MARYROSE02

"Not the same in Australia any more?"...."People wanting to come home?" I don't know what that means about "not being the same any more" and I know very few people who want to go home, whether that means Poms or the "A to Z" of other nationalities who live here. Don't listen to a few malcontent. If you've been offered a good job here then take the opportunity, give it a couple of years* to settle in, and if it doesn't work out then go back. * I think that the Ten Pound Poms had to refund the cost of their passage if they went back within 2 years but most stayed and of the ones who did go back, half of them returned to Australia.

Maybe you can arrange a swap with one of the PIO members who is DESPERATE to do not one winter in the UK, but a lifetime of them! I actually envy people in WA living a life of "normality" even if it means excluding "The Walking Dead" from the Eastern States. If Mr McGowan sticks to his promise of opening up on Feb 6th(?) I might be over there myself.

The European Court of Human Rights is a foreign power and it's not "local" but "British" justice. I've got a feeling there was a time when Australians could appeal to the House of Lords. Voting in Australia is part of being a citizen. If you don't want to vote stay a permanent resident. I don't know how you can counter people voting for a particular government. Royal Commissions perhaps if the govt is corrupt. Wasn't there a Fitzgerald Report in QLD? Daniel Andrews is highly suspect but he's still popular with Victorians. Bottom line for me is that I don't feel more or less free whether I'm in Oz or UK. I buy The Australian every day, got it in front of me now, and I can't see any insidious propaganda in it and the same on Sky News. They broadcast Parliamentary Question Time and cover the various Commissions when they're sitting,

If you can afford it then go back to England and see how you get on. See if you like it. See if you are OK being away from your children. Are you an Aussie citizen? If so, you can come back if you want, no problem. If you are a permanent resident I guess you need to get a re-entry visa? I went back for twelve years. I didn't plan it to be that long. It was supposed to be an extended holiday to spend time with my parents after I lost my job in Sydney but then I got a job with Royal Mail in Southampton and "just" stayed. I disagree with you saying that Australia having "no culture, heritage or history". There's over two hundred years of European history here. If that's too "new" for you then that means that British history pre 1788 is also of no consequence. When was Newcastle established? 1804? Just before Trafalgar. If you crave the theatre, opera, ballet etc (not my cup of tea) there's plenty of that in Sydney and I'm sure Newcastle has its own arts scene. Then there is indigenous culture and history. But as I said, if you are unhappy here, and you have the means to go back to the UK, why not do it? I loved it in England but once my parents died I had no direct family there and two brothers here so I returned to Sydney and I've not been back to England since I left in 2008.

What's wrong with compulsory voting? And the Aussie system not being "first past few post" means that your vote is not wasted. I live in a federal Labor and State Greens seat neither of which I want to vote for so I can vote for other parties in the upper houses. Just because the media is owned by two or three companies does not mean that it's less free. And with access to the internet you get plenty of other views whether you favour the Guardian or the Daily Mail both with free access. Lefties HATE Murdoch without actually reading his papers or watching his news programmes and they would like to ban him. Is the judicial system any different in the UK? Does it not favour the rich? Definitely no freedom of assembly? Demonstrations are practically a daily occurrence. There's a mob in Canberra at the moment setting fire to Old Govt House and the Ratbag who started the fire has twice been released on bail and reoffended.

5th February, 2023 - possibly.

Yes, you are right, but does that Bill or Rights mean that Britons enjoy greater freedoms than Australians? In the course of our daily lives, I doubt many could discern a difference. Freedom of Assembly, Religion, Free Press, Trial by Jury, Habeas Corpus, Free Elections, etc, are common to both countries.

Regarding the beaches, and I'm talking about Sydney, every beach is different. Today I was at Bronte which has a surf beach plus a rock pool and an ocean swimming pool, a miniature railway, a park behind the beach, and cliffs at either end. Yesterday I was a Clovelly which is a narrow beach shaped like a "U" with a reef at the ocean end, concrete walkways on both sides with steps into the sea, and a small beach at the other end. It's got a pub overlooking the beach and, like Bronte, is on a coastal path linking Bondi with Maroubra and taking in several other beaches - Tamarama, Gordon's Bay, Coogee, as well as a huge cemetery with wonderful views unappreciated by the residents. The day before yesterday I went to Nielsen Park, which, unlike those other beaches I mentioned, is in Sydney Harbour with a bush park and a historic house, and views over to the north side of the harbour and as far as Manly. I don't consider any of those beaches "better" (or worse) than the English beaches from where I grew up - Lepe and Calshot in Hants if anyone knows them. They are unique too, with views over the Solent to the Isle of Wight. I could happily spend English summers there and Aussie summers in Sydney. I can imagine many Aussies scorning Lepe and Calshot with no surf or sand and lots of stones. Even though I know there are excellent surf beaches elsewhere in Britain, eg Newquay in Cornwall which reminded me of Aussie beaches complete with Aussie lifeguards. I can, and have lived in both countries including 12 years back in England between my two Aussie sojourns. I've got no direct family left in England so there's nothing there for me. You can't talk to history or pubs or countryside or if you do they don't talk back. Maybe that's a good thing but not for me.

