Guest carby Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hello all I'm new here! I have been offered employer sponsorship on 121, but haven't applied for the visa yet etc. So my migration isn't even confirmed, yet. However, I won't go if my two girls can't come with me, end of! I have two cats, very very scared and nervous. Taking them to the vet was SO traumatic for them (hyperventilating, sweaty paws etc) that I now have a home vet who says they are in her top three of pet clients who are difficult because of their fear! I have a few questions for anyone having been through immigration with cats: * Will they get ANYTHING to eat on a 24 hour flight? From LHR to MEL? I hate the idea that they will be starving with no access to food, esp if the flight is delayed in any way. I can only imagine this will add to their terror and stress. * I know everyone says that cats just settle down and sleep on the flight but mine really are very very scared indeed. Are there any options - anything whatsoever - for them not to fly cargo? A private cabin in the new Qantas planes?! I will do almost anything to have them with me so they know they haven't been abandoned. * Is it better to do it in one quick flight (24 hours) or break it up for them? I'm thinking that breaking it up will be much more stressful, but it would allow them to eat... * Does anyone have any experience of the Spotswood quarantine facility? I don't like that they can see other cats. They are mostly house cats, they have no experience of other people as I don't really have people over to mine, and they will be terrified if they can see other animals. * Did anyone else remind the captain to turn the cargo heating on for the animals?! A friend of mine's dog died because they forgot to heat the right section of the plane... * Do they travel with other animals in the hold? * What happens in SIN / HKG / other stopover? Are the staff good? Are the animals carried carefully and treated well? Sorry for all the questions. I can deal with everything about moving to Aus except the stress I will be putting my girls under, but leaving them behind isn't an option. I won't go if they're not safe and looked after. Vet says they can fly. One last question - I've thought about going to NZ and staying there for three months with the girls, then flying them to Melbourne to avoid quarantine. But it does mean putting them through another flight. However, if Spotswood is not a good facility, I will do it. Has anyone done this? Thanks to anyone who can share any experiences, especially if you have nervous, frightened and stressed out cats! Sorry for all the questions... Kiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hello and welcome Your cats sound very sheltered but if you ship them over they are going to have to face being in a hold with other animals potentially and possibly seeing other cats in pens during quarantine. In the hold they are in containers they generally can't see out of, this might help for them to settle. Ones with just air holes in the sides and top would probably help rather than mesh panels anywhere. I think its wooden crates anyway. They don't fly cargo. They go in a heated hold, around 18C and are checked during the flight I am told (at least this is what they say for our dog). Lights are dimmed for them. They can be fed and watered also before they are put on the plane and during stopovers/changes etc iirc. They have bowls in the containers so your cats could have food/biscuits to last the flight possibly. Not eating for 24 hours won't harm them really. In fact some animals just may not wish to eat while flying so probably don't. I'd not fret for a 24 hour period so long as they are fed beforehand. Longer and I'd be a bit concerned but many animals are shipped this distance with no long term ill effects, please remember this. There is no chance they will be allowed to travel outside the heated hold. Once sealed in their container (they can travel together or with a panel they can see each other through iirc) they will remain in it for the duration. It is not opened and they won't be let out till they arrive in Australia. I think you just have to trust that the people who deal with animal shipping take care of them and don't treat them badly. Don't quote me on it but I don't think you can have them stopover in Singapore or elsewhere if they are destined for Australia. Due to legalities and paperwork. They have to go straight through. I also think flying to NZ is extreme. Even though there is no quarantine it will be a huge cost and strain on your cats to go through another flight and so on. Plus they will have to fly for 30-36 hours to get to NZ, rather than 24 or so to Australia. I do think you are really worrying about a lot of things that are outside of your control. None of us relish having to ship out animals in a crate on a plane but its the only way to get them there. If you use a reputable animal shipping company they can help explain the entire process and will be able to answer all your questions and help put your mind at rest to some degree. However, reading your post I doubt that anything is going to totally help but it might go some way to making you feel a bit better I'd also remember that generally once in a container for a while even the most wild animal calms down and settles. I'd think your cats would be the same. In a car driving to the vets you are there with them, they can smell you and hear you. They probably pick up on your tension and react more from that. I know when we had a really wild cat, getting him into the cat box was the real problem and though he yelled for half an hour or so once in there, he did calm down enough to be moved a distance and didn't fuss overly. We placed a dark blanket over the cat basket and he calmed down. You can also