Oz or UK ?

[bunbury61]

Have not been on the forum for a while. Just reading some of the posts of people planning to return.

Just to fill you in ,we lived in Oz from 89-94 , loved it ,and we done very well .

We came home for family reasons, not home sickness as such

So i feel i can give a fairly balanced view .......as i could live in either place.

As you are aware , the UK is right in the middle of a recession,everyone still moans, the country is over populated, the weather is crap,the politicians are dodgy ........BUT if you can put up with all that,its the BEST country in the world ,by miles.

I happened to be driving through rural Warwickshire the other day , green fields ,sun shining ( a rarity i know ),and it hit me ,what a lucky boy i was.

As a family we have travelled quite a bit, Europe , the US etc , but all the countries in question dont come up to scratch , when measured against the UK.

My father in law buggered off to Ireland ,stating "thats it iam off".

Well suprise,suprise hes coming back.

I have always said ,if you live in the right area of the UK,and youve got a few quid in your pocket ,you are quids in .

[Guest Swing low sweet chariot]

YES! YES! YES!

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Guest pegasus 90]

Thanks Bunbury61, We have been in Oz since 2000 & wife is desperate to go back home. Initially, the thought of returning filled me with dread; not because I hated UK (in fact we had a good life there), but it interesting to hear from someone who has spent decent amounts of time in both countries. It seems sometimes that when people return to UK after a while there is no need to use PIO (perhaps they are living more exciting lives!!).

it's good to know that it can work for some people.

[Guest kdal]

Understand what you are saying , we lived in a lovely part of the UK and all was good, we just felt we needed a change so the process of moving to Australia commenced. So far so good we do not regret our decision, but who knows what the future holds:v_SPIN:

[Guest Three Lions]

Have not been on the forum for a while. Just reading some of the posts of people planning to return.

Just to fill you in ,we lived in Oz from 89-94 , loved it ,and we done very well .

We came home for family reasons, not home sickness as such

So i feel i can give a fairly balanced view .......as i could live in either place.

As you are aware , the UK is right in the middle of a recession,everyone still moans, the country is over populated, the weather is crap,the politicians are dodgy ........BUT if you can put up with all that,its the BEST country in the world ,by miles.

I happened to be driving through rural Warwickshire the other day , green fields ,sun shining ( a rarity i know ),and it hit me ,what a lucky boy i was.

As a family we have travelled quite a bit, Europe , the US etc , but all the countries in question dont come up to scratch , when measured against the UK.

My father in law buggered off to Ireland ,stating "thats it iam off".

Well suprise,suprise hes coming back.

I have always said ,if you live in the right area of the UK,and youve got a few quid in your pocket ,you are quids in .

 

I've often thought that the 'best' aspects of the UK (obviously that's a slightly subjective term, hence the inverted commas) are better than anything in Australia, but the 'worst' aspects of the UK are worse than those of Australia.

 

I would definitely agree with your assessment that if you are in a good area of the UK and are not struggling financially, you can have it pretty good, because the UK has so very much on offer, and so very much nearby. Australia, in my very humble opinion obviously, has less on offer overall and is much further away from everywhere else.

 

I said to someone once (and got shot down in flames for it, unfairly) that I reckon you've got a greater chance of loving Australia if you come from one of the less likeable areas of the UK than if you come from a gorgeous place like York or a lovely little fishing village in Devon. I KNOW that is a generalisation but just for all those who like to attack people defending the UK, a generalisation isn't necessarily inaccurate.

[Guest Three Lions]

 

You need to be rich to live life in the UK; in an area that can offer safety and relative seclusion from nasty elements.

 

Only my opinion but if you've lived in the poorest part of society in a country as small as the UK, with a population so large, you see first hand how pointless moving 10 miles away to a new mock tudor development really is. You have to meet up with undesirable elements sometime.

 

I don't agree that you need to be rich to live in the UK and achieve ''seclusion from nasty elements''. I have friends living all over the UK, and none of them are particularly rich. None of them are homeless/bankrupt and they all seem to have pretty nice lives and do the things they enjoy doing (everything from walking and camping to surfing and tinkering with steam trains!) without major issue...no different from the people I know in Australia.

 

I actually have friends in both countries, and I have actually lived in both countries. It really is not significantly easier to live a good life in either place. Australia does not automatically mean that you have more time, more money and safer children. That is mostly in people's minds and the perception the general public has as a result of common media portrayal.

