Just back from Australia

[CaptainC]

Hi everyone,

I just got back from doing my skills assessment exam in Brisbane and thought I'd share a few of my experiences from the trip.

Most of this will be well known and 'done to death' I'm sure, but having lived and worked in Australia a few years back, some of the experiences surprised me.

 

Firstly it's very noticeable how pricey things are, I've not visited since 2012 or lived there since 2010 but even since then I noticed that groceries in general have rocketed in price. The first thing I saw when I walked through the door was that limes were $1.50 each! Now I'm not going to list everything I bought or the prices but suffice to say that the small shopping list I had was about 20-30% more than I would likely pay in the UK. Another thing I noticed is that NZ wine was almost double the price of the same brand in Asda, something which shocked my Kiwi wife to the core!

Farmers markets seem to be cheaper and sell very good quality produce that the supermarkets don't want because it doesn't quite meet their stringent standards.

 

Holden and Ford which still form the majority of cars on the road seem to be in decline and there are a lot more European cars on the road than on previous visits, there was an ad on the TV for a VW Golf which I think was a lot cheaper than you'd pay in the UK. I chatted to a friend who lives there and he said that the manufacturing of Ford and Holden is moving overseas and is not so much the 'staple' of the Aussie consumer anymore. He's no expert but he predicted that in the next 5 or so years Holden and Ford numbers on the road may be in minority and the Japanese and European cars will form the majority. A sad conclusion I feel, as Australian car manufacturing was a great part of the Aussie patriotism as most people were either Ford or Holden (V8) stalwarts.

 

Fuel prices are cheaper in comparison, not quite half of the price of the UK but due to the strong pound and the recent fall in oil prices it's not far off.

 

I had a brief look at property in several towns outside Brisbane and saw that the prices have remained steady, and I still think that you get get more for your money in Australia. However my friend reckons that there has been a bit of a drop in the past 12 months or so. (He sold his house for 150k more than he paid for it, and subsequently bought another larger house for 120k less than the previously advertised price). Rentals are surprisingly scarce and if there is a good property for rent then you can be assured that if you don't jump at the chance to rent it the moment you see it advertised then in all likelihood it will be gone. Having done a few sums, I think that it is a lot more cost effective to buy, if you can.

 

Electricity prices are about 50% more expensive per KW/h than the UK and can be a huge part of a household expense due to the use of A/C dependant on where you decide to live. You'll find that in the UK that you can use the heating and then turn it off for several hours before it needs to go back on again. The same unfortunately can't be said for A/C, once it gets turned off the room heats up very quickly and it needs turning on again. Tinted windows and possibly insulation can help i'd reckon .

 

The job market appears to be competitive and jobs aren't in abundance as many people believe. My wife's friend has a degree and has been living in Oz for two years hasn't managed to break out of temping and into a full time job in that time. The usual excuses of being overqualified seem to be the buzz words used by employers.

 

Travel by train and bus is fairly cheap in comparison to the UK and is regular and punctual. There was a service in the city (Brisbane) that runs late at weekends (about 4am) to allow people to get home from pubs and clubs which I thought was great and would be welcomed where I live.

I took two trains and saw visible security guards onboard which was a welcome and comforting sight. Taxis were expensive regardless of the time of day but were plentiful and I don't think I waited more than 5 minutes after calling the taxi company.

 

Internal flights are inexpensive and very convenient, especially if you're only travelling with hand luggage, it takes minutes from arriving at the airport to boarding the plane so in some respects it's easier than boarding a train. I had major problems with Virgin Australia so much so that I will never fly with them again but that's my own personal experience and doubt that the vast majority of passengers suffered the same inadequacies of service that I received.

 

My wife and I forgot just how powerful the sun was in Australia and during a day at the beach on the Sunshine Coast I got sunburn and was really sick for a day or so afterwards. Usual warning to newcomers are slap on the factor 50 no matter if you've never been burned before or 'tan easily' (things I said on the day, and regretted soon afterwards) rest assured it will burn and it will hurt!

 

These are just some of the things I noticed and the list of comparisons is not exhaustive but I hope that some readers will find some of this informative and interesting.

