davlap

Hi N1ck as nobody has replied, it says it all. Brisbane is not easy for IT generally and application support is too generic unless you have specialised skills Finance is fairly generic, I worked for a year at AMP in Sydney in finance enterprise level support as SME. I have been trying from Melbourne and only had one phone interview in 18 months. I see you have Sydney in your profile, so some people say you should leave address off as it just presents another hurdle, but any interview might have logistical problems. I am generally the bringer of doom and gloom if you read my previous posts in this thread. Trying not to get miserable about it so don't reply so much. Been a year since my last IT job and mostly applying in Melbourne without success. Currently working in Coles as a casual!

I hear what you are saying and agency bad practice does not surprise me. Unfortunately the applications I mentioned were direct to companies.

Hi user9999 I feel your pain (have posted a few times in this forum, no need to repeat). I am in Melbourne and the number of applications probably applies here too. However, the quality of those is unknown, as it is so easy to apply these days. The problem is, you get lost in the noise. I spent some time researching and have asked agencies I talk to if they use automatic screening (lots of articles on LinkedIn), but they appear not to in Aus. However, the 2 minute bin it rules do still apply (not going to list any they are fairly public). You have some pretty standard experience (I mean in a good way), but also it is fairly generic and may not stand out. You are going about it in a good way regarding the networking (something I don't really do). Advertised jobs probably offer the worst chance of success. I have spent a lot of time (of which I have plenty) researching on the 'how to' for cover letter, resume and tried a couple of different ways. But usually the advice is US based, or conflicting (eg put all experience, keep it short, use buzz words, don't use them). If an agent or recruiter can be bothered to talk to me they do tend to say my application was good enough and usually only suggest a couple of changes (again sometimes conflicting with other advice). I am also seeing a new worrying trend where as soon as I apply I get an instant reject email. This has directly referred to my age (see earlier post), but now I have got a couple saying ' we have exceeded our quota of applications'. I long for the good old days when the companies had to do the chasing, it would be nice to be able to treat them with the same lack of respect and consideration. We are just moving house, so taking a break and hoping in a couple of weeks I can find inspiration to get back into it after a recharge of batteries. Just remember, it only takes one.

mogthecat, just having a review of service bus etc. My last role in the UK was working on UK TV license system for Capita. We developed a hub and spoke system for passing data around the core system components - legacy front end (call centre - db2), Oracle CRM, siebel CMS (campaign management and analytics). I worked mainly on the hub, Informatica ETL tool (strange choice, but I was contracting with it at the time). I even got roped into high level design (whipping boy / fall guy for the architects!). This included designing a common interface to the systems, both current and future. So probably a precursor to enterprise system bus. What fantastic, relevant experience that would be now. That was 10 years ago and when first coming over couldn't get an Informatica/ETL role. Main reason why I stopped being analyst/programmer. Depressingly I lack the confidence now. But I had a look at Tibco and will delve deeper.

Hi Chortlepuss I agree and believe that is a pretty good assessment. I did chuckle (do people still do that?) when looking at the job spec: We like to hire people who thrive within our set of core values: ... Straight up, no bull

Hi mogthecat, I think so too !! I think you are correct in most of your assessment, but I probably lack the confidence to push myself further into more senior roles until I prove myself in a role I can do. As you say, with the amount of experience I have recruiters may wonder why I am not looking for senior/lead/consulting roles. I also believe on-shore application support is a dying career due to offshoring / cloud / 'everything' as a service. I have applied for a couple of positions with these type of companies and did get an interview with BMC I don't believe I have mentioned solution architect experience. I have worked with architects (earlier post in this thread?). Service bus looks interesting (new words for an established set of processes?) and I will look into that. As for getting Tibco, or other exams or certificates, there is so much choice out there and is a difficult decision. Without a clear goal or path to follow, I am undecided and will only proceed if I am sure it is something I want to do and am capable of. I don't like selling myself with skills I am not entirely comfortable with (part of the problem with up-selling myself) . I will look at Tibco, I have also been looking at getting ServiceNow or other ITSM/ITIL tools which are offered as demos, maybe going that route (with ITIL certification). I am good at looking/evaluating/improving what is there rather than come up with the new ideas (not a blank sheet of paper type of person as I mentioned before) Right now I am pretty disillusioned and considering a break for a while. 18 months of banging my head against the wall is leaving me feeling flat and I have lost heart and direction. I don't want this to come across if I do get to that interview. Don't think it does at the moment, I do think I interview quite well when I get the chance. I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my profile and post your assessment. It does give a needed boost. I will take the advice on board and maybe act on it in the coming months and might get back to you for further advice or discusion. Cheers