The wonderful thing about both Australia and the UK is that whichever you prefer, you get to live in a constitutional monarchy!

Not a silly question because you have to persuade us that a republic is a better form of government than a constitutional monarchy. How can you do that without citing examples? Otherwise you are advocating a leap in the dark - change for the sake of change. Not that I care myself. I just dislike the likes of Peter Fitzsimmoms, Malcolm Turncoat and other like minded leftie wokes. Whatever that want I don't want.

Australia, like many other countries, is a constitutional monarchy. We had a referendum on the question of changing to a republic and the Australian people rejected it. I doubt if there is any surge in support for another referendum. I assumed that the only people who are in favour of the monarchy are "loyalist" Brits and older, conservative Aussies but that's not the case. Many immigrants come from countries with monarchies, eg Japan, Thailand, NZ, Canada, the Pacific Isands, the European monarchies. Come up with more valid reasons to change to a republic, perhaps with some examples of republics which are "better" than our "constitutional" monarchy. Would you choose to live in Germany, France or Italy over Belgium, The Netherlands or Spain because the republics have leaders who are more in touch with their people? More democratic? Better governed? Cheaper government?

When I'm writing the few Xmas cards I still send (actually 1st Day of Issue post cards from Oz Post) I change "Merry" to "Happy" so it does not clash with "and a Happy New Covid" (sick) (sic). The only people who are offended by "Christmas" are leftie wokes like Harry and Yoko (sic). People from other faiths have no such problems. I saw some Pommie backpackers interviewed wearing Santa hats with their cozzies on Bondi Beach who were all naturally devastated that they were unable to go home for Christmas.

February 5th, 2023? If the cases keep rocketing up in January, I can't see Mr McGowan opening up? Dome? That's a WA cafe chain isn't it? I don't think I've seen any in Sydney.

I Googled "Summernats." I still don't know what it means but I know it's in Canberra from 6 to 9th Jan? My niece's husband might be into that stuff. He used to be a Bathurst attendee before he got shackled. I think he took a case of beer for each day of the weekend. I must Google Eastern Creek. I've not been there. Do I pass it on the motorway to Penrith? I used to go there everyday for work but I've not been there now for 5 years. Australia's Wonderland. That's what I was thinking of!

I've been to the beach on Xmas Day at various times, 1979 with my bros and Aussie mates at Palm Beach ("Summer Bay!), Cottesloe in Perth 2017 just for a swim and coffee. I even went to Bondi Beach 4 or 5 years back to experience Xmas Day there. Not sure where all the backpackers (plenty of Irish and Scousers there) go now? Coogee? Bondi? Booze bans are clipping their wings. The best place I've been was Surfers Paradise with almost everything open so on your own is great.

Google kindly showed me photos from four years ago today when I was in Perth for the first time in 20 years. I stayed for 7 weeks then went back for another 6 weeks in May, 18. I was thinking of moving there. It was just the thought of "emigrating" again with all my family in Sydney. I'd feel the same way at the thought of going back to England again. Perth has everything that Sydney has with the bonus of being able to drive for pleasure instead of a seven-day rush hour which varies in intensity. Pubs, restaurants, cafes, beaches, supermarkets - 24x7 IGA supermarket - not sure if we have them in Sydney - 711 and servos with shops certainly, Bunnings, if that's your thing, not mine. Ultimately it's having family and friends closeby which is important to me. Everything else is just "things", inanimate.

I'd agree with you up to a point but I don't like icy roads and footpaths whereas I used to look forward to them. And of course the older you get the more scary a fall is.

As I just said to Marisa, I've always lived close to the sea, although I've rarely lived ON a beach. Surfers Paradise was the closest - five minutes walk. "Surry Hills with a beach" as I like to describe it.

I came for an adventure too, perhaps the only adventurous thing I've done in my life. I did have a day trip to Soweto a few years back, minibus from the hotel in Sandton. I've always lived close to the sea although I'm not a seafaring man.

I tried to define "Living the Dream" as living by the sea in a mostly warm part of Australia. Maybe I should start a thread asking for definitions.

