Britons ready to welcome migrants from Bulgaria and Romania

[simmo]

so is it better to address the problems at home or just keep importing labour?

[jac2011]

so is it better to address the problems at home or just keep importing labour?

 

Do you think the problem at home can be fixed in the short term?

[simmo]

Do you think the problem at home can be fixed in the short term?

Depend what you mean by short term, its been a long time coming but as long as we are part of the EU our hands are tied. I think you are suggesting (correct me if i'm wrong) that we have no choice? but there are a number of solutions if (again) we where free from the shackles of EU bureaucracy.

 

more on the subject but not directed specificity at jac2011.

Migrants can see GPs for free, despite promise of crackdown

Health Tourists

 

It seems to me that nearly every estimate given to us over the years to alleviate our fears over mass immigration has turned out to be grossly off the mark. Basically if the government tells us a number we can more or less double it. Its only after the horse has bolted that we get the true numbers.

[Gbye grey sky]

not sure if the comparisons are valid TBH

 

Why do you say that? Are the only valid statistics those that match your view? You should be in politics........or are you already?

 

:biggrin:

[simmo]

Why do you say that? Are the only valid statistics those that match your view? You should be in politics........or are you already?

 

:biggrin:

“Still, it is worth noting that this group made up less than 1 per cent of total working age benefit claims in February 2012, while accounting for 2 per cent of the UK population according to 2011 Census data.”

 

Its reads that they are comparing total working age benefit claimant for one month to percentage of of UK population of course its going to be small..

[Gbye grey sky]

“Still, it is worth noting that this group made up less than 1 per cent of total working age benefit claims in February 2012, while accounting for 2 per cent of the UK population according to 2011 Census data.”

 

Its reads that they are comparing total working age benefit claimant for one month to percentage of of UK population of course its going to be small..

 

So it is not about interpreting statistics, you simply don't comprehend them. Would recommend that you stop referring to statistics until you gain a better understanding.

[simmo]

So it is not about interpreting statistics, you simply don't comprehend them. Would recommend that you stop referring to statistics until you gain a better understanding.

Its quite simple, you either believe the spin or you don't. Historicly governments have miss-led us on immigration and have been proven to be either incompetent with thier statistical analysis or simply liars.

[pablo]

Its quite simple, you either believe the spin or you don't. Historicly governments have miss-led us on immigration and have been proven to be either incompetent with thier statistical analysis or simply liars.

 

The "think tank" estimates have been a joke to be fair yes,13 thousand Poles they said,anybody who had worked in Germany knew there would be way more than that coming in

[Gbye grey sky]

Its quite simple, you either believe the spin or you don't. Historicly governments have miss-led us on immigration and have been proven to be either incompetent with thier statistical analysis or simply liars.

 

They did get the numbers wrong. Not excusing it but Britain was booming at the time and that is very attractive to would-be immigrants. I am always dubious about the orthodoxy that immigration is bad for the economy and the indigenous population. When you see that far fewer European immigrants claim dole compared with British citizens it is hard not to draw a conclusion that they provide a stimulus.

 

The population is ageing so unless the birth rate increases (not a good thing IMO) then new young workers must come from overseas to pay the taxes that will one day fund our pensions. It does need some controls though and the European Union needs to comprehend this.

[simmo]

They did get the numbers wrong. Not excusing it but Britain was booming at the time and that is very attractive to would-be immigrants. I am always dubious about the orthodoxy that immigration is bad for the economy and the indigenous population. When you see that far fewer European immigrants claim dole compared with British citizens it is hard not to draw a conclusion that they provide a stimulus.

 

The population is ageing so unless the birth rate increases (not a good thing IMO) then new young workers must come from overseas to pay the taxes that will one day fund our pensions. It does need some controls though and the European Union needs to comprehend this.

 

and what? these immigrants never get old or sick of course they create a stimulus most of it is cheep labour though. Pensions should be funded by investment not by taxes, throwing more and more immigration at the problem will not solve the issue in the short or long term.

[Gbye grey sky]

and what? these immigrants never get old or sick of course they create a stimulus most of it is cheep labour though. Pensions should be funded by investment not by taxes, throwing more and more immigration at the problem will not solve the issue in the short or long term.

 

Sorry Simmo but are you saying that the UK Government should invest taxpayers money (in equities or property or something) and fund future pensions from the profits. Pensions will always be funded from taxes. Of course immigrants age but they are generally younger than the indigenous population of baby boomers such as I who will need their pensions in 10 to 15 years from now.

 

I would urge you to look at the plight of Japan which has had close to zero immigration and is facing a demographic timebomb with the retired set to outnumber the working in the not too distant future.

