QROPS for over 55s

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, MaxV said:

Perhaps I should have said   "have you considered tranferring your existing SIPPS **directly or indirectly** across to Aussie Super thereby possibly avoiding the extra complexity of additional SMSF or QROPS SMSF....."

 

No, that would have made no difference.   The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.   The rule, (as I understand it), is that if you have a private pension in the UK, regardless of what type it is, it cannot be transferred to a standard Australian superannuation fund.   It can be transferred to a QROPS compliant fund only. 

There is only one QROPS compliant fund in Australia.   If you don't like that one, you have to set up your own (i.e. a self managed super fund or SMSF).   There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS, but otherwise it's the same as any other SMSF.  

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.  I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.   

It must be incredibly frustrating, especially since (as previously stated), the problem arises from one small requirement of the British system, which isn't even relevant to anyone over 55.  And as GreySky says, the Australian superannuation funds were willing to make special arrangements to cater for the British rule, but for some reason the UK authorities wouldn't agree.   So it's doubly annoying because it's so unnecessary.  But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

7 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

II can kind of see why the UK authorities want expats to keep their pension trapped in the UK but the reality is that they have allowed the SMSF ‘loophole’ to remain thereby obliging people to pay large chunks of their pension to 3rd parties for no logical purpose and then have to manage and audit a SMSF. 

If it's any consolation, managing and auditing a SMSF is not as hard as you may think.   There are companies which offer to set up and manage your SMSF for you, and I think they make it sound onerous to convince you to use them.

I had a SMSF at one time.   The management wasn't hard to do.  The trustees need to hold a meeting occasionally to review results and decide investment strategy, and there must be minutes of each meeting.  At the meeting, the trustees can decide to delegate the daily management of the account to an individual.  For instance they might say that x can buy or sell shares up to a value of y each month, provided the transactions are in line with the investment strategy.   Then the delegated person can happily trade on the account for several months, with no need for further meetings or minutes or documentation other than the transaction records.   

Once a year, someone needs to audit the records.  Our accountant did that and it wasn't expensive.   

I no longer have a SMSF because it was a joint one with my (now ex-) partner and we split up.  He enjoyed share trading whereas I hate it, so I was happy to go back to an industry super fund.  

[MaxV]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, that would have made no difference.   The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.   The rule, (as I understand it), is that if you have a private pension in the UK, regardless of what type it is, it cannot be transferred to a standard Australian superannuation fund.   It can be transferred to a QROPS compliant fund only. 

There is only one QROPS compliant fund in Australia.   If you don't like that one, you have to set up your own (i.e. a self managed super fund or SMSF).   There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS, but otherwise it's the same as any other SMSF.  

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.  I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.   

It must be incredibly frustrating, especially since (as previously stated), the problem arises from one small requirement of the British system, which isn't even relevant to anyone over 55.  And as GreySky says, the Australian superannuation funds were willing to make special arrangements to cater for the British rule, but for some reason the UK authorities wouldn't agree.   So it's doubly annoying because it's so unnecessary.  But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.

 

Perhaps I should borrow your rose coloured spectacles......  Your rose coloured opinions are in rose/red/pink.....

No, that would have made no difference.      Disagree.

The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.       Disagree.

There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   "There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS"      This is exactly what I was referring to, it is often called or referred to as a QROPS SMSF or SMSF QROPS...... 

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.     Disagree,

 I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.    Disagree.

But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.    Disagree.

 

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, MaxV said:

 

Perhaps I should borrow your rose coloured spectacles......  Your rose coloured opinions are in rose/red/pink.....

 

Can you clarify where you think my spectacles are rose coloured?   I am saying the system is simple, BUT that does not mean it is good news.  What it means is that your options are extremely limited.  

I have clearly stated that you have a choice - transfer your UK private pension to the only compliant fund available, or set up your own SMSF with a compliant deed.  Those are your only options.   It is NOT satisfactory, so I am not happy about it, which means I'm not looking through "rose-coloured spectacles".   However it is undeniably simple.

If you believe there are other options, then please expand.  Some links to sites or sources for us to research would be helpful.  In particular, please explain to @Gbye grey sky, because he's told you that (as far as he is aware) there are no other options. 

[MaxV]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Can you clarify where you think my spectacles are rose coloured?   I am saying the system is simple, BUT that does not mean it is good news.  What it means is that your options are extremely limited.  

I have clearly stated that you have a choice - transfer your UK private pension to the only compliant fund available, or set up your own SMSF with a compliant deed.  Those are your only options.   It is NOT satisfactory, so I am not happy about it, which means I'm not looking through "rose-coloured spectacles".   However it is undeniably simple.

If you believe there are other options, then please expand.  Some links to sites or sources for us to research would be helpful.  In particular, please explain to @Gbye grey sky, because he's told you that (as far as he is aware) there are no other options. 

 

Perhaps I should borrow your rose coloured spectacles......  Your rose coloured opinions are in rose/red/pink.....

No, that would have made no difference.      Disagree.

The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.       Disagree.

There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   "There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS"      This is exactly what I was referring to, it is often called or referred to as a QROPS SMSF or SMSF QROPS...... 