[Perthbum]

Good honest post, very handy for people thinking of making the move, great points about the sun and the damage it can do even when sunscreen is applied if not at least f50, the Brits are so stupid in the sun when they first get over there, why do you see local spaniards when on holiday paler that most Brits? they have been brought up to respect the sun and never sunbathe.

[CaptainC]

Good honest post, very handy for people thinking of making the move, great points about the sun and the damage it can do even when sunscreen is applied if not at least f50, the Brits are so stupid in the sun when they first get over there, why do you see local spaniards when on holiday paler that most Brits? they have been brought up to respect the sun and never sunbathe.

 

Absolutely. Slip slap slop!

[Guest]

So million dollar question, I am assuming your Kiwi wife is partly responsible for the move, if you were single would you choose to live there or stay in the UK?

[ciaranmacgiolla]

Great post mate, yes the cost of living has soared in the last 5 yrs, I was a backpacker in 2001 and it was so cheap here, moved out in 2006 and it still wasn't too bad, but since 2010 or so it's soaring.. Property prices are mental and I'd say within 2 yrs we may see the bubble burst

[CaptainC]

Australia all the way......

[CaptainC]

So million dollar question, I am assuming your Kiwi wife is partly responsible for the move, if you were single would you choose to live there or stay in the UK?

 

Australia all the way.

 

It's not always been the case. I spent about three weeks there in 2006, I was adamant that I didn't ever want to leave the UK.

 

The pivotal moment came when I stood by a river in NSW and felt the calmness of the place and saw the beauty. It was astonishing.

I know the UK has beauty in droves but this was something very different, like I had a feeling of joy that I only felt as a child.

I think that was worth more than a million dollars.

(But yeah I think that she'd leave me if we didn't move!)

[CaptainC]

Great post mate, yes the cost of living has soared in the last 5 yrs, I was a backpacker in 2001 and it was so cheap here, moved out in 2006 and it still wasn't too bad, but since 2010 or so it's soaring.. Property prices are mental and I'd say within 2 yrs we may see the bubble burst

 

My wife is always saying to me, cheap this, cheap that, can't believe the prices in the UK...etc etc.

 

Last week she was shocked and took it all back.

 

Forgot to mention though, I bought a GoPro camera at Myers that was nearly £100 cheaper than in the UK (including the GST refund at the airport). Electronic goods do seem to be significantly cheaper in Oz, although I didn't look at everything. Had a brief look at TV's and made a decision to not ship mine when I move as I can pick one up slightly cheaper in oz and therefore save on shipping mine from the UK.

[Marisawright]

My wife is always saying to me, cheap this, cheap that, can't believe the prices in the UK...etc etc.

 

Last week she was shocked and took it all back..

 

Question - you say you get more for your money in Qld than in the UK. Which part of the UK are we talking? I know prices vary in the UK just like here.

 

Did you think cars were cheaper in Oz generally, or just the European cars?

[Gbye grey sky]

Question - you say you get more for your money in Qld than in the UK. Which part of the UK are we talking? I know prices vary in the UK just like here.

 

Did you think cars were cheaper in Oz generally, or just the European cars?

 

That's definitely the key point. We are going to get much more for our money* but then we are moving from a London suburb to outer Brisbane. If we were heading to a place a similar distance from Sydney to where we are from London that property would be more equivalent to what we now have (though the recent exchange rate shift has helped a lot). Our humble little house would be worth half or even a quarter of what it is if it was elsewhere in the UK and on that basis even outer Brisbane would seem pricey.

 

*For the price of our pebble-dash 3 bed semi-detached 1930s home we could own acreage or a modest beachfront home or a 5 bed detached with pool on a decent-sized plot for an equivalent value in outer Brisbane. In reality we want something more modest than these options and not spend the same btw.

[CaptainC]

Question - you say you get more for your money in Qld than in the UK. Which part of the UK are we talking? I know prices vary in the UK just like here.

 

Did you think cars were cheaper in Oz generally, or just the European cars?

 

Well I live in the north west but the houses I'm talking about are the larger 4+ bedroom homes. For example my friends house was 510k dollars and is 5 bedroom, 4 bath, two car garage and pool. The equivalent where I live (if it was possible to get would be way in excess of £350-400k and several hundreds of thousands more in the SE for example. His is a doer upper though, granted.