 

Obviously if an outdoors lifestyle is of huge importance to you, Australia may well offer more (but only in certain areas of Australia, not all of it) but there are other pastimes and activities that the UK excels at over Australia. As I say, I've lived in both nations on a comparable income. If the Godzoners are to be believed, I'd be living vastly more comfortably in Aus than I could in the UK, but the reality is that I am not.

[bunbury61]

Thanks Bunbury61, We have been in Oz since 2000 & wife is desperate to go back home. Initially, the thought of returning filled me with dread; not because I hated UK (in fact we had a good life there), but it interesting to hear from someone who has spent decent amounts of time in both countries. It seems sometimes that when people return to UK after a while there is no need to use PIO (perhaps they are living more exciting lives!!).

it's good to know that it can work for some people.

 

I can only speak for myself . When we arrived in Oz in 89 , we achieved more in 5 years,than we could have in 30 years in the UK, but i hear prices have now caught up in Oz.

I have no axe to grind , i loved Western Australia, and may go back one day. But i still hold to the feeling ,if you live in ,lets say North Devon or York ,and thousands of other pockets throughout the UK, and you have a good job - stay where you are.

We go to Croyde Bay in North Devon at least once a year, and its gods country.

Surf beaches ( nowhere near as good as oz ,but surfing goes on ), the beaches are sandy,the fields are green,and the village itself is " chocolate box ", what more could you want.

Theres a recession here, and an undercurrent of discontent with politicians, there is large scale redundancies,and murders on the news every night.

But i can walk up to the best pub in the area,which is only 300 yards from my house, and its busy every night, rammed full on a weekend, and people just get on with it

[bunbury61]

By the way , just balancing the viewpoint up,in case you think there is an element of Pommie bias.

I have to sit on the M6,or M42 or M1 ,in traffic jams,in the rain, and when iam sat there ,i would rather be anywhere else.

Wet,miserable with the skyline of Brum,or Sheffield in the distance.........not good.

The very reason most of you lot left

To balance that, i remember whilst in Bunbury, going to work in the sticks ( the bush )........and that was something completely foreign to me , i wont say anymore,in case i offend someone.

I never said anything to my Aussie mates, but it wasnt for me.

[Guest June Pixie]

I still do really think you need to be well off to have a decent standard of living in the UK. It’s not a war torn country, we have running water and a roof over our heads and for that alone I’m eternally thankful. I don’t want to be financially better off but to be honest I couldn’t be any worse off. I have actually just started to realise over the past few years that I am ashamed of the UK, embarrassed when my OH’s relatives come to visit, trying to show them all the picture postcard villages (where not in a million years we could afford to live) to offset the fact that to get there you have to pass a whole load scummy places. At one time I would defend everything about the UK and was proud but it’s only since I have had to be tourist guide for relatives from Europe that I’ve realised what a rose tinted view I’ve had. Since we started to go to Europe more, especially Germany I was actually embarrassed that I could even imagine where I came from would ever be anywhere they would consider going on holiday to. Germany is so clean and child friendly with parks and green areas, even in town centres! In Newcastle and other cities across UK you are lucky to find a decent park within 10 miles of a city.

 

Even if by some miracle I did win the lottery I would not consider to live elsewhere in the UK. The class system still is in existence, you can try to work your way up and better yourself but it’s so uneven and cliquey – I managed to fund my daughter to go to a better school where she got so depressed I eventually took her out. Bullying in schools happens everywhere but I didn’t want her to feel inferior because of my lack of money. The rich are rich and are smug in their knowledge of that fact – I’m not jealous nor would I ever want to live their lives, which I presume they worked hard for. I actually feel sorry for them as for all their sweat, toll and taxes they get a thatched cottage on a plot of green land in an overcrowded, destructive and dirty country elsewhere. I’ve always thought that would be great – it would, just not in the UK. I now know there are better countries to live in, not necessarily Australia, where people actually live a life and not just survive it. This applies not so much financially but emotionally. No wonder us Brits long for a bit of sun, sometimes it’s all that can keep you going – seeing a lovely field with hay bales, dappled with yellow sunshine is really nice. I often think, hey this isn’t so bad! What have I got to be disillusioned with? This thinking is always after a glimpse of nature, sun and even a nice friendly stranger sometimes surprises you and fills you with hope for living in the UK, unfortunately I don’t want to always have to search for these moments as I’m finding I have to do each passing day in the UK.

