Sydneyhorn

Back in the UK for just over 3 months now after 13 years in Australia. Was never that unhappy in Oz - we had just done everything we wanted to do there and felt it was a good time to "come home". So far it has been brilliant. Our son has settled into school far better than we imagined and the weather has not been as bad as we thought (it is nice that the days are starting to get longer now though). No shock coming home. We miss our friends and some things we had in Oz but nothing is pulling us back there yet. We are not saying that we would never go back but I think if (or probably when) we move again it would probably be to another part of the UK or another country. No regrets about going and no regrets about coming back.

Spot on surfndirt. The average Oz monthly mortgage payment is $1800 (according to the last census in 2011). The latest UK figures show an average UK monthly mortgage payment is 494 pounds ($760). I think this underlines how expensive it is to live in (parts) of Australia.

Ok – for those of you that don’t like stats…..look away now! First of all the facts (I’ve used an exchange rate of dollar to pound of 0.65) : Oz weekly average household income = $1,832: Oz weekly average household expenditure = $1,236.00 Source: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20Features~Household%20income,%20expenditure%20and%20wealth~193 Uk weekly average household income = 699 pounds ($1075.385) Uk weekly average household expenditure = 474 pounds ($729) Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/family-spending/family-spending/family-spending-2011-edition/general-nugget.html (download the pdf) Now the analysis:- The income to expenditure ratio for the UK and Australia is about the same (about 1.48). The Oz to UK average income has a ratio of 1.695. So (here’s the important bit) to achieve the same standard of living in Oz as you do in the UK (assuming you are moving to an area that is comparable to where you live now), multiply your income by 1.69 e.g : If you have a household income of 25000 pounds (after tax) you need to earn $65189 (after tax – assuming an exchange rate of GBP 0.65 to the AUD). Now the important thing is to remember that this is for a comparable location to where you are now e.g. London to Sydney. If you are planning to live in one of the major cities in Oz from a cheaper area in the UK then you will probably need to increase your income by a greater factor to retain the same standard of living. Sorry if I’ve bored anyone but I’m a data analyst by trade to I enjoy playing with numbers J BTW - the pay difference ratio (based on the average) between the UK and Oz is currently 1.7 (not the 2.2 often quoted).

Well, as quoted by others, the figures in the article are averages. It just so happens that my outgoings roughly match the $2000 per week quoted. The big difference is my mortgage is around $900 per week. It is high but actually matches, almost exactly, the average rental cost for my area for similar properties. So if you take the extra $500 off the $1140 you see I only need to account for around $600. Again, as quoted elsewhere, this is chewed up very quickly by things like school expenses, household maintenance, car running costs etc etc. We are not living an extravagant lifestyle. My son goes to public school and we only have one (8 year old) car between us. We do eat out normally once or twice a week but only at moderately priced restaurants ($20 per main course kind of thing). Let me make something clear though. I am not anti-Australia. Quite the opposite, I've spent 12 years here and it has been a great part of my life. I just wanted to make sure people were aware of a simple but very accurate (I have worked with CommSec and their data is very good) way of demonstrating the high cost of living here now. Of course people can live quite happily on a lot less - even in Sydney. But if you do want the "classic pommy dream" of a life in Sydney, near a beach and/or in a nice suburb, it doesn't come cheap. In answer to your other question, no I didn't come from London. I did come from the South East and when we arrived Australia (including Sydney) was "as cheap as chips". An Australian friend has just moved to Chelsea in London and was shocked how cheap it is compared to what she thought it would be. It just illustrates how the balance has changed so much in the last 12 years. As I've said in previous posts before, I would never discourage anyone from coming here. Quite the opposite in fact, migrating is still a very rewarding experience and Australia is a great country to live in. But I would STRONGLY warn them to do their financial homework first and tailor their expectation accordingly.

For those of you that missed this article:- http://www.news.com.au/money/cost-of-living/how-australian-households-spend-over-100k-a-year/story-fnagkbpv-1226474838472 I'm sure you can live for less here but those figures are close to what I spend now. People need to be realistic about these things before they leave the UK.

Sounds perfect! It's not difficult to feel like you are on holiday when you are on the Sunshine Coast And you are right, you can have a cheap fun day out even in Oz Yeah - there is always someone worse off than us. Don't beat yourself up for being sad though - most of us can relate to how you are feeling. I think you are being very sensible in giving yourself a few months and seeing how you feel then. Whatever happens, at least you have given it a go. You won't die wondering now!

Hi tfarrell Everyone is different but I think most migrants go through bad times at some stage or another. What has helped me in the past is to take a step back from the big picture and find something small to focus on for a little while. It might be something like a trip to somewhere new near where you live. Plan the day out and forget about the job hunting and other worries for a bit. Pretend you are on holiday (it's not so difficult now that the weather is picking up) and relax and let some of the stress go. I find that doing that helps me cope with the bigger stuff. If things don't work out (and I think you owe yourself a bit of time before making that call) at least you will have some good memories of Australia to take "home" with you.

I agree - when my wife and I came to Oz in 2000 it was far less of a risk than it is now. The exchange rate was in our favour and the cost of living in Oz was cheaper than in the UK. However, I still think that if people "need" to experience living overseas then they should. But they need to be realistic. "Hope for the best but prepare for the worst" is a good motto to adopt. Also be very sure before you move everything over. If you have your own home in the UK then consider keeping it and renting it out. It may mean that you can only rent in Oz but it does give you some security if things don't work out. There is a danger that people spend too much time playing the "what if" game and never do anything. I feel very sorry for those people that do end up back in the UK and worse off after trying their luck in Oz. But would those people be mentally and emotionally worse off if they had never tried? I have so many friends that regret never giving it a go and now they feel "stuck" in the UK because they are too old to get a working visa now. It is a tough one but I think we just have to go for it and then deal with whatever life throws up and try not to dwell on our regrets.

I try and avoid being negative when posting on here but I'm afraid you are definitely dreaming if you think you are going to find land and build a home in Oz for $300k In Sydney you will find it hard to buy just the land at that price and, if you do, it will be a long way from the city centre or a beach. Add to that the cost of building the property and paying rent while you do, I would estimate at least a minimum of $750k would be needed. The whole standard of living argument is really difficult to give a definitive answer on. There are parts of Oz that are a lot cheaper than others - just like the UK. If you are moving from Kensington in London to the middle of nowhere in NSW you will probably find the property prices are pretty reasonable! But if you are planning to live near a city, in a "nice" suburb Oz is VERY expensive both to rent and buy. The $70k salary quoted is not going to be enough to get you that dream home. To rent a reasonable house in the suburb I live is around $900 a week now. After tax and the medicare levy, your net income on a $70k salary would be $52,953 - that is $1018.33 per week! If there are two of you on $70k then you might just be able to do it but not with only one. Also, having spent a couple of months in the UK last year, there is no doubt that both goods and services are much cheaper and, on the whole, much better in the UK. This is partly down to the economies of scale. 60+million customers on a small island is much easier and cheaper to service than 22 million on a vast continent. I would not attempt to put anyone off from coming to Oz or following any dream they have, but please do not delude yourself about the realities of living here. If you are realistic about what you can afford, and your financial standard of living when you get here before you leave, you will be less likely to be shocked or disappointed. Australia has a lot to offer and I think the sacrifice of your standard of living will be worth it for the life experience but just be prepared.

Hi exiled in Wales, I think (and it seems to be backed up by the stats) that very few people return to the UK for negative reasons (e.g. they hate Australia!). My wife and I came out here 12 years ago and had our son here (he's now 8). We have made the decision to return to the UK simply because we have "done" Australia and now we want to spend time back in the UK, especially while our son and his grandparents are all young enough to appreciate and get to know each other! In my experience there are 3 types of people in the world :- - Those that are totally satisfied with where they are and what they are doing. These are the people that stay in their home town and have no desire to move. I envy these people! - Then there are those that want to experience new places and new ways of life. This is my wife and I. We are returning to the UK but will we stay there for good? We never say never and we never say forever either! - Then there are those people that are not happy where they are but always come up with some reason not to move. There are plenty on this forum who talk about moving to Australia but "not now". I have lots of friends back home like that who always say how lucky I am living here but, when I ask them why they don't do it themselves, they come up with some (normally lame) excuse about why the time is not right and "may be they will one day". Some of them have simply left it too long and couldn't get a working visa now even if they wanted one. I think those people in the last category will die with the most regrets. Sure, it doesn't always work out for those people that do come out here but you will never know if you don't try. I certainly would never class anyone who moves between countries as a "failure" whatever other poster say. Do all the practical preparation that you can and then just go for it. And remember that nothing has to be forever.

