Non contributory visa, you probably have made a contribution, more than you realise.

[gregblack]

What I meant was it's not compulsory to come to Australia it's personal choice, if you choose to come then you must follow Australia's demands, if you don't like Australia's demands then don't come, simple.

 

 

Oh I thought you had something profound to say, never mind.

[Que Sera Sera]

Oh I thought you had something profound to say, never mind.

Oh dear

[gregblack]

What I meant was it's not compulsory to come to Australia it's personal choice, if you choose to come then you must follow Australia's demands, if you don't like Australia's demands then don't come, simple.

 

 

Well at least you have expanded your view a little bit, but you have not read all of my post and only reacted to a bit you may have taken out of context

 

 

what will be will be

[gregblack]

Did you get the bit about taxes being a payback to society, past, present and future? My taxes paid for my education, but as a repayment. Over our lifetime we will all contribute to cover the costs of the services we receive during our lifetime as individuals. Obviously unequally, but that is the overall principle. I pay my taxes in the middle of my life but some of it will be for services I used as a child and some will be for services I will use as an old age pensioner when I pay less tax but need more care. If we were paying for the costs of services our children receive then people without children would pay lower taxes wouldn't they? But they don't.

 

Your theory that you should get a visa because you happened to spawn or give birth to a child that moved to Australia is illogical and also unworkable. What about feckless parents tht took no part in their child's upbringing? Should they get a visa too and how do you tell one from the other, who tests it?

 

 

 

 

Well you have said that you don't think your children should have to pay for your visa and you have not paid taxes to Australia during your working life. So that only leaves the Australian tax payer. You are even moaning about not getting benefits until you are 90 now. So you haven't paid taxes here, you don't want to pay for your visa, you don't think your children should help with your visa so you are essentially saying that the Australian tax payer should pick up the bill for you to live here whilst you and your children should not have to pay a penny.

 

"you are essentially saying that the Australian tax payer should pick up the bill for you to live here whilst you and your children should not have to pay a penny"

 

Where did I say that? you are not reading the whole item only seeing what you want to see and even then giving it your own meaning..

 

Perhaps Australia should pick up part of the bill and pay it to the UK goverment or better still to a third world country.

[gregblack]

I'm afraid your posts come across as being driven by self-interest.

 

For the record, Australian immigration policy is set by the Australian government. It is nothing to do with politicians in the UK. Australia gets nothing from allowing parents of permanent residents to migrate to Australia. That they offer a route at all is a bit of a bonus, and the contributory parent route seems reasonable to allow the process to be speeded up. The fee may seem a lot, but in the context of a typical mortgage, it is just another 10%. The likely cost to the state exceeds the cost of the contributory parent visa - end of life is expensive. You can promise to take private health cover, but the reality is that this is expensive and covers only a proportion of costs incurred. A parent visa holder will cost the state in health, even with the best of intentions.

 

The argument about having contributed to creating a skilled migrant is spurious. Many people have contributed, including teachers, youth group leaders, religious leaders, high earners (through taxation), policy makers, employers offering first jobs, etc. But Australia is not so much interested in what people have done, it is more interested in what they are going to do.

 

 

For the record, Australian immigration policy is set by the Australian government.

of course it is and I did not say different what I did say was that the UK goverment did not help by freezing pensions if you emigrate to Australia and other commonwealth countries

but they could get their collective heads together

[gregblack]

There is no doubt that Australia gets the benefit of skilled and trained immigrants without the cost of educating them but it is undoubtedly the case nobody is forcing anyone to go there. Australia wants to place a high value on PR and why ever not?

 

Then perhaps they should pay the country who did the training and education for this service

[Gbye grey sky]

You surely must see that, despite the blunt delivery, some very good points have been made to counter any assertion that the system is unfair to parents of immigrants. You said yourself that it was a tongue in cheek post in the first place but your posts since then indicate the opposite.

 

The point about the UK Government freezing the State Pension and therefore eroding its value significantly over time has more validity as it is a contributory scheme (supposedly) and contributors should be treated equally wherever they choose to live. That said, the rules are clear so we know what the consequences are if we move and retire in Australia and need to factor that in to the equation.

[AJ]

Then perhaps they should pay the country who did the training and education for this service

 

 

For goodness sake - stop being an idiot - you are no different to anyone else.

 

If you dont want to pay - you dont get to stay !!

[gregblack]

AJ

 

This was never about not wanting to pay, have you even read the posts, it started as a tongue in cheek comment but was immediatly turned into something more by the comments made, many out of context and many misleading

it still is a tongue in cheek comment and only meant to be taken as such. but it showed that nearly everyone who has made a contribution has not fully read or they have not understood what was being said.

 

I HAVE NEVER SAID I DO NOT WANT TO PAY

 

This is not my chosen visa but :-The only serious part that i brought into this is that the Aged parents visas 103 need to be reviewed as a 15 -20 year waiting list is not satisfactory, I believe that it would be better replaced by an onshore /offshore 804 bridging visa allowing parents to join their children without the burden on the Australian state, this is available if you are on shore and apply for an 804 and could take 15 years tp progress to a yeah or nay, most 65-70 year olds will be past caring,you need to read my poststhen

[dxboz]

Greg I said this a while back in this thread - I think your children should pay the contribution fee. You said I must be in top 5% income bracket - I can only wish! If my parent had wanted to come I would have been delighted to support them to try and repay all they had done for me. If I did not have the cash I would have taken a loan. You say they might have children and could not afford it well that will be their choice as to if and when they have them. Let's not forget that your children are not here for the benefit of Australia but for the benefit of themselves as we all are. If they did not have a better life here they would not have stayed. They will also get the benefit of living in this country as a resident and if they have children they will also benefit.

 

I also do not think overseas parents should benefit from the Australian taxpayer just because they CHOSE to have children obviously for their own benefit.

 

Sorry Greg don't believe your argument is right.

[AJ]

AJ

 

This was never about not wanting to pay, have you even read the posts, it started as a tongue in cheek comment but was immediatly turned into something more by the comments made, many out of context and many misleading

it still is a tongue in cheek comment and only meant to be taken as such. but it showed that nearly everyone who has made a contribution has not fully read or they have not understood what was being said.

 

I HAVE NEVER SAID I DO NOT WANT TO PAY

 

This is not my chosen visa but :-The only serious part that i brought into this is that the Aged parents visas 103 need to be reviewed as a 15 -20 year waiting list is not satisfactory, I believe that it would be better replaced by an onshore /offshore 804 bridging visa allowing parents to join their children without the burden on the Australian state, this is available if you are on shore and apply for an 804 and could take 15 years tp progress to a yeah or nay, most 65-70 year olds will be past caring,you need to read my poststhen

 

Well for goodness sake stop whinging about it! You dont even live here yet and your a whinging pom!

[gregblack]

Greg I said this a while back in this thread - I think your children should pay the contribution fee. You said I must be in top 5% income bracket - I can only wish! If my parent had wanted to come I would have been delighted to support them to try and repay all they had done for me. If I did not have the cash I would have taken a loan. You say they might have children and could not afford it well that will be their choice as to if and when they have them. Let's not forget that your children are not here for the benefit of Australia but for the benefit of themselves as we all are. If they did not have a better life here they would not have stayed. They will also get the benefit of living in this country as a resident and if they have children they will also benefit.

 

I also do not think overseas parents should benefit from the Australian taxpayer just because they CHOSE to have children obviously for their own benefit.

 

Sorry Greg don't believe your argument is right.

 

 

 

Ah it was never meant to be serious argument I don't really believe it all myself but it shows that a difference of perspective can give a different view, I do not believe that there is much wrong with the immi system except perhaps the waiting times on a 103 or 804 visa and these need to be looked at now.

I am rather surprised people took it so seriously when I made it clear it was a tongue in cheek argument, but I suppose that the skip read blogs and missed bits and pieces some parts of the argument are valid but no one expects entry for nothing and standards have to be maintained.

I had this discussion in pub a few weeks a go with an employer who's newly qualified trainee was emigrating and he was feeling rather aggrieved at the cost of putting him through college etc.Being an ex shop steward and naturally argumental I try to see things from both sides so I thought I would float the question and points that were made to me for a reaction.

I never thought I was on a winner, it did prove one thing to me though and that is a lot of people only see what they want and not what is written.

 

Probably time this thread was trashed now as nothing constructive has or can come from it

Greg

 

If I can not afford it I would not come, I have a comfortable life in the uk but I would not wish to put pressure on my Australian family (now 5) however I can afford it so it will happen at some point in the not to distant future.

I had to mention the 104/804 waiting times for a reaction but none was received.

I guess I will have to start a different thread to get a reaction

[dxboz]

Greg these Visas take so long as they can only accept so many per year without overloading our health system - does it make sense now? I know it must seem bad to have such a long waiting time when people want to come but there is reasoning behind it.

[gregblack]

Greg these Visas take so long as they can only accept so many per year without overloading our health system - does it make sense now? I know it must seem bad to have such a long waiting time when people want to come but there is reasoning behind it.

 

 

I was not going to add anything further to this thread but what percent of applications for 103 aged parents die before they are granted, seems like a money cow that I would advise against

Greg

[gregblack]

Well for goodness sake stop whinging about it! You dont even live here yet and your a whinging pom!

 

 

One day a whinging pom! will be racist , I would rather be called a grumpy old pommy git

[noworriesmate]

Thread closed at request of OP

 

NWM