buy some calming drops, herbal stuff to give to your cats in the weeks leading up to them flying to help their stress. I've only heard good things about all 3 quarantine centres in Australia and would use any of them based on the feedback. If your cats have to spend 30 days in quarantine I am sure they would cope. Perhaps contact the quarantine centre direct to discuss your concerns with them and see if they have a quieter area they could be kept in. Perhaps an end run or some such. And see if you could visit so as to ensure they are well and eating during quarantine. If you ship them out with you then I am sure its all workable and you just need to arrange visits to them each day. Its worth at least a phonecall or email. But if I was as worried as you and had cats that had never been outside, socialised or seen many other people this is the option I would be considering and trying to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carby Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 They can be fed and watered also before they are put on the plane and during stopovers/changes etc iirc. That's good to know; I was led to believe they weren't allowed any food at all before leaving, nor during the flight. I know not eating won't harm them, I'm more concerned that it will add to their stress if they are feeling hungry and have to wait at the airport, then on two long flights, then a trip to the quarantine facility! There is no chance they will be allowed to travel outside the heated hold. I thought that would be the case. Thanks. Don't quote me on it but I don't think you can have them stopover in Singapore or elsewhere if they are destined for Australia. Due to legalities and paperwork. They have to go straight through. I meant the stopover for fuel, but thinking about it I suppose they wouldn't even be taken off the plane. Will probably have to look into this. I'd certainly prefer for them to get there ASAP so that they're on a plane for as short a time as possible. I also think flying to NZ is extreme. Even though there is no quarantine it will be a huge cost and strain on your cats to go through another flight and so on. Plus they will have to fly for 30-36 hours to get to NZ, rather than 24 or so to Australia. Not worried about the cost at all, but yes, it would be a longer time to NZ; I hadn't realised it was quite so much further. I only fly LHR / LGW to Melbourne and back. I do hate the idea of another flight. I guess they'll have to suck it up and live with it! I do think you are really worrying about a lot of things that are outside of your control. None of us relish having to ship out animals in a crate on a plane but its the only way to get them there. If you use a reputable animal shipping company they can help explain the entire process and will be able to answer all your questions and help put your mind at rest to some degree. However, reading your post I doubt that anything is going to totally help but it might go some way to making you feel a bit better Oh, I know these things are outside of my control, I just think it helps to hear from other people who've also got very nervy / stressy cats! And I just wanted to add that I'm really not a neurotic owner at all, I promise(!), and I certainly don't pander to them! The problem is that they were house cats for two years, and even now don't like to go out. I almost never have people over as I tend to go out with friends, so they're very unsocialised. Plus, I work from home all day so they're so used to me being there. When I go away (I'm in Melbourne at the moment) they get very stressy and overgroom incessantly. I had to have the vet over last time because of it. I might have to do some socialising, I think, in the next few months! I've only heard good things about all 3 quarantine centres in Australia and would use any of them based on the feedback. If your cats have to spend 30 days in quarantine I am sure they would cope. Well that's good to know. I'm less concerned about quarantine than the flight, as I can see them and get updates on how they're doing. I've read up on Spotswood quite a bit, I just don't like that the only thing that separates the runs is a wire mesh as I can imagine lots of hacking, spitting and fighting! But hey, they'll have to live with it. I think my biggest fear really is that the stress of the flight would quite literally kill one of them; the other one I'm sure will settle eventually (although she'll probably hate me for a few weeks). I hate the idea of arriving in Aus to find out that one of them died through fear, and then thinking about how frightened she must have been if that was the case. I'm not sure I'd ever forgive myself. Thanks for the reply and the advice. Kiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was told our dog could be fed a few hours before flying (re the first bit of post) You sound to me like someone who loves her animals and that is no bad thing in my book I'll try to dig out the name of the herbal calming stuff for you to try on your cats. Also give them their crates well in advance so they get used to going in them or having them around before the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carby Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was told our dog could be fed a few hours before flying (re the first bit of post) I'll call Pet Air once I'm back in the UK to get an idea on this, but it's definitely reassuring to know they can have food before they go! You sound to me like someone who loves her animals and that is no bad thing in my book They're my substitute children! I'll try to dig out the name of the herbal calming stuff for you to try on your cats. Also give them their crates well in advance so they get used to going in them or having them around before the journey. Thank