 

Not to go into my boring life but there are too many instances were I have witnessed danger, violence, disorder, crime and been personally affected. I’ve took it all and more but there gets to a point where enough is enough and I’ve realised I need to get out of here to show my kids that, yeah the UK is fine when you find the money to hide away, but more importantly there are other cultures out there and more space and freedom than this overcrowded island.

[Guest ElizaBee]

Hi June Pixie,

have read your posts and you sound so fed up. Hope that you find what you are looking for, either in the UK or here in Australia.

Have been here in Oz nearly 12 years and there is certailnly good and bad here. We have been lucky ( well have worked hard) and had a good life here. Homesickness has hit us all with a vengence though and we are considering moving back.

Must say your posts are making me think a little more. Thank you for that.

Am thinking of what is best for the kids, but they really want to move back to England, but of course they dont remember much about it.

If i can help you at all with any info etc, please let me know.

[Wishful]

It all sounded so promising until this bit -

 

 

 

You need to be rich to live life in the UK; in an area that can offer safety and relative seclusion from nasty elements.

 

Only my opinion but if you've lived in the poorest part of society in a country as small as the UK, with a population so large, you see first hand how pointless moving 10 miles away to a new mock tudor development really is. You have to meet up with undesirable elements sometime.

 

I lived in a very working class area of leeds for the first 18 years of my life and though there were unsavoury elements I loved it , I lived in Liverpool here in Aus for 10 years until I moved and give me leeds anyday !!!!:rolleyes:

[Guest LondonGal]

I lived in a very working class area of leeds for the first 18 years of my life and though there were unsavoury elements I loved it , I lived in Liverpool here in Aus for 10 years until I moved and give me leeds anyday !!!!:rolleyes:

 

I know what you mean Wishful, I grew up in Inner East London. Some parts of it were awful but it had more soul and character in one street than this whole city has put together. Give me London anyday!!!:yes:

[Guest Three Lions]

I lived in a very working class area of leeds for the first 18 years of my life and though there were unsavoury elements I loved it , I lived in Liverpool here in Aus for 10 years until I moved and give me leeds anyday !!!!:rolleyes:

 

This is true - a great number of my university educated friends live in what some may term ''working class areas'' of the UK, and they all seem perfectly happy and never complain of having to avoid ''unsavoury elements''.

 

I'm so curious as to where and when in history this idea developed that thugs only operate in the UK. Seriously, where did this notion come from? As I've said before, I live in what is certainly NOT considered a bad area of Australia, in fact many consider it quite afluent, yet just over a year ago I looked out my window and saw police breaking up what looked to be quite an unpleasant fight. My brother-in-law was mugged at knife point barely twenty minutes from here.

 

This has become so distorted over the years; so many of us Brits are now totally convinced that the UK is vastly more dangerous than any other country in the world. Perhaps they should hear the late Bill Hicks routine where he amusingly compared UK crime to US crime.

 

I really do think many Brits are absolutely resolved to believe it's ''only in the UK''. Why?? Well, this way they get to believe that there is an escape from all the things in life they don't like - because these things are ''only in the UK''. If people start to bag Australia on websites like this, it threatens their ability to think that it is ''only in the UK''.

 

This is going to be controversial, but I'll say what I like; I think some people (not everyone by any means, but some) think that they have done something pretty damn clever in moving to Australia, and are quite pleased with themselves about the whole venture. These people are not going to be all that interested in hearing someone say ''well, I think Australia is a total pile of s***". In fact, more than likely, they are going to try to ensure that such people do not even get a platform on which to say it. I'm pretty sure that this does happen at times.

[Guest Three Lions]

I sometimes think that there are way too many Brits who listen to the ideas of the Daily Mail, even those who don't actually read that newspaper seem to absorb the propaganda put out there by the Mail and all the other similar ''Britain's gone to the dogs!!'' publications. They are determined to have us all believe that everything was perfect in the 1950's before immigration, The Beatles and New Labour had the chance to ''ruin'' everything. And, worryingly, we all fall for it, don't we? Australia has more to offer in some areas, but less to offer in others. It's as simple as that. This whole ''well, basically mate, Australia is paradise and the UK is a total dump'' thinking is total nonsense dreamt up by people who either have some kind of an agenda or who simply do not know what they are talking about.

[Guest Three Lions]

We all I can say is I’m only going from my own personal experiences regarding the areas I have lived in – Not from anything the Daily Mail or Sun have to say, I don’t even read those papers and have all but stopped watching the local news on TV.

