a heck of a fight to get it onto the statute book at all. Now that they are the Government, they are singing from the same hymn-sheet as Howard, it seems:

 

Commonwealth Expenditure Associated with the Contributory Parent Visa — Australian Government Actuary

 

David Bitel was right in the first place, in my view. It is an iniquitous scheme:

 

http://www.parishpatience.com.au/parent.pdf

 

When the thing was new it was at least "fast track." CPVs were processed in 3-4 months. Mum's visa took 9 months from start to finish in 2005/06. They now take 20 - 24 months on average. Since when has two years been "fast track"?

 

We paid about $1,305 roughly for the first VAC and then the big chunk was $27,850 for Mum. Which is vastly better than $34,300 per C/Parent now.

 

God knows whether any of the money actually went to the Government of Western Australia - David Bitel says that the money simply goes into the Commonwealth Coffers and that none of it is earmarked and protected for its intended purpose. C/Parents are buying DIAC's new £24 million computer upgrade for them according to the 2008/9 DIAC report. Jeez. They could buy computers for all the schools in the UK for that, couldn't they?

 

I think that the scheme is a deeply flawed racket, bluntly. It is OK to buy into a racket if you do so with your eyes wide open. I made the entirely cynical decision to buy into the racket because doing so was and remains expedient for us.

 

I don't think it is a good visa. It causes socio-economic divisions in a so-called non-discriminatory regime. It is too easy to rush Parents into buying it (and not commercially convenient for a migration agent to warn against a visa that the Parents concerned might not be able to afford in the long term.) There is a "honeymoon period" with it, during which the Parent is no longer excluded from Australia. Give it time to bite properly and I know and know of CPV holders who are thinking of writing off their Australian losses and returning to the UK.

 

In my view, if Australia wants the young, skilled, foreign migrant then the cost of that is his or her Parents as well. I think Krudd's Government is trying to cherry pick with the Immigration programme and that this is one area of it where they should be called to account for their eagerness to do so.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Les Mighalls]

Hi Gill,

 

I agree with you to a very large extent. In fact there is absolutely no argument that the UK government treats UK pensioners abominably when they move to Australia. Having paid exorbitant taxes all their lives if they decide to see out their remaining years in Australia the UK government's attitude has always been, "Thank God for that" and freezes their pension.

 

The Aussie government's attitude is indeed one of cherrypicking. At the risk of making myself unpopular I can understand them saying we want young skilled migrants, but on the following conditions... (one of which is that parents are treated as a separate issue). It is their country, after all.

 

One can debate how the system ought to be but in the end one has to accept that they set the rules and have a sovereign right to decide who comes to Australia and on what basis (and I won't even go into the issues of 'refugees' arriving in boats off the WA coast).

 

I left the UK many years ago and although I am a regular visitor would not know what it is like to live there now although my elderly relatives seem content enough.

 

I suspect some people leap into migrating to Australia without really thinking through all the implications. I have had 457 holders spend AUD90,000 over two years in addition to their salary supporting themselves once they find they are paying full school fees out of their own pocket because they are on temporary visas. Then there are what, for want of a better term, I call ping pong Poms who bounce back and forth not being able to make up their mind about which country to live in.

 

Like any system which attempts to regulate for the human condition the migration program has become an unholy, convoluted, complicated mess and the Aussie government has only this year realised it has effectively lost control of its skilled migration program hence all the policy making on the fly.

 

Cheers,

 

Les

[Guest cazbeckham]

Hi Gill

 

I agree the cost of living here has soared since our first visit in 2000 and now the exchange rate is crap we are taking a loss of nearly $600 a month on our pension compared to last year. It's a good job we do not have a mortgage but we now have to think twice about what we buy.

 

When we arrived here we had OH pension fixed for a year at a rate that was OK but since that year ended in November we have had to set another up and although we have only done it for 6 months so far the loss is great.

 

We still have money in UK but will make a hefty loss on it at the present exchange rate.

 

But I would not swap my life here to go back to the UK if you paid me. I am very happy and love every day.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Caz

 

I do know what you mean about quality of life. Now that Mum has got used to being a Permanent Resident of Oz, she loves her life out there. She was pretty unsettled for the first year or so because she had become so used to having to divide her time between the UK and Oz that she didn't find it easy to adjust to anything else. Now that she has adjusted to not having to keep repeating a journey that was becoming too much for her physically, she has thrown herself into her life in Australia and is very content.

 

I'm not as stroppy about the CPV scheme as I sound! I just dislike the Aussie Government treating foreign parents as cash cows and I dislike the attitude of treating them solely as "a cost." The idea is so primitive that it contains more holes than a colander. The Australian Government likes to believe that it is enlightened and civilised - in its dreams if you ask me!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Cam, Hi Russ, Hi Russ's Parents

 

Welcome back to Poms in Oz, Cam.