[The Fisheys]

If the govt actively encouraged people into work, no matter what the job then perhaps there wouldn't be all the menial jobs left empty in the UK for the Europeans to do. Even education is laughed at these days, a lot of people leave school unable to read and write and think of school as a punishment. The Europeans have a healthier attitude to education and view it as a valuable resource (well the Europeans I have come across). My sister and partner have lived on benefits and when I discuss them getting work (14 years on the dole) there is always a reason why they cant. The pay isn't enough, the jobs are not paid well enough, I wouldn't be seen dead doing that or I would prefer to go to uni and get a well paid job (well in the 6 years this has been said this said sibling hasn't even resat her gcse's to gain entry to a foundation class). I understand the UK and its resources will be stretched but also remember a large proportion of these Europeans will come into the UK and pay tax on their earnings and will contribute more financially to England than what they claim in benefits.

 

No need to encourage them into work, just curtail handouts after two years. No insult to your relatives, whose circumstances I do not know, but overall the reason why you see multiple generations of benefit claimants is it has become the "family business."

In ye olden days, us hard working peasants worked all the hours god sent, paid our taxes, and watched the feudal baron chase round after village girls all day, or go hunting, or drink themselves stupid all the time. Now, walk,down any High Street and you can see the modern day equivalent, the chavs spending our taxes on drugs, booze, and tattoos, swearing at you, urinating, and smoking in the street and stuff. And why do they all have pit bull terriers called "Tyson," or "Kong," or something?

[jac2011]

No need to encourage them into work, just curtail handouts after two years. No insult to your relatives, whose circumstances I do not know, but overall the reason why you see multiple generations of benefit claimants is it has become the "family business."

In ye olden days, us hard working peasants worked all the hours god sent, paid our taxes, and watched the feudal baron chase round after village girls all day, or go hunting, or drink themselves stupid all the time. Now, walk,down any High Street and you can see the modern day equivalent, the chavs spending our taxes on drugs, booze, and tattoos, swearing at you, urinating, and smoking in the street and stuff. And why do they all have pit bull terriers called "Tyson," or "Kong," or something?

 

I do agree, Im not saying my relatives are bad people - just the way life was paved out to them. I have worked every day (bar 4 months) since I was 13 (now nearly 20 years) and couldn't imagine not working. I agree benefits should be reduced. However, there are charities out there petitioning because the amount of people going to food banks or becoming homeless is increasing. I don't know how it works to be honest but how can some people be so rich with huge smoking and drinking habits, nights out, holidays etc and yet others can be so poor? I think things like food vouchers and bills being paid should be utilised. workers tax money being used for things like cigarettes and alcohol is a major irritation of mine. I don't want to smoke and drink every day, however I couldn't afford to if I wished.

 

Seems like the govt perhaps needs to start from scratch but every minor change they make gets pulled to shreds by the people who will lose out.

 

I don't have the answers at all, I don't even know how I feel on the immigration front. I can see both sides of the fence and luckily I am not in the position to have any say. I just believe that just like us poms believe we should have a right to a chance to live in Australia by contributing to their economy, Europeans should be given the chance to give their families a better quality of life.

[simmo]

Sorry Simmo but are you saying that the UK Government should invest taxpayers money (in equities or property or something) and fund future pensions from the profits. Pensions will always be funded from taxes. Of course immigrants age but they are generally younger than the indigenous population of baby boomers such as I who will need their pensions in 10 to 15 years from now.

 

I would urge you to look at the plight of Japan which has had close to zero immigration and is facing a demographic timebomb with the retired set to outnumber the working in the not too distant future.

No i'm saying that investing in people, schemes to get our youth working and paying tax and NI instead of sitting at home playing Grand theft auto. Clamping down on fraudulent clams. The government already invests NI surplus.

[paulv]

From your link

 

 

A lot of businesses recruit direct from other countries or don't directly employ school leavers, migrants will of course be more motivated when they arrive to a place where their incomes even on minimum wage will be much better than they are used to. What's the answer? abandon the millions of home grown unemployed youth and low skilled and just keep on bringing in migrants?

I keep hearing this "migrants take jobs that Brits don't want" and i'm sure some of this is true but I don't believe letting in more migrants is the answer.

 

"Our analysis suggests that rather than being a drain on the UK’s fiscal system, immigrants arriving since the early 2000s have made substantial net contributions to [the UK’s] public finances, a reality that contrasts starkly with the view often maintained in public debate,” the report concludes."

 

From that lefty rag - the Financial Times

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9172b1f4-455d-11e3-b98b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ozxPa6Ud

[pablo]

No need to encourage them into work, just curtail handouts after two years. No insult to your relatives, whose circumstances I do not know, but overall the reason why you see multiple generations of benefit claimants is it has become the "family business."

In ye olden days, us hard working peasants worked all the hours god sent, paid our taxes, and watched the feudal baron chase round after village girls all day, or go hunting, or drink themselves stupid all the time. Now, walk,down any High Street and you can see the modern day equivalent, the chavs spending our taxes on drugs, booze, and tattoos, swearing at you, urinating, and smoking in the street and stuff. And why do they all have pit bull terriers called "Tyson," or "Kong," or something?

 

Lol,chavmageddon out there isnt it Fisheys?!