 

The first 13 years of my life seemed ok(ish) living in central Newcastle – My parents owned a shop there. I do remember witnessing lots of 80’s football hooligan elements but that has all disappeared now. From 13 onwards we moved to a council estate 10 miles outside Newcastle (just near Hadrian's Wall) which at first was ok then gradually got rougher – From that estate, 2 class mates are in prison – One for GBH & assault and the other for drug offences. It took 15 years for the police to finally convict him (of any worthy sentence) for pushing drugs to minors. To be honest a few class mates have went down the dead beat drug route, including my brother. Equally lots are living ok lives – not amazing high flying jobs but working in factories, Warburtons etc and just getting on with it. A few sad sad stories of death – 17 year old boy (didn’t know him personally) who lived in a nearby block of flats recently got stabbed to death by his supposed best mate! Drugs again! My brother’s best friend died of a drugs overdose at 16 and I think another died in a car chase.

 

I’ve personally been the victim of crime around Newcastle twice seriously, once I was assaulted by a man outside a swimming baths but screamed loud enough to scare him off and another time I was, think the term is car jacked, outside St James’ Park football ground whilst I got petrol at the garage there – Guy came from nowhere, opened car door grabbed my handbag from my hand whilst i was sitting in the car!!! I always always lock doors as soon as entering car every time and am nervous of people walking around my car whilst I’m in it now.

My brother before he became drug addicted got beaten to within an inch of his life at the Town Moor in Newcastle (family fun fair type event). I worry whenever my other brothers or sisters go out for a drink in town, it’s so unpredictable when people are tanked up in certain areas.

 

I didn’t know this at the time but my parents business in town from 1979 to 1996 was robbed and broken into that many times that my dad couldn’t get insurance anymore. My father worked nights and was physically attacked by customers (this was all largely kept from us kids) I did once witness money being stolen from the till and my dad confronted the guy and fought him (got money back) However, his mates came back and smashed windows. All in all I still even now cannot comprehend what my parents, especially my father had to go through to keep a roof over our heads. There were some evil people out there.

I do believe though that killed my dad – having to work in a supposedly thriving and up and coming town like Newcastle, and being harassed and assaulted year in year out. I sometimes go out to town and really feel for the owners of food businesses who work until 4am (like my dad did) and have to put up with abuse all night long from drunks and idiots trying to be funny.

 

I’m not saying the whole of the UK is bad but I don’t want to be here anymore, the examples of my personal experience will not reflect everyone and they are the worst I haven’t even mentioned the more minor elements – like chasing kids away from the garden gate constantly for smoking pot or stopping a 5 year old lad from calling my mum an old ugly witch. I feel sorry now for the UK more than anything as people are nice when you are in a nice little village in Oxfordshire or whatever and it totally spoils it when you have to witness day in day out disrespectful kids, drug dependent parents and corrupt politicians. It just proves to me at least, that things will never get better.

 

There's nothing wrong in you being fed up with the UK and wanting to leave. But these are the key points you need to keep in mind:

 

1) There are good and bad parts of Australia just like there are good and bad parts of the UK. Places where it's all lovely and some virtual no go areas. You'll probably find it hard to believe that there are no go areas in Aus where there is lots of crime and it'is dangerous to be out at night but there really are.

 

2) People behave badly everywhere. People in Aus DO get drunk and some of them DO get out of hand, just like in Newcastle in the UK or anywhere else for that matter. I've seen and heard kids at my child's school (under 10's) saying horrible things and my son has reported all kinds of stuff. And this is at a good school.

 

You can get to a point where you are convinced that little 5 year-olds being rude is unique to the UK, but it's best not to be that unrealistic in your expectations because you'll then go on to be disappointed when you eventually discover that kids are very similar the world over these days. They are influenced by essentially the same sources (movies, computer games etc) and kids do not grow up with more respect for their elders just because they happen to be Australian.

[Guest June Pixie]

Three Lions –I really should have breakfast but had to reply. I know there are good and bad parts to Australia as any country but the population and size of the UK is a major factor in more concentrated black spots than Australia. I realize that the population there is concentrated around coastal cities but you cannot get away from the fact that the population is way way smaller that here therefore crime is more spread out – that’s the very least I hope for when I go to Australia.

 

You have also picked up on, what I consider, to be the minor issues of child delinquency and cheeky kids. Saying horrible things is not nice but when your son is getting chased from school with stones thrown at him then you’d get disillusioned, especially realizing that the kids that done it there is no point going to speak to their parents as they are half cut the whole day and you’d get a mouthful of foul words – I’ve tried it.

