desreb

I'm watching this closely too; we're currently selling our UK house with the intent to buy in Oz in 2-3 years, so that we have the flexibility to transfer GBP to AUD at a point when the exchange rates are good, or look like they're going to get worse. It seems hairy either way. We have a friend who's in FX for a Big4 AU Bank, and she seemed to think the GBP would lose another 10% against the AUD last time we asked her around a month ago. However, we see inflation heading up in UK and talk of a rate rise, which boosted GBP just on the sniff of a rise. And then the RBA wants the AUD to be lower, and there's little prospect of rate rises in AU - but the economy looks pretty solid, it seems. On the flipside, UK just reported lowest retail figures for 8 years, which could send them back down again, and if Brexit ends up as a no deal, that could punish the pound further. FX rates put everything you do to save and earn money into sharp perspective, don't they? If you have a £500k house in the UK, then right now you can buy AUD854k, which is somewhere far out west Sydney. If somehow it went to 2:1, you'd have AUD1m, and then you could be looking at a ocean-view house somewhere on the outskirts with a large mortgage. If it went back down to 1.5:1, you're looking at far west, or a two-bed unit closer to the city. Life-changing stuff.

Hi again, My wife and I moved to Oz from UK in 2011, were AU residents 2011-16, and citizens 2015-16. We're now back in the UK, and belatedly filing our 2015-16 AU Tax Return. Since we were renting out our UK house, around half-way through our AU residence, we paid off enough of the mortgage that we started receiving a moderate net income from the house that was still well within the personal allowance. All the time we were in AU, we were declaring the net income on our AU tax return, and paying tax on it. So - I was doing the 2016 return, and I had forgotten how we had declared the house the previous year. I did some googling, and came to the conclusion that we should declare it in the UK. HMRC general advice on dual taxation UK - AU dual taxation convention Specifically the text is: ARTICLE 6 Income from real property 1 Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from real property may be taxed in the Contracting State in which the real property is situated. 2 The term "real property" shall have the meaning which it has under the law of the Contracting State in which the property is situated. The term shall in any case include: (a) a lease of land or any other interest in or over land; (b) property accessory to real property; So - it seems we should have been assessed for tax on it in the UK primarily, in which case it would be within the UK personal allowance, and no tax paid. Hence no tax paid in AU either? This HMRC consultation from 2014 about removing the personal allowance for non-residents appears to confirm the case, by virtue of the fact the consultation sees it as a loophole that HMG want to close! So, my questions are: Am I reading this right? Can I declare it on my UK tax return, and pay nothing on my AU tax return? If we've been doing this for 2011-14, can we re-file previous years' returns to reclaim the tax paid in those years, if significant? How far back should tax be reassessed (as I think we were originally claiming a deduction on a net loss on the house of mortgage over rental income during around 2011 to ?) Many thanks! Damo

Hi! We recently flew back with Qantas, and managed to take around 150kg of luggage between 2 adults and a 1 & 4yo for no excess fees. Qantas offer 30kg per adult, compared to 23kg for some others, plus up to 4 baby items each. Since I had gold status, my own allowance was 46kg, and the baby items are counted, not weighed, hence the high total. They also allow any number of items, so we took 6 cheap hold-alls ($22 each) from Target between us. In short, you may find a huge cumulative difference by looking at all the airline policies. They also often allow much larger allowances to/from the US, so maybe you can go up to double each if you take that long route. Finally, we bought 30 vacuum-pack bags on eBay for around $25. They at least increased the amount of clothes we fit in each bag by around 30%. As such, we found we didn't need any fast shipping other than our baggage. Although with young kids and 15 items, the fact I'm 2m tall and broad shouldered helped at the airport. Failing all that... what we did on the way out here several years ago, was use FedEx. They actually reject shipping personal effects, so we worked around that by shipping 3 boxes of clothes and declaring them as "second hand clothes for a gift" with a total $5 value. If you put a high value, you have to pay customs duty on them, so we took the risk of losing the lot, but we took that risk and it meant we received 3 boxes of clothes, 2 days after arriving, for only £200 in cost. Finally - the official method is of course to use the same freight company as your bulk shipped goods. They do offer air freight, typically at around 3-5x the cost of shipped freight. Cheers D