How this for blatant age discrimination. One of my applications was rejected within about 2 mins (direct company). There were no age details in the CV, just past 10 years of experience. I sent an email asking why a decision was made so quickly: "Sure … pretty simple … we have a very young team with the most senior being 25 and having 8 months experience. I’ve been asked to pitch for a person who would be junior to him. Sorry I can’t help" I then replied: "Ok, thanks for the reply. Would have been good if you could have made it clear on the job ad" And received: "Understood but if overly prescriptive people don’t apply and often applicants don’t read the ad. Frustrating for you I know." I don't think they do know. It is just inconsiderate and arrogant. And before anybody suggests, no I won't report them.

Hi GinaIsMrsPOB, great advice. I did put cloud on my list at first. I have looked into it and learned the terminology etc, but more on the provider/support side rather than architecture/solution side. I tend to put limits on myself and only sell the real skills that I can offer. Probably more a follower than a leader. For sure I am not a blank sheet type of person coming up with ideas. I have however worked closely with solution architects and written high level designs in a past life. I have been SME for complex solutions. This is because I show that I am capable above and beyond the role I get taken on for. I am good at collaboration and working with other teams, as I have worked across the whole SDLC (if that still exists anymore - Agile another of my learning subjects!!). I get on with anybody and everybody and being a contractor for such a long time means I have a thick skin and can take the strange behavior (dare I say xenophobia of the Aussie workforce). But I come in low and work my way up, rather than come in higher up (lack of confidence probably) I know it sounds a bit of a whinge, but just not sure I have the heart to push myself too high and hard. Since being in Oz for just about 7 years, I have had two lots of 18 months looking for a job (and still looking). I don't want to sell myself into some high profile pressured role - even though I would be happy to work in that kind of environment once I prove myself. I have applied for jobs I would really love to do and know I could be good at it. I think my cv and cover letters are ok. I do ask agencies / recruiters what they think and feedback is always positive. I think I am missing a sellable skill. This is why on this forum, I try to counter the doom and gloom (I am guilty of I know), by telling people if they have marketable skills, there is not much to worry about. Your suggestion draws on a set of skills I don't really have objective evidence or experience of. I'm not sure a company would put their trust in in somebody unproven UNLESS you have the appropriate skills to sell it (and it looks like you probably do). I came to Aus considering a career change, but couldn't think of anything (my fault - nothing to do with Aus). I missed the environment and wanted to get back into it. I ended up in a great place after a few years, working on contract in Sydney at AMP, but came back to Melbourne after a year as OH didn't want to move. Since then, somebody up high seems to have taken a dislike to me and is punishing me for making such a stupid decision.

Trillium enterprise data quality software. When we came to Aus it took me 18 months to get a job in vendor support for Trillium. A US company - AU provided global support during US out of hours. This was after 15 years as analyst programmer in the UK in ETL and data warehousing. I was contracting and never out of work in that time. I kind of lost the skill/urge to program code since coming here. 2 years without work from the time we started the process of coming here took the edge of my skills and the appetite I guess. So now work in application support. I am good at reading and understanding almost any code, but not so good at writing it ! So my skill set is vanilla - Unix, Oracle (not at dba/system level) and losing out to the cloud and offshore/outsourcing. Plus as I mentioned, of more mature age which doesn't help much. Reskill I hear you all cry. Have thought long and hard about what to do and tried looking at a few things - service delivery (ITIL/ITSM), big data etc. But I don't think certificates, paper or classroom skills help much without real experience to back it up. Have looked at some self start businesses like SEO for income, but never really felt it was my thing and too many cheap sources like India / Phillipines etc doing it for $5 an hour. I have always been good at what I do and don't really want to go into something half arsed. Like I say, have lost my way a bit after 18 months of rejection (or more specifically, silence).