I assume you mean hypothermia as hyperthermia is when the body overheats! Or was this a very hot day in Scarbourough :wink: If you are purely looking at temperatures then obviously Oz is going to win. But Sydney just had one of the wettest summers on record and there were not that many good beach days this year, especially at the weekends. Also, the summer days are a lot shorter here. I really miss those (rare I know!) warm summer days in the UK when the light evenings go on and on. I wouldn't return to the UK for the weather but if anyone is planning to come to Oz just for the sun then they are going to be disappointed. As I look out of the window of my office here in central Sydney the dark rain clouds are gathering again.....

I assume that you are actively trying to leave the UK for Australia. What are YOUR "academically definable" reasons for doing so? Having spent 12 years in Australia the "vibe" for me has turned pretty flat. I can't define a specific moment when it happened, or a reason for it, but its happened. I enjoyed living in Sydney and, before we came here, I could never have imagined being bored here. But we now feel that we have done it all. If you are happy doing the same things over and over again and can sit on a beach for hours, then perhaps it is the place for you but we have had enough. And other peoples OPINIONS, VIEWS and EXPERIENCES are always welcome and useful even if they are not quantifiable or I don't happen to share them! Back on topic...... We were back in the UK for two months last year and we noticed : The long long long summer days Europe right on our doorstep - especially the glorious week we spent in Brittany The low cost of just about everything compared to Oz For me - the BEER! Where we live in the UK (the South coast) there was some noticeable signs of the GFC but it really wasn't that bad The gorgeous OPEN countryside (South Downs) right on our doorstep Bird song - the Australia birds are great to look at but they are no match to the beautiful songs of the UK summer birds. I was also hugely impressed by the train service to London from where we live. Off-peak fares were VERY low and when we got to London there was so much free stuff that the days out cost us next to nothing. Even just wandering around London and just looking at the magnificent architecture was a JOY. There are many things wrong with the UK, as there are with Australia but for me the UK is the place to be. Sorry I can't get you some measurable metrics for you to judge my opinions on Helchops but there you are

As petals has said, there are many reasons for people wanting to live elsewhere. Personally, me and my wife wanted to live and work elsewhere. We'd had a wonderful opportunity a year before where we spent a few months living in Norway and that had wetted our appetites to the idea of exploring and living in a new culture. And yes, Australia IS a different culture. Of course you can come here on holiday but, until you live here, you don't realise how different things are. And that is exactly what me and my wife wanted. Now we have a son and have really done all we want to do in Australia we want to go home. Nothing in our mind is forever so I think that there is a real possibility that we will try living elsewhere one day (we are already talking about the cliché year in France in the not too distant future!). But for now we both want time at home with our families, especially our aging parents. I think that you really need to try and understand why you want to move. Personally i don't think it is enough to be "fed up" with the UK. Australia has it's own problems......especially for migrants. If you want to try something new, to live in a different culture that shares the same language and some of the same history, then Australia is an excellent choice. If you are looking for a nirvana where all your problems and issues suddenly disappear then you will be disappointed!

It is difficult to say for certain. I never thought I would miss half the things that I miss from the UK.....I didn't even particularly like Prawn Cocktail flavoured crisps until I got here and then I craved them constantly! I will genuinely miss the friends I have made here. I will also miss Sydney itself. I still get a little buzz some days when I travel over the Harbour Bridge on the way to and from work. The sight across the habour, with the Opera House in the foreground, on a sunny day can still take my breath away.

I am looking forward to so many of those things people have listed but most of all I'm looking forward to my son spending more time with, and getting to know, his grandparents while he is still young enough to want to.