 

For a couple, the CPV scheme has now become naffing expensive. The costs of an application for two CPV 143s during the current program year would be as follows:

 

$1,705 - the upfront payment to cover the cost of processing the application. This covers both Parents and s payable when the application is lodged.

 

$34,330 per Parent is the contribution to future health care costs which gives the visa its name. This is not payable until just before the visas are granted.

 

$14,000 for the Bond, which has to be put into place before a CPV 143 can be granted, as part of the arrangements for the mandatory Assurance of Support:

 

Assurance of Support

 

9.4 Assurance of Support Scheme

 

Add the cost of the visa meds and the flights to Australia. You are looking at $90,000 AUD of anyone's money, I reckon.

 

The idea that C/Parents are but a short hobble from the ferociously expensive old folks home is fiction. They have to be healthy in order to get the ruddy visas! The Government has been up to some creative accounting, I reckon.

 

On the plus side, if the Parents are 60 or over and retired, they can get Seniors Cards straightaway:

 

Welcome to Seniors Card

 

The specific perks offered by Seniors Card depends on the State concerned but most people do swear by Seniors Cards.

 

After the initial 2 year new residents' exclusion period, most CPV holders who are old enough can then trot along to Centrelink and get Commonwealth Seniors Health Cards as well:

 

Commonwealth Seniors Health Card

 

For us, the big benefit from this card is that my mother is 89 and positively rattles with pills for a variety of non-serious but itrritating chronic ailments, mainly associated with her great age. She was taking 13 different drugs a day when I sat down and listed them all for her meds form for the Panel Doctor. I believe that two more pills have been added by her GP in Oz. Instead of paying $31-odd per drug each time Mum got a new prescription in Oz, she now only has to pay $5 per drug, which is a significant saving.

 

Mum lives with my sister and family in Perth and she has never had a driving licence so she gets no benefits from the other concessions provided by the CSH Card. For another Parent this would work the other way around.

 

The health and ancillary care for the elderly in Oz is a million times better than in the UK. Mum is disabled and largely wheelchair dependent. My sister summoned social services not long ago to see about building a shallow ramp to enable Mum to get out of the house by herself. A very nice lady went to see Mum, designed the ramp and arranged for it to be built. She also noticed that Mum's wheelchair was not custom made, was too big for Mum and was not comfortable to sit in all day long. She measured Mum up and a very comfortable, ultra light weight made to measure wheelchair has now been supplied. Mum did not have to contribute a cent to any of this. Mum refuses to contemplate an electric buggy or wheelchair - she would probably be a dangerous menace in charge of one - but in some ways I wish we could persuade her because social services would be willing to arrange proper tuition etc.

 

Mum's GP bulk bills for children and the elderly so she does not have to pay anything to see him.

 

Being housebound without family assistance is boring but Contributory Parents are allowed to work in Australia. My sister fixed Mum up with a tax number etc and Mum now has two part time jobs, which is not bad at 89! One of them is tying the flies for fishing tackle and my sister then does something with wire to finish making the lure. The other is folding leaflets for junk mail which Mum's grandsons then deliver on their bikes. Both jobs only pay pin money but they keep Mum busy and help her to feel that she is making a contribution to her life in Australia, which is important, we feel. Mum and the boys are in a business partnership with the junk mail because it is important for the boys to get the idea that if you want money you have to be willing to work in return for it. I shouldn't think the jobs pay enough to match personal tax allowances for income tax but that isn't the purpose of them anyway. Mum spends her share at the hairdresser and suchlike (where she gets a discount via her Seniors Card.)

 

I've examined the benefits which would affect Mum's Assurance of Support. To be fair to the Govt, once they have taken the money for a CPV they do not try to recover a dime of anything they then spend on helping Mum in any way which is remotely health-related, apart from the price of prescriptions which are now very manageable.

 

I do think that Oz offers a better standard of living than the UK does for the elderly, simply because the climate is better so it is easier for them to be outdoors and active. There are Seniors Clubs everywhere and the Red Hat Society - also everywhere - is very popular with ladies. Lawn bowls looks quaint to me but the bending, stretching and walking about is excellent for the old dears who play it.

 

Retirement villages in Oz strike me as being far better than the sheltered housing complexes in the UK. Some of the villages have a communal swimming pool and BBQ area and the ones on the coast attract people who like fishing, sailing etc. I think there is much more of a sense of community in them than in the rabbit hutches here in the UK. Some of them are also the HQ of the local Seniors Clubs.

 

If your in-laws decide to opt for CPVs, my advice is to go straight for the CPV 143 so that you do not have to stuff around with it all twice. One load of form filling and photocopying is enough for us all!

 

If they opt for CPVs, they can spend much of the waiting period for them in Oz if they wish:

 

Tourist Visa (Subclass 676)

 

DIAC in London are very helpful when British parents have applied for CPVs and then decide to join their children in Oz sooner rather than later.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[jimbob007]

Thank you very much for all the info,

[Nemesis]

Thank you very much for all the info,

This thread is from 2009. The info in it may no longer be accurate.