dxboz Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Paul you are obviously not referring to the miners strike when Maggie Thatcher was in power or you would not have been crossing the picket line for your own self gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 mickyb Not funny or appropriate But true and killed instantly . Sorry for any offence . I was conferring with Paul over the hypocrisy of some so called animal lovers . Although I have a lot of respect for anyone who would put themselves in danger to high light any cruelty . Especially green peace on whaling issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxboz Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Thanks for answering me mickyb - now time i got out of this discussion - you are either an animal lover or you are not (don't mean you by the way) - not even an animal lover - you just have to have an understanding that animals feel pain and have feelings to know that sending them live to countries that will subject them to horrible cruelty and pain before killing them is NOT RIGHT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 ... sending them live to countries that will subject them to horrible cruelty and pain before killing them is NOT RIGHT Just out of interest, how do you stand on the issue of asylum seekers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 people who seem to want kill an industry in Aus stone dead, with no thought for the herds of cattle here and the people it might affect in the same barrel. No, we wouldn't want to kill any industry which is making a buck - no matter how much misery it involves. So let's stop destroying crystal meth labs and child pornography rings and sex trade rings: sure they create misery for sentient beings but hey...they are someone's livelihood...so that's all that matters. The live export "industry", by the way, is 0.03% of Australian exports. New Zealand had the decency to ban this trade 10 years ago. Unfortunately Australia doesn't have the ethics or morals to follow it. In the words of another Australian: "The live export trade is Australia’s shame and so long as it continues the nation has no claim to moral worthiness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommyaussie Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Nobody wants to kill any industry. We just want a humane business plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxboz Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Just out of interest, how do you stand on the issue of asylum seekers? I have no idea where the correlation between asylum seekers and animals comes into it - Australia does not kill asylum seekers. However my stance is if they are genuine bring them on - you mean ones come by boat? If they are genuine - I feel for them big time - Not all are genuine though - in fact a large percentage are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 >>Just out of interest, how do you stand on the issue of asylum seekers? I have no idea where the correlation between asylum seekers and animals comes into it - Australia does not kill asylum seekers. Australia isn't killing these animals either; it's happening abroad. The question is: if you wouldn't send an animal to somewhere where it would be ill treated, would you send a human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommyaussie Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Australia isn't killing these animals either; it's happening abroad. The question is: if you wouldn't send an animal to somewhere where it would be ill treated, would you send a human? Australia is sending these animals to be killed knowing how they are being treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audre Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Just out of interest, how do you stand on the issue of asylum seekers? I have no idea where the correlation between asylum seekers and animals comes into it - Australia does not kill asylum seekers. However my stance is if they are genuine bring them on - you mean ones come by boat? If they are genuine - I feel for them big time - Not all are genuine though - in fact a large percentage are not Did you just make this up? You did, didnt you. I suggest some proper informing before saying something factually wrong. more than 93 percent of Australian asylum seekers are convention refugees. this statistic has been confirmed by the immigration department. here is some useful reading, note page 5: http://www.asrc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/MythBusterJuly2013FINAL.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxboz Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Actually - no I didn't make it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Actually - no I didn't make it up Where's the source for your data then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurPendragon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 But true and killed instantly . Sorry for any offence . I was conferring with Paul over the hypocrisy of some so called animal lovers . Although I have a lot of respect for anyone who would put themselves in danger to high light any cruelty . Especially green peace on whaling issues The animal rights movement ( which included liberating animals from Slaughter houses and experimental labs, some of which were not legal activities at that time) was the one that lead to the humane methods that's currently practiced in many countries of the world. So blaming them as hypocrites isn't right and if the status quoits had their way, all these progress would have stopped. Initially, the animal rights movement was demonized, but popular support pushed the governments to bring in rules and regulations to make the food/cosmetics/scientific labs and other industries more humane. Reading Peter Singer's Animal liberation would give us a new perspective of the movement. On the other hand, I feel that all animals need our empathy and fail to understand why some empathize with whales, but do not empathize with other sentient beings which are slaughtered for food and proven to be as intelligent. You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity.-Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 mickyb Not funny or appropriate Unless it's true of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Paul you are obviously not referring to the miners strike when Maggie Thatcher was in power or you would not have been crossing the picket line for your own self gain One and the same mate. No sense in having a day of Uni though. Would never have crossed a picket line if I had been down the pit still, would have been on the picket line. Not going to help the miners or my Dad one bit, me not going to Uni though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 No, we wouldn't want to kill any industry which is making a buck - no matter how much misery it involves.So let's stop destroying crystal meth labs and child pornography rings and sex trade rings: sure they create misery for sentient beings but hey...they are someone's livelihood...so that's all that matters. The live export "industry", by the way, is 0.03% of Australian exports. New Zealand had the decency to ban this trade 10 years ago. Unfortunately Australia doesn't have the ethics or morals to follow it. In the words of another Australian: "The live export trade is Australia’s shame and so long as it continues the nation has no claim to moral worthiness." Who was the other Australian you mention? definitely not a farmer or anybody involved in the live trade industry. No sense in putting up quotes from people, I'm sure I could dig round and find some quotes with opposing views but it doesn't prove anything. As for keeping the meths labs, child pornography rings and the sex trade that's just plain stupid. They are all illegal for a start and the full weight of the law should be applied to anyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxboz Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 One and the same mate. No sense in having a day of Uni though. Would never have crossed a picket line if I had been down the pit still, would have been on the picket line. Not going to help the miners or my Dad one bit, me not going to Uni though. You are right Paul not going to Uni that day would not have helped anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Actually - no I didn't make it up So, have you found references/a credible source yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 As for keeping the meths labs, child pornography rings and the sex trade that's just plain stupid. They are all illegal for a start and the full weight of the law should be applied to anyone involved. I believe that is what many are saying - the vile live export trade should also be made illegal, and the prosperity/livelihood of those involved in it is irrelevant. They have as much right to make money from it as drug dealers/child porn/sex traffickers. In fact I would place drug dealers on a rather higher moral plane than live export farmers - at least the former are generally selling their product to willing consumers without involving the cruelty, agony, and death of unwilling victims as an integral part of their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 As for keeping the meths labs, child pornography rings and the sex trade that's just plain stupid. They are all illegal for a start and the full weight of the law should be applied to anyone involved. And exactly why are they illegal? Because they cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (2 legged animals). Just as the cruel practices in this live export trade cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (4 legged animals). So it, too, should be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 And exactly why are they illegal?Because they cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (2 legged animals). Just as the cruel practices in this live export trade cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (4 legged animals). So it, too, should be illegal. Are fish sentient? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Are fish sentient? Just asking. I can't comment...I don't know anything about the nervous system of a fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I can't comment...I don't know anything about the nervous system of a fish. Well, I don't know that much about the nervous system of a cow. Does that exclude me from any moral responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The animal rights movement ( which included liberating animals from Slaughter houses and experimental labs, some of which were not legal activities at that time) was the one that lead to the humane methods that's currently practiced in many countries of the world. So blaming them as hypocrites isn't right and if the status quoits had their way, all these progress would have stopped. Initially, the animal rights movement was demonized, but popular support pushed the governments to bring in rules and regulations to make the food/cosmetics/scientific labs and other industries more humane. Reading Peter Singer's Animal liberation would give us a new perspective of the movement. On the other hand, I feel that all animals need our empathy and fail to understand why some empathize with whales, but do not empathize with other sentient beings which are slaughtered for food and proven to be as intelligent. You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity.-Ralph Waldo Emerson And good work some of them do , I did say the hypocrisy of some . Rent a mob idiots with no real interest in any cause . Raiding a lab one day , leaving 5 dogs and 4 cats in a house alone for 4 or 5 days the next . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 And exactly why are they illegal?Because they cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (2 legged animals). Just as the cruel practices in this live export trade cause misery and suffering to sentient beings (4 legged animals). So it, too, should be illegal. Are you a veggie Skani? I think the causing misery and suffering to sentient beings is only part of the reason the drug trade etc. being illegal. There are many more reasons why. We are never going to agree about this and to put drug dealers on a higher moral ground than live export farmers is way over the top IMO. How many animals out of a massive shipment get treated like this?? If we see one being filmed on TV every 6 months out of millions that get shipped it's going to kick off the same protestations every time. The greenies aren't going to show the 99% of the time the animals are being killed and butchered correctly, no story in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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