you, that's very kind. I've used Feliway before (when the really stressy one was overgrooming) but I can't say it made a huge difference; I had to change the behaviour of the other cat for it to stop. Another friend recommended 'Rescue Remedy' but I'll have a chat with my vet, too. Thanks again. Kiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I am just like you, for us the cats were part of the deal, if they didn't go we didn't go. There was no question of anything else, we took them for life. But I am really concerned for your cats based on what you have said, maybe they just are not up to it. This is so much more than a trip to the vets. :sad: I know a previous poster has said he has never seen a bad post about quarantine, but perhaps he just has not seen them. Our experience was awful (East Creek, Sydney). I honestly thought one of my cats would not survive, although that was partly due to one of the workers there casually telling me that "yeah, sometimes they give up eating and drinking and their organs pack up and they die" during my visit. Then next time I called she told me that my cats had stopped eating and told me that it was my visit that had stressed them out (thus making me feel even worse if that were possible). We sent a private vet in every two days for the last two weeks just to make sure that some action was taken if the cats took a turn for the worst. I honestly do not think the quarantine staff gave a damn. At least not the one who was assigned to be looking after our boys anyway. I also know that the majority of animals come through the experience unscathed and even ours were back to normal within about a week or so and soon started to pt thei weight they lost back on again. One of my cats is a british shorthair, a big 13lb chunky boy but he was a skinny wretch after quarantine. So it just would not be true to say that this process is a breeze for everyone (human and cat). I am sorry to be negative, perhaps I should keep quiet and I am thinking that even as I type. But this process is not easy on animals. I used to get on my high horse about anyone who chose to rehome their pet rather than take them along, after my experience, I will never do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juliemtaylor Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 well we shipped our 2 13 year old cats last year and sent them on ahead of us. We used Petairuk and they were fab! One of our cats was really timid and had a heart murmur but we were reassured and she had a crate with a mesh to seperate her from the other one but so they could still see eachother. After taking them to the Heathrow place they were examined and fit to fly, we got a call to say all was well and they were fed etc before their flights. Next they were loaded onto the flight and on to Singapore for a refuel. Upon arrival in Melbourne they got transferred to Spotswood quarantine. After a few hours we were able to call/email them to see how they were. I think I was more scared for them than they were. Lovely staff said they were fine and were happy to be in their pen with food and drink. The vets had checked them over and they were good. We were very fortunate to meet someone on PIO that had cats in Spotswood and they visited the centre and were able to take some pet toys, a scratching post and a bed to them. They share a bed you see and are given no toys to play with. I had to give permission by email for them to give them to the staff and they were not allowed to cuddle them. We arrived a moth after them and 2 days after we arrived we went to get them, they were very happy to see us! One had got a bit thinner (the nervous one) and the other must have scoffed the food! When we got them to our rental they were happy and relaxed with us as usual. We had great care and attention form Petair UK and the staff at Spotwood quarantine. They are now nearly 14 and happy in our permanent home now! Good Luck Julie x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carby Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks for your posts, both of you. I'm under no allusion that it will easy for them at all, but I might organise a visit to Spotswood whilst I'm here. I think if the staff are kind and loving and care for the animals, and if they clearly look after them well then I'll be happier. The flight I can obviously do nothing about. I will be flying here with them, and the four weeks in quarantine will be time for me to find somewhere to live. So I can visit them the day after we arrive and take their preferred food, toys, blankets etc. Julie, are you saying that if you visit them there you can't cuddle them? I'd be visiting twice a week and expecting to be in the pen with them, cuddling! If I can't actually cuddle them, I'm not sure that visiting would be in their best interests... Pumpkin, I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences. I have to be honest and say that I will probably get an independent vet to check them out once a week anyway, just to be safe! However, it does sound like your horrible experience was down to one (or two) member of staff rather than quarantine in general - but it's good to know about what you went through so I can prepare for that in advance. It's certainly spurred me on to making an appointment with Spotswood next week to check it out and see what the accommodation is like. My two girls are ten years old, so not too old to take at all, but I can't wait until they're no longer with me as that could be eight years! Their behaviour can be very unpredictable. I would usually say that the little one will be fine, but will sulk and be unhappy for a few weeks - and that the bigger one is the nervous one who will freak out and sweat and panic. However, when they have their boosters each year, it's the little one who