 

Kids ARE kids but when the acceptable behavior boundaries for these kids are left unchecked by abusive, drug and alcohol dependent parents then we have problems – this at least in a few areas is the case – it’s not just the kids that are the problem. I was scared that my son came in the other week and said one of the kids said they would throw a brick off his head and that his older brother would kill him.

I’m not convinced you actually realize how some people live here in the UK in inner city areas. How when someone says that’s a no go area – it means really don’t go there for any reason – definitely don’t go there if you are the police or fire brigade - that’s a no go area, night /day and especially not on a full moon – the area I live is a livable area albeit just, but I know first hand how people operate as families and have no respect, no prospects, no pride and no morals. It takes only a small number to make a whole community go downhill fast – house prices are not the issue it’s your life that can be destroyed.

[Guest Three Lions]

I’m not convinced you actually realize how some people live here in the UK in inner city areas. How when someone says that’s a no go area – it means really don’t go there for any reason – definitely don’t go there if you are the police or fire brigade - that’s a no go area, night /day and especially not on a full moon – the area I live is a livable area albeit just, but I know first hand how people operate as families and have no respect, no prospects, no pride and no morals. It takes only a small number to make a whole community go downhill fast – house prices are not the issue it’s your life that can be destroyed.

 

Mmm, lived in London for 3 years and worked in and around the New Cross area. Think I do have some experience of inner city areas. No, I do not have experience of Newcastle but from what you say about it it's clearly not that lovely.

[The Ozcans]

People who want to move to Australia often get accused of viewing it through 'rose tinted glasses'.

People who live in Australia and miss UK often view it through 'rose tinted glasses'.

It's sad that someone is unhappy where they live, and if they can find a way out they should give it a go.(Aus - UK / UK - Aus)

England HAS changed ALOT recently. We moved back here in 2000 and can honestly say that we have seen a huge change in the last 4 years.

People who have not lived here for several years may find it hard to hear these things and think we're now a bunch of whingers.

I think the gaps between the 'nice' areas and 'not so nice areas' will get bigger and bigger.

There were 3 murders in my town of about 90,000 people last year. None of them made the regional TV news, only the local newspaper - that's just how frequently it happens in the midlands. In fact I don't watch Midlands Today because it is SO incredibly depressing it gets me down. If you could somehow watch it in Australia it might open your eyes to how bad parts of England are these days.

I'm sure when you left England it wasn't as bad as it is now, as I said we've noticed a huge difference in the last 4 years.

You need to understand that people AND places change. My oldest friend lived in London from 1981, she recently moved to Berlin because she said that London had become so corporate and aggressive. Living inner city a few years ago is not the same now, not in England.

I'm not uptight when I hear people saying negative things about Australia, it's all valid in my view, but to hold England as a shining beacon of civilised life in comparison is just as annoying to hear to me as people saying they want a better work/life balance in Australia is to you.(for example)

If you want to move back to UK do it. If you're homesick come and visit, but I suspect that if you lived anywhere you'd be saying the same thing, because ultimatly it's OUR OWN heads we live in!

Swings and roundabouts = we want to move to Australia because we think it will be good, you want to move back to UK because you think you know it's good!

All I'm saying is it used to be better.

 

Sue x

[Guest June Pixie]

The Ozcans I agree with that. In all honesty I would move anywhere out of UK, I'm not even saying Australia will be that good or child geared (like I hope it will be) I've always got options in Germany if I learn the language correctly. I was told to give, in other posts, specific examples and I have done so quite clearly - Obviously those examples have been dismissed and brushed under the carpet but hey - That's exactly what our politicians do so why should anyone on here be any different. Blinkers man!

[Guest LondonGal]

The Ozcans I agree with that. In all honesty I would move anywhere out of UK, I'm not even saying Australia will be that good or child geared (like I hope it will be) I've always got options in Germany if I learn the language correctly. I was told to give, in other posts, specific examples and I have done so quite clearly - Obviously those examples have been dismissed and brushed under the carpet but hey - That's exactly what our politicians do so why should anyone on here be any different. Blinkers man!

 

Please don't think your examples are being brushed under the carpet.I have seen similar things myself so I am under no illusion how some people live their life. Everyone's opinion and comments are valid though. You have to remember that you are describing your life and not everyone in the UK has that life, it's the same here in Oz. Just in the paper this week was a picture and article about a young child who had been negleted and died in squalor in Perth. Some kids drink and use drugs here from a young age. Unfortunatley these things happen everywhere.