I didn't choose Perth because it was the closest part of Australia to England. I was originally flying to Queensland but then I found a good deal 50 quid cheaper which involved a charter flight on Dan Air from Gatwick to Singapore and a Russian ship to Fremantle. Of course Perth IS closer to the UK than the "Eastern States" something the "Perth is the most isolated city in Australia" forget. If you like going "home" a 17 hour direct flight sounds (slightly) more pleasant than 24 hours on two flights. Your description of Perth in 1978 is different to mine. I checked my diary, 3rd November, "My first impressions of Perth are really good. I like it and I want to stay." I was scared when I went into my first Aussie pub, naively thinking that my Pommie accent would lead to a bashing. In Sydney a month later I wrote, "I was a bit afraid coming into Sydney as it's a big city and I've heard it's a bit rough." I was naive about a lot of things then. Mind you, Sydney IS a big city with a seven day, all day and half the night peak hour, unlike Perth, which was one of the things I liked when I back there. You can drive for pleasure unlike in Sydney where you just endure the roads. I know the western suburbs of Perth are the posher parts. I actually thought Perth's western suburbs was the ocean. With Sydney being on the east coast and Perth on the west I was thinking that what we call "Westies" you call "Easties." All very patronising I know. But as I said, I worked in Penrith which is 55 to 60km from me and I grew to like it. It's even got a "High St".

Let's say it's s subjective point of view. I arrived in Perth in November, 1978, and loved it. Had I got a job I'd have probably still been there. I couldn't get a job in Adelaide so I went to Sydney where I'd never intended to go but I got a job and here I've stayed (bar 12 years back in England and 8 months in Surfers). I like living in the inner city where I don't have to drive everywhere because I can walk or use public transport. That's why I liked Surfers and, if I was moving to Perth I'd choose a similar location close to the CBD. My hostel back in 78 was in Newcastle St. South Perth, Subiaco, anywhere where I can have all the facilities outside my door. I'd look for the same in Brisbane, Adelaide or Melbourne. I imagine Balga and Armadale are out in the far burbs. In Sydney that means "Westies" whom we stereotype as wearing flanno shirts over ACDC T shirts, Ugg boots and no teeth. As it happens I worked in Penrith the Westie capital and I took to it. Had I got that job 40 years ago I might have moved there. And now my brother lives in a similar area though on a nice new estate (no housos). I doubt you would like it though. 100s of similar homes, stretching out, 60 km from the CBD, not cheap mind, 1 million dollars. Needs must. I moved around Sydney and only ended up in trendy, yuppy, hipster Surry Hills because I wanted to be able to work to work.

Sounds to me as if Perth is a microcosm of Sydney. If I Googled Surry Hills / Redfern I doubt I'd ever have moved here especially in the 1980s before gentrification and the huge housing estates are all still here.

I was thinking about the possibility of them both joining the Aussie Army in 1970 if they hadn't been good at cricket, then their fellow diiggers from "the Eastern States" finding them "different". Come to think of it, the Aussie cricket team probably puts its players through the same kind of socialisation process as the Army so that they all end up with the same mindset. Perhaps the players are under more pressure to keep fit and off the grog during the games but then let their hair down in much the same way as "the good old days". I used to think those guys were fearsome, Lilliee, Thompson, Boon, (56 beets on a flight to London?!), McGrath, but in retirement they seem almost "sweet" .

The way you have described Applecross, or at least the "posh" part, could apply to anywhere in Australia. What does "very expensive" mean anyway? Very expensive compared to where? I Googled the median house price and I see it is just below 2 million dollars for a house and around 600,000 dollars for a unit. I looked up Surry Hills to compare it and the house prices are about the same but the unit price median is much higher in Surry HIlls. Whether you can compare the two suburbs is another matter. Surry HIlls is in the inner city whereas Applecross is a few kilometres south on the water. I don't know whether you could get a similar house in a similar location in Sydney for the price of one of those mansions in Applecross. From the way that you describe parts of Perth you sound somewhat "snobby" yourself - Windsor Hotel would soon be old hat? Scarborough full of miners? I seem to recall a similar comment about meeting fellow Pommies to watch soccer? The main point of a pub for me is that I go to it regularly and become a local. It sounds to me as if it would not matter where the pub was, you would hate it as you seem to hate almost every suburb in Perth. I was staying in South Perth and the local pub was the Windsor. In Applecross it was Raffles. In Northbridge it was on of the Irish pubs whose name escapes me. I came closest to becoming a local at the Windsor because I was in South Perth for over a month. The people I met there were the same mixture I have met everywhere I've been in Australia. I suppose Perth/WA people may have a "them and us" attitude to the rest of Australia aka "The Eastern States".But many Aussies identify with their state rather than the country as a whole. Which is more important? To beat England in The Ashes or to beat NSW or Queensland in State of Origin? I put that question to a few Queenslanders and they said "beating NSW.' When I went to the pub in Subiaco to watch Spurs it was no different to the pub I go to in Sydney to watch Spurs, with a mixture of Pommies and home-grown Aussies who for whatever reason support Spurs - they went to England and saw them, their dad is a Spurs fan. I have a soft spot for Perth because it was where I first arrived in Australia and I liked it but I ended up in Sydney. I don't think Australia is any more or less egalitarian than the UK. So far, Australia hasn't developed the "posh" accent of the UK, but perhaps in a few more generations the Aussie private schools will have developed a similar "posh" Aussie accent.