A well articulated post. I worked in a major financial company in Sydney. As a contractor, I was plonked in a corner and nobody spoke to me for a few months. Ironically very multicultural and also lots of outsourced teams. However these were mostly Indians and all sat together and ate lunch together etc and hardly engaged with other staff outside the job remit. I had a niche skill which was the only reason I got the gig. Unfortunately hardly any Aus companies use the software and now I can't get a job (as told in a few of my previous posts). Being of a more mature age, feel like giving up, both in a career sense and an Aus sense.

If you are well experienced, this is unlikely. You will then get the 'too much experience' reply (if you get any reply at all). In other cases I have had agencies telling me the company is worried I will jump ship as soon as a better offer comes along. Doesn't matter what you tell them. Of course (to me anyway) salaries on offer are dropping. When I am asked what salary range I expect, I now give a range, with the bottom figure about $20k below what I would said have a couple of years ago. Anyway, well done Swamps!

To all you guys in the UK, don't be too quick to read doom and gloom into some of these replies (mine included). If you have current skills in demand and in the major industries (banks, health, cloud etc )you should be OK. I am older and have a vanilla set of skills (unix, oracle, application support) that are still around, but probably more subject to offshoring. Some big banks and other organisations use offshore companies heavily and you need something above the average. In the UK I had ETL in a data warehousing environment when DW were all the rage. Through the recessions I was never out of work. Stopped doing programming (as an analyst /programmer), big mistake. To be honest the move to Oz was going to be a new start. Unfortunately we just got back into the 9-5 grind. I also realised I am a sad old git and have no hobbies or ideas that I can pursue for income. Those who list specific skills, check out http://www.seek.com.au but just be aware it is always easier to have a quick glance, see a few jobs and think its all good. Often things come in cycles, you see similar jobs and then they don't appear. I suspect there is often one job and a lot of agencies. So like anything else do some proper research. To me, LinkedIn is not used anywhere near as much as in the UK / US. I made a real effort with it for a month or so, but got fed up being the only one to post or comment. I did get a couple of good contacts, but nothing from it. The Brisbane specific groups are virtually dead. But as has been said often, In Oz word of mouth is probably the best way to get a decent role, I would say more so than the UK. I cannot believe some of the attitudes I came across, but just do a good job and after a year they might start to talk to you! Unfortunately I am crap at networking and with my lack of any in demand skills feel like its getting worse for me. I have done some online courses such as Udemy, but don't feel they are of any value without experience or certification. If anybody wants to look at my profile / connect, feel free http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidlapinit Stop press - more helpful feedback on the latest rejection (al least I got an email): We have thoroughly reviewed your application and feel that on this occasion there are other applicants who more closely meet our specific requirements

Red jobless ?? Not sure what you meant to say here. We come over 7 years ago just when GFC hit. Didn't get a job in IT for 18 months!! Worked casual in Coles for 9 months. I had 15 years freelancing as analyst/programmer in UK without a break. Major companies like HP, Motorola, Capita. Got a job in vendor helpdesk support. Left after 2 1/2 years for a great contract job in Sydney on a good rate. Wife wouldn't move (I wanted to), so after a year living away from Melbourne I quit. That was Feb 14. About the worse decision of my career. Thought it would be easy, but couldn't get a job until July14. That lasted 3 months, was really messed about by a major company. In fact after a week I was told there was no money and not to come in the next Monday, but survived that. Short contract to transition support offshore, which was a success (too much so!) and the promised 'we will find something else after 3 months' at the interview didn't happen. So yes, not a great track record. But my wife works and I am of more mature age, so not so bothered as some might be. I would advise you to keep obvious signs of your age off the resume, only show last 10-15 years, don't show dates of education etc. I want to work, but can't. Back at Coles doing casual again! Last time I got about 20 hours a week, lucky to get 4 this time around. You appear to have useful skills, so not sure what is going on there. When I get an interview I have a very good success rate, so don't give up, it only takes one. To be honest, I wish I was in Frozen's shoes and going back (don't tell the wife!!)