gets a temperature, is utterly miserable and depressed for a few days and the bigger one who bounces back. I've never had to put them in this sort of situation before so their reactions might not be what I expect. Kiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest juliemtaylor Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi you can cuddle them as you will be on their paperwork as the owners (or mum and dad) but we had others who visited the centre with our permission to drop stuff off. Hope it all helped as I am sure they will be fine and you will be so glad you brought them! Julie x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonluci Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Times; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } Hi Carby, Coming into this thread a bit late but I couldn't not say anything! My cat Murphy is simply the biggest sook in the world. Nervous, easily spooked, freaked out by absolutely everything. Trips to the vet: a total nightmare. I really can’t stress enough about how scared of everything he is!! Noise, people, and other animals – everything except my partner and myself! Completely indoor cat who’d been raised in a very quiet, calm sheltered environment. Don’t have much time to write this so excuse my laziness but I’m going to copy and paste a response I made to another nervous cat thread! My experience was as follows……………. I really fretted about bringing him over as I didn’t think he could cope but of course there really wasn't a choice - he is part of our family and there was no way I was leaving him behind. So when the time came for the flight I was hysterical and anxious - seeing his little terrified face at Heathrow as we dropped him off was almost too much to bear! He flew into Sydney and was picked up by quarantine and I called Eastern Creek as soon as I could. He was allocated the loveliest attendant imaginable who instantly put my mind at ease. She said he was scared but fine, and would spend extra time with him each day as he was so nervous. She also made the point that if she’d known beforehand that he was a nervous cat she would’ve made sure he was in a quieter section of the cattery. (Just something to consider when you get to the planning/booking stage) He wouldn't eat for the first few days so she even bought tinned food out of her own money for him before I could get food sent to him! (Didn’t realise you could send stuff until I spoke to her) She was such a godsend, always had time for a chat and even used to sing to him to try and settle him in! (not sure if that would've done much though lol!) I rang every few days to see how he was and although he was still spooked (so much so she couldn’t even get him out of the kennel to weigh him!) she slowly managed to build up his confidence with lots of love and patience. When the day finally came for us to pick him up it was one of the happiest monents of my life! (yes I know it's sad but I really love that cat! lol) Rachael our attendant bought him out and as soon as he saw us he was rolling in his crate and purring frantically! Rachael actually cried saying goodbye to him!!!! I cannot speak more highly of the way she cared for my cat! I'd thought he might be a bit sketchy for a while but as soon as we let him out at home he was completely fine, strutted around his new home loving every minute! Many months down the line now and he is really happy in his new aussie life! He's more affectionate than ever and perhaps a little braver for all he's been through! Long story short - Your cat's are going to be fine. Yes it is stressful on them, but it’s only a blip on the radar in the bigger picture. If my incredibly timid nervous little man can make it than so will yours! It was the best decision we made. Good luck and try not too fret too much (easier said than done I know!) Let us know how you get on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carby Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hi LL Thank you so much for your post, that's very helpful and reassuring. My cats are my absolute world - they mean more to me than anything, and I will do anything to make the stress easier on them. I'm probably worrying more than I need to, and at least they'll have each other. I think I said above that my real fear is that one of them will die from stress, literally, and I will never forgive myself for knowing that she was so utterly frightened that she died! Probably a touch dramatic, but I'm not sure how they're going to react. Thanks again for taking the time to post. Kiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonluci Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hi Kiki, No problems. It really was a very difficult time for me - From the day we made the decision I couldn't think of much else! It was always weighing on the back of my mind. And yes, the 'he's going to die from the stress' fear was my worst! The thought of him all on his own on a plane and dying frightened and scared caused me many sleepless nights! (sounds so much more melodramatic when I write it down! lol) Not too mention the million other worst case scenarios that played through my mind! The worst bit on me personally was the 24 odd hours while he was on the flight. That was difficult, but time doesn't stop just because your fretting and soon enough he was there. Once I'd touched base with the kennels I started to relax (if relax is the right word). I think it's great that your cats have each other. It's nice to know I'm not the only crazy lady out there who loves her cat so bloody much! Your cats are lucky to have you. Good luck with the move. If you have any questions/concerns about anything feel free to PM me. Luci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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