Just to close this off: I did try registering at our local GP without the passport. They accepted my passport and the girls' (Australian) birth certificates, plus utility bill, without noting Ellie was not technically British. That is to say she IS technically British - their mum is, which means they are by default - but since Mum wasn't there and I didn't present her ID, they couldn't know that. Cheers Bristolman, all

Yeah, but as you say, they've lived there before so they're in the system. She's not :-) As it turns out, we don't have enough proof of address yet until our first bills come through, so we're waiting for that to register. The passport application is in process and we should have it afterwards. I might try registering without it first to see if they ask.

That's A&E, but I understand that for GP and specialist appointments they'll expect to find her in a database of eligible patients, and she won't be there. For example, she has no UK birth certificate, no NI number, and no GP. To register with the GP I understand they need ID for adults and Birth Certificates for kids.

Well, we need to get our daughter into specialist medical appointments asap to continue her care from AU, so it seems the passport is going to be urgently necessary since her UK visa specifies no access to public funds.

Thanks - we have our express passport application appointment in London on Monday!

Yep, am doing - thanks :-)

Ok - as she was born to British parents, she appears to be a de facto British citizen. So no need to apply for citizenship by descent, as she simply is one, we just apply for the passport. I can see the reasoning behind the position we find ourselves in now - although she is a citizen, we can't prove it until we get a passport. Apparently it would be easier for Border Force if my Italian passport had been current, as she could have entered with me as an EU citizen by descent, identified with her Australian passport.

I would presume there's a difference due to one of her being over a year old, or being outside Australia. We didn't pay £1000 last time.

Hi all, We recently moved back to the UK with our two kids aged 1 and 4, both of whom were born in Australia, but only the first we went through a UK citizenship application for. In the stress and effort of the move we forgot about the fact our younger never had UK citizenship. As we should have expected, this led to the uncomfortable experience of being told at UK passport control that she couldn't enter to reside permanently in the UK. After some discussion, she was issued a Leave to Enter visa valid for 6 months, but without recourse to public funds. This is a huge problem, as she's deaf, and most of our research before moving was into the UK therapy programmes available for her, and how quickly we can get her into them. Looking at the gov.uk website, it seems we would have to pay £1000 for an application to gain her citizenship by descent. I assume this is not fast, particularly at Christmas. For our eldest, we simply applied for her UK passport and her citizenship was confirmed in the process. So - now that we've made this costly omission, does anyone have any suggestions on how we can get her UK citizenship as quickly as possible so as to get her into both council and NHS healthcare programmes? She's also now just turned one, being born mid-November last year. Many thanks! D

Well, we've booked the flights, and AirBnB for 5 days each side. We've done the high lead-time things first - got the cats their rabies jab, booked the flights, accomodation and rental car, and given notice on the house here. Now we have to decide and pay on pet transport and shipping next, plus book check-out cleaners.

From what I understand, it's split according to when you land in the country. So if you sell before you arrive in Oz, then the ATO need not consider it at all.

Yeah, that seems to be the best approach. I guess we'll give notice on the house here and use that as the guide for the rental

Hi all, We're planning to move back to the UK in December, as I now have redundancy due in AU and a job offer in the UK for early next year. We're a couple in our early forties with two kids, 1 and 4, we're renting here, and we have our home vacant and unfurnished in the UK. I'm building up a checklist, but the one thing I can't get my head around is the logistics of the days around the moving day - most problematically, living furniture and appliances in either location, and how to sell or dispose of them on the day. We'd likely sell almost everything here, and buy again in the UK. But considering we need beds and basic furnishings until the day we leave, and then beds and basic furnishings on the day we arrive, and we need to vacate here beforehand, how do people manage those logistics? I guess we could rent an AirBnB or hotel for the last/first days, but at what point does that become less cost-effective and disruptive than simply disposing of everything? Thanks! Des