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.     Disagree,

 I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.    Disagree.

But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.    Disagree.

 

As previously stated above, rose coloured opinions in rose/red/pink......  No further clarification required.....

I feel sure GB Grey Sky can speak for himself.....

You have your opinion, I have mine...... I feel sure GB Grey Sky has his own opinion too.....

 

 

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, MaxV said:

 

As previously stated above, rose coloured opinions in rose/red/pink......  No further clarification required.....

 

Rose coloured glasses means seeing things in a more positive light.  If you read my post properly, you would see that I do NOT see the situation in a positive light. 

It is a ridiculous situation which is stacked against the pension owner.  But I do not find it at all complex.

Clearly you think that means I am missing something.  It would be helpful if you explained what I am missing, rather than simply "disagreeing".  

Edited May 6, 2018 by Marisawright

[Ken]

On ‎5‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:09, Marisawright said:

I can understand Australian super funds being reluctant to remove the hardship provisions, because it would make them less attractive for most customers (what local person would choose a fund with no hardship provision, when there are plenty that have one?).   So the only way you're going to find a compliant super fund is if a private company decides to create one especially for expats.  It looks like only one company, Tidswell Financial Services, has decided it's worth their while.  Their fund is called the Australian Expatriate Super Fund (AESF).  

 

Australian super funds can not simply choose to remove the hardship provisions - particularly where the release of funds is on compassionate grounds. Applications for an early release of Super on compassionate grounds are made to and decided by the Australian Government - Department of Human Services. Most (if not all) super funds already impose the most restrictive rules on early withdrawals that they are allowed to under the legislation that applies to them. 

[MaxV]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Rose coloured glasses means seeing things in a more positive light.  If you read my post properly, you would see that I do NOT see the situation in a positive light. 

It is a ridiculous situation which is stacked against the pension owner.  But I do not find it at all complex.

Clearly you think that means I am missing something.  It would be helpful if you explained what I am missing, rather than simply "disagreeing".  

 

G`day Maria,

Relax...... We have different opinions, no big deal..... you have made some statements, I disagree with them.... you have every right to your opinion, I have every right to mine..... Who cares..... It does not matter..... there is no right or wrong, we just disagree on a few things...... no problem.....

Each individual has to assess their own position on these issues, we all have unique situations, that is the main reason people seek professional advice, ie, taxation, rules, regulations, country of origin/residence/retirement, retirement plans/expectations, families, partners, children, insurances, wills, health issues, age brackets, budgets, debts, knowledge, time, energy, assets, time left on this planet, etc, etc, these issues are also fluid/dynamic, particularly changes in laws and legislation...... Again good reason for seeking financial/professional advice.....

There is no one single solution that will fit everybodies needs, each individuals situation is unique, you just have to work through it and find the answer that best suits you and the retirement that you are seeking and try and work your way towards it.....

 

 

 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Ken said:

Australian super funds can not simply choose to remove the hardship provisions - particularly where the release of funds is on compassionate grounds. Applications for an early release of Super on compassionate grounds are made to and decided by the Australian Government - Department of Human Services. Most (if not all) super funds already impose the most restrictive rules on early withdrawals that they are allowed to under the legislation that applies to them. 

I suspected that would be the case, thanks.

[nickb787]

I wanted to bring this up again. I hope people will allow other opinions to be aired on the forum even from a long time lurker..

I would like to thank this forum for all the information it has provided me for my move to Australia from the UK earlier in the year, from what I needed to take or not to how to get a last second container which PPS provided when another company cancelled on me 10 days from being delivered to me. Thanks You.

 

Personal opinion here

One of the biggest things for me was moving my UK SIPP to Australia as mentioned due HMRC QROPS rules, it was frustrating with little choice of compliant funds available. 

After extensive investigation, my personal advise is to look closely at the fund(s) available and more importantly, the transfer and ongoing costs, they will add up, buried in the terms and conditions you might even find somewhere you will be paying for a QROPS transfer and an extra percentage for a number of years!  Also check on how much you can transfer, you may get different ideas, ask about transferring over £330,00  interesting that one.

If you are considering a larger value transfer, I was blessed with having one, then there are other avenues available consider setting up your own SMSF, if you have the correct documents to begin with, correct support from where ever the documents came from you will be amazed at what you can do. From setting the SMSF up, ASIC, bank accounts, exchange accounts, trading accounts.

For me I found the setting up and running the SMSF as extremely rewarding, my biggest reward is the satisfaction of reduced fees, apart from initial QROP company paperwork, ASIG fees, trading fees, very little, and there are other cost, audit  ect.  so as few low thousands not possible a whole lot more. 

I could not have done it though without the support of the gentleman who supplied me with the documents required to set up and run the SMSF and support though out the process. I don't wish to name him so as not to fall fowl of any forum rules, but if you just search for QROP compliant SMSF and setting your own up I am certain you will find him.

If you go this route, I think you will enjoy it .

 

Nick

 

 

 

[nickb787]

PSS removals sorry, Typo

 

I am happy to supply personal information to corroborate being a legit person and not affiliated with ANY  Company or organization. 

34 minutes ago, nickb787 said: