Paul1Perth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I can't comment...I don't know anything about the nervous system of a fish. Ever seen one on a hook? The don't like it a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 We are never going to agree about this and to put drug dealers on a higher moral ground than live export farmers is way over the top IMO. How many animals out of a massive shipment get treated like this?? If we see one being filmed on TV every 6 months out of millions that get shipped it's going to kick off the same protestations every time. The greenies aren't going to show the 99% of the time the animals are being killed and butchered correctly, no story in that. I suspect all the animals that pass through the people on the films are treated like this - or do you think they treat one day's batch humanely and then suddenly decide the following day to treat them appallingly? Shipping live animals abroad, or even long distances, is inhumane in itself. It should be banned. Let countries import meat which has been slaughtered, or breed their own livestock. Or alter their diet accordingly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I suspect all the animals that pass through the people on the films are treated like this - or do you think they treat one day's batch humanely and then suddenly decide the following day to treat them appallingly? Shipping live animals abroad, or even long distances, is inhumane in itself. It should be banned. Let countries import meat which has been slaughtered, or breed their own livestock. Or alter their diet accordingly... I think that 99% of the animals we send abroad are slaughtered correctly. I could be wrong but I'm not going to lose sleep about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ever seen one on a hook? The don't like it a whole lot. What are we going to do with all that spare fish n' chip paper then?? Cheers, Bobj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, I don't know that much about the nervous system of a cow. Does that exclude me from any moral responsibility? I'm not talking about fish. You may be. The subject of this thread is the mass export of live sheep, cattle and goats...all of which experience stress, fear and pain caused by human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Are you a veggie Skani? Whether a person is "a veggie" or not is totally irrelevant to this subject. Non vegetarians can be - and are - totally appalled by this live trade. I think the causing misery and suffering to sentient beings is only part of the reason the drug trade etc. being illegal. There are many more reasons why. If these other activities caused no misery and suffering there would be no reason to ban them. We are never going to agree about this and to put drug dealers on a higher moral ground than live export farmers is way over the top IMO. ???? No idea what this is about. I certainly don't put drug dealers on a higher moral ground than export farmers and nothing I have said could be interpreted like that. How many animals out of a massive shipment get treated like this?? If we see one being filmed on TV every 6 months out of millions that get shipped Unfortunately it's not one every 6 months. In each case there are multiple examples in multiple countries....Indonesia, Kuwait, Pakistan, Israel, Mauritius, Turkey, Egypt, Qatar, Gaza have all featured in the last 12 months. This last incident in Gaza has at least 5 separate incidents recorded. Camera recorders aren't hanging around on the off chance one of these incidents might occur. They are advised by people working in these facilities that inhumane treatment is going on...and then they go in with a camera. So what gets back to Australia is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact that 2.5 million have died at sea from overcrowding, thirst, hunger and heat exhaustion before even reaching their destination is an indictment alone of this practice. Most which arrive will then have their throats cut while fully conscious. If you are quite happy to have your throat cut while fully conscious, then fair enough. The greenies aren't going to show... I don't know why you keep going on about "greenies". These incidents are reported initially by veterinarians and other concerned citizens of the countries who work in these facilities - and who know it it not right under any code of conduct to treat animals like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Non vegetarians can be - and are - totally appalled by this live trade. Some are, some aren't. Most which arrive will then have their throats cut while fully conscious.If you are quite happy to have your throat cut while fully conscious, then fair enough. I thought this thread was about cattle, goats and sheep, not humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I thought this thread was about cattle, goats and sheep, not humans. No one cares about the fish, that's for sure. Or poultry. Quick pop quiz; I'll buy the first correct answer a pint. What do cattle, goats and sheep all have in common? (Apart from featuring in these disturbing videos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audre Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 note the title. this is happening right here. while i agree with the view that all living creatures matter, we need to be aware of cultural contexts - and we should also see how humans are treated and think twice about demonising other cultures before our own: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/agony-of-children-treated-worse-than-animals-20131218-2zl90.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 note the title. this is happening right here. while i agree with the view that all living creatures matter, we need to be aware of cultural contexts - and we should also see how humans are treated and think twice about demonising other cultures before our own: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/agony-of-children-treated-worse-than-animals-20131218-2zl90.html like demonising the cultures they fled ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Whether a person is "a veggie" or not is totally irrelevant to this subject.Non vegetarians can be - and are - totally appalled by this live trade. If these other activities caused no misery and suffering there would be no reason to ban them. ???? No idea what this is about. I certainly don't put drug dealers on a higher moral ground than export farmers and nothing I have said could be interpreted like that. Unfortunately it's not one every 6 months. In each case there are multiple examples in multiple countries....Indonesia, Kuwait, Pakistan, Israel, Mauritius, Turkey, Egypt, Qatar, Gaza have all featured in the last 12 months. This last incident in Gaza has at least 5 separate incidents recorded. Camera recorders aren't hanging around on the off chance one of these incidents might occur. They are advised by people working in these facilities that inhumane treatment is going on...and then they go in with a camera. So what gets back to Australia is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact that 2.5 million have died at sea from overcrowding, thirst, hunger and heat exhaustion before even reaching their destination is an indictment alone of this practice. Most which arrive will then have their throats cut while fully conscious. If you are quite happy to have your throat cut while fully conscious, then fair enough. I don't know why you keep going on about "greenies". These incidents are reported initially by veterinarians and other concerned citizens of the countries who work in these facilities - and who know it it not right under any code of conduct to treat animals like this. if the throat cutting bothers you check out the RSPCA website . Most of the meat we now eat is stunned first but halal . And special licences granted for halal specific dealers . In Australia . Plenty to protest about for the genuine animal lover before you even get to a boat . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 note the title. this is happening right here. while i agree with the view that all living creatures matter, we need to be aware of cultural contexts - and we should also see how humans are treated and think twice about demonising other cultures before our own: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/agony-of-children-treated-worse-than-animals-20131218-2zl90.html Written by Sarah Hanson Young. What a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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