Hi,We're looking to move back to the UK later this year after 5 years away - perhaps in early December. As such, we'd be AU tax-resident just under 50% of the year, but UK tax-resident less than 50% of the UK tax year. I'm looking through the myriad of UK SRT residency tests, and no doubt Australia has its own too. I feel I need to look at the wood before the trees - I will seek tax advice for the detail, but I'm trying to work out what the general principle is between the two countries. In a fairly average case - from full time employment in one country with all family, etc. to the same in the other country, with broadly simliar income tax brackets, etc. and no huge CGT or other liabilities, what is the underlying principle - Does each country take the time you spend in each according to their tax year and apply their tax percentages for that period - Or do the two tax regimes grapple as to whose residency you fall under, the accountant makes a determination, and then you pay tax in that country but receive relief for tax paid in the other country? Currently, it feels like our decision and timing for going back in the UK is of a sensitivity that we'll end up with conditions such as doing so only travelling West, under the second full moon following the winter equinox, and only walking on alternate zebra crossing stripes, otherwise we'll lose our worldy savings and have to pay every penny of income to the government for the next 100 years. For example, the UK Gov offers GBP8000 tax allowance for relocation expenses, which I assume you would need to be considered UK tax resident from the point that you moved back in order to realise! Thanks, D

Well bobths and wattsy, your stories were very familiar. We're in almost exactly the same boat, and going through the same decision. I won't post our story now - in part, I don't need to, it's the same - but I'll watch this thread closely and share our own at some point.

Thanks Alan. I assume one of my mistakes you're referring to is that the UK CGT gain can only be offset against an AU CGT loss, including in future years, but it cannot be offset against AU Income Tax. I did have that as an outstanding question and was corrected on that. This does change my outlook, as I haven't made a CGT loss (and don't intend to).

Hi Alan - I have taken advice already, and so was sharing a summary of that for any others in similar circumstances in the future. I do still have some open questions with the accountant which I'm waiting for an answer on.

Thanks for the advice Ken, Alan. It does look like we can offset UK CGT paid against AU Income Tax when we sell, if we stay here. I'm currently looking into whether we can actually claim a loss since April 2015 as the house has decreased slightly in value since then. Of course, the way the market is at the moment (I love the way property and stockbroking get to use words such as "soft" and "correction"), there is a considerable risk of not completing before AU tax kicks in at the 6 year mark, at which point we'd have to cease leasing if if we stayed in Oz, until it sold.

Ok, it seems that we are liable for UK CGT tax on the house for the period since April 2015, but we can offset that against our Australian tax paid (I think/hope income tax, as we have no AU CGT)

Likewise, and it probably helps maintain a credit rating there, should you ever need access to one.

I found a product called SA2000 - I assume because it was created 16 years ago. It's basically an awe-inspiring beast of an Excel spreadsheet, but laid out similarly to the self assessment sheet. It sounds daunting, but once you get started, it's no harder than the SA forms. There's macros and buttons everywhere, and you can try it out and then pay for a code to submit online. It's evidently a labour of love by some accountant whose entire life has been wielding magic in Excel, but it works, it's cheap, it doesn't need installing or using any other time than tax time, and it's reliably there and updated year after year.

Hi, We moved from the UK in Feb 2011, and were considering moving back when our tenancy both here and there comes up for renewal in mid September. We've been leasing it in the UK, and never bought in Oz. I had remembered the six year rule for primary residence, and was looking it up since we come to that point in Feb if we decide not to return to the UK. While I was looking, I checked UK tax law and was alarmed to see that selling our UK house after October 2016 may no longer attract UK tax relief as a primary residence if we remain abroad. It might then get into a complex series of requirements about returning to live and work in the UK to claim residence in order to achieve a tax-free sale. Is my reading of this correct? Thanks, D