 

For me I would happy to be in the UK as I think the good out weighs the bad, but that is my opinion. It sounds like you need to move your family to a better place and if that place is Oz then I hope it all works out for you.

[Guest pegasus 90]

There's nothing wrong in you being fed up with the UK and wanting to leave. But these are the key points you need to keep in mind:

 

1) There are good and bad parts of Australia just like there are good and bad parts of the UK. Places where it's all lovely and some virtual no go areas. You'll probably find it hard to believe that there are no go areas in Aus where there is lots of crime and it'is dangerous to be out at night but there really are.

 

2) People behave badly everywhere. People in Aus DO get drunk and some of them DO get out of hand, just like in Newcastle in the UK or anywhere else for that matter. I've seen and heard kids at my child's school (under 10's) saying horrible things and my son has reported all kinds of stuff. And this is at a good school.

 

You can get to a point where you are convinced that little 5 year-olds being rude is unique to the UK, but it's best not to be that unrealistic in your expectations because you'll then go on to be disappointed when you eventually discover that kids are very similar the world over these days. They are influenced by essentially the same sources (movies, computer games etc) and kids do not grow up with more respect for their elders just because they happen to be Australian.

Just thought I'd mention something that many people overlook (or most probably are unaware), the majority of crime is not reported by the Australian media. this is not to say it doesn't happen; on the contrary I have a friend who is a Det Sgt in the WA Police & he says that we don't know the half of it. Unfortunately the crime reporting is just one negative issue of the Britsh media. However the alternative (Oz media) can be misleading,trivial, insignificant & down right sycophantic at times.

What is best: being informed or blissfull ignorance?. Personally I'd take the impartial info & then make my own mind up.

[Guest Guruju]

Even the Australians don't rely on the media here - as I posted in Crimes in Oz thread - Easy way to have a reality check on any suburbs in Perth - WA Police has crime stats on its website Western Australia Police / Crime Statistics but also the Fed Gov has stats on WA Statistical sources - Western Australia [statistics]. I have found Australia to have less crime than the UK, I feel much safer here. It also tends to be much lower level crime than I experienced in the UK.I was a police officer for 8 years in Birmingham so have personal comparison to reality here.

[The Ozcans]

Just thought I'd mention something that many people overlook (or most probably are unaware), the majority of crime is not reported by the Australian media. this is not to say it doesn't happen; on the contrary I have a friend who is a Det Sgt in the WA Police & he says that we don't know the half of it. Unfortunately the crime reporting is just one negative issue of the Britsh media. However the alternative (Oz media) can be misleading,trivial, insignificant & down right sycophantic at times.

What is best: being informed or blissfull ignorance?. Personally I'd take the impartial info & then make my own mind up.

 

This seems to be the case in both countries then.

My local paper(midlands UK) got some figures for the town (population 92,000) through the freedom of information act.

 

viiolence against the person 91

drug offence 13

robbery 6

theft/handling 135

sexual offences 2

criminal damage 116

vehicle crime 91

burglary dwelling 31

burglary other 41

fraud/forgery 21

other offences 12

 

How many were reported to the public?????

3 of the theft/handling crimes

 

By the way. These crimes were commited in:

ONE MONTH - September 2008.

 

So there isn't actually an 'over-reporting of crime', most of it doesn't make the local paper and I said before even serious crimes don't even make it to the regional TV news.

[Guest guest22466]

I feel that crime depends on where you live in the UK or OZ. If you live in Liverpool NSW then the crime is higher than on the Lower North Shore. If you live in Manchester UK then the crime rate is higher than in Woking Surrey. It all depends where you live WITHIN that country WITHIN the world. Most crimes are not reported and so we never can tell only by what we experience and what we hear in the media which is not always the true picture.

[Sydney]

The question of Oz or UK depends a lot on age. You can't compare the many opportunities in Oz for a young person as opposed to the UK. As for someone a bit older and established financially the UK offers a lot culturally and for travel. I've been in Sydney for over thirty years and am thinking of returning to the UK with my partner for a couple of years, and the finanial aspects are our priority. I think the vast amount of "failures" of people who arrive in Oz from the UK and return home are the ones who simply try to bring the old country with them, settle in a crap part of Oz, or genuinely miss familly. As a young man I couldn't leave the UK fast enough, and have been lucky to live in some beautiful parts of Australia and New Zealand. For me there is no argument where to live if you hope to "kick on" in life.