 

I don't have a lot to base my findings on except that one ad for a VW Golf so I think you'll just have to see for yourself.

European cars have generally been very expensive, (the obvious reason is the shipping costs) if you look at carsales.com.au you will see. It's the luxury car tax that escalates the price through the roof generally.

When I went in 2006 I had a 3 series BMW in the UK that was about 4 years old and it was only worth about £8000, but I saw an almost identical car with similar mileage and spec on a forecourt in Sydney and it was AUD$35,000.

 

Just did a quick comparison of my current car on the carsales website and the Australian version is roughly AUD $12,000 more than the UK for a 2015 Audi A5. It's like comparing apples and oranges though and for me to make a sweeping statement of the cost of European, Australian, Japanese cars in comparison to the UK would be wrong. It's best that you look for your desired car on a car sales website such as the one mentioned above and see how much you'd be expected to pay. Beware though, because a lot of the prices quoted are not including LCT (Luxury Car Tax).

[CaptainC]

That's definitely the key point. We are going to get much more for our money* but then we are moving from a London suburb to outer Brisbane. If we were heading to a place a similar distance from Sydney to where we are from London that property would be more equivalent to what we now have (though the recent exchange rate shift has helped a lot). Our humble little house would be worth half or even a quarter of what it is if it was elsewhere in the UK and on that basis even outer Brisbane would seem pricey.

 

*For the price of our pebble-dash 3 bed semi-detached 1930s home we could own acreage or a modest beachfront home or a 5 bed detached with pool on a decent-sized plot for an equivalent value in outer Brisbane. In reality we want something more modest than these options and not spend the same btw.

 

Yes I agree, mine was somewhat of a sweeping statement I'll admit.

I based it on my growing family, my desired house in my desired suburb and looking at the equivalent houses I could get in my area in the UK.

I intend to scale up from my current house as I mentioned before the family is getting bigger and I also want more space for other things. Admittedly a lot of people will not want or need the size or style of house that they currently reside in, and may want to up or downsize, and that obviously has an impact on the price.

[fish.01]

Hi everyone,

.

 

How are you comparing all these prices between Aus and UK ?

[CaptainC]

How are you comparing all these prices...exchange rates ?

 

Current bank exchange rates, yes.

[fish.01]

Current bank exchange rates, yes.

 

So that doesn't take into account wages then ?

[CaptainC]

So that doesn't take into account wages then ?

 

No, just face value.

[fish.01]

No, just face value.

 

So those comparisons that ignore average salaries are only valid for visitors to a country then ?...not a comparison of which country is dearer or cheaper for something when living there...

[CaptainC]

So those comparisons that ignore average salaries are only valid for visitors to a country then ?...not a comparison of which country is dearer or cheaper for something when living there...

 

 

I am only sharing my experiences. It's up to the reader to do their own calculations, I can't possibly account for the difference in UK/Aus salaries for every person who reads it.

I lived in Australia in the recent past and I noticed changes in much the same way that if you haven't seen a baby for a while you notice how much they've grown.

It is what it is.

[fish.01]

I am only sharing my experiences. It's up to the reader to do their own calculations, I can't possibly account for the difference in UK/Aus salaries for every person who reads it.

I lived in Australia in the recent past and I noticed changes in much the same way that if you haven't seen a baby for a while you notice how much they've grown.

It is what it is.

 

Fair enough...maybe what I can add will help some of those who hate maths do the calculations more accurately. When comparing cost of living a rough guess of the average salary difference (say 2.5) is somewhat accurate....using the exchange rate doesn't work at all and can be very misleading unfortunately.

 

For example, If I spend 1% of my salary in Australia on food and the pound stirling suddenly tanks I obviously still spend 1% of my salary on food. Unfortunately using the exchange rate to compare would suggest my cost of living for food has shot up in Australia when in reality the pound tanking has nothing to do with the cost of food in Australia. Using the proper average salary comparison rate instead would still correctly show food prices as stable.

 

The same goes for wages...for example, converting an australian salary you have been offered over Skype back to pounds may make it seem really great if you use the exchange rate. But when you divide more correctly by average salary difference (lets say 2.5) you get a more realistic idea of the spending power you will have with that salary in Australia.