Unfortunately it is just the way recruitment over here operates. UK might be the same now, but never was before I came here. No consideration for the applicants unless you are shortlisted. Sure there are lots of applicants for each job, but in this day and age there is no excuse for a lack of communication. If you don't hear straight away, unlikely you will. While expected from agencies, companies are doing it as well. I was told I would get a second interview after applying for a major company, heard nothing. Contacted the company a number of times (phone and email) with no reply. A couple of weeks later got the standard email that I was not successful (didn't even get the second interview). Other times heard nothing after a first interview. Awful really. Each time you invest time and effort, as you are expected to be 'passionate' about joining the company. In my experience what Frozen says is not the case. I have been applying since October and saw many comments that Jan / mid summer was a slow time and would pick up after the holidays. Others say end of financial year is slow as new year budgets have not been finalized. Also, lowering your sights may have the adverse effect. You will then get the 'over qualified' response (if you get any). I have applied for jobs that pay well below what I could get. But agencies/companies decide you will jump ship as soon as something better comes along. I wouldn't but they of course know better than you. I see the same jobs readvertised that I applied for. The agent tells me the person left - frustrating or what! Even then, I only apply for things I want and have the skills to do. Do I sound bitter - course I do. Really I am just frustrated with it all. They say you should network, using job boards means you have little chance. You have to write the correct CV and cover letter. In other words all style and no substance. If you don't have those skills, technical excellence will mean little. I would dump IT if I could think of something else to do and chuckle at the numerous reports of skills shortages. Anyway, must go, have to check the jobs again.

we have seen a couple of wombats around now my best photo, black cockatoos in trees just outside the house scariest photo - red bellied black snake on holiday

Just an update, I did get an interview and got the job!! As is typical, the actual job is not much like the advertised position, but I am happy to have got in there. On contract on a lower rate than I would have liked, but not the big issue here. Already had one scare where I was on 7 days notice due to funding wrangling, but have survived that one. The project is likely to be supported offshore in 3-6 months, so a very precarious position. I asked some questions at the interview that they probably didn't want to answer, so it is not a complete surprise. Bottom line is, I don't really have much choice or other options as this is one interview in 4 months of applying.

Hi Chortlepuss, based on what you and parleycross have said, I have created a resume without dates and shortened to 10 years. It will be interesting to see how it goes. Your other comments about what you are being told ring true for me (if I get a response!). I am looking at Brisbane opportunities as we are thinking of moving up there, so based on my brief skill profile I gave before, would you think it would be useful to contact the agency you mention? If you prefer, then send a pm. Of course I would mention you in case there is any referral bonus on offer (if you give me your details)

That was me in the UK. Once I got the interview I was usually in. Never kicked out, always left myself (mostly as a contractor, so not just doing short term permie jobs), never out of work. This is partly why I do think age is an issue for me (mid 50s). So far here, after probably hundreds of applications, about 5 interviews (not counting agency 'chats') and 2 jobs. Just applied for my perfect job (90% fit at least), that I have done for quite a few years on and off. Be interesting to see if I even get a reply. I have started calling back if I get no reply, but usually same response - others with a better skills fit.

Bibbs, you were pretty lucky, or a great interviewee. I have little doubt I can do a lot of the jobs on offer. Unfortunately as mentioned before I don't even get contacted. I have done heaps of jobs on the side with various languages and technologies which have ended up in a production environment. As Xenon4017 suggests, some of these old skills are still on my resume. Also I am thinking of what I could learn, maybe sharepoint / MS dynamics, both of which I have used. But these can be really difficult beyond the basics and again we get back to experience. ITIL is something I have looked at as a qualification as it is useful to have in a support role and most of it fairly straightforward.

I was wondering for those of you who have no problems, could you list the skills that get you the jobs and the industry. I did have significant ETL (Informatica toolset) Data Warehouse, pl/sql, some java, C but could not get a job when we came over (2008, GFC just kicked off). Those skills are not current (6 plus years old now) so I have stopped selling them (but they are on my resume) For me, I am now in application support / analysis and only have general skills such as SQL / Oracle. No programming languages that are current, but have no problem reading almost any code. The issue for me is having industry / application specific experience. A lot if jobs of this type seem to be in retail / energy / health care which I don't have. I do have Trillium data quality software as I did support for the vendor company. This skill got me my last position (agencies were ringing me !), but there are not many companies using it in Aus.

What you say is generally true, but you have to add a couple of things to your list: Experience! Not any experience, but most of the half dozen or so essentials listed. I was a developer in the UK for 20 years, never out of work (through a few downturns). I have heaps of experience. Jack of all trades, master of none maybe. Always seems to be a gotcha that I don't have. Age. Or lack of it! I am over 50. Another sad but true. Employers seem willing to take on a younger guy who is probably more likely to move on than me once he has the experience. Also, so say, they can mould younger people to fit the culture. I doubt anybody that is not new to the work force can be moulded.

>>Didn't your wife like Sydney davlap? I would much prefer living there than Melbourne. So would I ! We have a son, went off the rails, quit school in year 10. Quit tafe, quit a baker apprenticeship. Been in panel beater apprenticeship for 6 months. She will not leave him in case he goes off the rails again. He is 18, time to leave the nest, but its too easy for him. We came over for his benefit (so say), but has not worked out very well. Of course he blames us (parents) for all this, but who knows. So I guess there is guilt there. One reason I went to Sydney is because I sometimes feel they are the couple and I am an outsider in my own home. The work was getting back to a high technical level and I was considered the goto expert (SME). This is why not getting a new job quickly is not helping. Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread with personal stuff, probaly best to keep on topic.

In my experience, if you don't get a call within a day or two, you will probably not get anywhere. This applies particulary to agency job ads. Permanent can be slower, but often the same thing applies. Reasons why you are selected or not is the golden question, doubt there are any real answers. You might get the occasional 'dear John' email and I suspect this sometimes happens when you were considered, but not shortlisted, as opposed to just thrown in the bin. I came here 6 years ago with 20 years development experience (data warehouse / etl) in the UK and ended up at Coles in fruit and veg after 18 months. Then got a couple of IT jobs and have been back in IT (production support/analyst) for four years. Last had a Sydney contract but family still in Melb, so quit after a year, as wife wouldn't move and we were double renting. Big mistake, still trying after 3 months - nothing except 2 agency 'interviews'! Worth mentioning I am of more mature age (54) and there is no doubt this does not help. I have been told I am over experienced for a couple of jobs, but I got nowhere trying to carry on with the role I had in the UK. I guess at my age they might expect me to be in management, but I was mostly a contractor and happy to avoid office politics. For me, the future looks very bleak. But it only takes one person to see some value there. One agency told me that I appeared a perfect match, but he knew the manager for the client wanted someone in their 30's to fit in with the team (unofficially of course). I am thinking of the pro-active approach mentioned in this thread of looking via online methods such as linkedin, twitter etc. But my experience is varied and I do not have enough in depth specialities. I do have experience of data quality software called Trillium as I worked for the actual company in customer support. This was how I got the Sydney contract, but unfortunalety not many clients in Australia and no ads. So pretty fed up right now and trying to keep focussed on jobs I want, rather than anything and everything. As time goes by, will have to widen this. However, applying for jobs below your level probably has a negative impact as they assume you will jump ship when something else comes along. Anyway, hope it works out for you. It nearly did for me. I could be a lot warmer, richer and less bored in Sydney right now !