[CaptainC]

Fair enough...maybe what I can add will help some do those calculations accurately. When comparing cost of living a rough guess of the average salary difference (say 2.5) is somewhat accurate....using the exchange rate doesn't work at all and can be very misleading unfortunately.

 

For example, If I spend 1% of my salary on food and the pound stirling suddenly tanks I obviously still spend 1% of my salary on food. Unfortunately using the exchange rate to compare would suggest my cost of living for food has shot up. Using the proper average salary comparison rate instead would still correctly show food prices as stable.

 

The same goes for wages...for example, converting an australian salary you have been offered over Skype back to pounds may make it seem really great if you use the exchange rate. But when you divide more correctly by average salary difference (lets say 2.5) you get a more realistic idea of the spending power you will have with that salary in Australia.

 

That's really helpful, thanks.

I'd seen the x2.5 for salaries written on here before but there were several ways that people calculated it.

So would I be right to say that if a person earns, for example, £100k in the UK, they would be on a similar standing if they earned AUD$250k? Or would it be £250k then converted to Australian dollars, which would be more like AUD$490k at today's rates?

[fish.01]

...

So would I be right to say that if a person earns, for example, £100k in the UK, they would be on a similar standing if they earned AUD$250k? ..

 

Yes, that one ! Of course coming from little city to big city and vice versa can have a big influence as well but it gives the best guess.

[CaptainC]

Yes, that one !

 

Ok, that's excellent! Thanks for that.

[fish.01]

So for those that hate maths...and apologies if any find this condescending but it is meant to help someone....if you want to compare the cost of living for a particular thing do the following rather than using the exchange rate. It is not perfect but it is almost certainly more accurate than using the exchange rate:

 

Question: Is this product that costs $25 in Australia dearer or cheaper than the UK ?

 

$25 divided by 2.5 = 10 quid.

 

If same product in the UK is dearer than 10 quid Australia is cheaper.

If same product in the UK is cheaper than 10 quid Australia is dearer.

 

 

Question: What sort of buying power will this $100,000 salary they have offered me provide ?

 

$100,000 divided by 2.5 = 40,000 quid

 

NOT $100,000 divided by <random current exchange rate> = <I'm in the money>

 

 

Caveat: 2.5 is just an estimate worked out in previous times and may not be totally up-to-date.

[Gbye grey sky]

So for those that hate maths...and apologies if any find this condescending but it is meant to help someone....if you want to compare the cost of living for a particular thing do the following rather than using the exchange rate. It is not perfect but it is almost certainly more accurate than using the exchange rate:

 

Question: Is this product that costs $25 in Australia dearer or cheaper than the UK ?

 

$25 divided by 2.5 = 10 quid.

 

If same product in the UK is dearer than 10 quid Australia is cheaper.

If same product in the UK is cheaper than 10 quid Australia is dearer.

 

 

Question: What sort of buying power will this $100,000 salary they have offered me provide ?

 

$100,000 divided by 2.5 = 40,000 quid

 

NOT $100,000 divided by <random current exchange rate>

 

 

Caveat: 2.5 is just an estimate for example purposes and may not be totally up-to-date.

 

Not disagreeing with you at all but there are some (like us) who will be effectively retiring in Oz and taking our savings over and will also have pension income (Civil Service and state pensions) in the future which will be in sterling. For people like us (who will be permanently resident and not visitors) the comparisons are valid.

 

I accept we are in the minority but there is a tendency to assume that everyone from the UK will be earning a living in Australia and that is not always the case.

[fish.01]

Not disagreeing with you at all but there are some (like us) who will be effectively retiring in Oz and taking our savings over and will also have pension income (Civil Service and state pensions) in the future which will be in sterling. For people like us (who will be permanently resident and not visitors) the comparisons are valid.

 

I accept we are in the minority but there is a tendency to assume that everyone from the UK will be earning a living in Australia and that is not always the case.

 

Yes, sure...don't worry I think most lifers on this forum know there are some poor souls who have to live and breathe the daily exchange rate On the upside you are the very few who get to do the easier xchange rate comparison when comparing costs.